maybe this is a stupid question, but can Thought-Knot Seer find a place in MUD?
I own pretty much everything in MUD so I thought about giving it a try. How do you feel the Eldrazi Matchup?
It's not a stupid question at all. The card is good at legacy, but I believe it is not that strong enough outside the eldrazi shell. It is too small against goyfs and usually too slow as a lockpiece. You should run it only if your strategy is going stompy. I tested it in a tournament and in a few online games, and it felt underrated on its own.Originally Posted by owerbart
Best case scenario: I played it against an opponent turn-2 stoneforge mystic, taking away his battterskull.
Worst case scenario: I played it against burn, who showed 2 lands in hand. I died soon after.
Last edited by Silverflame; 04-13-2016 at 09:54 PM.
Good evening gents!
I went to the LGS last night and ran into Titan Post. It was a long match, game one went on for about a half hour. In both games, he generated more mana than I did, held off the aggro plan (by gaining an amazing amount of life, for the most part), and he deployed Ulamog, The Ceaseless Hunger, which I have no way to remove. The real issue is his mana. The Cloudposts and Glimmerposts get bonuses off what is under my control, as well as his. And while I also had a lot of mana to work with, his end-game was just more powerful.
How do you folks approach this match-up?
I guess this is one of these matchups where your omission of Blightsteel comes to haunt you....
Furthermore, Staff of domination is very powerful with all that mana.
But his endgame is better anyway, so you need to tackle him before he reaches high mana counts. Be careful with helping him get there with your own posts!
I have some experience in this matchup. Chalice on 1 is an important card to stick early, to keep them off of cantrips, crop rotation and candelabra. Having revoker for candelabra post board is also useful.
Locus lands go down in value here, because they can generally do more broken things than you can with the mana. Your best hands are going to be sol lands and monolith into a fast clock. Wasteland is a helpful followup to constrain them a bit.
I played MUD for Thursday Night Legacy again last night.
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Sundering Titan
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Trinisphere
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Metalworker
4 Grim Monolith
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Platinum Emperion
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Staff of Domination
1 Blightsteel Colossus
3 Lightning Greaves
4 Wasteland
2 Cavern of Souls
SB: 1 Platinum Angel
SB: 3 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Duplicant
SB: 1 Orbs of Warding
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 1 Spine of Ish Sah
SB: 3 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 1 Contagion Engine
Round 1: Matt – Infect
Game 1: I keep a hand with lots of prison pieces and acceleration, but no threats. He whittles away with Blighted Agent and Inkmoth Nexus, while I keep topdecking lands. Eventually, I draw Blightsteel Colossus with Lightning Greaves and Metalworker already on the board, but I fall a few mana short of being able to cast it. (0-1)
Game 2: My early CotV gets FoW’d and everything else I do is irrelevant. (0-2)
(0-1-0)
Round 2: Blake – 12-Post
Game 1: My prison pieces come down a bit later than I need them, cross-board Cloudpost shenanigans occur, Lightning Greaves prevent me from executing the Staff of Domination combo, and he assembles all three eldrazi titans to close out the game. (0-1)
Game 2: I lock him out of setting up with CotV and Wasteland, then drop a Wurmcoil Engine. He scoops after the first swing. (1-1)
Game 3: I draw an opening hand with triple Wasteland and a healthy assortment of prison pieces. He’s unable to get off the ground before Lodestone Golem does the distance. (2-1)
(1-1-0)
Round 3: Matt – Elves
Game 1: Lodestone Golem and Steel Hellkite make short work of him. (1-0)
Game 2: Trinisphere and Double Lodestone Golem also make short work of him. (2-0)
(2-1-0)
Round 4: Kurtis – Elves
I get paired down for the final round and since 3-1 is the prize cut-off, Kurtis agrees to give me the win. We still play out the match for kicks.
Game 1: Like the first game of the night, I keep a hand with only prison pieces and acceleration. Fortunately, I topdeck Ugin, the Spirit Dragon after a few turns and nuke his board, resulting in a concession. (1-0)
Game 2: I land a few prison pieces to slow him down, but I just can’t stop him from casting NO into Craterhoof Behemoth and smashing my face in. (1-1)
Game 3: The entire game, my available mana is always about a turn behind where I need it to be. By the time Craterhoof Behemoth and friends finish me off, I’ve got a summoning sick Kuldotha Forgemaster on the board and a Contagion Engine ready to deployed next turn. (1-2)
(2-2-0) (Officially 3-1-0)
Comments:
-Big thanks to Kurtis for letting me get into the prizes.
-Changes from the previous list are -2 Warping Wail sideboard, +1 Ratchet Bomb sideboard, +1 Contagion Engine sideboard. As much as I like the functionality Warping Wail offers, I just don’t feel comfortable with my ability to properly utilize it.
-I made more mistakes than I care to admit.
anyone playing legends MUD with Nahiri and Emrakul?
I'm not playing Nahiri or Emrakul, but I am playing the following list:
(22 LANDS)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Karakas
3 Vesuva
(7 CREATURES)
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Wurmcoil Engine
(31 OTHER SPELLS)
4 Basalt Monolith
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Coercive Portal
4 Grim Monolith
3 Karn Liberated
1 Staff of Nin
3 Thran Dynamo
3 Trinisphere
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Voltaic Key
SIDEBOARD
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Tsabo's Web
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinisphere
2 Ensnaring Bridge
My meta is pretty damned fair for the most part, which is why I have so many Ulamogs and Wurmcoils in the main. I'm still not sure about the numbers of anything or the contents of the sideboard, but I'm really liking it so far. Wurmcoils put in a ton of work against Delver, Shardless, and Eldrazi, so I think they're going to stay for now. Death and Taxes is a breeze with this list compared to traditional MUD, IMO.
My latest Legend MUD list that has been doing well against everything in online testing except for Lands:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Karakas
3 Vesuva
2 Crystal Vein
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Karn Liberated
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
2 Basalt Monolith
4 Grim Monolith
2 Thran Dynamo
4 Voltaic Key
SB:
4 Coercive Portal
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Voltaic Key was the "key" that made this deck even better. It doesn't matter that it sucks with Chalice @ 1 sometimes - the ability to explode your mana production with Monoliths and Dynamos is just too good and leads to many free wins early on.
Thought-Knot Seer MD might be better than Coercive Portal MD in most matchups. It just bridges the gap between early game disruption like Chalice and Trinisphere and the late-game bombs.
Kozilek is BETTER than Ulamog in most situations. You want 3 Kozilek and only 2 Ulamog, imho.
If we don't worry about spot removal by playing TKS MD, it might be better to just play Wurmcoil Engine MD instead of Karn and put Karn in the SB. I don't know yet.
Side in and side out Vs miracle, ant, eldrazi, infect, grixis delver, rug, elfi, team America, death and taxes? Thanks
vs. Miracles:
-4 Thought-Knot Seer
+4 Coercive Portal
vs. ANT:
no changes
vs. Eldrazi:
-4 Chalice of the Void
-2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
-1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
+4 Ensnaring Bridge
+3 Wurmcoil Engine
vs. Infect:
no changes - may want bridges, i don't know
vs. Grixis Delver:
-3 Karn Liberated
+3 Wurmcoil Engine
vs. RUG Delver:
-3 Karn Liberated
+3 Wurmcoii Engine
vs. Elves:
-2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
-2 Voltaic Key
-3 Karn Liberated
+4 Ensnaring Bridge
+3 Wurmcoil Engine
vs. Team America:
haven't tested this yet
vs. Death'n'Taxes:
-4 Thought-Knot Seer
+4 Coercive Portal
Do you prefer legend mud or big eldrazi list?
Haven't even tested big eldrazi list yet. I just logged into MTGThesource today after weeks of not checking it, so I didn't even see that thread until now. I will be testing that list and comparing it to Legend MUD. I just noticed that they were similar in what they were trying to do.
My Voltaic Key propaganda is working.
Yeah, I play three TKS MD and it is house. Basically LSG 5-7. Though, I still like two Portals in my SB and one Staff of Nin in the MD against the grindy matchups
Hey there,
So I'm new to this deck and have a couple questions.
First, what are the current types of MUD decks? The primer is outdated and people currently are discussing types I've never heard of like Legend MUD and Big Eldrazi MUD.
Second, what do y'all think about Candelabra of Tawnos in this deck? I mention this because I've noticed the deck runs 10-12 posts in the current version alongside the 8 Sol lands.
Do you mind posting your current list? I'm going to have to try it out, along with MGB's, to see what's up. I really like my list for my meta, but I think I'm going to start going to another LGS, and I doubt it will be as fair as mine.
So basically I think the **METALWORKER**thread is getting diluted with these other decks, but that conversation has been had before. The lists you are referencing are more along the lines of a traditional 12post list, just colorless. They play mana rocks instead of card search or crop rotation or candelabra. I look at them more or less as budget 12post lists myself. Personally I think if your list isn't running Metalworker, the card whose name is in the title of the forum, you need a new forum, probably 12 post.
METALWORKER mud doesn't need candelabra, it has Metalworker, you know, the namesake card of this forum... it also typically runs Chalice of the Void which is not fantastic with Candelabra.
It's completely unfair to write off these other versions of MUD as "budget cloudpost". They're definitely more MUD decks than 12post decks, because they are still trying to disrupt with 4 Chalice and 4 Trinisphere. That's one of the big pluses that any MUD list has over 12 post - they can play disruption that 12post cannot.
I own playsets of Metalworkers but choose to play the mana rock version of MUD instead because mana rocks are less fragile than Metalworker. There are positives and negatives to both approaches and it's perfectly fair to have this discussion in this thread. But Legend MUD and its ilk are most definitely *not* budget versions of anything or strictly inferior to either traditional MUD or 12post decks. I mean, Legend MUD costs more to put together than traditional MUD anyway.
Take the budget comment with a grain of salt, we are talking about removing blue dual lands and candelabra of tawnos, thats well over $1,000 off the cost of the deck. I don't use budget as a pejorative, but youre talking about probably $1,500 off the top. I just think that the closest analogue to what your lists are doing is a 12 post list. I also don't think it's inferior, to either Metalworker MUD or the 12post lists that run blue, but Chalice and Trinisphere aren't what make it MUD, and even if we want to debate just how many artifacts it takes to be on MUD, the fact remains that Metalworker is listed in the title of the forum... so I feel like the decks that should be here are decks that, ya know, play Metalworker.
Look at your Legendary MUD list...I count not one artifact wincon in the main, and I don't think that the presence of mana rocks makes you a MUD deck. We aren't MUD because we play mana rocks, we are MUD because we use artifacts to kill people. Really man, look over the Turbo Eldrazi thread and I think you'll agree that what you have there is a Turbo Eldrazi list that uses different disruption and ramp enablers.
@LIAEF
If you want to play with Candles, considering: http://www.hareruyamtg.com/jp/k/kD06858S/
It's very good and resilient.
Lands (21)
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Darksteel Citadel
Mana (11)
4 Metalworker
4 Grim Monolith
3 Mindstone
Threats (17)
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Blightsteel Colossus
Locks (6)
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
Utility (5)
3 Lightning Greaves
1 Staff of Nin
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
Sideboard:
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
2 Coercive Portal
2 Trinisphere
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Ratchet Bombs
The SB is dependent on the meta. I am playing with Mind Stone over Voltaic Key since I am no longer playing Than Dynamo.
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