[Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

[malfie13]

Can't believe 3 chalice is correct (unless moon stompy has taken over completely???)
I bet 4th chalice must be better than your second thorne, given that a third of your decks are non-lands non-creatures.

Im currently on 3 chalices. Redundant chalices are no good, and redundant thorns are 3 balls. Ive had numerous players tell me they would rather play vs a chalice than being taxed outta existwnce by thorn plus lodestone, which is basically scoop territory. Also thorns dont stop casting or activating metalworkers, so i rarely have issues casting things. When i 22nd the 800 person eternal weekend i was on 4 thorns in the 75. Im on three now only bc storm is already a bye on the play. We dont really need extra help

[malfie13]

Hi,

I also join you about the legendary rule, but maybe 2 of is still fine ? Worst case it allows you to untap the previous traxos.
Interesting list, I am quite doubtful about the kuldotha in just 2 exemplars. I would personally cut the sundering titan for a third kuldotha.
About the MD sorcerous, what do you think of switching spine & 1 staff ?

But I really like the fact you are playing a MUD list a bit different than usual.
We have previously debated about G. Orrery, I guess it's very good against deck with basically blue cards but I guess you don't play it/side out against D&T - burn - lands - turbo depths - nic fit etc ?
On another topic, why is 1 Nevinyrral's Disk here ? against what kind of decks do you side it in ?

Yeah, orrery is no bueno vs very specific decks. Vs anyone who can whittle us down or who we dump hand vs it is great. Nevs disc is for btb in miracles, elves and eldrazi. End cap. I am going to try either a 1 and 1 split with ratchet bomb or just two ratchet bombs, ultimately tho.

[malfie13]

Im going to be playing a local legacy event this weekend and ill run my mud build through its paces. I did alter it a bit from the one i posted the other day due to testing. I just dunno if i like traxos, and feel like sundering titan may be bettet in the sb. I cant really decide about that one.

[Jorruk]

Im going to be playing a local legacy event this weekend and ill run my mud build through its paces. I did alter it a bit from the one i posted the other day due to testing. I just dunno if i like traxos, and feel like sundering titan may be bettet in the sb. I cant really decide about that one.

I really join you on this point, titan is extraordinary good if played early against "common" decks to beat : grixis delver & czech pile. On the other hand it makes almost nothing to lots of other decks (most popular in my mind : eldrazi, lands (GR and turbo), ANT, elves, D&T. That is why I decided to put it back in the SB.
Thank you for your light about the specific cards :)
I will also go to a local legacy event in two weeks, still can't decide if I am going with MUD or mono red stompy (or dragonless dragon stompy)

[malfie13]

More gobliny goblin stompy lately.

I havent really settled on weatherlight. Has anyone tested with it yet to have some actual results about worth speaking? I cant tell if its solid or not, although karn constructs and forgemaster can both crew it.

[Airwave]

I have the same opinion - Wasteland is not must have in the deck. I am in no way expert in MUD, however I think 4x Wasteland are less helpful in the deck than a bunch of sol lands with spheres, thorns, and chalices. And by playing more one-mana lands we just deprive ourselves from a better chance of putting a threat in play on the first turn.

I also think that land destruction strategy perhaps is better in STAXX-like decks as it fits there more organically.

This got me thinking, why play Wasteland? Is it still the best option for the deck? With all the Deathrite Shaman's out there it does lose some of its power. But then, why play Trinisphere and Lodestone Golem, since they'll lose power too without Wasteland. So I decided to build a deck without the mana hate, this is the list:


4 Metalworker
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster

1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Platinum Angel
1 Steel Hellkite
4 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Moltensteel Dragon

3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Batterskull
2 Lightning Greaves

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sorcerous Spyglass

4 Grim Monolith

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
1 Inventors' Fair


Sideboard

2 Faerie Macabre
1 Spellskite
1 Karakas
1 Duplicant
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Walking Ballista
2 Warping Wail
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Ethersworn Canonist



I played in the Dutch open series (85 participants) and went 3-3 with this list. Won from Turbo Depths, Burn and Reanimator lost to another Turbo Depths, 4 color control and... Steel stompy

The deck was fun to play, as always. Sorcerous Spyglass seemed like a good choice, I always had significant targets. Platinum Angel won the game against both Turbo and Burn (fetched through Forgemaster). The new Karn should replace the Moltensteel Dragon's I think, I still need to acquire these.

[Jorruk]

The deck was fun to play, as always. Sorcerous Spyglass seemed like a good choice, I always had significant targets. Platinum Angel won the game against both Turbo and Burn (fetched through Forgemaster). The new Karn should replace the Moltensteel Dragon's I think, I still need to acquire these.

Can I ask you why did you choose angel over emperion ? In the vast majority of cases I prefer emperion : can attack through several creatures, bigger body so less sensitive to burn spells etc.
The only case where I find angel better is against infect.
I don't see any other upside (yes, it is flying but with a meta filled with delver, flicker, strix or marit I don't really see it as an advantage)

[BlackHawkX9]

Can I ask you why did you choose angel over emperion ? In the vast majority of cases I prefer emperion : can attack through several creatures, bigger body so less sensitive to burn spells etc.
The only case where I find angel better is against infect.
I don't see any other upside (yes, it is flying but with a meta filled with delver, flicker, strix or marit I don't really see it as an advantage)

I'm gonna start this by saying, I run emperion over the angel, all day, every day.

Angel is only better vs infect, fringe strategies that use "I win cards" like lab maniac, or being decked by things like grindstone.

I have 2 infect players in my local meta, and I still run emperion, because he is just that much better against everything else.

[Jorruk]

Ok, that is what I was thinking ^^
I forgot about lab maniac, but it has been a while since I have seen one ...

[BlackHawkX9]

Ok, that is what I was thinking ^^
I forgot about lab maniac, but it has been a while since I have seen one ...

Ya, the fringe strategies were angel is better are just plain not present in the current meta. Emperion is strictly better vs the decks that are active currently.

[Airwave]

Can I ask you why did you choose angel over emperion ? In the vast majority of cases I prefer emperion : can attack through several creatures, bigger body so less sensitive to burn spells etc.
The only case where I find angel better is against infect.
I don't see any other upside (yes, it is flying but with a meta filled with delver, flicker, strix or marit I don't really see it as an advantage)

Normally I play Emperion as well, but because I see a lot of infect decks running around I chose the Angel instead. The other advantages are that it's 7 mana against 8 mana and that you can still gain life with Wurmcoils and Batterskull.

[Jorruk]

Normally I play Emperion as well, but because I see a lot of infect decks running around I chose the Angel instead. The other advantages are that it's 7 mana against 8 mana and that you can still gain life with Wurmcoils and Batterskull.

Ok, I see it was a meta choice.
The "only" relevant cases where I find the life gain really important is against lands, burn and eldrazi.
Out of the three I guess I would still prefer emperion. Post side lands is full of hate against artifacts, burn will just burn the angel, and eldrazi have access to dismember assuming they have not side it out.
Thanks for your answer !

[Runninonwater]

Infernal Judgment
B
Instant
Exile target colorless creature. You gain life equal to its power.

Damn, luckily its a 1 mana, thinking about Chalice, but still! this can hurt.

What do you guys think about this card?

[Noctalor]

Infernal Judgment
B
Instant
Exile target colorless creature. You gain life equal to its power.

Damn, luckily its a 1 mana, thinking about Chalice, but still! this can hurt.

What do you guys think about this card?

unless im missing something, no one is going to play it, way too narrow.

[Jorruk]

Infernal Judgment
B
Instant
Exile target colorless creature. You gain life equal to its power.

Damn, luckily its a 1 mana, thinking about Chalice, but still! this can hurt.

What do you guys think about this card?

Same as Noctalor, I guess it is more playable in modern (eldrazi - tron/aggro, affinity, hollow-one) but in Legacy I would never play this if I was playing a black deck. You only touch Eldrazi - aggro/big E and MUD (and yeah steel stompy), decks that are not played very much.

[Airwave]

Same as Noctalor, I guess it is more playable in modern (eldrazi - tron/aggro, affinity, hollow-one) but in Legacy I would never play this if I was playing a black deck. You only touch Eldrazi - aggro/big E and MUD (and yeah steel stompy), decks that are not played very much.

I guess it's somewhat narrow but it does hit both Eldrazi and artifacts. People might play Null rod sooner, lucky it's only one mana indeed.

Bothers me though, that they keep printing stuff that annoys us like Damping Sphere as well. Could we please see a Cavern of Souls for artifacts, an cheap artifact that kills cantrips, an artifact wrath-of-god, anyway... maybe I'm too greedy

[Jorruk]

I guess it's somewhat narrow but it does hit both Eldrazi and artifacts. People might play Null rod sooner, lucky it's only one mana indeed.

Bothers me though, that they keep printing stuff that annoys us like Damping Sphere as well. Could we please see a Cavern of Souls for artifacts, an cheap artifact that kills cantrips, an artifact wrath-of-god, anyway... maybe I'm too greedy

We already have this kind of spells : chalice, all is dust, oblivion stone. But yeah I agree with you :p
A friend tested damping sphere, and trust me most decks don't like it either becauses they can't play multiple spells per turn. Think of the numerous decks that play BS + something or ponder + something.
About Null rod, I guess it will be more problematic if steel stompy decks become more popular. For now the only decks impacted with it are MUD (by far), Steel Sompy, aether vial decks, and stone blade. So not a big deal I guess. People are more focused on Grixis delver / Czech pile / turbo depths.

[lukatron2]

Im currently on 3 chalices. Redundant chalices are no good, and redundant thorns are 3 balls. Ive had numerous players tell me they would rather play vs a chalice than being taxed outta existwnce by thorn plus lodestone, which is basically scoop territory. Also thorns dont stop casting or activating metalworkers, so i rarely have issues casting things. When i 22nd the 800 person eternal weekend i was on 4 thorns in the 75. Im on three now only bc storm is already a bye on the play. We dont really need extra help

When was that and is there a link to your decklist as well as the top 8 or more? Very curious! Always struggling to find the right balance of cards in MUD.

[Jorruk]

As I don't play (or constructed at least) on MTGO I can't test as much as I would like. So I'm also struggling with numbers of cards, that's why I have recently made a spreadsheet on statistics to get X cards in a deck containing Y cards. Or Z exemplars etc etc.
I have also compared the chances with a 61 cards deck, and basically it doesn't change anything (to sum up about 1% of chances per cards)
You can check it here

[Jorruk]

https://www.channelfireball.com/vide...nnel-mengucci/

The deck was played by Mengucci on CFB. The list is a bit spicy IMO. But at least MUD is interesting some people