Originally Posted by Ttvetjanu
Hi Ttvetjanu, could you post your complete list please?
Thanks a lot very interested to see what you've got.
Wait.. Isnt godo mud better against swords to plowshares because you easily drop batterskulls all over the place???
I run 3 magus of the moon in it, another soft lock for the deck wich can be equipped if necessary. Also have 3 bonfire of the damned but they may be too much next too 2 karns altough i once used one for a massive finish :)
This. Exactly this. Godo is WAY less vulnerable to Swords to Plowshares than the typical lists, which is why I've been favoring it as of late.
Godo gets broken more than stoneforge after it gets resolved. But still it feels like the list is to dependant to have Godo resolve at all. It seems like this deck is a sitting duck waiting to get something happening. until then, eveything gets killed by sotp, Bolt?? Still havent tried it yet, but revoker. magus. etched with a sword and golem. chalice. Karn seem to be a strong shell. Actually, what are results of the Godo lists?
Still i think a forgemaster/welder list is more flexible.... and more clunky if having bad luck.
21 Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of souls
4 City of traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Rishadan Port
3 Darksteel Citadel
19 Threats
4 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Batterskull
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Phyerxian Metamorph
3 Steel Hellkite
2 Staff of Nin
2 Karn Liberated
20 Mana
4 Metalworker
4 Grim Monolith
3 Thran Dynamo
2 Voltaic Key
4 Chalice of the void
2 Mox Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
SB:
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Defense Grid
3 Trinisphere
2 Thorn of amethyst (Storm is very rampant/at least 1 high tide every tournament)
2 Karn Liberated
2 Crucible of Worlds (not 100% on this yet, in theory very good vs loam/rug/mirror but might be too slow)
Hi Ttvetjanu,
I really like your list. I might give it a try myself. Adding the metamorphs to copie lodestones/wurmcoil is cool.
If you dont mind i'd like to ask you some questions about certain cards, its not criticism just want to know why you chose them.
Darksteel Citadel
Why not use Buried ruins / mishra factory. If you are scared about land destruction these 3 arent going to save you.
2 mox diamond - 1 lotus pedal
your list doesnt have that much high mana costs threats. I currently run 4 wurmcoil - hellkite , 2 karns - 2 platinum emperion. Normally i have more then enough mana and use even less mana acceleration : 3 metalworkers - 4 grim's - 4 thran's - 3 voltaic.
Its not critisism just wondering about your thoughts behind the cards.
Thanks alot for posting your list.
The primary reason to run Godo and Batterskull in the first place is to reduce the curve from 4x 6 mana to 2x 5 mana and 2x 6 mana, and to Jace/STP proof your threats. It was a replacement for Wurmcoil Engine in the first place. The second and third reason are that you can have a wasteland-proof mana-base with basics, and the fact that you get to run a couple of terrific red sideboard cards. Having 5 mana with a Batterskull in your hand is much better than sitting on 5 mana with a Wurmcoil in hand.
I've been thinking about the different lands, I like having a out against active crucible +wasteland but I have to admit that in a longer game buried ruin would also be good. I might try one. Factory I feel is not good enough (basically only decent against jace).
The 0 manacost acceleration is only for early turns, a turn one metalworker without monolith is very strong. Also enables turn 1 monolith/chalice without sol lands.
This is my godo build:
Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Great Furnace
4 Mountain
Disruption
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Magus of the Moon
Hitters
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Batterskull
Combo package
4 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
Removal
3 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Karn Liberated
Acceleration
4 Grim Monolith
3 Thran Dynamo
3 Metalworker
A sitting duck? No seriously... I play a lot aggro with 4 lodestone 3 wurms and 4 batterskull. Dont call my baby a sitting duck.
I also name human always with cavern of souls: for godo and magus ot moon. This and normal chalice effects is killing for many greedy decks.
I'd cut a bonfire and SoLaS for 2 Phyrexian Metamorph. This way you got 6 cards for your removal package, and metamorph is just the king of versatility for this deck.
-Steve
How come it needs to be a holiday to bang noobslayer's sister?
At Alex:
You're list looks solid. i am wondering just a few things.
Don't you miss Wasteland to backup the magus plan against Maze of ith?
How does the Bonfires works out for you. On what occasions where they helpfull (vs All is Dust ie)?
What are the weak spots of the list?
What about Etched champion and phyrexian revoker instead of 3 wurms and 2 skulls? Those provide utility and lower mana curve.
Well i just think is better and a more fun deck to play. First i made forgemaster but i think this is better thanks to cavern of souls. but if used competively i think id drop the bonfires and solas. F and i is much better sword overall.
Aggro isnt the biggest problem of mud decks- altough a sweeper like bonfire that can also be a kill spell is nice. 10 mana fireball isnt that strange with metalworker out right? All is dust is expensive, karn is seven mana and a bit more versatile in what he can destroy.
Bso maybe adding another karn is enough to get rid of creatures. Or maze of ith.
Metamorph is a great card, very good against unfair fatties. Plus adding consistency mana wise. + with 5 lifegain creatures paying 2 life isnt so bad.
Wasteland.. Well it just dont fit in the mana base..
@Alex
Speaking of greedy decks, how does your manabase work? You're running 20 lands with 4 of them being City of Traitors, and you are running Monolith with no Keys. Do you ever find yourself having problems getting enough mana? How often do you have to mulligan because of mana sources?
I'm not trying to throw you under the bus, but I occasionally run into early mana problems even with 24 lands (due to how expensive everything else in the deck can be), so I'm just curious how you are able to function on 20.
At Alex:
im gonna try running a godo setup with:
-1 Solas
-3 bonfire
-3 Batterskull
-2 Mountain
+1 Jitte
+3 Phyrexian Revoker
+3 Etched Champion
+2 Mox Opal
This cus lower mana ramp is something i want to try and simply because i only have one batterskull.
Any thoughts?
[QUOTE=Hanni;683827]
its a tight mana base, sometimes i get stuck on 3 mana. Luckily metalworker often comes down to safe the day. Wastelands are a nightmare to play against.
Thran dynamo is very important because its way more reliable than grim monoliths who i use very carfully because i cannot untap them. I never liked voltaic key with chalice, and chalice is a win card for any mud deck. Maybe i should go to another artifact like everflowing chalice?
I think the godo build can be very good if a little more attention would be given by legacy experts.
Regarding the manabase:
There's also the trick where you have a City of Traitors in play and a red mana source (the best being Cavern of Souls), play Magus of the Moon, then, retaining priority, play a land. Since playing a land does not use the stack, the opponent cannot kill your Magus in response, and you won't have to sacrifice City of Traitors, since it's a mountain :)
There are some excellent options for more consistently hitting 2 mana on turn 1 and 3-4 mana on turn 2. I agree with you that Key doesn't really fit into a list with Chalice of the Void, but if you're not running Key, I wouldn't run Monolith either. I do believe Chalice is essential, and much more valuable than Monolith + Key. I always run my MUD or Stax lists with 23-25 lands and 4 Mox Diamond.its a tight mana base, sometimes i get stuck on 3 mana. Luckily metalworker often comes down to safe the day. Wastelands are a nightmare to play against.
Thran dynamo is very important because its way more reliable than grim monoliths who i use very carfully because i cannot untap them. I never liked voltaic key with chalice, and chalice is a win card for any mud deck. Maybe i should go to another artifact like everflowing chalice?
I think the godo build can be very good if a little more attention would be given by legacy experts.
You really don't want to be dropping City on turn 1, so you're best sources of 2 mana on turn 1 is either Tomb or Diamond. MUD lists don't run the non-artifact colored spell count for Chrome Mox, and it doesn't run enough cheap artifacts to enable Metalcraft on turn 1 for Mox Opal, so Tomb and Diamond are the best sources for turn 1 mana. Diamond has the awesome ability of letting you either pitch excess Cities, or allow you to still make "land drops" with a City in play.
There are several options for hitting 3-4 mana on turn 2, like Monolith + Key, Talismans/Signets (like Talisman of Impulse or Gruul Signet), Everflowing Chalice, Iron Myr, etc. Again, I think Chalice > Monolith/Key right now.
Thran Dynamo is solid, but it's not making mana till after you hit 4 mana. You really want to be dropping this thing on turn 2 as often as possible, so focusing on trying to make 4 mana on turn 2 as consistently as possible is important IMO. What I like about Dynamo is that since its not an artifact creature like Metalworker, you get to tap it right away, so the tempo loss is minimal, and the ramp on the following turn is pretty big. Dropping Dynamo on turn 2 still lets you drop a 3cc bomb, with 7+ mana available for turn 3 brokenness. Dropping Dynamo on turn 3 is not nearly as busted.
What you choose to run as your additional mana source for making 3-4 mana on turn 2 is up to you. I'm personally a fan of Mox Opal, since it requires 0 mana commitment and provides mana of any color. You do need to run around 8 or more artifact lands to make that happen, though. You mentioned Everflowing Chalice, which seems like a solid option in a mono-colored MUD list, especially when you aren't even running any double red costed spells. So long as you can make 2 mana on turn 1, a turn 1 Everflowing Chalice should easily provide you 4 mana on turn 2.
Once you get the mana figured out, the rest of the deck can be pretty much whatever goodstuff you want to run. Godo seems like a fine choice, although I'd consider running some bigger equipments than the Swords of X and Y. If you can make 6 mana to drop Godo into play, you can afford to play some bigger equip costs on the following turn. Cranial Plating is also a pretty solid option that I haven't seen anyone using yet. Fireshrieker is interesting. Hedron Matrix is pretty beefy... if you slap it on Godo on the following turn, you're swinging for 18 damage (probably for the win, if unblocked). I know you're unable to make green mana, but Mage Slayer is also interesting. Moonsilver Spear is pretty cool... and unlike Geist of Saint Traft, the token sticks around. Nim Deathmantle has some sick synergy with Forgemaster (for those running him). Oathkeeper, Takeno's Daisho is also interesting... but without a way to get Godo into the yard reliably, it's probably just a danger of cool things. Quietus Spike is another interesting option, although doing combat damage to an opponent without any evasion is likely not worth it. Sword of Kaldra looks pretty epic, and likely the best one out of all the ones I listed. Someone already mentioned Sword of Vengeance. Too bad Tenza, Godo's Maul sucks, since it has awesome flavor in a deck with Godo lol.
On a different note, I've been hammering away at a blue MUD list splashing black (and possibly white), and once I'm done fine-tuning it, I'll post it. I've been working on it for like 3 weeks, and still not 100% satisfied just yet... but it's getting pretty damn close to super awesome.
Hmm nice ideas but the equipment shouldnt be too cute. I mostly just bring out batterskull with godo because i expect godo to die fast and horribly. Batterskull is hard to kill/remove and bringing him the godo way only costs one red mana extra! If godo lives.. Than thats board and card advantage. If you play godo later in the game youll get a sword to push trough or to make a magus/metalworker bulletproof. Jitte could be a good alternative to solas because he also got a bit removale in him and 2 godo attacks a turn could get him charged up quick.
I hope your black mud splash consists of nether void. I tried to git him in because hes really good with large mana from mud. Too bad black hasnt got too many other mud cards.. Maybe ancient cravings to get 3 extra cards..
Batterskull definitely makes the most sense as a target for Godo. Tutoring up a 4/4 vigilance lifelink is pretty sweet. Sometimes though, a Batterskull isn't too scary. Goyf, Knight, etc don't care about a 4/4. If you are capable of casting Godo, you can support the bigger equip costs. I wasn't talking about running 10 equipment spells or something crazy. I was listing some cool alternatives to the Swords of X and Y. Slapping a Sword of Kaldra on a Metalworker is pretty savage... 6/7 that exiles a blocking creature sounds pretty nice. Or you know, toss it on a Lodestone for a 10/8. Even with a SoFI, Knight doesn't care about a 7/5 pro red and blue oftentimes.Hmm nice ideas but the equipment shouldnt be too cute. I mostly just bring out batterskull with godo because i expect godo to die fast and horribly. Batterskull is hard to kill/remove and bringing him the godo way only costs one red mana extra! If godo lives.. Than thats board and card advantage. If you play godo later in the game youll get a sword to push trough or to make a magus/metalworker bulletproof. Jitte could be a good alternative to solas because he also got a bit removale in him and 2 godo attacks a turn could get him charged up quick.
I hope your black mud splash consists of nether void. I tried to git him in because hes really good with large mana from mud. Too bad black hasnt got too many other mud cards.. Maybe ancient cravings to get 3 extra cards..
Even against control, having a huge bomby equipment spell sitting there means that even if they Terminus your board, every single creature you draw after that is going to be a serious problem.
Anyway, my U/B version is not running Nether Void (but it could be a possible sideboard option I suppose). The deck isn't trying to do fair things like destroy 1 creature a turn... it's doing broken things like cheating Inkwell Leviathan's and Blightsteel's into play consistently, or assembling a Metalworker/Staff combo ftw, etc. It does leverage quite a bit of card advantage though, in comparison to a typical MUD deck.
Just want to clarify....Whenever a spell resolves, the active player gets priority. so this doesn't take any special action, you just need to make land dropping the first thing you do once magus resolves.
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