[Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

[Alex Holland]

This article is total crap.

The higgest fear of a mud player is a swords to plowshares on your colossus, destroying all ur hard work.

Plus chalice is damn good anyway; delver, deathrite, bolt, mongoose..
Its even better in multiples.

on 2 it destroys merfolk.
On 1 it destroys reanimate.
On 0 it gives ant a hard time.

I like trinisphere too, t1 or t2 its really disruptive. Except its less good late game while a chalice still kills cards out of the game. Chalice is the reason to play mud (+metalworker). It punishes greedy decks.

[Mockingbird]

But to be completely honest, I'm starting to question Levin's credibility when it comes to Legacy theory. I mean, I'm happy that he's a dedicated bi-weekly Legacy writer, but recently he bashed the UWR Delver deck a week before Owen won with it at GP DC, called the BUG Delver approach "lacking" the week before it won (for now...) GP Paris, and "introduced" Blue Jund when it was really just a generic BUG Midrange deck AND it was a deck that Reid Duke won an invitational with.

And interestingly enough, when he speaks of MUD needing to evolve, he misses that MUD-Post already exists and is making semi-regular appearances, one of which won a GP Paris trial and has already been posted here:

//Lands: 24
4 Wasteland
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
3 City of Traitors
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb

//Creatures: 14
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Lodestone Golem
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Platinum Emperion
3 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
3 Wurmcoil Engine

//Artifacts: 20
2 Bottled Cloister
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
4 Tangle Wire
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Thran Dynamo
2 Voltaic Key

//Planeswalkers: 2
2 Karn Liberated

//Soceries: 1
1 All Is Dust

//Sideboard:
3 Trinisphere
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 All Is Dust
1 Sundering Titan
2 Cursed Totem

I've been testing this, and while it is much slower since it doesn't have an "Oops, eat Blightsteel", it has a long game because Holy cow! Cloudpost is a great card against control, which is dominating at the moment. Although, I don't know if this is technically MUD since it lacks Metalworker and Forgemaster. It plays more like a colorless control deck.

[Alex Holland]

Why wouldnt it have blightsteel? Instead of 3 hellkites it could also run 3 forgemaster to keep that lonely sundering titan company.. and why 2 thran and no worker? Yes worker is vunerable but its 3 mana wich is huge.

Anyway cloudpost is horrible, a abomination. But i do love my pimp japanese workers so i might be biased.

[Mockingbird]

Why wouldnt it have blightsteel? Instead of 3 hellkites it could also run 3 forgemaster to keep that lonely sundering titan company.. and why 2 thran and no worker? Yes worker is vunerable but its 3 mana wich is huge.

Anyway cloudpost is horrible, a abomination. But i do love my pimp japanese workers so i might be biased.

I've played Cloudpost in Legacy since Jeremiah Rudolph made second place in October 2012, so consequently my two go to decks are 12-Post and MUD-Post. So the bias may also exist on my part.

That being said, this deck that topped right here is the first MUD-Post I've seen or played without both Metalworker or Kuldotha Forgemaster. Also, maining Bottled Cloister is risky because your opponent can nail your hand with Vindicate or Maelstrom Pulse. One thing I noticed though is that it's better at recovery than traditional MUD when it gets the steam knocked out of it because Cloudpost is harder to hit than people think. Four Wasteland isn't going to go as far as you think unless a Crucible of Worlds or Life of Loam is involved, and even then, any MUD player is in an uphill battle.

I'm not even sure if this is technically even MUD, but I see potential.

[Grand Superior]

i actually just bought the Bottled Cloisters and will try 1-2 in my MUD-Post list. Thanks to it costing 4 mana, it nicely dodges Abrupt Decay and I don't foresee it being destroyed too often because answers to stuff like that are few and far between (though admittedly there's more to worry about postboard) and sometimes the stax plan will prevent them from doing anything about it. It just seems to be more reasonable, mana-cost wise, than Staff of Nin.

[Alex Holland]

i actually just bought the Bottled Cloisters and will try 1-2 in my MUD-Post list. Thanks to it costing 4 mana, it nicely dodges Abrupt Decay and I don't foresee it being destroyed too often because answers to stuff like that are few and far between (though admittedly there's more to worry about postboard) and sometimes the stax plan will prevent them from doing anything about it. It just seems to be more reasonable, mana-cost wise, than Staff of Nin.

Absolutly. I think staff of nin doesnt do enough for six mana, ocasionnaly pinging a 1 toughness doesnt cut it.
I did try cloudpost build but i became very frustrated with the come into play tapped lands.

Maybe u tangle wire dudes should take a look at storage matrix, seems a legit obstacle in such a build.

This what i play now:

4 city of traitors
4 mishra factory
4 cavern
4 ancient tomb
4 wasteland
2 petrified field

4 metalworker
4 kuldotha forgemaster
4 lodestone golem
1 steel hellkite
3 wurmcoil engine
1 blightsteel colossus
1 platinum emperion
3 phyrexian revoker

4 grim monolith
2 thran dynamo
3 ratchet bomb
4 chalice of the void
2 trinisphere
1 staff of domination
1 karn liberated

[kingtk3]

I've read the article, and while it seems to bring some good points it completely fails when talking about the side: so now the answer to combo is tangle wire and not chalice of the void? Basically ANY combo deck has an hard time (or scoops) to chalice@1. Even decks like sneak and show (which don't automatically lose) are stripped of all their manipulation, giving us the time to win.

I almost felt for that :(

Chalice@1 is not an hardlock, it's a preemptive answer to the most efficient legacy spells, which most decks are composed of.

If the author fears stoneforge based decks and thinks that the solution is to play more dumb 6 mana spells clearly have never played a wurmcoil to see it sworded, and when you are left topdecking the opponent manipulates its draws with ponder and brainstorm. Chalice@1 solves all of them.

[(nameless one)]

I agree that Chalice @ 1 doesn't really win games anymore but the same argument goes to Swords to Plowshares.

Swords to Plowshare isn't a catch all creature removal anymore but decks still run it because it still does its work for the most part.

[gregtron]

I would use specific decks.

Storm Combo for instance is too broad(as well graveyard strategy which bruizar explained). I haven't played with MUD much so I may be wrong here, but aren't TES/ANT easier matchups while belcher and High Tide decks tougher matchups?

Kind of. TES and Belcher will often roll you because of how fast they are, but it's not like you can't do degenerate stuff like turn 1 Trinisphere, Chalice, etc. The ANT matchup should be much easier because they're a couple turns slower, but they're going to spend more time picking apart your hand with Therapy and Thoughtseize (which can be rough for MUD). High Tide, though? No clue. They take a while to go off, but they pack a fair amount of permission. I haven't seen a High Tide player in a LONG time, though.

[kingtk3]

The biggest advantage of high tide is that it can wish for hurkyl's recall or rebuild and clean our board the eot before the turn they go off, and it doesn't care about life points (unlike TES or ANT that play ad nauseam): if you don't put some pressure you can end up dead even if you lay multiple resistors.

But the deck is indeed quite rare.

[biglongjohns]

Here is my updated list:
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sundering Titan
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
4 Trinisphere
1 Staff of Nin
1 Staff of Domination
2 Lightning Greaves
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Karn Liberated

3 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
2 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

Sideboard:
2 All Is Dust
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Spine of Ish Sah
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Witchbane Orb
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Angel

I went 3-1 in my local tournament tonight beating Jund Lands, Hypergenesis, and UW Weathered Wayfarer.dec. My one loss was to BUG Delver. I am having difficulty with this matchup.

Without suggesting to change my 75, can anyone help me sideboard vs. BUG decks? I usually side in a lot of cards but never really know what to take out. I would typically do something like this:
-4 Trinisphere
-1 Spine of Ish Sah
-1 Staff of Nin
-4 ???
+2 All Is Dust (needs o explanation)
+2 Ratchet Bomb (helps kill early delver or DRS)
+3 Phyrexian Revoker (naming DRS or Liliana)
+2 Witchbane Orb (cuz Hymn/TS are a beating)
+1 Sundering Titan (destroys this deck)

I think Trinisphere can be bad in this matchup as they play DRS and don't care too much about paying 3 for spells. Spine and Staff seem like fine cards to be replaced by better cards. I've tried siding out 4x Chalice of the Void on the draw as it doesn't kill a Delver that they played on their first turn. However, Chalice at 2 can blank Hymn and Goyf. Any thoughts?

[Alex Holland]

I agree that Chalice @ 1 doesn't really win games anymore but the same argument goes to Swords to Plowshares.

Swords to Plowshare isn't a catch all creature removal anymore but decks still run it because it still does its work for the most part.

If i play a card that takes more then 1 card of my opponent out of the game im winning. Thats magic right?

Plus the best removal is 1 mana in legacy.

Burn dies from it too lol

[MGB]

Here is my updated list:
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sundering Titan
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
4 Trinisphere
1 Staff of Nin
1 Staff of Domination
2 Lightning Greaves
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Karn Liberated

3 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
2 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

Sideboard:
2 All Is Dust
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Spine of Ish Sah
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Witchbane Orb
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Angel

I went 3-1 in my local tournament tonight beating Jund Lands, Hypergenesis, and UW Weathered Wayfarer.dec. My one loss was to BUG Delver. I am having difficulty with this matchup.

Without suggesting to change my 75, can anyone help me sideboard vs. BUG decks? I usually side in a lot of cards but never really know what to take out. I would typically do something like this:
-4 Trinisphere
-1 Spine of Ish Sah
-1 Staff of Nin
-4 ???
+2 All Is Dust (needs o explanation)
+2 Ratchet Bomb (helps kill early delver or DRS)
+3 Phyrexian Revoker (naming DRS or Liliana)
+2 Witchbane Orb (cuz Hymn/TS are a beating)
+1 Sundering Titan (destroys this deck)

I think Trinisphere can be bad in this matchup as they play DRS and don't care too much about paying 3 for spells. Spine and Staff seem like fine cards to be replaced by better cards. I've tried siding out 4x Chalice of the Void on the draw as it doesn't kill a Delver that they played on their first turn. However, Chalice at 2 can blank Hymn and Goyf. Any thoughts?

BUG Delver is ridiculously good. I think right now it's far and away the best deck in the format. You can't really expect to go more than 40/60 against that deck with anything, so what I've found is that the key is to survive into the mid-game when MUD's bombs are simply better than anything an opposing aggro deck can play. The key is survival. I like to play Tangle Wire in the main over Trinisphere as it helps a bit vs. opposing aggro decks like Delver with few permanents.

[Mr. Froggy]

One of my favorite opening plays is Chalice on 1 turn one...

[maCHOOga]

Just curious, has anyone ever tried brewing either a Blue or Green splash MUD deck? Similar to the welder version.

Blue gives you access to:
Treasure Mage
Thoughtcast
Ancient ruins
Back to Basics lol!!

Green gives you access to:
Ancient Stirrings
Krosan Grip
Beast Within

[kingofethanol]

Just curious, has anyone ever tried brewing either a Blue or Green splash MUD deck? Similar to the welder version.

Blue gives you access to:
Treasure Mage
Thoughtcast
Ancient ruins
Back to Basics lol!!

Green gives you access to:
Ancient Stirrings
Krosan Grip
Beast Within

I have heard of green lists with Sylvan Library and Seal of Primordium. Seal can be better than Krosan Grip because you're usually trying to cast those cards with a Tree of Tales or a Mox, and those get shut off by Stony Silence/Null Rod. However that would imply that you would need to 1) have a green source 2) find and resolve the Seal before Rod hits play. I don't think it is worth tying up mana to add these benefits.

I have tried blue with Thirst for Knowledge (w/ Trinisphere) and Thoughtcast (w/o Trinisphere). I did like them during the short period I played them. However I just got tired of not having a blue source consistently, so I dropped them. They were really good when they were good and really bad when they were bad. There wasn't really an in between.

The argument against Stirrings is that it's CMC1 (Chalice) and that this isn't GR Tron - the deck is not trying to assemble a very specific collection of cards. Same goes for Treasure Mage. If you want another threat, just add another artifact to your deck.

[biglongjohns]

For anyone who has tried a singleton Platinum Angel in the sideboard, against what decks would this card be sided? Maybe death and taxes? I'm undecided if it deserves a slot in the board.

[maCHOOga]

I've played either Platinum Angel or Platinum Emperion in my board.

The trade off is this: Angel is a clock, however dies to more removal (dismember). Emperion has a bigger butt which let's him live longer but there's times when he can't attack into army of dudes.

Death and taxes is tricky in general. As they can swords either or if you try to equip a greaves, they revoke it.

[Mr. Froggy]

For anyone who has tried a singleton Platinum Angel in the sideboard, against what decks would this card be sided? Maybe death and taxes? I'm undecided if it deserves a slot in the board.

I usually set Chalice on 1, and blank removal.

[Alex Holland]

Most fun EVER is t1 chalice at 1 t2 chalice at 2.

I see city of traitors jumped to $80 now so cloudpostmanabase should become more attractive for new MUDers..

Mainly city jumped because painter servant won a starcity event. I love blood moon as sort of a random oops i win card, maybe ill try to merge the decks once more. Kuldotha can tutor both painter and grindstone. Should be fun. Something like this?

4# painter servant
3# phyrexian revoker
4# kuldotha forgemaster
4# goblin welder
1# blightsteel colossus

4# grindstone
3# gamble
4# blood moon
4# trinisphere
3# lotus petal
4# pyroblast
2# red elemental blast

4# ancient tomb
4# city of traitors
4# cavern of souls
4# great furnace
4# mountain