Sphere is there for Miracles and Show and Tell.
The two ways RUG beats you are either playing turn 1 Delver and denying you from playing anything or cantripping into lands so they have many Goyfs and then preventing us from gaining life.
I'm not a huge fan of sphere main board. I love it in vintage but not so much in legacy. Thank for the advice on the crucibles and like I said will try out a lot of number combinations. I also am a huge fan of mox diamond in this deck.
Originally Posted by thefringthing
Is playing around daze even that important when they can pitch it for a FOW or brainstorm+fitchland for a different stuff? Either way the card wont hurt them so I can't see why they would board it out.
The deck is solid, the only way we win is a misplay on the rug players part or being able to land a lifelink creature to make up for the beginning of the game where they build the board up while not letting a single ramp or robot effect them. Or resolving a soft lock early enough. G1 is way better than G2+ bc they don't have grudge in yet. And will normally scoop to wurmcoil. Or if they fail hard emperion.
I think going against rug you need to know when to mull. I prefer having enough land so that wasteland isn't a problem. And using the ramp to bait counters. Boarding cards like trinisphere is kinda okay but wont help after a few turns. I'm actually thinking about grafdiggers cage or cards like ubamask that shuts down cantrips and fetching, for sb but not sure about that atm.
Primary deck: Mud
Secondary deck: Burn
Building: Nic Fit
Hi everyone!
I am a huge fan of this deck since always and wanted to share my list with you in order to have some feedback...
The list I am currently playing is:
Creatures:
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Platinum Angel
Other:
4 Chalice Of The Void
4 Grim Monolith
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Opal
2 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Staff Of Domination
1 Staff Of Nin
3 Lightning Greaves
Lands:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City Of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Buried Ruins
2 Darksteel Citadel
2 Cavern Of Souls
As you can see, except for 4 Lodestone Golem, I am not using any sphere effect in the main as I feel it is not as powerful in Legacy as it is in Vintage. I have also tried a Stax version with 4 Serum Powder, 4 Leyline Of The Void, 4 Helm Of Obedience and 2-3 Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth but did not go through with it... Is this something you've already tried?
Hi, I don't play the forgemaster list but I'll give you my opinion anyway.
If you play forgemaster you play a combo deck, thus I don't think you need the crucibles since they are more for a control/stax deck. I would increase the count of moxes since they give you speed and the possibility to close a turn earlier: so I'd add 2 mox opal, 2 darksteel citadel and 2 great furnace (in order to achieve metalcraft) for 4 mishra's (quite unuseful in combo in my opinion) and 2 crucible.
About the leyline combo: I've never tested it but I feel you could have some difficulty to have double black and you don't want to aggressively mulligan to have it in your starting hand. I would play rest in piece instead, if I have to.
Thank you for your answer!
The 2 Cucibles are mainly for grindier games and Buried Ruin shenanigans. Also some games are just won with it + Wasteland
Concerning the Mishras I agree with you and I realised myself they were not useful in this deck.
However I have more issues with adding 1-2 Mox Opal beacause:
it is a bad draw when you already have 1 on the board
it is not usable until the 2nd or 3rd turn
I prefer Mox Diamond because extra copies can still be sacrificed to Forgemaster and it has synergy with Crucible.
Maybe I'm wrong to hang on Crucible but so far I'm stisfied with it!
@Monkey_Island: Ok, let us know how it works for you!
I'll attend at a medium event (~60 people) in a couple if weeks and I'm thinking about playing Stompy MUD, but since it's been a couple of months since my last tournament I would like your opinions about the deck, especially
is stompy MUD a good choice in today meta?
what are the worst matchups? and the best?
advice on the deck and tips on sideboarding
This is the list I'm planning to play
2 mox diamond
4 grim monolith
3 trinisphere
2 thran dynamo
4 chalice of the void
3 metalworker
3 phyrexian metamorph
4 lodestone golem
2 razormane masticore
2 wurmcoil engine
2 steel hellkite
2 godo, bandit warlord
1 umezawa's jitte
1 sword of fire and ice
2 batterskull
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 wasteland
4 rishadan port
3 mountain
4 cavern of soul
SIDE
3 spine of ish sah
3 dodecapod
3 phyrexian revoker
3 tormod's crypt
3 ratchet bomb
ACCELERATIONS: mox diamond, grim monolith, thran dynamo, metalworker, ancient tomb, city of traitors
DISRUPTION: chalice of the void, trinisphere, lodestone golem, wasteland, rishadan port and partially phyrexian metamorph
BEATERS: lodestone golem, razormane masticore, wurmcoil engine, steel hellkite, godo, batterskull, eventually phyrexian metamorph
UTILITIES: razormane masticore, phyrexian metamorph, umezawa's jitte, sword of fire and ice
The plan is very simple: lay one or two pieces of disruption than beat the opponent before he can recover.
I'm unsure about the number of Godos (I would like 3), the Jitte and the sword. Masticore is here to take care of opposing creatures.
The cards I'm less sure about are the mox diamonds because although they provide early acceleration they are card disadvantage and I want to reduce the targets for abrupt decay. They could become a Godo and a Dynamo.
For the side:
- dodecapod is against discard (jund mainly, but any deck that plays liliana basically)
- spine is for show and tell decks
- revoker is a jolly, can name anything from sneak attack to lion's eye diamond
- crypt is the grave hate of choice because it can be played with chalice@1
- bomb is a catch all against tokens and tribal
I would like to keep karn liberated and all is dust in the side, but I cannot find room.
Sideboard strategies
Storm combo, Charbelcher: +3 revoker, +3 ratchet (for goblin tokens), -2 masticore, -1 Sword, -2 hellkite, -1 jitte
Canadian: -1 metalworker, -1 godo, +2 ratchet
Jund: +3 dodecapod, -2 mox, -1 sword
show and tell: +3 spine, +3 revoker, -2 masticore, -1 sword, -1 jitte, -2 hellkite
miracle: basically nothing, maybe -2 masticore, +2 ratchet
Can you help me sharpen the deck and improve the sideboard strategies?
Thank you!
Btw, another yard hate card you can consider is Faerie Macabre. Under Spheres, it's still "free" so you won't hurt yourself there.
Stompy for the win!
However stompy is different from combo. So i would go for more control:
-lodestone golem is a beatstick that slows down. Especially with port and wasteland.
-karn liberated is crazy good. destroys what you want. Often more than onces.
-i dont like mox diamond. He makes your hand smaller. DO you really need him with 8 sol lands, 4 monoliths, 3 metalworkers? i dont think so.
-i dont get razormane masticore.. not even as a sideboard against creature heavy decks. You already have steel hellkite wich is easily much better.
-Have you tried magus of the moon? He wins against some decks, can hold a sword/batterskull and is a human just like godo so cavern on human and lock them.
VERY INTERESTING LIST! I really don't agree with the trini's I would rather just have 2 crucible's in that spot and an additional land. Aside from that I love the idea of just beating them to death with an equipped metalworker. Robot with a sword haha. How has razormane masticore treated you thus far?
Report: 2nd at Cosmo's Basement
Land/Accel
4x Dark Steel Citadel
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City Of Traitors
4x Cavern Of Souls
2x Wasteland
4x Crystal Vein
Utility Stuff
2x Voltaic Key
2x Lightning Grieves
Extra Ramp
2x Mox Diamond
4x Grim Monolith
Speed Bumps
4x Chalice Of The Void
2x All Is Dust
Creatures/Speed Bumps/Utility
4x Lodestone Golem
4x Metal Worker
2x Worm Coil Engine
2x Myr Battle Sphere
2x Steel Hell Kite
2x Phyrexian Metamorph
4x Kuldotha Forgemaster
1x Blightsteel Colossus
1x Platinum Emperion
Sideboard
2x Witchbane Orb
4x Trinisphere
4x Tormods Crypt
2x Surgical Extraction
1x All Is Dust
2x Ratchet Bomb
*Note* I had sent my Crucibles and 2 of my Wastelands away to be signed so my decklist wasn't what it should be.
I went home to Springfield MA for the week so I could play in my cousin Cosmo's legacy tourney (and go to my grandpa's funeral) he has every 6 months. Winner got a free calzone from Pizza Makers and a bottle of Crisp http://save-a-lot.com/products/orange.
The players:
Cosmo: U/B Reanimator
Keith: Merfolk
Anubis: Storm
Alex(my brother): Mono white control deck he built with me and Cosmo's cards.
Black Kirk: Burn
A.J.: Mill
We get over to Cosmo's around 4pm and of course he is still sleeping because he stayed up until 5 in the morning playing DDR. He says DDR has restored his health and he is glad he found something that provides his daily exercise. We jump on his mattress on the floor until he calls us scrubs and wakes up to get one of his token anime button up shirts. He shows us video of his new online girlfriend and her cat and tells us he's going to move to Wisconsin to be with her (it was weird). Then he attempts speed runs for Punky Skunk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punky_Skunk until the rest of the crew show up. Black Kirk shows up last with three 20 piece chicken nuggets from Mcdonalds and two bottles of Crisp, one for the winner and one for himself.
Game 1 Against Alex
I haven't seen what Alex has brewed yet so I walk right into a mana tithe after going all in with exploding my Crystal Veins. I take forever to find lands. He has elspeth and moat out. I play All is Dust wiping the board and then drop a golem and equip with greaves to take the game.
Sboarding: I take out Emperion and put in an additional All is Dust.
Game 2: He gets mana flooded and drops a moat and a ghostly prison. I play a steel hell kite who flys over the moat for the win.
Game 1 Against Cosmo
He gets a turn 2 Iona. I laugh and win anyways.
Sboarding: I don't remember.
Game 2: I get a turn 1 chalice and think I have him but he recovers with Jin Gitaxis and a Griselbrand.
Game 3: I get another turn 1 chalice and kill him with a myr battlesphere.
Game 0 against A.J.
A.J. is pussy whipped and has to go run errands for his girlfriend (who he shows us pictures of, no one is impressed)
Easy win!
I watch Keith and Cosmo play and witness awesomeness in game 2. Keith has a chalice at one and his 2 lands tapped. He surgical extractions naming exhume, Cosmo dazes in response, Keith surgicals again, Cosmo dazes again, Keith Dazes back... then they remember the chalice on one. We all lol and they call that game a draw.
Game 1 against Black Kirk
I get hit down to 4 and recover with a hasty Worm Coil Engine.
Sboarding: Bringing in Witchbane Orb and Trinisphere.
Game 2: I go all in on a witchbane orb with my crystal veins and pay dearly when I get smashed to smithereened I never find any land and don't recover.
About this time Kirk finishes his 60 piece nuggets. I am amazed. He is still hungry.
Game 3: I get a chalice on 1 and a witchbane orb into play. He eventually finds his smash to smithereens but it's too late.
Game 1 against Anubis
I get an easy win with 2 chalices in play.
Sboarding: Bringing in witchbane orb and trinisphere.
Game 2: He gets the turn 1 16 goblins or so that I can't beat.
Game 3: I get god hand and just lock him out of the game completely. 2 chalices in play and then a witchbane seal the deal.
Finals against Keith
I get a turn 1 chalice and then get a battle sphere out which he can't deal with. I'm feeling good.
Sboarding: All is dust and ratchet bomb come in.
Game 2: I tap out for a worm coil engine he dazes. He drops a back to basics and I never recover.
Game 3: This was truly an epic finisher. I all is dust twice, the second time losing 2 of my lands which were crystal veins. He gets me down to 2 life (he is at 4) I top deck an answer of Worm coil engine which I play and equip with greaves. He has one card in hand. I go to attack phase and with a smirk say "G.G." he looks down at his hand for 30 seconds and then taps three mana and psionic blasts me for the win. I am not happy.
Keith gets a bacon, mushroom, ricotta, pepperoni calzone and the crisp.
Props
All is dust- You were a champ all day.
Worm coil engine- One of the best creatures in the deck.
Pizza Makers- Great calzones.
A.J.'s girlfriend- Thanks for the win.
Slops
Psionic Blast
Crystal Vein
Congestive heart disease
Last edited by baghdadbob; 05-08-2013 at 11:34 AM.
I want to talk about sideboarding with this deck. Looking for advice from those of you who have done well in large scale tournaments with the forgemaster build which is basically in it's essence a combo/aggro deck with some control elements like chalice, which double over as protection for removal.
The list I'm playing now for reference:
Land:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Great Furnace
2 Buried Ruin
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Metalworker
4 Goblin Welder
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Batterskull
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Blightsteel Colossus
3 Lightning Greaves
4 Grim Monolith
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Voltaic Key
1 Mox Diamond
1 Staff of Domination
Side Board:
4 Trinisphere
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Oblivion Stone
2 Crucible of Worlds
I will be running 3 Spellskite in the SB as soon as I buy some. Oblivion Stone would usually be All is Dust, but I'm testing this out to see if it's any good.
So to talk about sideboarding, cause I often struggle to take cards out and find room for the ones to side in, also deciding which cards to bring in for different match ups. For example, I would not side in Trinisphere against Miracles or Esper Stoneblade as it is a terrible mid-game card, and they can usually stabilize and play around it in the experience that I've had playing against those particular match ups. But maybe that's just my luck. Also with this build there's less of a chance of getting out a turn 1 trinisphere. We need to have mox diamond and a soul land, or grim monolith and a sol land.
I would usually bring in Trinisphere against ANT, TES, High Tide, Elves, and probably BUG shardless, R/G/(U) delver and the likes. The deck is so tight already, I find it hard to decide what to take out when I'm sideboarding after game 1.
How do you guys side board against the following decks usually? (Post your sideboards and/or deck lists if you feel like it).
U/R Delver, Canadian Thresh, BUG shardless etc
Miracles
Esper Stoneblade
Sneak and Show
Death and Taxes
Merfolk
Goblins
Esper and miracles are our worst match-ups in my opinion and I would like to know how everyone else usually fairs in this match up and what your sideboard strategies are. Aggro control tempo decks can go either way, but I feel like it's a good match up for us. Combo is an easy win usually (TES, ANT), but I have trouble with elves because of natural order, usually resulting in them bringing out progenitus. Anyhow, I could blab on but I really just want to get a discussion going about sideboarding strategies I.E. what to take out/bring in against different match-ups. thanks for the time, gents. Hope to hear from ya.
Anyone have a solid Tangle Wire/Smokestack shell? It could be a method of approaching these blue monsters.
I currently don't play Smokestack in my build since I don't have 2 more Crucible of Worlds. I have proxied it up before, and I find them to be akward or unecessary if you don't have crucible of Worlds out in play. I really think Smokestack don't belong in Mud. I would love to hear anyone refute my argument.
Awesome, so glad someone is also thinking this, I've had a few in my sideboard for a long time now. They haven't been extensively tested but I usually only bring them in against Dredge and Reanimator, where Trinisphere/Chalice is important to resolve.
Some Tangle Wires should be coming in the mail. I'm hoping I'll have the time to test them out next weekend. I have high hopes and expectations of the card, but it can also be a huge flop. No matter, I do not mind having every iteration of MUD (aside from the strange Godo/Affinity lists I've seen floating around this thread).
Tangle Wire is great with Goblin Welder. Keep that in mind.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
My new manabase:
4x Wasteland
4x Darksteel Citadel / Buried Ruins
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City Of Traitors
4x Thespian's Stage
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Dark Depths
2/3x Crucible of Worlds
I have a question, if i have City of Traitors on the battlefield and i play Thespian's Stage, can i tap the City to add 2 mana, copy it with Stage and then sacrifice the City?
I don't think you can. You have to have the Thespian Stage in play already before you can copy the City of Traitors. It's still a marginal play, but it can give you that minor manabump you may need to get your spells online. Copying a Buried Ruins is sort of nice as well.
I'm also contemplating whether or not it might be a good idea to change to the locus-mana base of:
4 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Thespian Stage
3 Dark Depths
Mox Diamond can make hay out of extra dark depths and help give metalcraft to Mox opals, my head is nearly spinning.
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