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Thread: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

  1. #201
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    Staff of Nin still needs to be tested. It's not only good for removal/reach, it's also great for that extra card draws. Although at 6 mana, you would rather be doing other things.
    If you really want card draw, Bottled Cloister seems like very reasonable draw in this deck and better than the Staff. You play no instants, so the only real drawback is losing your hand if the cloister gets destroyed. Generally this seems very easy to play around though since either 1) They will use their very sparse artifact hate on threats (Chalice, Hellkite, etc.) or 2) You can just empty your hand and then play this out to keep going.

    Eye of Ugin might be another option, but I think it's worse than any of the other options, though if you have 7 mana open it's pretty sweet. Dysynergy with City of Traitors is definitely a detriment. Again though, probably not what the deck is looking for.

    That said, there are a lot of powerful artifacts, so it's difficult to say if this is the type of effect the deck would be looking for. Honestly, if I wanted a resilient threat I'd probably opt for Batterskull, since it can be returned every turn.
    Playing Punishing Regular Miracles.

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  2. #202

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    I used to run Bottled Cloister + Ensnaring Bridge ;)
    In that build i run the combo Metalworker + Staff of domination to draw tons of cards and generate tons of mana to cast emrakul and attack or cast Banefire for 20 and win. I was pretty good but risky at the same time as metioned above.

    I'm considing running Staff x1 + Metalworker + Banefire x1 (no cloister) as a wincon nowadays.
    We can tutor staff with Forgemaster and win if we have an active non-aswered worker on line!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zirath View Post
    Hi all, I took down Mythic again with MUD. I went to Jupiter the previous weekend and went 3-2 to take 12th. I could literally see my poor play in my losses after reflecting on the matches. This weekend I was a little more careful and it definitely paid off.

    My list as usual:

    4 Wurmcoil Engine
    4 Steel Hellkite
    4 Lodestone Golem
    3 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Platinum Emperion
    2 Karn Liberated

    4 Thran Dynamo
    4 Grim Monolith
    3 Metalworker
    3 Voltaic Key

    4 Chalice of the Void
    1 All is Dust

    3 Buried Ruin
    3 Mishra's Factory
    4 Wasteland
    4 Rishadan Port
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Ancient Tomb

    SB: 3 Cursed Totem
    SB: 4 Trinisphere
    SB: 4 Thorn of Amethyst
    SB: 1 Karn Liberated
    SB: 2 All is Dust
    SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds
    Congrats!!! My main question is how do you carry out with de dichotomy Key - Chalice.
    Chalice @1 makes key just another worker fodder....
    Last edited by GoldenCid; 08-04-2012 at 03:47 PM.

  3. #203

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    I played with Zirath's deck today and saw the importance of Platinum Emperion. He gives you so much virtual life, it is not even funny. One time, I had three Ancient Tombs out, and it would have easily killed me if I had Batterskull instead. Or at least, I would not have been able to dump my entire hand, and proceeded to kill my opponent's mana. Platinum Emperion was not hard to cast when I plan ahead.

    Congrats!!! My main question is how do you carry out with de dichotomy Key - Chalice.
    Chalice @1 makes key just another worker fodder....
    Honestly, when I played his deck, it didn't bother me. Sometimes, I would hold off Chalice a turn or two depending on the matchup. Like against Burn, I would bring out Chalice ASAP. Against Goblins with Caverns, not so much. And sometimes, you'd get Key before Chalice. Key is so good in this deck, I am willing to take a gamble with Chalice.

  4. #204

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by L10 View Post
    Honestly, when I played his deck, it didn't bother me. Sometimes, I would hold off Chalice a turn or two depending on the matchup. Like against Burn, I would bring out Chalice ASAP. Against Goblins with Caverns, not so much. And sometimes, you'd get Key before Chalice. Key is so good in this deck, I am willing to take a gamble with Chalice.
    Well...let's say that i am not a lucky man. Running chalice with key or welder leads me to draw key or welder after dropping chalice @1. Almost ina unvariable manner. I think that this is a matter of playstyle i guess.

    I'm now running this list with nice results:
    // Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

    // Lands
    4 [TE] Wasteland
    4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
    4 [EX] City of Traitors
    4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)
    2 [M12] Buried Ruin
    1 [CHK] Hall of the Bandit Lord
    4 [MR] Great Furnace

    // Creatures
    4 [UD] Metalworker
    4 [WWK] Lodestone Golem
    3 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
    1 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
    2 [SOM] Steel Hellkite
    1 [SOM] Myr Battlesphere
    4 [SOM] Kuldotha Forgemaster
    1 [MBS] Blightsteel Colossus

    // Spells
    4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
    2 [SOM] Mox Opal
    2 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
    4 [UL] Grim Monolith
    2 [MR] Lightning Greaves
    1 [ROE] All Is Dust
    1 [CFX] Banefire
    1 [FD] Staff of Domination

    // Sideboard
    SB: 4 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 3 [UL] Defense Grid
    SB: 4 [DS] Trinisphere
    SB: 3 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
    SB: 1 [MBS] Spine of Ish Sah

    Some notes...

    Buried Ruin is a real nice card since it allows us to get rid (up to some point) from discard or countermagic.
    I've just begun to test Hall of the Bandit Lord, i think that giving haste to a monster could be so good and even game sometimes. Has anybody tested it yet??
    Great Furnace is there to support Banefire. I'm not pretty sure if a set of it is justified, maybe 2 in exchange with Darksteel Citadel is ok.
    Moreover Banefire tech could be not necesary i tested it a time ago and it was so good...maybe now that maverick is on scene Gaddock Teeg could be a problem in this point. What do you suggest for replacement??
    THx!!

  5. #205

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenCid View Post
    Well...let's say that i am not a lucky man. Running chalice with key or welder leads me to draw key or welder after dropping chalice @1. Almost ina unvariable manner. I think that this is a matter of playstyle i guess.

    I'm now running this list with nice results:
    // Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

    // Lands
    4 [TE] Wasteland
    4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
    4 [EX] City of Traitors
    4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)
    2 [M12] Buried Ruin
    1 [CHK] Hall of the Bandit Lord
    4 [MR] Great Furnace

    // Creatures
    4 [UD] Metalworker
    4 [WWK] Lodestone Golem
    3 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
    1 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
    2 [SOM] Steel Hellkite
    1 [SOM] Myr Battlesphere
    4 [SOM] Kuldotha Forgemaster
    1 [MBS] Blightsteel Colossus

    // Spells
    4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
    2 [SOM] Mox Opal
    2 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
    4 [UL] Grim Monolith
    2 [MR] Lightning Greaves
    1 [ROE] All Is Dust
    1 [CFX] Banefire
    1 [FD] Staff of Domination

    // Sideboard
    SB: 4 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 3 [UL] Defense Grid
    SB: 4 [DS] Trinisphere
    SB: 3 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
    SB: 1 [MBS] Spine of Ish Sah

    Some notes...

    Buried Ruin is a real nice card since it allows us to get rid (up to some point) from discard or countermagic.
    I've just begun to test Hall of the Bandit Lord, i think that giving haste to a monster could be so good and even game sometimes. Has anybody tested it yet??
    Great Furnace is there to support Banefire. I'm not pretty sure if a set of it is justified, maybe 2 in exchange with Darksteel Citadel is ok.
    Moreover Banefire tech could be not necesary i tested it a time ago and it was so good...maybe now that maverick is on scene Gaddock Teeg could be a problem in this point. What do you suggest for replacement??
    THx!!
    Yes I have. Hall of the Bandit Lord is pretty awesome since it can give haste to a Metalworker or Forgemaster before it gets plowed, unlike equipment.

    On Banefire: I Have no idea why you would want to go for Banefire when you could go for Bonfire of the Damned, which is a card I still need to test myself.

  6. #206

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    This is the list I'm currently testing. I have played a bunch of variations of this build, but the current one is my main focus:


    2 Sensei's Divining Top
    2 Voltaic Key
    3 Metalworker

    4 Thran Dynamo
    4 Grim Monolith
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lodestone Golem

    3 Wurmcoil Engine
    2 Godo, Bandit Warlord
    2 Batterskull
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Moltensteel Dragon
    4 Bonfire of the Damned
    2 Karn Liberated

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Wasteland
    3 Rishadan Port
    3 Cavern of Souls
    3 City of Traitors
    5 Mountain
    1 Barbarian Ring
    Bonfire of the Damned - Singlesided Wrath of God and burn at the same time. Goes well with all the mana artifacts in the deck.

    Moltensteel Dragon - Still testing this. Phyrexian mana help keep the curve down, and it gives insane reach with lifelinkers and Bonfire of the Damned.

    Cavern of Souls - Dodging FoW is important when you're paying 6 mana for a creature.

    Godo, Bandit Warlord - Card is the real deal. I have extensively tested him and he is insane because he dodges Swords to Plowshares and does insane lifeswings (up to 28 life per hit). Reduces the curve because you run a split between Batterskull (5) and Godo (6). If you play red, always play Godo before Wurmcoil.

    Thran Dynamo - Still not sure if this card is good enough. I think it should be replaced for something less mana intensive.

  7. #207

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    This is the list I'm currently testing. I have played a bunch of variations of this build, but the current one is my main focus:


    2 Sensei's Divining Top
    2 Voltaic Key
    3 Metalworker

    4 Thran Dynamo
    4 Grim Monolith
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Lodestone Golem

    3 Wurmcoil Engine
    2 Godo, Bandit Warlord
    2 Batterskull
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Moltensteel Dragon
    4 Bonfire of the Damned
    2 Karn Liberated

    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Wasteland
    3 Rishadan Port
    3 Cavern of Souls
    3 City of Traitors
    5 Mountain
    1 Barbarian Ring
    Bonfire of the Damned - Singlesided Wrath of God and burn at the same time. Goes well with all the mana artifacts in the deck.

    Moltensteel Dragon - Still testing this. Phyrexian mana help keep the curve down, and it gives insane reach with lifelinkers and Bonfire of the Damned.

    Cavern of Souls - Dodging FoW is important when you're paying 6 mana for a creature.

    Godo, Bandit Warlord - Card is the real deal. I have extensively tested him and he is insane because he dodges Swords to Plowshares and does insane lifeswings (up to 28 life per hit). Reduces the curve because you run a split between Batterskull (5) and Godo (6). If you play red, always play Godo before Wurmcoil.

    Thran Dynamo - Still not sure if this card is good enough. I think it should be replaced for something less mana intensive.
    This is a very interesting build. I may give it a whirl if I can grab some Bonfires. I think it's a very creative variant on the MUD Stompy list that Fropper and I have been piloting.

  8. #208

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    In testing, the Moltensteel Dragons were freaking insane. The reach they provide is enormous and the fact that you can actually CAST them for 4 is a blessing. It survives bolts and delvers and it has evasion. In testing, I already had one game against Maverick where 1 Moltensteel Dragon did 20 damage on its own (Bonfire his mana creatures, then follow up with Moltensteel Dragon to clean up). Moltensteel Dragon is often a 1 or 2 turn clock at most.

    I have been testing Godo for the last 8 months and I know that he's the single best creature that MUD can run. In my current build, I now run 0 Wurmcoil Engines, because the card simply sucks. If you want to win with MUD you need to proof of Swords to Plowshares and counterspells. Godo does insane damage, no really.. Turn 1 Grim Monolith into turn 2 Godo is a beating that not many decks can handle. Godo totally trumps control as double plowshares or Terminus is actually bad against Godo. He's also a rockstar against Jace and outmuscles opposing Stoneforge Mystics.

    I'm of the opinion that the biggest problem of MUD is that people try to run high CC spells because they think they can get away with it, than they get their sol lands wasted or acceleration countered and are unable to get their bombs in play. The cards I mentioned before fix this problem. The above list has already evolved quiet a bit but I can tell you that Bonfire, Moltensteel Dragon and Godo are nothing short of amazing thus far. I still need to test whether or not Rolling Earthquake or Bonfire of the Damned is better, and I also need to test whether or not I might just want to run both. Without Miracle, I have consistently cast Bonfire for X=3/X=4 last night.

  9. #209

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    I have been testing Godo for the last 8 months and I know that he's the single best creature that MUD can run... If you want to win with MUD you need to proof of Swords to Plowshares and counterspells... Godo totally trumps control as double plowshares or Terminus is actually bad against Godo.
    Please explain. How does Godo evade StP without SoLS or SoWP? CoS can make Godo uncounterable, but CoS can make any of our threats uncounterable. And I do not see how Godo trumps Terminus.

    What do you think about Blood Moon?

  10. #210

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    If your opponent plows your Godo, you still have the Skull + Germ token which he fetched. If he plows the Germ too, he has used 2 StP and you can still bounce and replay Skull. Same with Terminus, leaves you still with Skull in play.

  11. #211

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    I thought he was saying Godo literally dodges StP and Terminus, which I didn't understand. But, I figured he was talking about Batterskull. Batterskull is pretty good. I currently have 3 in my deck. I guess I can splash red and try Godo out. 6CMC for two bodies is not bad.

  12. #212
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    I'm testing Summoning trap in sb, 2 summoning traps, it's funny seeing your opponent's face when he countered your metalworker and you used summoning trap that turned out in a blightsteel colossus or sundering titan

  13. #213

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    The rationale behind Godo is that everything in MUD should be resistant to Swords to Plowshares (and Jace). On that note, Wurmcoil got cut from the list. Other cards that didn't quiet make the cut for me that do this are Etched Champion and Duplicant. The biggest play this deck has is Chalice of the Void for 1. Karn Liberated is the most expensive threat I run, and it is also resistant to Swords to Plowshares. Even though MUD has the mana to cast insanely powerful and expensive threats, doesn't mean you are untouchable against tempo plays such as Swords to Plowshares, Spell Pierce or Force of Will. This is the reason why Cavern of Souls and Chalice of the Void play such a big role in the deck. They help you resolve and protect your insanely powerful plays.

    Metalworker: Relying too much on Metalworker is not so smart, because it increases the importance of Swords to Plowshares in your match-ups. This is the reason why I run other acceleration as well. Again, to lower the impact of Swords to Plowshares (and Lightning Bolt). Instead, the focus is on a lower curve. Having castable threats with minimal mana acceleration support helps decrease the value of Spell Pierce, which will surely pick on your Grim Monolith's and Dynamo's.

    Blightsteel Colossus: is really bad. It is a dead draw without an insane Metalworker hand or without an active Kuldotha Forgemaster.

    Scenario 1: Metalworker with Blightsteel Colossus: If you have a hand full of artifacts, do you really care about spending 12 mana for a Blightsteel Colossus? You probably win the game just by throwing your hand on the table anyway.

    Scenario 2: Kuldotha Forgemaster with Blightsteel Colossus: This deck already has major problems fighting RUG. Do you really want to expose yourself to the omnipresent stifle and swords to plowshares like this (meta=Maverick/RUG/Blade/Miracle)? Even if you can do your trick without getting Swords to Plowshares or Stifled, Kuldotha Forgemaster costs 5 mana and metalcraft. Forgemaster has summoning sickness, and Blightsteel Colossus has summoning Sickness too. That means that your BSC will be able to attack 2 turns after you resolve your Kuldotha Forgemaster. Moltensteel Dragon costs 4 mana, and usually finishes the game in 1 or 2 hits, which is quicker, or at worst on-par with BSC (BSC getting blocked sux). It is easier to cast than Kuldotha Forgemaster, doesn't expose you to stifle, and doesnt lead to dead draws with Blightsteel Colossus. It also provides a blocker against Delver. Moltensteel Dragon is a better version of Blightsteel Colossus, and Kuldotha Forgemaster is just, really really bad, especially post-board when you can expect things like Ancient Grudge against you.

    Preboard, my deck totally roflstomps Maverick, but I am having problems against GSZ for Gaddock Teeg. I am still thinking about what I can do to fix this. My best bets right now are Pyroclasm, Arc Slogger and Sudden Shock and Ghostfire (Gets rid of Teeg when the board state = Mother of Runes + Gaddock Teeg, which Pyroclasm doesn't do). Arc-Slogger is really a dirty fix that I don't really like, but it's among the few cards that could really fix this problem.

    Blood Moon: Blood Moon is a card that does nothing. It doesn't kill your opponent, it merely screws with him. I don't like the card as Maverick can GSZ for Qasali and has Noble Hierarch to color fix. Rug will have already resolved a Delver that will just kill you (and throw bolts on you) and UW can easily just fetch a basic to make your life suck. Blood Moon will be a minor set-back to good players at most. I would rather have a real threat, such as Bonfire of the Damned.

    Bonfire of the Damned the entire week and the only time I didn't want to see it was with a Gaddock Teeg out. It was always good, even though my opponent was on 45 life, I was hoping to draw it so I could Bonfire his Jace and his Mystic. The times when there were no planeswalkers or creatures I just used it as a big disintegrate. It was at its best pre-board against Maverick, but got trumped postboard by Gaddock Teeg. Though I didn't play tribal decks, bonfire will surely be awesome against both Goblins, Elves, Merfolk and Death and Taxes.

    The best card against me thus far, not counting Gaddock Teeg, was Vendilion Clique. This card singlehandedly blew me out of the game a couple of times, clique'ing my Godo and beating my Karn Liberated after I activated its -3. I could have outplayed Clique if I was better prepared for the Clique scenario's, but my inexperience against the card with this deck made it very troublesome to deal with. Deciding to +4 or -3 the first time activation is actually quiet important with cards like lightning bolt and vendilion clique in the format.
    Last edited by bruizar; 08-08-2012 at 11:43 AM.

  14. #214

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    What did you replace the Wurmcoil Engines with?

  15. #215
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    The rationale behind Godo is that everything in MUD should be resistant to Swords to Plowshares (and Jace). On that note, Wurmcoil got cut from the list. Other cards that didn't quiet make the cut for me that do this are Etched Champion and Duplicant. The biggest play this deck has is Chalice of the Void for 1. Karn Liberated is the most expensive threat I run, and it is also resistant to Swords to Plowshares. Even though MUD has the mana to cast insanely powerful and expensive threats, doesn't mean you are untouchable against tempo plays such as Swords to Plowshares, Spell Pierce or Force of Will. This is the reason why Cavern of Souls and Chalice of the Void play such a big role in the deck. They help you resolve and protect your insanely powerful plays.

    Metalworker: Relying too much on Metalworker is not so smart, because it increases the importance of Swords to Plowshares in your match-ups. This is the reason why I run other acceleration as well. Again, to lower the impact of Swords to Plowshares (and Lightning Bolt). Instead, the focus is on a lower curve. Having castable threats with minimal mana acceleration support helps decrease the value of Spell Pierce, which will surely pick on your Grim Monolith's and Dynamo's.

    Blightsteel Colossus: is really bad. It is a dead draw without an insane Metalworker hand or without an active Kuldotha Forgemaster.

    Scenario 1: Metalworker with Blightsteel Colossus: If you have a hand full of artifacts, do you really care about spending 12 mana for a Blightsteel Colossus? You probably win the game just by throwing your hand on the table anyway.

    Scenario 2: Kuldotha Forgemaster with Blightsteel Colossus: This deck already has major problems fighting RUG. Do you really want to expose yourself to the omnipresent stifle and swords to plowshares like this (meta=Maverick/RUG/Blade/Miracle)? Even if you can do your trick without getting Swords to Plowshares or Stifled, Kuldotha Forgemaster costs 5 mana and metalcraft. Forgemaster has summoning sickness, and Blightsteel Colossus has summoning Sickness too. That means that your BSC will be able to attack 2 turns after you resolve your Kuldotha Forgemaster. Moltensteel Dragon costs 4 mana, and usually finishes the game in 1 or 2 hits, which is quicker, or at worst on-par with BSC (BSC getting blocked sux). It is easier to cast than Kuldotha Forgemaster, doesn't expose you to stifle, and doesnt lead to dead draws with Blightsteel Colossus. It also provides a blocker against Delver. Moltensteel Dragon is a better version of Blightsteel Colossus, and Kuldotha Forgemaster is just, really really bad, especially post-board when you can expect things like Ancient Grudge against you.

    Preboard, my deck totally roflstomps Maverick, but I am having problems against GSZ for Gaddock Teeg. I am still thinking about what I can do to fix this. My best bets right now are Pyroclasm, Arc Slogger and Sudden Shock and Ghostfire (Gets rid of Teeg when the board state = Mother of Runes + Gaddock Teeg, which Pyroclasm doesn't do). Arc-Slogger is really a dirty fix that I don't really like, but it's among the few cards that could really fix this problem.

    Blood Moon: Blood Moon is a card that does nothing. It doesn't kill your opponent, it merely screws with him. I don't like the card as Maverick can GSZ for Qasali and has Noble Hierarch to color fix. Rug will have already resolved a Delver that will just kill you (and throw bolts on you) and UW can easily just fetch a basic to make your life suck. Blood Moon will be a minor set-back to good players at most. I would rather have a real threat, such as Bonfire of the Damned.

    Bonfire of the Damned the entire week and the only time I didn't want to see it was with a Gaddock Teeg out. It was always good, even though my opponent was on 45 life, I was hoping to draw it so I could Bonfire his Jace and his Mystic. The times when there were no planeswalkers or creatures I just used it as a big disintegrate. It was at its best pre-board against Maverick, but got trumped postboard by Gaddock Teeg. Though I didn't play tribal decks, bonfire will surely be awesome against both Goblins, Elves, Merfolk and Death and Taxes.

    The best card against me thus far, not counting Gaddock Teeg, was Vendilion Clique. This card singlehandedly blew me out of the game a couple of times, clique'ing my Godo and beating my Karn Liberated after I activated its -3. I could have outplayed Clique if I was better prepared for the Clique scenario's, but my inexperience against the card with this deck made it very troublesome to deal with. Deciding to +4 or -3 the first time activation is actually quiet important with cards like lightning bolt and vendilion clique in the format.
    Your posts are interesting since you are making a 'revolution' in mud builds, your build is the most different build i ever saw in this type of deck, since i have a mud and i want to take it to tournaments i would like to know some good cards to change the board to my side, so you are really sure about all this? I mean, mud is all about this (at least now); kuldotha forgemaster/goblin welder/wurmcoil, i don't like batterskull in this deck but the molten steel dragon is interesting, what are your suggestions?

  16. #216

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    ...
    Preboard, my deck totally roflstomps Maverick, but I am having problems against GSZ for Gaddock Teeg. I am still thinking about what I can do to fix this. My best bets right now are Pyroclasm, Arc Slogger and Sudden Shock and Ghostfire (Gets rid of Teeg when the board state = Mother of Runes + Gaddock Teeg, which Pyroclasm doesn't do). Arc-Slogger is really a dirty fix that I don't really like, but it's among the few cards that could really fix this problem....
    And how about Whipflare? it does the same as pyroclasm , but doesn't toast your creatures.. or you can use Serrated arrows.

  17. #217

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Preboard, my deck totally roflstomps Maverick, but I am having problems against GSZ for Gaddock Teeg.
    Duplicant and Phyrexian Metamorph usually works. Just Wasteland their Karakas and you should be set.

  18. #218

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipp2293 View Post
    What did you replace the Wurmcoil Engines with?
    Godo and Batterskull replace Wurmcoil Engine. They are bigger, more resilient bombs against control type decks (smart decks), whereas Wurmcoil Engine is a mere Craw Wurm in the face of Swords to Plowshares and Jace.

    Quote Originally Posted by deadad View Post
    And how about Whipflare? it does the same as pyroclasm , but doesn't toast your creatures.. or you can use Serrated arrows.
    Although Whipflare is nice with Metalworker out, it doesn't beat mother of runes in conjunction with Gaddock Teeg / zenith. They will just give gaddock teeg protection and you will still be locked out. Sudden Shock is the best answer now, since it also deals with Karakas/Teeg. Sudden Shock is also a valid answer to Delver of Secrets, since RUG won't be able to tempo-counter it due to split second.

    Serrated Arrows is sort of nice, since you can pick off a lot of dudes with it. Even if you resolve it before Teeg (shuts serrated arrows down), I'm still afraid that you would give Gaddock Teeg -1/-1 only to have it bounced by Karakas, or to see GSZ for Qasali leaving a 1/1 Teeg to mess your game up.

    Quote Originally Posted by vintersorg View Post
    Your posts are interesting since you are making a 'revolution' in mud builds, your build is the most different build i ever saw in this type of deck, since i have a mud and i want to take it to tournaments i would like to know some good cards to change the board to my side, so you are really sure about all this? I mean, mud is all about this (at least now); kuldotha forgemaster/goblin welder/wurmcoil, i don't like batterskull in this deck but the molten steel dragon is interesting, what are your suggestions?
    Thanks. As a longtime vintage shop player I've been working on artifact decks in legacy for the last several years on the idea that in Vintage, sideboarding strategies are centered around hating dredge and shop, leaving almost no slots for the other match-ups. From that perspective, the absence of a dominant artifact deck in legacy has been the inspiration for me to come up with artifact strategies in legacy. Legacy decks can't sufficiently prey on both dredge and artifacts when the legacy playing field is as diverse as it is. There are only 15 sideboard slots you know :)

    I am currently playing a more heavy red build, which gives me a ton of options. The best thing about the color red (apart from Godo), is that this color has a lot of functional reprints, which allows you to beat any deck there is, if you really want to, you usually have access to atleast 8 cards if you really wanted to. Some examples are:

    Rolling Earthquake + Bonfire of the Damned = GG Tribal meta
    Red Elemental Blast + Pyroblast + Burnout = GG Jace / Delver / Counters (Burnout is especially interesting if you have already resolved a Chalice of the Void for 1. Doesn't kill jace/delver though)
    Ghostfire+Sudden Shock+Phyrexian Metamorph=Take out Teeg under protection of MoM
    Pyrostatic Pillar+Trinisphere+Mindbreak Trap+Thorn of Amethyst+Sphere of Resistance+maindeck Lodestone Golem and Chalice of the Void=GG Storm combo
    Grafdigger's Cage+Tormod's Crypt+Relic of Progenitus=GG graveyards decks (though i wouldnt run cage and relic with chalice, there is also Ravenous Trap)

    Other considerations are Shatttering Spree, Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, Chaos Warp, Lightning Bolt, Cursed Totem, Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker, Goblin Welder and Sulfur Elemental. Now, the issue of the sideboard is that you need to know exactly what you can expect, and fine tune the numbers accordingly. As you can see, there are a lot of angles that you can sideboard into but I still need to work on this and test extensively. I'm currently not totally satisfied with the maindeck yet, but it's getting close. I may end up running more mountains and cutting utility lands.

    On the topic of Batterskull, I would urge you to try it out. The card has been a dominant piece in control decks since its printing. Blade Control is a deck to beat, and this deck has a stronger Batterskull through Godo.


    Quote Originally Posted by L10 View Post
    Duplicant and Phyrexian Metamorph usually works. Just Wasteland their Karakas and you should be set.
    The CC on duplicant is prohibitive to make it consistent though much stronger against a deck that also plays Knight of the Reliquary. I am not sure if that is a problem though, since maverick doesn't counter your mana-artifacts. Phyrexian Metamorph is a better card against Maverick I think, because you can also copy your Batterskull, their Umezawa's Jitte or even a Mother of Runes. That said, if you copy your Godo, you will legend slay them, but atleast you can put an extra equipment into play. A decent play would be to copy godo and put Sword of Light and Shadow (which is in my sideboard) into play, equip it to batterskull and just ride him out to victory gaining 9 life and returning Godo and Metamorph back to your hand through the SoLaS trigger. I will start testing Metamorph the next play session against Maverick.

  19. #219
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    Thanks. As a longtime vintage shop player I've been working on artifact decks in legacy for the last several years on the idea that in Vintage, sideboarding strategies are centered around hating dredge and shop, leaving almost no slots for the other match-ups. From that perspective, the absence of a dominant artifact deck in legacy has been the inspiration for me to come up with artifact strategies in legacy. Legacy decks can't sufficiently prey on both dredge and artifacts when the legacy playing field is as diverse as it is. There are only 15 sideboard slots you know :)

    I am currently playing a more heavy red build, which gives me a ton of options. The best thing about the color red (apart from Godo), is that this color has a lot of functional reprints, which allows you to beat any deck there is, if you really want to, you usually have access to atleast 8 cards if you really wanted to. Some examples are:

    Rolling Earthquake + Bonfire of the Damned = GG Tribal meta
    Red Elemental Blast + Pyroblast + Burnout = GG Jace / Delver / Counters (Burnout is especially interesting if you have already resolved a Chalice of the Void for 1. Doesn't kill jace/delver though)
    Ghostfire+Sudden Shock+Phyrexian Metamorph=Take out Teeg under protection of MoM
    Pyrostatic Pillar+Trinisphere+Mindbreak Trap+Thorn of Amethyst+Sphere of Resistance+maindeck Lodestone Golem and Chalice of the Void=GG Storm combo
    Grafdigger's Cage+Tormod's Crypt+Relic of Progenitus=GG graveyards decks (though i wouldnt run cage and relic with chalice, there is also Ravenous Trap)

    Other considerations are Shatttering Spree, Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, Chaos Warp, Lightning Bolt, Cursed Totem, Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker, Goblin Welder and Sulfur Elemental. Now, the issue of the sideboard is that you need to know exactly what you can expect, and fine tune the numbers accordingly. As you can see, there are a lot of angles that you can sideboard into but I still need to work on this and test extensively. I'm currently not totally satisfied with the maindeck yet, but it's getting close. I may end up running more mountains and cutting utility lands.

    On the topic of Batterskull, I would urge you to try it out. The card has been a dominant piece in control decks since its printing. Blade Control is a deck to beat, and this deck has a stronger Batterskull through Godo.




    The CC on duplicant is prohibitive to make it consistent though much stronger against a deck that also plays Knight of the Reliquary. I am not sure if that is a problem though, since maverick doesn't counter your mana-artifacts. Phyrexian Metamorph is a better card against Maverick I think, because you can also copy your Batterskull, their Umezawa's Jitte or even a Mother of Runes. That said, if you copy your Godo, you will legend slay them, but atleast you can put an extra equipment into play. A decent play would be to copy godo and put Sword of Light and Shadow (which is in my sideboard) into play, equip it to batterskull and just ride him out to victory gaining 9 life and returning Godo and Metamorph back to your hand through the SoLaS trigger. I will start testing Metamorph the next play session against Maverick.
    My problem with godo and batterskull is, the chances to get godo countered in turn 2 are huge, and you are using batterskull only because of him right? So, at the point when godo get's countered, batterskull get's the same utility as wurmcoil engine since you will cast only one card and not two, and wurmcoil is way better than batterskull on its own, but you are testing godo and i don't (didn't find it in my local shop) , how many times you made a godo and he get countered? and at some point your opponents will know your deck and will know that godo is an important piece so he will get a counter waiting for him.

    Against maverick i can see a good match with godo because they don't run blue, but against stoneblade which is a strong deck in the meta and it's very predominant, they have something like 5~10 counters in their decks, that's annoying.

    I really liked moltensteel dragon!, never thought about it, i was used to pump my steel hellkite with metalworker/sol lands to make him bigger like 10/5, but paying life make your mana base intact to use another threats, just have to be careful to not kill yourself hehe.

    About bonfire of the damned, its awesome, i really liked, at some point i thought about fireball haha, pretty basic but with tons of mana to produce... but, when i saw the build, i was taking artifacts to put non artifact cards so its bad for a metalworker/ mana base that isn't entirely red, you suffered with something like this?

    Your thoughts about blightsteel colossus are nice, actually i won a lot of games because of him, lightning greaves in bf, forgemaster turn 2, equip..etc..etc, BUT, its just a detail in the deck, and relying too much in metalworker isn't a good think, i lost games because of it, you hae a good point in this argument (:

    I'm getting huge problems with this new card:omniscience..it's insane, i have a friend with a show and tell deck and i'm getting a lot of problems dealing with him.

    Turn 1: city of traitors, mox diamond, show and tell, omniscience, emrakul, extra turn.

    yeah... and omnscience don't have triggered abilities or nothing that i can deal with it.. with griselbrand i can use revoker but the rest.. and he uses 13~16 counters in his deck.. wtf :s

    Magus of the moon is a good creature for mud i think, but like you said, his ability is just..annoying, could give you some advantage for a few turns but don't know if its worth using him
    Last edited by vintersorg; 08-09-2012 at 10:55 AM.

  20. #220

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    I think counters are the reason why he plays caverns. This + chalice + golem has a good chance to push some cards through...

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