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Thread: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

  1. #261
    bruizar
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quick update on my testing:

    Mouth of Ronom
    As expected, Mouth of Ronom was cut. The card is nice, but there are better lands to play instead. The activation cost is too steep, but what set me off the most is that there are simply better ways to get rid of Gaddock Teeg. I do think my paranoia for Gaddock Teeg is appropriate, since Gaddock Teeg is very strong against U/W Miracles as well. That said, after sideboarding in Grafdigger's Cage / Cursed Totem, Maverick isn't much of a deck anymore. We can also ignore Gaddock Teeg by siding out Karn Liberated and boarding in Cursed Totems. Another cool thing is that Godo ignores Maze of Ith, should they have found that land.

    Phyrexian Metamorph
    Still requires more testing.

    Taurean Mauler
    Didn't have time to test yet. This card reminds me a great deal of Magus of the Moon though. Magus has disruption, while this is simply a 'dumb' beater. My initial feeling is that Moltensteel Dragon is better at dumb beats.

    Arcum Dagsson
    Didn't have time to test this yet, but I am looking forward to it. I want to try either a full on Forgemaster combo deck or splash in an UR-build. Probably not enough creatures to support it, unless I play Mishra's Factory or something.

  2. #262
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    Quick update on my testing:

    Mouth of Ronom
    As expected, Mouth of Ronom was cut. The card is nice, but there are better lands to play instead. The activation cost is too steep, but what set me off the most is that there are simply better ways to get rid of Gaddock Teeg. I do think my paranoia for Gaddock Teeg is appropriate, since Gaddock Teeg is very strong against U/W Miracles as well. That said, after sideboarding in Grafdigger's Cage / Cursed Totem, Maverick isn't much of a deck anymore. We can also ignore Gaddock Teeg by siding out Karn Liberated and boarding in Cursed Totems. Another cool thing is that Godo ignores Maze of Ith, should they have found that land.
    Why are you do scared of Teegs? Karn doesn't really do much in the Maverick matchup and Godo can fetch Battleskull. Mouth of Ronom isn't unnecessary.

    Phyrexian Metamorph
    Still requires more testing.
    I love Metamorph. The dude is versitile. It can rebuy "comes into play" effects, can legendary kill relevant legendary creatures (including Teegs!). I will always suggest for it.

    Taurean Mauler
    Didn't have time to test yet. This card reminds me a great deal of Magus of the Moon though. Magus has disruption, while this is simply a 'dumb' beater. My initial feeling is that Moltensteel Dragon is better at dumb beats.
    Tauren Mauler can come down on turn 2 without putting a lot onto it. The dragon is cool but it requires so much life.

    Arcum Dagsson
    Didn't have time to test this yet, but I am looking forward to it. I want to try either a full on Forgemaster combo deck or splash in an UR-build. Probably not enough creatures to support it, unless I play Mishra's Factory or something.
    I think (not tested him) Arcum would be better in a more lockdown build. Not really sure if you want him in MUD as he can only tutor non-creature artifact. The only one I can see would be mana-rocks, Batterskull and lock pieces.

    Although naming Artificer under Cavern of Souls is something (Goblin Welder, Master Transmuter). Though it sounds too janky for Legacy (maybe for Modern minus Welder)
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  3. #263
    bruizar
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    Why are you do scared of Teegs? Karn doesn't really do much in the Maverick matchup and Godo can fetch Battleskull. Mouth of Ronom isn't unnecessary.
    The biggest reason is because I am running Bonfire of the Damned, Karn Liberated and Batterskull. These all turn off by Gaddock Teeg which is a big issue. That said, Godo, can get Batterskull into play regardless, and I need to cut down on a Karn Liberated anyway. Having Bonfires shut off is a problem though, because Bonfire is a really, really big burn spell in this deck.

    I love Metamorph. The dude is versitile. It can rebuy "comes into play" effects, can legendary kill relevant legendary creatures (including Teegs!). I will always suggest for it.
    I'm inclined to agree due to the presence of cards such as Griselbrand.

    Tauren Mauler can come down on turn 2 without putting a lot onto it. The dragon is cool but it requires so much life.
    My problem with Taurean Mauler is that the opponent can decide not to play too many spells. In other words, they control how big it gets. Once it becomes a problem, it will eat a 1 for 1 removal spell. The card doesn't really solve any issues that the deck has in my opinion. As for the Dragon, you only use life when you are sure you can one-shot him to death. The Phyrexian Manacost costs quiet a bit of life, but so far I am liking him a lot. Evasion helps a bunch. It kind of depends on whether or not there are more aggressive artifacts alternatives available for us.

    I think (not tested him) Arcum would be better in a more lockdown build. Not really sure if you want him in MUD as he can only tutor non-creature artifact. The only one I can see would be mana-rocks, Batterskull and lock pieces.

    Although naming Artificer under Cavern of Souls is something (Goblin Welder, Master Transmuter). Though it sounds too janky for Legacy (maybe for Modern minus Welder)
    Arcum Dagsson is a total paper-construct. Theoretically, he is a cheaper version of Kuldotha Forgemaster that doesn't require you to 3 for 1 yourself, but 1 for 1 yourself, with the limitation that you can't put into play any creatures, and you need to feed him creatures. If Kuldotha Forgemaster is so good, then Arcum Dagsson must have some merit to it as well, just without the additional cost of shattering spree'ing yourself to death.

  4. #264
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    I'd name "human" with cavern for Arcum Dagsson, since it lets me cast Godo too. But I don't really like him. If I'm going to play an utility creature (that needs to untap, and can get plowed / bolted), I'd rather stay monocolor and play Goblin Welder. Or play a real threat.

    My favorite Kuldotha Forgemaster targets were creatures: Blightsteel Colossus, Myr Battlesphere, Sundering Titan, Wurmcoil Engine, Phyrexian Metamorph (copying a Myr Battlesphere tutored the previous turn for some more tokens), and Duplicant. Non-creature targets were usually Spine of Ish Sah and Staff of Domination (with Metalworker and 3+ artifacts in hand), and they were rarely tutored for. Also, I would usually sac non-creatures (like used Grim Monolith, Mox Opal, artifact lands...), while Arcum forces you to sacrifice a creature.

    I want to try a Godo build without Metalworker (since the artifact count will be lower), with Snow-Covered Mountains, Mox Diamond, Wasteland, Ghost Quarter, Buried Ruin, and Crucible of Worlds. Crucible is great against control, and helps you protect your manabase against RUG Delver and other mana denial strategies. Ghost Quarter lets you waste-lock opponents (in combination with wasteland), but can also fetch a mountain when you really need red mana. Add a few Glacial Crevasses in the SB against aggro.

    I've yet to test Taurean Mauler, but I think it could be nice as an early threat. It applies pressure, and forces the opponent to deal with it. If it gets sworded, it's one less sword for my wurmcoil engine :) It's a little like Metalworker. Usually, people kill Metalworker on sight, because they know it can power very dangerous threats very fast.

  5. #265
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Iv been testing a Forgemaster list with a green splash for 2 Sylvan library.
    The splash has been working great. Makes me wonder if there's any other green cards that could work in the deck. I did try Choke in the board but its not as good as I wanted it to be.

    Anybody else ever tryed splashing green? What cards do you think might be good in audition to my Sylvan splash?

  6. #266
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by MTG Junkie View Post
    Iv been testing a Forgemaster list with a green splash for 2 Sylvan library.
    The splash has been working great. Makes me wonder if there's any other green cards that could work in the deck. I did try Choke in the board but its not as good as I wanted it to be.

    Anybody else ever tryed splashing green? What cards do you think might be good in audition to my Sylvan splash?
    It has been done before. It also ran Gaea's Cradle and a critical intensity of creatures o support it (such as Phyrexian Revoker and Spellskite). It also ran Summoning Trap as a means to cheat robots into play.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  7. #267
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Some of the forgemaster builds have left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Getting a hand clogged full of high casting cost artifacts without a metalworker is not a fun day.

    There must be a way to give the deck a better curve and not be as inconsistent. The archetype as a whole needs some streamlining work done.

    If you must insist on playing high casting cost artifacts, the enabler has to stick. I'd make a strong case for cavern of souls' inclusion in the deck based on my testing. Perhaps in the slot of wasteland.

    Yes yes, I know how amazing wasteland is, but somehow the idea sacc'ing a land in a deck trying to ramp mana just seems nuts to me.

    So far I've liked the stompy versions of the deck with wurmcoil, steel hellkite, etc. better. Goblin welder has been derided on this forum, but I think people have been a touch too dismissive of his presence in this archetype.

    We'll see how the lists hold up in real life when I get the rest of the cards for multiple versions of this deck in the upcoming weeks.

  8. #268
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ecstatic_Conch View Post
    Some of the forgemaster builds have left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Getting a hand clogged full of high casting cost artifacts without a metalworker is not a fun day.
    There must be a way to give the deck a better curve and not be as inconsistent. The archetype as a whole needs some streamlining work done. [/quote]

    I have only dedicated one-two slots for Forgemaster (I am running 3). This way, you avoid that awkward hand of having a high casting cost artifacts. And I would never activate a Forgemaster unless my board consists of non-threats (such as extra Mox, tapped Monoliths, Metalworker with an empty hand)

    If you must insist on playing high casting cost artifacts, the enabler has to stick. I'd make a strong case for cavern of souls' inclusion in the deck based on my testing. Perhaps in the slot of wasteland.
    I have been running Cavern of Souls with no regrets.

    Yes yes, I know how amazing wasteland is, but somehow the idea sacc'ing a land in a deck trying to ramp mana just seems nuts to me.
    The Wastelands are there for getting rid of your opponent's utility lands (such as Maze of Ith) or to deny your opponent a color/mana once you have board control or a means to cast artifacts with mana artifacts. I would never use Wasteland in the early game unless I have a turn 2 Wurmcoil/some other hard to deal with threat. I wouldn't even Wasteland if I have Metalworker unless I have already got Metalworker's value.

    So far I've liked the stompy versions of the deck with wurmcoil, steel hellkite, etc. better. Goblin welder has been derided on this forum, but I think people have been a touch too dismissive of his presence in this archetype.
    I think Welder still has a shot (along with Caverns) in the Stompy build because of the utility it brings but right now, I wouldn't recommend relying on it. (like my previous combo-centric build)

    We'll see how the lists hold up in real life when I get the rest of the cards for multiple versions of this deck in the upcoming weeks.
    Good luck with that.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  9. #269
    bruizar
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    On Cavern of Souls
    I love this card. It gives the deck so much more game against counters. It's great that you are able to resolve your bombs AND have access to colors for a splash.

    On Wasteland
    I agree with what you're saying. I have cut Wasteland before and it has proven to be more consistent. My Godo build already trumps Karakas and Maze of Ith (2 attack phases, and more equipment when you bounce Godo), so the need to turn off utility land is already reduced. Wasteland can be a liability when you need to use it for mana, and RUG wastes your Wasteland instead. Mountains have thus far been really good for me, but perhaps some other lands can provide greater utility. I think a lot of MUD players are too greedy with their utility lands, and they get punished for it by cards like Wasteland and Price of Progress.

    Consistency Issues of Forgemaster
    Consistency issues are the main reason why stompy decks simply don't work. We all know that we can go broken sometimes, but can we actually win in a 2 day tournament with MUD? Not if we're not consistent in our draws. This is one of the core reasons why I have tried to focus on getting the mana-curve down. I still believe that Bonfire of the Damned is the best outlet for extra mana, even if that would be played only as a 2-off.

    On Welder
    I see what you're saying. We should not forget that goblin welder is THE goblin welder. One card that I personally really enjoy playing is Razormane Masticore. The 5/5 First strike body with a built in bolt is very nice especially against maverick. The problem of Masticores however is that this deck already draws horribly and getting it plowed after pitching something to it exposes you very hard. I have also thought of cards such as Solemn Simulacrum, but the card seems way too fair for this format. At this point, I don't see where Goblin Welder fits in the MUD-puzzle. Faithless Looting strikes me as not broken enough for Goblin Welder, unless you're also playing things such as Crucible of Worlds and perhaps Barbarian Ring. What is the best way to set up or otherwise utilize Goblin Welder right now?

  10. #270
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    http://www.twitch.tv/southfloridamagic/b/328651213

    1:40 is a fitting example of why Kuldotha Forgemaster is not a good card for this deck. No offense to the player, but please watch it for educational purposes, so we can all learn from this. My goal is to get an artifact deck into the top tier of Legacy, and anything that helps us get closer to achieving that is worth watching.

    Here are the play errors that caused him to lose pretty badly.
    1) Sack Crucible of Worlds instead of Mishra's Factory for Forgemaster when he has mana to activate his land, and then replay it next turn with Crucible
    2) Grab Blightsteel Colossus instead of Sundering Titan. S. Titan would have still caught a Path to Exile, but at least he would leave the game state with Crucible + Mishra's Factory + Wasteland and get an extra mountain himself, with no basics for the Zoo player. 1/1 Nacatl isn't going to kill you.

    He would eventually still die, because the Qasali Pridemage would shoot the Crucible and the Nacatl would trade with the Factory/any bolt.

    Now, I don't have his decklist, but I can imagine his options were either:
    Wurmcoil Engine
    Sundering Titan
    Spine of Ish-Sah
    Blightsteel Colossus
    Steel Hellkite
    and an off chance on a Myr Battlesphere

    Wurmcoil Engine and Steel Hellkite would have eaten a PTE the same way Blightsteel Colossus did.

    Spine of Ish-Sah could have taken out 1 permanent, if that would happen, the Forgemaster would catch the PTE and he would still have 3 for 1'd himself with no way to get rid of his Spine.

    I already discussed sundering titan

    Myr Battlesphere would have been an interesting play, because it would force him to choose between using his PTE on Kuldotha Forgemaster and to Myr Battlesphere. If the PTE targeted Kuldotha Forgemaster, the Myr Battlesphere could race the Zoo player. If the Zoo player targeted the Myr Battlesphere, the MUD player could activate his Kuldotha Forgemaster again, but this time against 1 Path to Exile less.

    In hindsight, depending on his list, he would have had to play Myr Battlesphere to win this game with the Kuldotha Forgemaster setup. This means it requires the dedication of yet another silverbullet-slot. The Sundering Titan might have also saved his ass, but we don't really know.
    So I finally get a chance to watch the clip. He should have have fetched for Sundering Titan. The reason:

    He played Crucible, then replayed his Wasteland and used it to target one of his opponent's land. From there, what he could have done is:

    - Sacrificed Forgemaster, Mox and Furnace to grab Sundering Titan. This will destroy all his opponent's mana while shrinking the Nacatl. If his opponent did have the land next turn (which he didn't), then he will for sure Path to Exiled the Titan (destroying the new land that he played). While he still has Ancient Tomb and Factory. He still has enough lands to amass threats (and can still recur his lands via Crucible) while leaving his opponent behind on lands. Worst case scenario, he can keep attacking with his animated Factory until he draws into more threats.

    Its not that Forgemaster is not good, its just people don't know how to play it properly. Its one of those cards that punishes you if you don't play it properly.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  11. #271
    bruizar
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Just brainstorming in here. Sorry if I'm pulling the thread in a lot of different directions, but I feel that there is still so much left to explore in the archetype. I've been thinking about Cavern of Souls on Artificer.

    Stoneforge Mystic and Goblin Welder are both powerful artificers that work well with Batterskull and Swords. I'm wondering if there is a possibility of an equipment heavy deck utilizing:

    4x Chalice of the Void
    4x SFM
    3x Goblin Welder
    2x Godo
    2/3x Batterskull
    1x Sword of Fire and Ice
    1x Sunforger for sideboard stuff stuff? (Boil, Red Elemental Blast, Orim's Chant seem good.

    Consequently, there is also Stonehewer Giant, but I'd rather stick to Godo, Bandit Warlord for it's immediate impact and strength against spot removal/jace. Cavern doesn't tap for SFM's ability, so a fetch base with Arid Mesa, Plateau and 1 Plains/1 Mountain might be required, but having SFM in the deck sounds pretty strong.

  12. #272
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    about the use of prototype portal.

    I've just goldfish this list


    4 ancient tomb
    4 wasteland
    4 darksteel citadel
    4 city of traitors
    4 lotus petal

    3 sensei's divining top
    4 lodestone golem
    4 phyrexian metamorph
    2 batterskull
    4 smokestack
    4 chalice of the void
    4 tangle wire
    4 metalworker
    3 voltaic key
    4 grim monolith
    4 prototype portal


    It appears we can use a portal imprinted with the metamorph to copy himself. I find myself to use this technique in order to play the tops and keys the chalice forbid me to.
    I believe lotus petal and metalworker can be played along the portal with some efficiency.

  13. #273

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    I am loving MUD Stompy right now. I tried it last week for the first time and got 4-1. This week I got 5-0, splitting the pot. I am the only person in my meta playing MUD, so the surprise factor is there. Most people probably assume I play Meandeck variant as well. Here is my list. It is similar to Fropper's and Zirath's.

    // Lands
    4 Wasteland
    4 Rishadan Port
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Mishra's Factory
    2 Buried Ruin

    // Ramp
    4 Thran Dynamo
    4 Grim Monolith
    3 Metalworker
    3 Voltaic Key

    // Beats
    4 Wurmcoil Engine
    4 Lodestone Golem
    3 Steel Hellkite
    3 Batterskull

    // Tools
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Staff of Nin
    3 Phyrexian Revoker

    // Sideboard
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    2 All is Dust
    2 Karn Liberated
    3 Cursed Totem
    3 Torpor Orb
    4 Trinisphere

    The MVPs are definitely Rishadan Port and Staff of Nin.

    While Staff of Nin does cost six mana to cast, the reach it provides from the extra card draw and ability to kill relevant creatures in the current meta is absolutely worth the investment. It also ticks off UW Miracle dudes because even with Terminus, I can harass them or Jace every turn, one point at a time, and my deck has the better clock. Staff of Nin also goes nicely with Voltaic Key.

    Rishadan Port needs little explanation. It is an absolute house in the early game when you try to build your board state and late game when you lock your opponent down. With a couple Ports and a Thran Dynamo, it can be a hard lock. It has also been one of my favorite cards since the inception of Vial Goblins, and later on, DnT.

    I am also loving Torpor Orb in my SB. Firstly, it kills goblins, strait up. It shuts down Matron, Ringleader, SGC, Stingscourger, MWM, and the Tuktuk Scrapper they would naturally side in. It is also good against Stoneblade because shuts down Mystic, Snapcaster (reduce permission count), and Vendilion Clique (who can ruin our gameplan). The only problem is if I get Torpor Orb out before I getting Revoker against Jace, but the trade is worth it. It is similar to the dichotomy of having both Chalice and Key.

    The only deck I am currently uncomfortable with is against Rock. It was the deck I lost to last week. The combination of creature removals, hand disruption, and land disruption can create an unrecoverable state. And if they get out an early Gaddock Teeg, it can basically seal the deal, as I have no reliable solution against it.

    Loving the deck so far.

    Just brainstorming in here. Sorry if I'm pulling the thread in a lot of different directions, but I feel that there is still so much left to explore in the archetype.
    Keep at it bro. New ideas are always welcome.

    How would your customize your mana base to include both white and red sources? Last time you said we are too greedy with our mana base and can die from Wastelands and Price of Progress, but wouldn't the inclusion of Plateau be the same? How are you liking SoFI?

  14. #274
    bruizar
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    I have to say, besides the mono-red godo build I am playing now (my current optimal godo list), I see the colorless version as the only viable alternative for a tournament right now. The 2 decks are different animals, but I wouldn't play the meandeck variant over either of these decks.

    Rishadan Port needs little explanation. It is an absolute house in the early game when you try to build your board state and late game when you lock your opponent down. With a couple Ports and a Thran Dynamo, it can be a hard lock. It has also been one of my favorite cards since the inception of Vial Goblins, and later on, DnT.
    Rishadan Port is a card that's very difficult to evaluate, just like Meddling Mage. Sometimes, you just don't know what kind of hell you unleash because you don't have that information. I value my colored splash too much to support it. In my opinion, Rishadan Port is best when you have something like Lodestone Golem out.

    While Staff of Nin does cost six mana to cast, the reach it provides from the extra card draw and ability to kill relevant creatures in the current meta is absolutely worth the investment. It also ticks off UW Miracle dudes because even with Terminus, I can harass them or Jace every turn, one point at a time, and my deck has the better clock. Staff of Nin also goes nicely with Voltaic Key.
    Staff of Nin is a very interesting card that I really sort of dismissed due to its mana cost. I can see how the card can be good, because for that 6 mana, at least it cantrips and accelerates into more business while also pressuring utility creatures, planeswalkers and life totals, even if it's just 1 damage a turn. 1 damage a turn is half an ancient tomb, and we all know how painful ancient tomb can be :). I would have to try it out before I can say much about it. It's not my kind of card, but I see how it can be great when you actually land it and you're not being SnT'd to death or something. In a very different build, I played Granite Shard, so I know that 1 damage + voltaic key can be very strong.

    I am also loving Torpor Orb in my SB. Firstly, it kills goblins, strait up. It shuts down Matron, Ringleader, SGC, Stingscourger, MWM, and the Tuktuk Scrapper they would naturally side in. It is also good against Stoneblade because shuts down Mystic, Snapcaster (reduce permission count), and Vendilion Clique (who can ruin our gameplan). The only problem is if I get Torpor Orb out before I getting Revoker against Jace, but the trade is worth it. It is similar to the dichotomy of having both Chalice and Key.
    I hate the fact that Torpor Orb kills my Batterskulls and Godos. Otherwise I'd definitely consider running it. It fits the curve of the deck and is great against Stoneblade and Goblins yeah.

    The only deck I am currently uncomfortable with is against Rock. It was the deck I lost to last week. The combination of creature removals, hand disruption, and land disruption can create an unrecoverable state. And if they get out an early Gaddock Teeg, it can basically seal the deal, as I have no reliable solution against it.
    Gaddock Teeg is something I can finally put to rest. Right now, I am playing 2 Duplicant (over Phyrexian Metamorph) and 2 Mouth of Ronoms. In hindsight, I had more than enough mountains to support my Godo's and Bonfires, and even though Mouth of Ronom usually does nothing, it is an answer to a card that would otherwise cripple the deck. I have yet to find a better land in the mono-R build, even though Mouth sounds a little janky. In my list, I would rather have mouth than wasteland or Rishadan Port, because mouth improves my matchups against problem cards. There is one other land I have added since Mouth of Ronom. Blinkmoth Nexus. I believe Blinkmoth Nexus is much better right now than Mishra's Factory, because Blinkmoth Nexus can stall Delver. RUG Delver usually tries to land a first turn Delver into a bunch of counters and ride the delver to victory. When you land a Blinkmoth Nexus, he simply can't pressure you with Delver of Secrets unless he spends his bolts / Wastelands when he finds them. When tempo needs to dig for answers, it loses its tempo and is forced to play your game which gives you a better chance of winning. Mouth of Ronom killed a delver last night as well, after resolving chalice for 1 and chalice for 2. I won that game :-)

    Keep at it bro. New ideas are always welcome.

    How would your customize your mana base to include both white and red sources? Last time you said we are too greedy with our mana base and can die from Wastelands and Price of Progress, but wouldn't the inclusion of Plateau be the same?
    A double colored manabase is stretching it and I'm not even sure if I can make that playable in the first place. I guess I would start with something like:
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cavern of Souls
    3 Arid Mesa
    3 Plateau
    1 Mountain
    1 Plains
    2 Blinkmoth Nexus / Wasteland/Ghost Quarter

    I would run at least 2 Crucible of Worlds to get more value out of my fetch lands. Buried Ruin wouldn't be neccesary with Goblin Welder. Smokestack would be nice since I have both Goblin Welder, Crucible of Worlds and Batterskull to abuse it. Not sure about Ghost Quarter yet, but it can help with color fixing as well as disrupt a little bit. However, it's not a wasteland lock against decks other than RUG. As you can see, this mana base has troubles. Perhaps Flagstones of Trokair is a better way to ensure my white activation for Stoneforge Mystic, since it also works with Smokestack and I can just keep Wastelands in the deck. This manabase would need some serious thought that I haven't put enough in yet.

    How are you liking SoFI?
    SofI is actually pretty good with Blinkmoth Nexus which I'm running right now. At first, I had both SoFI and SoLaS main, but a friend of mine suggested that if I were to run 2 swords, that I should run 2 SoFI's main and 1 SoLaS in the side. I'm liking SoFI more than Lightning Greaves because Godo with haste gets chumped by nimble mongoose, and I don't like that :-). Also, rather run swords in a threat light deck than jitte.



    Quote Originally Posted by Firefraise View Post
    about the use of prototype portal.

    I've just goldfish this list


    4 ancient tomb
    4 wasteland
    4 darksteel citadel
    4 city of traitors
    4 lotus petal

    3 sensei's divining top
    4 lodestone golem
    4 phyrexian metamorph
    2 batterskull
    4 smokestack
    4 chalice of the void
    4 tangle wire
    4 metalworker
    3 voltaic key
    4 grim monolith
    4 prototype portal


    It appears we can use a portal imprinted with the metamorph to copy himself. I find myself to use this technique in order to play the tops and keys the chalice forbid me to.
    I believe lotus petal and metalworker can be played along the portal with some efficiency.
    I actually like this prototype portal list quiet a bit. I think that you might want to find place for Etched Champion to this list. Prototype Portal and 4 Darksteel Citadels enable metalcraft quickly, and copying Etched Champions will simply make the board go out of hand.

  15. #275
    Keep Calm and Brainstorm
    (nameless one)'s Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    At Torpor Orb:

    It will not affect Phyrexian Revoked or Phyrexian Metamorph because their abilities are not triggered abilities. "As ~ enters the battlefield" effects do not use the stack.

    It also won't affect Batterskull since Batterskull isn't a creature.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  16. #276

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Hey, thanks (nameless one). I did not know the "As ~ enters the battlefield" effects do not use the stack.

  17. #277
    bruizar
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Fire fraise:
    Perhaps you could try -1 key, -2 smokestack +3 etched champion in your list.

    Champions are a bit like ensnaring bridges,mbut the problem used to be that isn't a clock.

    You can make a whole swarm and equip Batterskull so you should be fine I think.

    Also noteworthy for your list is sculpting Steel, should you find yourself running out of copy effects. I really don't see how that card can be squeezed in right now, as the list is already very tight, but still.

    How are the lotus petals for you? It increases your 'sol lands' hands, so turn 1 Chalice must be more consistent for you, but it's still a one shot effect. With so little lands, wouldn't it be a better idea to run 4 extra artifact land or just 4 extra buried ruin or something?

  18. #278
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    I like the champion idea.

    The reason for petals is chalice, my meta is very vulnerable to it's effect. But after a few goldfishes I don't think they're better than extra lands. I suppose seat of the synod should fit, as it let us play metamorph without the pain.

    The list is tight but I think your suggested changes and maybe +1 sculpting steel -1 metalworker, makes a good alternative.

    The inclusion of seat of synod makes me think about a light blue splash, running fabricate in order to imprint or copy the artifact we need the most at the moment. I can't see what to cut though. Maybe it is more efficent in a U/w MUD/artificer modern version.

    It makes me dream about a Mishra deck...

  19. #279
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    So I finally get a chance to watch the clip. He should have have fetched for Sundering Titan. The reason:

    He played Crucible, then replayed his Wasteland and used it to target one of his opponent's land. From there, what he could have done is:

    - Sacrificed Forgemaster, Mox and Furnace to grab Sundering Titan. This will destroy all his opponent's mana while shrinking the Nacatl. If his opponent did have the land next turn (which he didn't), then he will for sure Path to Exiled the Titan (destroying the new land that he played). While he still has Ancient Tomb and Factory. He still has enough lands to amass threats (and can still recur his lands via Crucible) while leaving his opponent behind on lands. Worst case scenario, he can keep attacking with his animated Factory until he draws into more threats.

    Its not that Forgemaster is not good, its just people don't know how to play it properly. Its one of those cards that punishes you if you don't play it properly.
    The opponent had an untapped Plains. If he Forgemasters for Sundering Titan, he could still float a white and Path it. Don't get me wrong, I think Sundering was correct, but the opponent still had a chance to Path it on that turn.

    Also a mistake he did was Wastelanding the Taiga. He should've just used the Wasteland to activate the Factory, then Forgemastered the Mox Diamond, Great Furnace, and Factory to get Titan. The Titan can blow up all the Zoo player's lands, then gets Pathed, but leaves the MUD player with a Forgemaster + Crucible.

  20. #280

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    @ Firefraise, I like your list. I tried it last night at Cockatrice and did fairly well. Had you considered putting in two Karn, Silver Golem? Turning your locks into beaters can be pretty good. You can also turn Batterskull into a solid 5/5 beater if the germ token dies before sending Batterskull back to your hand.

    The 2 decks are different animals, but I wouldn't play the meandeck variant over either of these decks.
    Actually, I can see myself playing Kuldotha Forgemaster. I won't play a full set, but two copies makes a nice tutor. A late game Metalworker or Grim Monolith loses value, and don't mind getting an extra beater or Staff of Nin. I don't see myself playing the traditional Meandeck list though.

    Rishadan Port is a card that's very difficult to evaluate, just like Meddling Mage. Sometimes, you just don't know what kind of hell you unleash because you don't have that information. I value my colored splash too much to support it. In my opinion, Rishadan Port is best when you have something like Lodestone Golem out.
    Rishadan Port is good because there are a lot of times I have open mana at my disposal, and I'd rather be doing something productive than just passing my turn, especially in the late game. I am also not a fan of just laying down all of my threats. If I have one or two beaters in the field, I would rather deny mana than putting down another Wurmcoil, because most decks can't handle our fatties anyways.

    Staff of Nin is a very interesting card that I really sort of dismissed due to its mana cost. I can see how the card can be good, because for that 6 mana, at least it cantrips and accelerates into more business while also pressuring utility creatures, planeswalkers and life totals, even if it's just 1 damage a turn. 1 damage a turn is half an ancient tomb, and we all know how painful ancient tomb can be :). I would have to try it out before I can say much about it. It's not my kind of card, but I see how it can be great when you actually land it and you're not being SnT'd to death or something. In a very different build, I played Granite Shard, so I know that 1 damage + voltaic key can be very strong.
    Against most blue mages I fought, they rare counter Staff of Nin on G1. They either think I am baiting them or think I have better cards in store. Three turn later, they realize their mistake when I am able to kill all their creatures but Stoneforge Mystic, and gain massive card advantage. Six mana is not hard to come by, considering that I replaced my Karn Liberated / All is Dust slot for it.

    I believe Blinkmoth Nexus is much better right now than Mishra's Factory, because Blinkmoth Nexus can stall Delver.
    RUG is not a matchup I am scared at all. Trinisphere and Chalice are devistating against them. Factory does a nice job at stalling Mongoose. I also like Factory because I can treat him as a early beater. The only time I am really scared is if the have a Price of Progress in the SB.

    At first, I had both SoFI and SoLaS main, but a friend of mine suggested that if I were to run 2 swords, that I should run 2 SoFI's main and 1 SoLaS in the side.
    I'd rather have both SoFI and SoLaS to bet honest. With us running Ancient Tomb, a little life is all it takes to victory. SoLaS is also a good way to get back the creatures that got countered early on and is probably better than SoFI against UW Stoneblade. We can block Batterskull all day without them getting Lifelink and laugh at StP at the same time. Besides, having both in the MD provides a better toolbox for Godo. I'd rather have 1 SoFI and 1 SoLaS MD, and 1 SoFI SB.

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