Endbringer is an interesting one. May have to try it out. Might take it out the Staff of Nin for it. Plus since I play 4 Caverns, Endbringer could be uncounterable.
So I'm curious what is the gameplan vs 12 post? I hate that matchup although I realize now one critical mistake. I have needles in board and I name Sensei's Divining Top when I really should be naming Candelabra of Tawnos. That card makes their Cloudposts better than ours.
But the matchup still feels really really bad.
No, I disagree that the match-up is really really bad. I'm 6-0 against 12-Post. I recommend to practice the match-up a lot. Chalice@1 is great. Don't Wasteland them when they have a green open, unless you have Chalice. Oh, and Chalice@1 counters Repeal targeting Chalice! Aside from Chalice, Wastelock with Crucible or Karn lock after game 1. Take them down early game or mid game, don't let them get to late game. Lightning Greaves are great here. Forgemaster is always good for their Show and Tell (if you can activate it on your turn). Watch out for potential Trickbinds after Game 1.Originally Posted by Wilkin
I've been wondering how useful Devoid/Eldrazi actually are in MUD, since they can't be searched up with a Forgemaster. I guess it'd take Karn or Ugin's slot?
Ok thanks. Hmm...ok thanks. I currently don't play Crucible in the 75, but Karn is there in mine. It's true, I don't have much experience vs 12-post. I think I should have named Candelabra with Needle, at least it makes the Cloudposts less awkward.
And yeah I guess another thing to consider for Endbringer is that Lodestones make it more expensive. Right now I play 2 Staff of Domination, 1 Staff of Nin and 1 Coercive Portal. I may try Endbringer but it won't be at the expense of Ugin. I currently play 2 main and I love it. Thinking of getting another Ugin but they are still pretty expensive. You are right though, Rayek, that the artifact count should be at a certain level so I'm probably going to wait and see how other people do with the card before trying it out myself.
Endbringer is very interesting, but not being an artifact feels a bit troublesome with the walkers already being colorless. Maybe this card would fit the Legends build more. Theb again this would slowly warp into a prison colorless Turbo Eldrazi deck.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Endbringer is a legit card, I am going to eventually work it into my list. Like you say though, he takes the emphasis off of the artifacts, but I think this is a good thing. With all the wastelands currently being played I think Forgemaster MUD, with its slew of high CMC stuff is a lot weaker than it used to be. I truly feel that deck loses a ton of value from not being able to reliably hardcast the Forgemaster targets.
Im playing up in Newington on the 9th using a ravager build for now, but with the printing of Endbringer I may have to switch focus. Endbringer is a card that can really shore up some matchups, he pings, he draws cards, he prevents things from attacking or blocking, and he only costs 6. This type of utility is just too much for me to overlook, although he does not synergize with things like metalworker, forgemaster or ravager.
I think Endbringer could be worth playing in a forgemaster list as well. I guess the list can suffer a few less artifacts, although I guess we're at crossroads at this point. Nice thing is that it draws cards, so he can still help you get other artifacts
I'm very very curious what will come next in the coming weeks. I expect more nice goodies to come up!
endbringer offers a huge amount of flexibility and value, I am considering playing it as a potential 3-of to replace ugins until I can get my hands on them. It is obviously less of an immediate game swing but provides lasting value and could add stability to the MUD game plan when games go long. I am really interested in the combat interaction of the temporary pacifism effect - I feel that it could make combat exchanges much easier for MUD while also holding down beaters on your opponent's turn. Stifle is becoming more prevalent but is usually held for the forgemaster as I've learned in the past. The ping could hold down planeswalkers and make the DnT matchup potentially easier. Definitely testing it out
Hi MUDslingers. What are the chances of Mana Vault's unbanning in Legacy? With the current shells of every deck right now, it doesn't seem like it fits into any. Even in MUD, it contradicts with Chalice.
A deck with Mana Vault has a much higher chance of landing a T1 Trinisphere or Lodestone Golem. Thus not required to run Chalice (main at least). Also Voltaic Key would be really strong option here. The deck would be to broken. Unbanning Mana Vault would not happen.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Robot Santa smiles to us again.
This one answers delver/pyromancer/SFM/revokers, is less conditional than titan's presence, but loses the ability to deal with bigger creatures.
I guess the question becomes: is this better than Ratchet Bomb?Robot Santa smiles to us again.
This one answers delver/pyromancer/SFM/revokers, is less conditional than titan's presence, but loses the ability to deal with bigger creatures.
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Mana Vault is never likely to come off the banned list. A full playset of Mana Vaults would push combodecks over the top.
They have different purposes, because ratchet bomb is easier to answer (stifle,revoker, needle, etc) and slower, you can't blow a stoneforge mystic before they bring a batterskull with it or a goblin lackey before it wins the game. This one is more flexible as you can answer an equipment activation, kill manlands, pump your wurmcoil for extra lifegain or reduce a goyf's toughness to trade or just as extra reach if you have a beater going. It's worth noting it also dodges Apostle's Blessing although it's more commonly seen in modern.
Last edited by Silverflame; 12-28-2015 at 10:25 PM.
It's worth nothing that there is a critical mass of spot removal available to us in colorless builds now between Dismember and Contortion. Spot removal is not a problem for MUD anymore and we can aggressively board if needed. The +3/-3 addresses utility creatures mostly, which is fine because the larger threats are outclassed by the high CC robots we run anyway. It's the utility creatures we should care about.
@ Mana Vault: Wishful thinking, I guess.
We have an additional fragile combo from Oathkeeper: Eldrazi Mimic and Phyrexian Dreadnought.
Last edited by darkgh0st; 12-29-2015 at 02:48 PM.
Can I have a look at that list? It's always good to have more input.On the new cards: I really like Ruins of Sea Gate too! It's great in my Bridge-control setup with Bottled Cloister!
P.S. Ninja'ed!
4 Metalworker
4 Karn Liberated
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Bottled Cloister
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Staff of Domination
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Mishra’s Factory
3 Vesuva
4 Wasteland
Sideboard
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Powder Keg
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Trinisphere
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Wurmcoil Engine
This is my current control list, I'm not entirely sure what to do with it exactly yet since Endbringer could have a place here as well...
With lots of new Eldrazis coming out with good power-to-CC ratios and Eldrazi having 2 extra Sol Lands, I'll soon be putting MUD away. I'm counting between one to three more tournaments. It's been good here. Thanks everyone.
You really think these Eldrazi's are going to outclass MUD in legacy?
I've done some testing with the "four" sol lands but it's wasn't so powerful. I think Metalworker and friends still beat the Eldrazi family..... for now
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