[Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

[Barsoom]

Ensnaring Bridge is one of the best cards against MUD.

Not against Legend MUD. I'm playing 2x Bridge myself as you can see from my list few posts above; if Eldrazi Stompy really becomes a real Legacy deck the number probably should be upped as MGB said.

[Rikter]

ELDRAZI MU REPORT/WRAPING WAIL EVAL

ELDRAZI

So I played in a 96 man Legacy event this weekend (5-2, 19th place and breakered out of the money). I got the Eldrazi matchup in the middle rounds (there was a fair amount of Eldrazi decks on the day actually, from what I saw wandering the room).

I was anticipating that people were going to be playing Eldrazi, especially with the 20k coming up so I made sure I had stuff in the board. Against Eldrazi I boarded into 2x Ensnaring Bridge and 2x Torpor Orb, 2x Phyrexian Revoker, 2x Ratchet bombs taking out 2x Ugin the Spirit Dragon, 2x Trinisphere, 4x Chalice.

Explanations:
+2 Ensnaring Bridge because unless they are playing Kozilek the great distortion (he was) they just can't get it off the table
+2 Torpor Orb because taking away ETB triggers does wonders for slowing down Eldrazi.

+2 revoker Because the list I saw was running Jitte and this is a card that can cause a lot of problems if it gets going
+2 Ratchet bomb, because it clears out Endless One and other random hate

-4 Chalice because it's less than stellar against them
-2 Ugin because even with orbs I would rather have sundering titan to block than a reusable lightning bolt that can't actually sweep the board and doesn't do anything to handle their big guys. Some people disagreed with me, but I feel like having the blocker is better.
-2 trinisphere because even though it can do work vs eye, but its only at its best on the first turn or two.

Results:
Torpor Orb did so much work, it really does a lot to slow them down. Eldrazi Mimic is pretty shitty when it's just a vanilla 2/1, and with orb out thought knot seer is just a 4/4 for 4 that lets you draw a card when you kill it

Bridge was amazing, its a hard card for them to deal with

Revoker was only OK, but jitte is just such a pain in the ass if it gets going that I had to bring them in. I don't know if he boarded out of jitte, I didn't see it in the SB games

Ratchet bomb was another card that did pretty well. It wasn't insane, but the card has utility and I liked it.

I ended up winning the match. I can see how this would be a tough matchup sometimes, since the deck can go wide and it can hit hard, fast. In the future I may consider bringing in the dismembers as well. Had I not seen jitte I probably would have brought in 2 dismember instead of 2 revokers.

WARPING WAIL

Warping Wail was awesome all day. It was relevant every time I cast it, and I used all three modes throughout the day, a summary of which is below:

1) Won round 1 against esper control by warping wail end of turn for a scion, allowing me to cast sundering titan on my turn, locking him out of the game

2) Won against burn by stabilizing at 1 life, and wailing his lethal rift bolt before winning

3) Won a game against eldrazi by EOT warping wail on phyrexian revoker that was locking down my forgemaster

4) Won a game against eldrazi where 2x warping wails shut him off of his first two mimics and defused a potentially explosive board state

5) Won against bug delver by warping wail EOT on deathrite followed by wasteland. Lodestone sealed the deal.

There were other instances of wailing random creatures, but the above lines all contributed big time to winning games.

In my limited run, I consider warping wail the truth. It may seem like wail is a little narrow vs burn, but I have nothing in the board for them anyways and its not dead. Wail did a lot of work, I don't think I ever boarded it out. I currently play 2 main, and I think I am fine with that for now since I don't have another slot. As it is I made room for these two by taking out 2x trinisphere. Some people may think this is crazy, but trinisphere is typically my first card out, and is a terrible top deck. The versatility of wail across a large portion of the field is worth it I think.

[Stuart]

Nice work, Rikter! Glad to see we can handle Eldrazi, even if it's ugly.

#

I've been taking a break from MUD to play some Enchantress (and doing horribly with it, I might add ). It might just be my meta, but it seems like there's a lot of midrange going around: I'm seeing lots of Jund, Shardless, Aggroloam, etc. Those are generally my least favorite matchups, as they're just super ugly and grindy. Are other people experiencing an influx of midrange, and if so, any tips on handling it with MUD? My store's doing a 1K next month that I might play MUD in, so I want to get tuned up.

My thoughts so far:
- Ugin is an all-star in these games, so I'm trying a Karn in my sideboard as an extra planeswalker (who can get around Needle/Revoker naming Ugin). However, I'm also debating just adding an extra Ugin to either the main or board.
- Right now I run 2 Coercive Portal in the main, which is great against midrange. I was thinking of putting an extra 2 in the board. Thoughts?
- Crucible has been an underwhelming defensive tool for me, as Deathrite just eats the lands out of my graveyard before I can recur them. I think I want to leave it in the board, but only bring it in when I can use it aggressively.
- I've been running 2 Thorn of Amethyst that I was thinking of dropping for either Coercive Portal or Tsabo's Web. If I cut it, I'll still have 4 Lodestone, 4 Chalice, 4 Trinisphere, 2 Warping Wail, and 2 Tormod's as anti-storm tech. That seems sufficient, right?
- Generally speaking, it feels like midrange decks are very good at stopping our combo wins: they can Waste us off early mana, kill Metalworker via PFire, Abrupt Decay, etc, and they have lots of tools like Null Rod and Revoker to shut off Forgemaster. So my debate is whether I should board out some combo pieces (e.g. drop to 3 Metalworker, cut Staff, etc) and plan for the long game, or if that's just limiting one of MUD's great strengths.

For reference, my current list is:

4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone
4 Forgemaster
2 Wurmcoil
1 Emperion
1 Sundering Titan
1 Blightsteel
2 Ugin

4 Monolith
4 Chalice
3 Trinisphere
2 Coercive Portal
2 Grieves
1 Staff of Domination
1 Spine

4 Wasteland
4 Tomb
4 City
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
2 Cavern

1 Karn
1 Platinum Angel
1 Spine
1 Contagion Engine
1 Trinisphere
2 Crucible
2 Pithing Needle
2 Warping Wail
2 Thorn
2 Tormod's Crypt

[battousai555]

Eldrazi Aggro is a problem for this deck. Big problem. Eldrazi Aggro isn't affected by Chalice/Trinisphere much if at all; they apply quick pressure out of the gates; they often play Wasteland; and their Thought-Knot Seer is highly disruptive.

Honestly, I was hoping the Eldrazi deck wouldn't gain traction in Legacy because I felt that this Legend MUD list had such good game against the rest of the field, but if we expect to see alot of Eldrazi Aggro in Legacy now, Legend MUD will have to be re-configured.

Here's my thought: Ensnaring Bridge 2x MD and 2x SB. Eldrazi Aggro can't beat a resolved Ensnaring Bridge, and Bridge is randomly good against lots of other decks as well. Playing 2/2 Bridge split should basically make Sneak'n'Show a bye, and it will help fight troublesome matchups like Elves. And it's not even dead against Miracles - it can stop the Entreat kill condition and sometimes even Mentor!

Bridge is actually the perfect control card for this deck because this deck is fundamentally a control deck. Unlike traditional Metalworker MUD, it's not trying to win by attacking with its own creatures - its building inevitability with its planeswalkers and legendary creature ETB effects. With Bridge in play, you don't really care necessarily if you can't attack with Ulamog and/or Kozilek as long as you can eventually destroy their board by recurring Ulamog or dropping Ugins and Karns.

The only question now is what to take out for the Bridges. My first thought is -1 Hedron Archive and -1 Kozilek, +2 Ensnaring Bridge in MD, and -2 Thorn of Amethyst, +2 Ensnaring Bridge in SB.

That seems like a good plan! Hedron definitely feels like one of our weaker cards, and I can see Kozilek being fine as a 1-of. I think the thorns were a bit much anyway, so that makes sense, too. How do you think the overall meta is going to shift to combat Eldrazi Aggro? I assume the number of Storm players is going to decrease significantly, but I'm not sure what else.

Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk

[nedleeds]

Not against Legend MUD. I'm playing 2x Bridge myself as you can see from my list few posts above; if Eldrazi Stompy really becomes a real Legacy deck the number probably should be upped as MGB said.

Sure, but the deck is Metalworker Utter Domination. In fact the word Metalworker is in the thread title. Your list looks fun but it's not Metalworker.

For actual MUD the hands that beat you involve the lower curve cards, Mimic and TKS. I think that Metalworkers mid and late game are superior. Torpor Orb shuts both of these down. A typical MUD build loses out on Titan and Duplicant playing Orb. Titan is something I'd board out vs. another stompy deck anyway. Duplicant can be replaced. Orb is also good vs. elves and SFM decks. It randomly hates on some niche decks like Goblins as well, which ... is real bad with Orb out.

[Rikter]

Sure, but the deck is Metalworker Utter Domination. In fact the word Metalworker is in the thread title. Your list looks fun but it's not Metalworker.

For actual MUD the hands that beat you involve the lower curve cards, Mimic and TKS. I think that Metalworkers mid and late game are superior. Torpor Orb shuts both of these down. A typical MUD build loses out on Titan and Duplicant playing Orb. Titan is something I'd board out vs. another stompy deck anyway. Duplicant can be replaced. Orb is also good vs. elves and SFM decks. It randomly hates on some niche decks like Goblins as well, which ... is real bad with Orb out.

I've had to play goblins with mud twice before, I was really happy to have had contagion clasp and dismember in the board, because as much as I am not particularly impressed with the deck, if you let them connect with a turn 1 lackey things can get out of hand. I wouldn't have really played torpor orb prior to eldrazi being a deck, I chose to attack those decks differently, but now that eldrazi is a thing for the short term at least I'm happy to play orb for them and have some splash hate.

[Barsoom]

Sure, but the deck is Metalworker Utter Domination. In fact the word Metalworker is in the thread title. Your list looks fun but it's not Metalworker.

Not really, first of all the name of the deck MUD originated from "mud", the english word for "sludge", "mire" and so on.
So the so called "Legend MUD" version with no creatures and more mana ramps etc is MUD like the Metalworker version too.
Not every MUD deck must play Metalworker to be called MUD, in Vintage too there are MUD decks, with and without Metalworker.
If you mean "create another topic cause this one is just for MUD with Metalworker" that's would make little sense imho and we should discussion all variations of MUD (english word) in one thread.

[nedleeds]

The topic header actually says Metalworker. There is a reason it is MUD, and not Mud. You aren't playing 3ball, Wasteland, Metalworker, Golem or any artifact creatures really and you are playing 1 drops. Your deck is probably awesome but it deserves its own thread. It shares as much with 12 post as it does with metalworker utter domination.

[Bobmans]

Legends MUD is MUD. It belongs here.
MUD is not short for anything.
MUD just stands for wet dirt/earth, etc.
What is your point?

[battousai555]

The topic header actually says Metalworker. There is a reason it is MUD, and not Mud. You aren't playing 3ball, Wasteland, Metalworker, Golem or any artifact creatures really and you are playing 1 drops. Your deck is probably awesome but it deserves its own thread. It shares as much with 12 post as it does with metalworker utter domination.

Legend MUD does play Trinisphere, we're playing Lodestone Golems and Phyrexian Revokers in the SB, and we're playing 0-2 Voltaic Keys. If you think this deck shares as much in common with 12 post as it does traditional MUD, I implore you to take a harder look at 12 Post lists (see: crop rotation, GSZ, candelabra, expedition map, divining top, brainstorm).

On another note, "MUD" does not stand for "Metalworker Utter Domination." Source: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/v...velopment.html

[Rikter]

Legend MUD does play Trinisphere, we're playing Lodestone Golems and Phyrexian Revokers in the SB, and we're playing 0-2 Voltaic Keys. If you think this deck shares as much in common with 12 post as it does traditional MUD, I implore you to take a harder look at 12 Post lists (see: crop rotation, GSZ, candelabra, expedition map, divining top, brainstorm).

On another note, "MUD" does not stand for "Metalworker Utter Domination." Source: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/v...velopment.html

To be fair, this forum is explicitly titled MUD **Metalworker**, so regardless of the origin of the name, which i thought was a reference to the old frame colors, the forum sort of clears things up through its title.

Personally I dont think that list with all the eldrazi and planeswalkers is a MUD list, but I think we can all agree it is in no way shape or form a metalworker list, meaning it is outside the acope of this thread, you know, the mud METALWORKER thread.

[Rikter]

Not really, first of all the name of the deck MUD originated from "mud", the english word for "sludge", "mire" and so on.
So the so called "Legend MUD" version with no creatures and more mana ramps etc is MUD like the Metalworker version too.
Not every MUD deck must play Metalworker to be called MUD, in Vintage too there are MUD decks, with and without Metalworker.
If you mean "create another topic cause this one is just for MUD with Metalworker" that's would make little sense imho and we should discussion all variations of MUD (english word) in one thread.

There are no such thing as MUD decks in vintage. We do have Shops and stacks though. I can understand wanting to discuss decks like the one above in this thread, but his deck plays much differently than a metalworker deck.

Personally i think that the thread title should be MUD (metalworker/forgemaster), because a forgemaster deck that doesnt run metalworker would still be playing basically the same game as me...but that list just isnt.

[bruizar]

Can we please stop worrying about what does or does not constitute MUD or the origin of its name? It adds nothing to the discussion especially if people are referring to vintage incorrectly (@Rikter: The name MUD was a vintage deck name upon which the name for the legacy port was based. Eventually Workshop Aggro become the name for what used to be MUD and the same will happen in legacy imo). Posting a list without Metalworker that is otherwise similar in strategy to MUD in a separate thread just fragments the discussion. IF Metalworker isn't the right call at the moment, then people should be willing to cut Metalworker and still post their list in this thread.

What matters is the mana-base and the reliance on colorless artifact beaters which will more often than not result in lists utilizing Metalworker, Lodestone Golem, Chalice of the Void and Phyrexian Revoker. My definition of MUD is a deck with explosive draws from unfair mana accelerants with disruptive colorless artifact beaters using ancient tombs and city of traitors. Whether you need to tinker with Forgemaster, tap Grim Monolith or run first turn Lightning Greaves into second turn Metalworkers is ultimately a meta/preference issue.

Like it or not, we will probably see Thought-Knot Seer end up in the deck at some point, which slightly dilutes the power of Metalworker (and the requirement to run him instead given that 4 mana is easily reachable). This deck will evolve or die to Eldrazis.

On another note, "MUD" does not stand for "Metalworker Utter Domination." Source: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/v...velopment.html

This part of magic history is unknown to me. I actually played during this time in Castricum (which is 20 minutes from my house).

I do not remember the list as it was mentioned in the thread. I do remember playing against Grafted Skullcaps and Goblin Welders and later on Trinispheres/Barbarian rings in 2004 in Castricum. It was also around this time that some other notable vintage decks were made here. My favorite deck during that time was Leviat (also dutch design; a control deck running Bazaar of Baghdad + Mana Drain + Replenish). Very insightful article though.

[Airwave]

This deck will evolve or die to Eldrazis.

Or just beat it.

[Rikter]

What matters is the mana-base and the reliance on colorless artifact beaters which will more often than not result in lists utilizing Metalworker, Lodestone Golem, Chalice of the Void and Phyrexian Revoker. My definition of MUD is a deck with explosive draws from unfair mana accelerants with disruptive colorless artifact beaters using ancient tombs and city of traitors. Whether you need to tinker with Forgemaster, tap Grim Monolith or run first turn Lightning Greaves into second turn Metalworkers is ultimately a meta/preference issue.

Like it or not, we will probably see Thought-Knot Seer end up in the deck at some point, which slightly dilutes the power of Metalworker (and the requirement to run him instead given that 4 mana is easily reachable). This deck will evolve or die to Eldrazis.

So I highlited some important points in your post...please note the absence of any of these in the Legendary "MUD" build. A deck that uses planeswalkers and eldrazi as it's sole main deck win cons is not MUD. I get that it also has an artifact win con in Staff of Nin, but a singleton staff does not make a MUD list. I don't know what you call that list, but it aint MUD. This isn't really the forum for turboing out large Eldrazi and Ugin...his play lines, deck composition, sideboarding decisions are really not in any way shape or form in line with an actual MUD list.

That list is really a budget post list as far as I am concerned, where you use a ton of cheaper mana rocks to approximate the effects of candelabra, and the 12 post players would probably be better equipped to provide feedback, because his deck does NOT play like a Metalworker deck.

"Whether you need to tinker with Forgemaster, tap Grim Monolith or run first turn Lightning Greaves into second turn Metalworkers is ultimately a meta/preference issue."

The decks that most closely adhere to the general form of Metalworker MUD will have the ability to do ALL of these things, with the starting 60, and the choice of which one to do is not a meta preference at all, its based on the MU at hand. The meta preference comes into play with the things we decide to ramp out and tinker for.

Ultimately, I'm not opposed to the guy posting his list here and asking for help, because there are sooooome similarities with our decks, but not many as far as I am concerned, and there may be a better forum for him to post those questions.

I dont think Metalworker MUD is going to be running thought-knot seer, but that's just my opinion. And stock Metalworker has the tools it needs to beat Eldrazi. You might want to alter the sideboard a little bit, specifically bridge and torpor orb, or with particular forgemaster targets but I personally am not worried about Eldrazi.

[L10]

I have been playing with three copies TKS in my Metalworker build, and it's house. It not being an artifact is countered by its natural low CMC. And a 4 CMC 4/4 disruptive beater is, as far I am concerned, a bargain. Though, it does get a little more expensive with Lodestone Golem.

[Rikter]

I have been playing with three copies TKS in my Metalworker build, and it's house. It not being an artifact is countered by its natural low CMC. And a 4 CMC 4/4 disruptive beater is, as far I am concerned, a bargain. Though, it does get a little more expensive with Lodestone Golem.

I saw an Eldrazi deck playing LSG alongside Thought-Knot, I thought it was a little odd. He won the match, but that doesn't mean much. Personally Im not sure what I would take out for though-knot, in my list including him would probably require taking out either lodestone golem or my last two 3spheres, staff and lightning greaves. What did you take out for him?

For the time being, I feel like I can't afford any more slots to things that don't power metalworker and can't be searched up by or used to power Forgemaster and Id rather have Ugin and Wail than thought-knot.

[bruizar]

txt

I agree with you but lets try to be inclusive / supportive as much as we can. The more love for our colorless cards the better, even if they are eldrazis sometimes.

[L10]

I am still playing with 'TurboMUD'.

Lands (21)
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Crystal Vein

Mana (11)
4 Metalworker
4 Grim Monolith
3 Mindstone

Threats (17)
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
1 Blightsteel Colossus

Locks (6)
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere

Utility (5)
3 Lightning Greaves
1 Staff of Nin
1 Phyrexian Metamorph

[Stuart]

I agree with you but lets try to be inclusive / supportive as much as we can. The more love for our colorless cards the better, even if they are eldrazis sometimes.

While I agree with you, I find myself getting defensive about Eldrazi, what with the echo chamber constantly saying Eldrazi Stompy is going to take over Legay and replace MUD . Still, it's interesting to see when/how the new colorless space monsters are insinuating themselves into artifact territory. I'll be intrigued to see if TSK, etc become MUD staples in the longterm.

Decklist

Really interesting list - thanks for posting this. How explosive are your starts? I'm assuming pretty explosive if you call it TurboMUD, but it just looks light on lands that produce 2+ mana.