Don't get me wrong. Warping wail is a great card, for what we want it for, but with all the non artifact additions diluting down the artifact count for metalworker and forgemaster, why even still use metalworker and forgemaster? And if we eliminate those two, don't we just become a cloudpost big eldrazi? I'm not saying that even that would be a bad thing, but that kinda changes the whole concept a bit far, into a new deck.Originally Posted by dreamborn
If you are running 4 Ancient Tomb and 2-4 Trinisphere, you are likely a mud variant. Turbo-post decks don't usually run these cards (not main at least). The above 2 cards I've found to be the definitive "You're likely a MUD deck" cards.
Mud is a fairly broad archetype; this thread encapsulates more than 3 (to my count) fairly distinct decks, and those decks can be built in very different ways; there is far more flexibility in deckbuilding than most archetypes in legacy, and this makes deckbuilding challenging... which makes MUD a lot more fun (to me) than many other archetypes.
Edit: here's a list I recently played that really pushes on the border between turbo-eldrazi and MUD:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Thespian Stage
3 Vesuva
1 Dark Depths
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Maze of Ith
4 Pithing Needle
4 Expedition Map
4 Grim Monolith
3 Trinisphere
1 Ulamog, the Hungry
1 Emrakul, the Mindslaver
1 Emrakul, the Scary
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Endbringer
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Is it MUD? Is it post? I'm not really sure, but it is fun.
Hey bro, I've been piloting this for years now, I named it MUD Post because it was from the UG Post like build but has MUD Components. You may want to check some of my brews here:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13389&d=278519&f=LE
*http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13645&d=280305&f=LE
*http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14091&d=283782&f=LE
This deck is really awesome, ive made lot of changes to my build everytime i join big tourneys here in my country. If you have questions feel free to ask =)
If you are running 4 Ancient Tomb and 2-4 Trinisphere, you are likely a mud variant. Turbo-post decks don't usually run these cards (not main at least). The above 2 cards I've found to be the definitive "You're likely a MUD deck" cards.
Mud is a fairly broad archetype; this thread encapsulates more than 3 (to my count) fairly distinct decks, and those decks can be built in very different ways; there is far more flexibility in deckbuilding than most archetypes in legacy, and this makes deckbuilding challenging... which makes MUD a lot more fun (to me) than many other archetypes
Edit: here's a list I recently played that really pushes on the border between turbo-eldrazi and MUD:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Thespian Stage
3 Vesuva
1 Dark Depths
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Maze of Ith
4 Pithing Needle
4 Expedition Map
4 Grim Monolith
3 Trinisphere
1 Ulamog, the Hungry
1 Emrakul, the Mindslaver
1 Emrakul, the Scary
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Endbringer
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Is it MUD? Is it post? I'm not really sure, but it is fun.
Yeah, those are the lists I built it off of. It's a really fun deck :) Unfortunately Candles and Abyss' are hard to come by :/
Out of curiosity, what (which) is your up to date build?
Actually I do change alot. Everytime I join tourneys.
I really liked my Black MUD build because it can cast lotvs lol! And the abyss are really cool!
Here's my current Build:
[28 lands]
4 ancient tomb
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
3 vesuva
3 thespian's stage
4 maze of ith
2 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 karakas
1 eye of ugin
1 the tabernacle at pendrell vale
1 dark depths
[12 creatures]
4 lodestone golem
4 thought-knot seer
2 wurmcoil engine
1 ulamog, the ceaseless hunger
1 emrakul, the aeons torn
[16 artifacts]
4 grim monolith
4 exped map
4 pithing needle
3 candelabra of tawnos
1 forcefield
[5 planeswalkers]
2 ugin, the spirit dragon
3 karn liberated
Sideboard
4 chalice
4 leyline of the void
3 trinisphere
3 all is dust
1 avarice totem
nice list...side in and side out vs miracle,ant,bug,death and taxes,eldrazi,rug delver,elf,infect,land,sneak and show
thanks i test you list help me side in and side out
[28 Lands]
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
3 Thespian's Stage
4 Maze of Ith
2 Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Dark Depths
[12 Creatures]
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
[16 Artifacts]
4 Grim Monolith
4 Expedition Map
4 Pithing Needle
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Forcefield
[5 Planeswalkers]
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Karn Liberated
[Sideboard]
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 All Is Dust
1 Avarice Totem
Miracles - Basically this is a good matchup, so you would'nt mind any boarding at all, But sometimes I do board in the ff:
+3 All is Dust (For Jace, Entreat the Angel's Tokens, Mentors, Blood Moons etc.)
+3 Trinisphere (Usually I brought it in when I encountered blue decks)
-3 Candelabra of Tawnos
-1 Forcefield
-1 Dark Depths
-1 Maze of Ith
ANT - This is a 70/30 matchup (70% us in favor), since you have TKS and Golem on your G1, and have Chalice of the Void and Trinisphere to back us up on the Boarding games.
+4 Leyline of the Void (Optional - if you feel like it, to remove the GY and make his PIF / Past in Flames a deadcard)
+4 Chalice of the Void
+3 Trinishpere
-4 Pithing Needle
-2 Candelabra of Tawnos
-1 Forcefield
-4 Maze of Ith
BUG - This matchup is slightly bad for us. (40/60)
+3 All is Dust
+4 Chalice of the Void (If we're playing first)
-3 Candelabra of Tawnos
-1 Dark Depths
-1 Expedition Map
-1 Karn Liberated
-1 Karakas
Death and Taxes - This is also not a good matchup I say (40/60). (Always Needle the Aether Vial if he drops it on his 1st turn)
+3 All is Dust
+4 Chalice of the Void (If we're playing first)
-3 Candelabra of Tawnos
-1 Dark Depths
-1 Karn Liberated
-1 Expedition Map
-1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Eldrazi - Bad matchup since they're really fast. That's why I made the Maze of Ith into 4 copies.
+1 Avarice Totem (Optional, can board nothing at all)
-1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
RUG Delver - Slightly good matchup.
Same as BUG boarding.
ELVES - Elves can really blew you on T2-T3 That's why we need to control the flow of its creature drops.
+3 All is Dust
+4 Chalice of the Void
+3 Trinisphere
-1 Forcefield
-3 Candelabra of Tawnos
-1 Maze of Ith
-1 Dark Depths
-2 Wurmcoil Engine
-2 Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth
INFECT - Also a Badmatchup thats why there is also 4 copies of Maze of Ith on the List
+4 Chalice of the Void
+3 Trinisphere
-2 Wurmcoil Engine
-3 Candelabra of Tawnos
-1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
-1 Dark Depths
LANDS - Surely a badmatchup for us
+4 Leyline of the Void
+4 Chalice of the Void (If playing first, for 0 or 1 and 2 for later games)
-1 Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth
-1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
-1 Dark Depths
-1 Maze of Ith
(Optional if chalice are in):
-3 Candelabra of Tawnos
-1 Karn Liberated
SNEAK & SHOW - 50/50
+4 Chalice of the Void
+3 Trinishpere
+1 Avarice Totem (for funky plays only)
-3 Candelabra of Tawnos
-2 Wurmcoil Engine
-1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth,
-1 Forcefield
-1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Played my smuggler's mud brew to a 5-3 finish today. My losses on the day was against bug delver, enchantress and burn.
Round 1 was delver. Game 3 was a double wasteland into a fatal push on a smuggler's copter. What is this standard?!
Round 4 was enchantress. I was under a solitary confinement lock and was at 5 trillion life. Lol. Unfortunately, I didn't have a way to win: spine of ish sha targets, infect is still damage and steel hellkite still has to do damage to get the destroy effect. My SB didn't have much either...I didn't come equipped with ratchet bombs or all us dust. Doh!
Round 6? Was against burn. I was able to race game 2 being on the play. Game three I was set up for a turn 2 wurmcoil engine, but my opponents turn 2 was smash to smithreens my monolith... burn just feels like an unwinnable mAtchup.
Highlights: sundering titan miracles into oblivion and beating merfolk with copter on a mulligan to five. I also played 3 mishra's factories and as of today I realized, 4 is the correct number. I'm contemplating going down to 3 wastelands...is that just crazy talk.
It was great...whenever any of my local friends asked, what are you playing? When I answered Smuggler's copter, the looks I got were astounding. Most fun I've had at a magic tournament in a long time! Copter because of it. I almost played two walking ballistas SB and was definitely a good inclusion!
Last edited by maCHOOga; 02-20-2017 at 03:46 PM.
Imo, ugin is hands down better than all is dust, for 95% of the situations you'll see at a tournament, and it's a win condition, with a reusable wipe. As far as wastelands, some people have cut them down to 2, or even cut them completely. I feel like 3 is a fine number.
A buddy of mine plays burn regularly, so I've played that match a bunch. Usually the line is trinisphere, chalice on 1 and/or chalice on 2 gets you there. You wanna be the control deck against burn. If you have any number of chalices, trinisphere, lodestone, thorn of amethyst, etc and a platinum under greaves, you end up with too many targets to smash. Also, ugin becomes a win condition there too, because you lock them out and who cares if you slowly bolt them to death. Plus, ugin kills sulfuric vortex if they run it, and kills over e-bridge if they run it.
I'm really liking all these scenarios with walking ballistas. Gives us early interactions with dudes that we usually don't have.
I don't understand taking out Ballista against DnT.. isn't it exactly what we want against white weenies? I included them in my list specifically for DnT haha. I'm debating dropping the Wails main and putting the Bombs in their place. I hate drawing wails when I have a metalworker that I COULD power something out with but I'm short 2 Mana. So tilting 😑
A lot of awesome ideas here. Forcefield is insane haha. I forgot that was an option. Might be worth a fun-slot??
Hello, since a player in my area plays constantly metalworker( prison with grim monolith, chalice, trinisphere lodestone golem, wurmcoil/ sundering titan...) and wins every time against me while I play blue decks because of fast combo decks wich are also played in here.
I'd like some advice to win against his deck. I usually play delver, I can play any delver deck/miracles/ shardless with the cards I own and didn't find the right deck to beat MUD decks.
How to play/ what to usually play that beats the deck?
Thanks.
Wasteland and Abrupt decay can go a long ways to keeping them from taking off. Combined with discard this can be quite potent, as mud can be pretty clunky with topdecks if kept off its mana. Tarmogoyf can also go a long way in the matchup, again if you can keep MUD closer to the ground. I'd play BUG delver/team america if I had to be in blue. All that being said, the reason you play MUD is to take a dump on blue; aggro loam, taxes, maverick, jund can do pretty well vs MUD, partly because they play more than 20 lands (goes a long way vs 3ball).
Null Rod is not a bad call, especially if there's also storm in the meta.
My Opinions:
-MUD is favored vs. Miracles. The CMC is very distributed making counterbalance useless. Jace TMS or a miracle entreat is the best way to win if your in control or a miracle entreat.
-Delver is favored vs. MUD. Don't let chalice resolve, flip FoW to a Delver and aggressively wasteland ancient tombs/cities. Discard is good as well.
-Shardless feels 50/50. Chalice is bad against shardless due to the diversity of mana costs. MUD is bad at playing from behind, so you want to attack their hand
@Theonlyone: if you're playing Miracles and want to beat MUD, play Back To Basics or From The Ashes. If you've kept them off Metalworker, they should lose after that.
#
Different question: how's Walking Ballista working out for everyone so far? I really want it to be good, but it hasn't done shit for me. If I go a few more weeklies without it living up to its potential, I'll go back to TKS.
Here's a list I'm brewing...what do you guys think? Its a Blue take on Mud that has some pretty cool lines of play that can blow out the opponent with a well timed Upheaval. Third turn Upheaval into Trinisphere/Chalice is a common line of play. Another neat trick is Tiding your own lands and then casting Upheaval which gives a ridiculous advantage. Tide can also create a near-hard lock with Trinisphere post-Upheaval. If I can resolve a third or fourth turn Upheaval its usually a scoop right after.
One thought I had was actually moving away from Chalice and testing out cards like Divining Top, Brainstorm (using the inferior Impulse right now due to Chalice), and Voltaic Key along with more fetch lands. Another possibility is using Scroll Rack for filtering (which plays more nicely with Chalice than SDT) but I don't have access to that card and would rather not drop $100 to experiment. I also want to test Lightning Greaves because a hasty Metal Worker after an Upheaval with 10+ cards in your hand is just nasty.
//Lands//
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Saprazzan Skerry
4 Polluted Delta
8 Island
//Creatures//
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metal Worker
//Artifacts//
4 Grim Monolith
2 Thran Dynamo
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
//Planeswalkers//
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Karn Liberated
//Enchantments//
3 Parallax Tide
//Sorceries//
3 Upheaval
//Instants//
4 Impulse
[Sideboard]
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 All Is Dust
1 Avarice Totem
I played in the Quest for Power this week and the card is A++ against infect. I hit a point where I was just dumping metalworker mana into it to grow it. You do have to be cautious of krosan grip when playing it though.
I did actually lose a game because I got greedy with ballista against elves. They fetched turn 1 into a dryad arbor. I could have taken my 2nd turn to just deploy ballista to sinkhole them. I decided that I wanted to hold out and make it a 2/2. My opponent went fetchland pass, EOT dryad arbor #2. Untap, cradle natural order get progenitus.
@PurpleBlood: sweet brew! I'm too much of a colorless junkie to try it myself, but I do love the idea of MUD with either Top or Rack. It's possible that's the correct direction to move in to solve our consistency issues. Rack is worse but dodges Chalice; alternatively, you could swap Chalice for Thorn to play Top, and then get access to shit like Needle and Expedition Map. Also, maybe try out Thirst for Knowledge? Either way, keep us posted on it.
@Machooga: Yeah, Ballista seems like a house against Infect, DnT, and Elves. However, it feels so bad against midrange and combo that it's officially moved into my sideboard. In a deck likes this there isn't room to run anything in the main that can be a dead draw in some matches. (I understand it's not literally a dead draw, but it sure feels bad playing one vs an X/2.)
I also took out most of my Ballistas. I left one in to combo-kill with Staff and Metalworker (which I succeeded in doing on Thursday and it was sweeeet). I actually replaced them with maindeck Revokers and they worked much better than I thought they would! It helped against quite a lot including my 2-0 against D+T and 2-0 against BUG Delver. It would've been hilarious to drop with a Show and Tell but it didn't come up (I also beat SnT in 3).
I have all my tempo-critter removal in the sideboard now. 4 Wail and 1 Spatial Contortion. Depending on the MU, I take out Trinisphere, Portal, extra wurmcoil..
Things I learned this past week;
- BUG's out to your Blightsteel are next to nothing. Baleful Strix can't kill it 😆
- keep your threats versatile so they can't target one game plan
- Portal is still amazing in the main. I had it in the board for the Walkers but out-drawing your
Opponent is ALWAYS good (the exception being Leovold)
Last edited by Mosesthecoot; 03-12-2017 at 05:55 PM.
You know, it's been forever since I thought about Revoker. Good call, Moses - I might have to give them another try.
Turn 1: Deathrite
Turn 1: Revoker - nice 1/2 over there, buddy
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