[Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

[GradStudent]

For the sake, ive reverted to 2 ugin mb, and moved the spine to sb. Spine is much better when youve got 3 to 4 forgemasters mb and see them every game. I kinda. wanna jam a hellkite mb, too. Dunno what im moving for it other than maybe trinisphere, but three ball tends to win games.

Sundering titan can be the nuts. If your opponent is more than one color, and isnt lands anyway. It is a cunky monkey, anyway. Stays in evem vs d and t. Nice 4c deck, dude. Gotta deathrite on board? Keen. Ya gots no lands.

So whats your updated list now? +1 ugin, -1 all is dust? Spine to SB ?

[malfie13]

Wouldn't maindeck Spheres of Resistance be overall better than Thorns?

Absolutely not. T1 thorn, t2 lodestone is markedly better than sphere vs anything but dt and elves

[malfie13]

Malfie13 how has Sorcerous Spyglass fared for you?

Im going to be 100pct honest. I only hit it twice all weekend, and i had a pretty solid idea of what to name already. Lol. Once was vs lands, and the other vs a sneak and show player during the trials, who was my loss that day. Won both games, but it was just a needle that went through a chalice. I kinda wanna work them ib mb, but other than 1x trinisphere i have no clue what id cut.

[malfie13]

So whats your updated list now? +1 ugin, -1 all is dust? Spine to SB ?

Spine and all is dust to side, 2x all is dust in side. Cut the third wurmcoil from the sb. Also for any heavy comp play id probably suggest stucking a tormod crypt in your board. I like three macabre, however they can be needled and it can cost you games

[Stuart]

MUD top 4’d a Classic this weekend. Maybe the deck’s not as poorly positioned as I thought...

Quick takeaways:
- Mox Diamond
- Darksteel Citadel
- No Posts
- Sweltering Suns?!? That can’t be right

[DNSolver]

Here's an interesting list:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=117027

Can someone on this thread tell me if I'm missing something for how this deck wins G1? The only way I have found is a lengthy process:

1) Play lock pieces to buy time (Bridge, chalice, 3ball)
2) Use an Inventor's Fair to tutor up Staff of Domination + Metalworker
3) Use Buried Ruin to make sure these things resolve
4) Go infinite and draw cards to a full hand size.
5) Use your card advantage to keep ticking up Smokestacks and killing all your opponent's permanents and get 3ball out so the opponent can't play anything.
6) Attack opponent to death with Metalworkers once they literally cannot play anything other than 1 land a turn that gets eaten by smokestack on their upkeep.

[Hanni]

Here's an interesting list:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=117027

Can someone on this thread tell me if I'm missing something for how this deck wins G1? The only way I have found is a lengthy process:

1) Play lock pieces to buy time (Bridge, chalice, 3ball)
2) Use an Inventor's Fair to tutor up Staff of Domination + Metalworker
3) Use Buried Ruin to make sure these things resolve
4) Go infinite and draw cards to a full hand size.
5) Use your card advantage to keep ticking up Smokestacks and killing all your opponent's permanents and get 3ball out so the opponent can't play anything.
6) Attack opponent to death with Metalworkers once they literally cannot play anything other than 1 land a turn that gets eaten by smokestack on their upkeep.

When he has beaten me, it's because I scoop after he has the lock in place (Trinisphere, Smokestack on 1, and Crucible). I've seen him win with Metalworker beats more often than I've seen him win with Staff of Domination.

[malfie13]

Here's an interesting list:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=117027

Can someone on this thread tell me if I'm missing something for how this deck wins G1? The only way I have found is a lengthy process:

1) Play lock pieces to buy time (Bridge, chalice, 3ball)
2) Use an Inventor's Fair to tutor up Staff of Domination + Metalworker
3) Use Buried Ruin to make sure these things resolve
4) Go infinite and draw cards to a full hand size.
5) Use your card advantage to keep ticking up Smokestacks and killing all your opponent's permanents and get 3ball out so the opponent can't play anything.
6) Attack opponent to death with Metalworkers once they literally cannot play anything other than 1 land a turn that gets eaten by smokestack on their upkeep.

This deck looks super tedious to win with. I mean it shoul optimally run a serious win con g1, such as ballista or even a man land or two mb. You can generate mana, tap down a board and coninutally swing with a god's eye spirit. Anything, really. I dunno. I had a game vs a deck like this when I was in GB pox during teh dig through omnishow period, and I hated that game. We went 0-0-1 in the 3-0 bracket. It was mind numbing. I had cast worm harvest like 5 times, and had 31 1/1/ wurms on board, but couldn't find two abrupt decays for bridges to swing lethal.

[malfie13]

MUD top 4’d a Classic this weekend. Maybe the deck’s not as poorly positioned as I thought...

Quick takeaways:
- Mox Diamond
- Darksteel Citadel
- No Posts
- Sweltering Suns?!? That can’t be right

That's awesome! Wow! Maybe we can get some traction. Hopefully not too, too much, tho. Lol. Love Razormane Manticore. It and Hangarback are constantly on the cusp of my sb. I also like Myr Battleshpere. One day the myrs are gonna roll some fool. Lol.

[Stuart]

With EW out of the way I'm back to testing jank, so last night I played MUD with 3 maindeck Spyglass. Went 1-3 and wasn't that impressed with Spyglass. It won me a match against Maverick by shutting off Wasteland, but in my other 3 matches it was air. I found myself casting it turn 1, shutting off a fetch, and then not capitalizing on that momentum. I think I'll be moving them into the board for Wasteland matchups.

Of course, I also went 1-3 because this deck is so fucking inconsistent . 2 of my losses were to new Miracles, thanks to me mulling to 5 and not drawing lands / flooding out.

Please, Wizards, just print Cloudpost 5-8.

[MGB]

With EW out of the way I'm back to testing jank, so last night I played MUD with 3 maindeck Spyglass. Went 1-3 and wasn't that impressed with Spyglass. It won me a match against Maverick by shutting off Wasteland, but in my other 3 matches it was air. I found myself casting it turn 1, shutting off a fetch, and then not capitalizing on that momentum. I think I'll be moving them into the board for Wasteland matchups.

Of course, I also went 1-3 because this deck is so fucking inconsistent . 2 of my losses were to new Miracles, thanks to me mulling to 5 and not drawing lands / flooding out.

Please, Wizards, just print Cloudpost 5-8.

It's called Vesuva... and Thespian's Stage. =)

[sco0ter]

Here's an interesting list:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=117027

Can someone on this thread tell me if I'm missing something for how this deck wins G1? The only way I have found is a lengthy process:

1) Play lock pieces to buy time (Bridge, chalice, 3ball)
2) Use an Inventor's Fair to tutor up Staff of Domination + Metalworker
3) Use Buried Ruin to make sure these things resolve
4) Go infinite and draw cards to a full hand size.
5) Use your card advantage to keep ticking up Smokestacks and killing all your opponent's permanents and get 3ball out so the opponent can't play anything.
6) Attack opponent to death with Metalworkers once they literally cannot play anything other than 1 land a turn that gets eaten by smokestack on their upkeep.

The author of this list stated:

Golem plays a lot better with Sphere of Resistance than Trinisphere, which in turn leads you to play a higher land count to play through Sphere tax.

So the question to you all, but especially malfie13:

When Lodestone Golem, then prefer Sphere of Resistance instead of Trinisphere?

malfie's list played Golem AND 3sphere however.

Is Resistance only good in control shells, due to higher land count?

Are there any general rules, when to play which sphere?

Edit: He also states, that Metalworker and Lodestone Golem should not be paired together, because they "pull you in opposite directions in many ways".
What's your thoughts? malfies list also included both.

[Silverflame]

The author of this list stated:



So the question to you all, but especially malfie13:

When Lodestone Golem, then prefer Sphere of Resistance instead of Trinisphere?

malfie's list played Golem AND 3sphere however.

Is Resistance only good in control shells, due to higher land count?

Are there any general rules, when to play which sphere?

Edit: He also states, that Metalworker and Lodestone Golem should not be paired together, because they "pull you in opposite directions in many ways".
What's your thoughts? malfies list also included both.

I believe OP was stating his opinion on MUD stax builds, that are less mana hungry and lock opponents on a different way. vanilla MUD plays metalworkers, lodestone and 3balls together.
My problem with spheres is that you use monoliths and workers to guarantee you have mana if you get wasted. Its easy to lock yourself out if your opponent get rid of your sources. Usually trinisphere and thorn hurts us less, so I guess they are less risky to play.

[Silverflame]

So this came up

[Stuart]

Immortal Sun

It's pretty spicy, and seems worth trying if you were playing Staff of Nin. However, Ugin is one of the best things MUD can do, and this shuts him off.

[Silverflame]

It's pretty spicy, and seems worth trying if you were playing Staff of Nin. However, Ugin is one of the best things MUD can do, and this shuts him off.

I believe its worth testing. We have 1-3 non-tutorable Ugins that can be cast if opponent destroys this, the extra draws are always relevant, the creature bonus takes lodesotne and wurm tokens out of bolt range and mw from wail and sudden shock range. The pw ability gives an edge against jund and miracles (I would say pox too, but if you have 6 mana against pox, odds are you are already winning).
It doesn't look stellar, but I agree its at least a direct improvement to Staff of Nin. I'll probably try cutting a coercive portal for this.

[shallowend]

Worth testing but apart from the howling mine effect I worry it isn't doing anything we want. Our creatures are already the biggest, our spells are mainly even casting costs to line up with our mana production and ugin is probably the single most powerful card frequently cast for its full cost in the format.

I am also a fan of nins ping ability

Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk

[Mosesthecoot]

So, I know you've done your due diligence and you kicked ass at this tournament, but your numbers confuse me. I can see Wasteland being cut due to it slowing you down in your own mana production; however, why only run 2 Monolith in that case? Three Chalice? Chalice on turn 1 HAS to be your #1 goal in a prison/stompy build, am I wrong? I do understand that on the play, it's much less desirable but on the play, I've got to imagine you want the highest probability of drawing Sol Land plus Chalice.

Petrified Field has to be coming out, right? I love the spice and the card but there has to be better utility lands? Even a second Stage if not another Fair. I feel dirty taking out the Wastelands but I can certainly see the merit.

Ghirapur Orrey: How often is this not helping your opp.? I get the synergy with Cloister (another pet card of mine) but drawing 2 one-ofs seems like a dream.

I also understand your 2 Forgemasters, unlike potentially many other people. I actually just built a Forgemaster-less version with 4 Wurms and 4 Ballista, cutting all the 1-ofs like Emperion, Titan, Blightsteel.. and put them all in the board (with the masters) for a transmorgative SB. I'm also not afraid of spice so I'm trying FOUR Sun Droplets I hope I didn't lose you there. It's a venerable wall of lifegain and you can even gain life off your tombs if you have 3 in play heh.

Wish I wasn't just dropping a lot of questions on you. Seems unfair not being able to have a conversation but I would appreciate your input and 'grats again on the finish!

[malfie13]

Hi, guys. Been a hot minute. I will answer those questions in a second, but i wanted to share what i was thinking about bringing to a local gp tomorrow, for side events.

Deck: Legacy MUD 12-16-17.dec

Counts : 61 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:16
1 Walking Ballista
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Kuldotha Forgemaster
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Sundering Titan
1 Blightsteel Colossus

Spells:21
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Grim Monolith
1 Lightning Greaves
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Mirage Mirror
2 Staff of Domination
3 Trinisphere
1 Bottled Cloister
1 Ghirapur Orrery
1 Karn Liberated
1 Spine of Ish Sah
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Lands:24
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Buried Ruin
1 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Vesuva

Sideboard:15
1 Walking Ballista
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Duplicant
1 Platinum Angel
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Orbs of Warding
2 All Is Dust

Some of the changes are going to be odd, some will be more obvious. The petrified field has been the oddest land out in an open meta. If i thought wasteland were endemic i would still run it. Instead of it and one cavern, i am going to run 2 factories, which are solid blockers and allow another avenue for t2 combo. Also trying out mb a mirage mirror. While i have been drawing my deck as my most often win con, it feels like too much value to be ignored. It can mimic a prison piece on an opponent's turn, or a threat on mine. Don't know if it is correct, but we are going to try it. Also would be hilarious to copy a gisselbrand. Wanna see it happen at least once.

Sb choices: put the 2nd ballista in the sb, because d and t exists. And so does infect. And elves. Etc. Duplicant is another clean answer to show and tell, and can remove any creature based threats. Ive seen a bunch of creature based decks, as well as 4c leo on the rise, obv. So i am going to also try out o stone. Its a cheaper, faster wipe than either all is dust or ugin. See what happens.

Thoughts? I havent played comp legacy in a few months. Any odd shifts in the meta lately?

[malfie13]

1) In regards to sphere effects, they are all there for specific things. T1 is always thorn, vs most decks, t2 is always golem. T1 thorn cascades issues for opponents. Think about the many t1s it shuts down. T1 mox diamond is slower. T1 ponder, perordain or bs is off. All the t1s are slower. Lodestone plus thorn is game ending vs anything not named death and taxes.

2)sphere of resistence came in vs nothing but creature combo, as i am pre boarded vs non creature combo. Id rather run boardwipes vs creature decks.

3) I love staff of nin, and it has tested well. Its a better mine effect than coercive portal, but worse than cloister, or orrery. I had to cut something for the mirage mirror, tho. I dont know if that is correct, but i am also running 2 staff, so in an attrition battle i dont have a shortage of draw power, and vs leovold decks im not stuck with a 6 drop timmie that draws my opponents cards and blows up a strix.

5) That immortal sun card is spicey, but who slams a better walker than ugin or karn unless dack faden? Lol. I mean, if nic fit is endemic in your lgs, go for it. In an open meta, its too cute.

6) Ive got my wastelands always ready, but the loss of tempo has never been good. Whenever ive tried, ive gotten blown out for trying. There are just better answers vs any deck than wasting them. Except the best waste effect ever, sundering titan.

I hope that the updates to my list translate well. I got hit by d and t a few times bc they just played a t1 or 2 vial amd wasted or poted me into oblivion, at least g1. Thats another reason i cut down on a thorn, at least for now. Im going to try to work thorn 4 back into the board. I just dont like sphere of resistance. I make a lot of mana, but until its infinite, taxing myself can also cost games.