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Thread: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

  1. #4741
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverflame View Post
    I tested the 15 planeswalker build and it felt soft to counters since we don't have many ways to draw or cheat stuff into play. Maybe defense grid can help.
    I couldnt disagree more. I've been testing and almost every Walker draws cards, without using the word draw, so it even gets around narset. I played a local, and went 3-1. If the matches I played vs grixis and miracles were real, it would have been 6-1. It's a real deck. I dunno if it's what I'd take to a big comp event. I also dont know that I wouldnt.
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  2. #4742
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    The one loss was to infect, so there that. The match still sucks.
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  3. #4743

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by malfie13 View Post
    Spells:33
    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Voltaic Key
    4 Grim Monolith
    2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Trinisphere
    4 Karn, Scion of Urza
    4 Karn, the Great Creator
    4 Thran Dynamo
    3 Ugin, the Ineffable
    2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

    Lands:25
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 Blast Zone
    1 Buried Ruin
    1 City of Traitors
    4 Cloudpost
    1 Crystal Vein
    4 Glimmerpost
    2 Thespian's Stage
    3 Vesuva
    2 Wasteland
    Hi Malfie13,
    question : why do you pack only 1 City while running 4 Chalice and Grim/Trinisphere ?
    I get that losing lands is not ideal while we try to ramp, but turn 1 plays are so good we can't offer the chance for the opponent to Daze/Pierce it, IMO.
    Plus the fact that 8 sol lands increase your turn 2 Karn probabilities.

  4. #4744
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    There are really only so many land slots. I'm also running a vein, so its functionally 2 cities. It's really, really important to hit a curve in this deck. It doesnt rely on metalworker ramp, so its obviously slightly less absurd than traditional mud. Also the curve is lower, in general, even counting ugin and newlamog
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  5. #4745
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by malfie13 View Post
    There are really only so many land slots. I'm also running a vein, so its functionally 2 cities. It's really, really important to hit a curve in this deck. It doesnt rely on metalworker ramp, so its obviously slightly less absurd than traditional mud. Also the curve is lower, in general, even counting ugin and newlamog
    I'm on full set cities and veins now, I want to hit 4 mana as soon as possible

    Isn't the second city always better than the first vein btw?

    I like the new "welder", combines greatly with the old one. Searching for Sundering Titan, weld it in, thank you very much

  6. #4746
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Airwave View Post
    I'm on full set cities and veins now, I want to hit 4 mana as soon as possible

    Isn't the second city always better than the first vein btw?
    Agreed. 4 mana is the most mportant amount. Hwr, vein doesnt HAVE to be scrapped when you upgrade lands. Obv it will often be, but not always. I'm considering going up a city tho. Dunno. Still a work in progress
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  7. #4747
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Ok, so I've gone 5.0 and 4.0 in succession over the past two legacy events I've played. I'm relatively happy with the deck as is. I've even won all the expo matches I've played with it. It's gross. I'm probably going to run it at scg con. Wish me luck, I intend to claim glory. It wont be for lack of trying if I don't. I hope that they put my ass on camera, but I doubt it. I think it's the same time as the modern event .
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  8. #4748
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by malfie13 View Post
    Ok, so I've gone 5.0 and 4.0 in succession over the past two legacy events I've played. I'm relatively happy with the deck as is. I've even won all the expo matches I've played with it. It's gross. I'm probably going to run it at scg con. Wish me luck, I intend to claim glory. It wont be for lack of trying if I don't. I hope that they put my ass on camera, but I doubt it. I think it's the same time as the modern event .
    Mind sharing your list? If not publicly, maybe via PM?

  9. #4749
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by malfie13 View Post
    Ok, so I've gone 5.0 and 4.0 in succession over the past two legacy events I've played. I'm relatively happy with the deck as is. I've even won all the expo matches I've played with it. It's gross. I'm probably going to run it at scg con. Wish me luck, I intend to claim glory. It wont be for lack of trying if I don't. I hope that they put my ass on camera, but I doubt it. I think it's the same time as the modern event .
    Good luck!!

  10. #4750
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by TLK View Post
    Mind sharing your list? If not publicly, maybe via PM?
    Definitely...after the event. Either way I'll share my experiences, good or bad. I'm pretty zoned in tho. I'm hopeful for this and will do my best!
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by malfie13 View Post
    Definitely...after the event. Either way I'll share my experiences, good or bad. I'm pretty zoned in tho. I'm hopeful for this and will do my best!
    How'd you end up doing?

  12. #4752

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    They just spoiled an upgraded Voltaic Key.

    Manifold Key 1
    1: Tap: Untap another target artifact
    3: Tap: Target creature can't be blocked this turn.



    How essential is Chalice?

    I'm wondering if it's worth it to play 10 Monoliths, 8 Voltaic Key (also untap Metalworker), a couple of Candelabra of Tawnos to pair with Cloudpost and just aim to hardcast massive Walking Ballistas and Emrakul's every game.

  13. #4753

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    They just spoiled an upgraded Voltaic Key.

    Manifold Key 1
    1: Tap: Untap another target artifact
    3: Tap: Target creature can't be blocked this turn.



    How essential is Chalice?

    I'm wondering if it's worth it to play 10 Monoliths, 8 Voltaic Key (also untap Metalworker), a couple of Candelabra of Tawnos to pair with Cloudpost and just aim to hardcast massive Walking Ballistas and Emrakul's every game.
    Sounds like too much air to me, but I may be wrong, tutors exist after all. Also london mulligan...

    I'd say chalice is very essential. Sometimes it's a 2 mana game-win. Also due to the inherent inconsistency issues of playing a generic sol-land deck, we need to put cantrip based decks in a worse position from the start as often as possible.

  14. #4754
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Hi guys. Sorry about the delay. I'm going to post something a little more official as time permits, but I had two big legacy weekends back to back. First I had scgcon, where I ran the list in two side events the day before the main event going 5.3, technically 5.2.1, but we played it out and I lost. I also brought stoneblade where I went 8.0 in side events. Aaaaand I played stoneblade for the main event, lol. That said. I also had a charity event last week in CT which garners a lot of people, this time 78. I went 4.3 in the main event, scooping to my mirror opponent at 3.2 in the Hope's his better breakers would put him in the t8. Sadly it didnt despite my winning the last round. I'll post a bunch of observations and recommendations for going forward in the coming days. Being a part time worker and full time dad is time draining. Lol.
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Ps the mirror would have been a draw
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  16. #4756
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Sorry about the delay. I lost my notebook in my office for like a week. Thankfully I found it. Actually my son found it entirely by accident so thank him. I'll hopefully get to type up my exact match results soon. That and ofc just general reactions and my changes since.
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  17. #4757
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    In the meantime, who else is in love with the colorless bolas citidel and voltaic key upgrades?
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Key and Forge seems hit to me (on MTG, not Keyforge).
    Golos could be used to fetch something like dark depths or cloudposts, dunno. Cascading Cataracts can make his ability work, but I think just the land fetching is enough. He being a Scout is kinda upsetting.

  19. #4759
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Mystic Forge seems to be a really powerful inclusion to colorless decks.
    Originally Posted by Forbiddian

    "Drawing it consistently" is a joke. It doesn't matter whether you have 10 copies or 1 copy. Some games you'll start with it. Some games you'll start without it
    .

    I'm thoroughly convinced that talking to you morons kills braincells. Your parent's should have been sterilized.

  20. #4760
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    SCG CON 2019 Roanoke, VA. Side Events KARNPOST Report, also Gaming for Gains 8 Event Report. The following is only general observations. A Match Report will hopefully follow soon-ish.


    SCG Con Decklist:
    Counts : 61 main / 15 sideboard

    Creatures:3
    3 Walking Ballista

    Artifacts:19
    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Voltaic Key
    4 Grim Monolith
    2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Trinisphere
    4 Thran Dynamo

    Others:13
    4 Karn, Scion of Urza
    4 Karn, the Great Creator
    3 Ugin, the Ineffable
    2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

    Lands:26
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 Blast Zone
    1 Buried Ruin
    1 City of Traitors
    4 Cloudpost
    1 Crystal Vein
    4 Glimmerpost
    1 Karakas
    4 Thespian's Stage
    3 Vesuva

    Sideboard:15
    1 Walking Ballista
    2 Faerie Macabre
    3 Thought-Knot Seer
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Liquimetal Coating
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    2 Sphere of Resistance
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Warping Wail

    Gaming For Gains 8 Decklist:


    Counts : 61 main / 15 sideboard

    Creatures:4
    2 Walking Ballista
    2 Thought-Knot Seer

    Artifacts:19
    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Voltaic Key
    4 Grim Monolith
    2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Trinisphere
    3 Thran Dynamo

    Others:12
    3 Karn, Scion of Urza
    4 Karn, the Great Creator
    3 Ugin, the Ineffable
    2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

    Lands:26
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Blast Zone
    1 City of Traitors
    4 Cloudpost
    1 Crystal Vein
    4 Glimmerpost
    1 Karakas
    4 Thespian's Stage
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2 Vesuva

    Sideboard:15
    1 Walking Ballista
    1 Thought-Knot Seer
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Helm of Obedience
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    2 Warping Wail
    3 Leyline of the Void
    1 Karn Liberated
    1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

    I played only side events with MUD during SCG Con. It became clear to me that I didn't have the requisite practice and therefore familiarity with the new configuration of the deck to properly execute a clear game plan in the main tournament. I ended my two trial runs by going 2-2 in the first and 3-1 in the second. By comparison I went 8-0 in side events with two last rd splits with Stoneblade. The following weekend I played a larger local legacy event for charity in Connecticut called Gaming for Gains. I will add observations and match reports for that to this same document.

    I'm going to put my topline observations first in case you don't really want to delve into the minutia of my mistakes in specific matches.

    1) My game plan was much better when I had a spyglass to clearly figure out what my opponent was up to. Since SCG con I implemented some fixes that have helped immeasurably. One thing I did immediately was put in the thought knot seers in the main board. They added more information to my game plan and also became extra stone walls early in the game. I've since built all three ts into the Main Board and moved a ballista to the SB.
    2) We are still weak to wasteland. Obviously we can win with zero lands in plan and lord knows I did a couple of times. That said it isn't nearly as clean or easy. Crucible is a wasted spot imo though. We have precious few flex slots. They free up a little depending on the number of the Karn, Scion of Urzas you choose to run. I've got thoughts about that....
    3) Namely that Karn, SOU is generally awful. I spent a bunch of resources to cast him, and his abilities were rarely useful. You either get the lesser of two evils when plusing, spending turns and resources to cast Creator to get the exiled cards, which then you may or may not be able to cast, or other wise making a dude who cannot swing under the bridge.
    4) Drawing cards is bad, putting cards is great. Narset is a pain in the ass. Generally. I kind of hope that the card bites it, but for the time being it makes our strategy better.
    5) The best card in the entire deck is blast zone. Bar none. There were many games I shouldn't and couldn't have won without it. It is very hard to interact with, and most decks only have 4 wastelands and no way to recur them easily.
    6) 4 Trinisphere seemed wrong and generally didn't feel necessary. I didn't see a lot of storm in either day, and even without lodestone, who I greatly miss, I didn't feel like the match was substantially worse.
    7) Chalice got harder to put on not 0 or 1. We have a larger spread of relevant spell costs in our deck, making a diversified chalice spread hard. Also, it makes is less easy because we can't cavern trick in a creature through a chalice if there aren't any creatures.

    Notes on specifically the MIRROR:

    8) Obviously posts are symmetrical. Playing the first post is key. If you don't hit the first post, thespian's stage activation targeting posts at eot is key.
    9) The win cons get really awkward. Everyone runs bridge and everyone runs needle effects, and opposing karn turns off ballista. Game gets super icky. A mb Karn Daddy (Liberated) or sb Spine of Ish Sah feels correct if the meta includes a lot of Karn on all sides. I definitely enjoyed the Liberated in my deck at Gaming for Gains, but wish to God I had the sb spine.
    10) Remember that exiling an opposing artifact with anything, including TKS and Karn Daddy is temporary with opposing Karn, the Newers still active and not needled.
    11) Pack your lunch. With 4 Karns, 2 Spyglasses and many ways to hit a bridge, the game is a drag out grind. Blast zone is your friend, especially if your opponent isn't running a full set.

    SB Notes:

    A) Now that the new mulligan is active I feel fairly confident that the correct amount of leylines is 3. We can usually hit them when needed. Also, I still like fae. They're fine. They are just not a t0 play. Either way they cannot be removed, must be seen or guessed to be needled, which they CAN BE.

    B) I don't know how much Karn will be in the meta, but one thing that definitely is has become Arcanist. It has to be answered immediately or otherwise a quick bridge or something is instantly necessary. The ability to flash back almost every relevant card in the deck can be gross even with a chalice out bc of Pyromancer. I think that UR delver went from a race for chalice / 3 ball with few relevant threats other than wasteland, to a worse than toss up match. They're pretty much off price of progress, or have cut down to one bc of the lack of ability to flash back with arcanist. On the other hand they now get hit by leyline where they didn't, and can't remove it in UR. I dunno if its really great vs them anyway. They are running a main board abrade. They also get hit hard by staging a blast zone and blowing up tokens. Vesuvaing a blast zone copies and brings in on one counter, but staging it creates a zone with zero counters. Don't let them have their one drops. Their best way to overrun us is with raw card selection. Getting to multiple wasteland us and create a ton or 1xs to swing under bridge is their fastest route to victory.

    C) TKS MB vs SB. I have come to the conclusion that the TKS is best served split, but I really really like them MB. Having a peek and seize effect can be meta breaking. It doesn't die to bolt, and push becomes the best one mana answer to it. It also just gives the heads up to what to play s and around g1. Post board, I like often taking TKS out vs many fair decks, but its never really turned completely off.

    D) Warping Wail vs Spacial Contortion. This can be a super meta call. If you're in a meta with a lot of random creature decks, contortion can be fine. If not I like Wail better. The random hits on counter magic are real. Even things like life from the loam can be a good hit. Depends where you are in the game, but councils judgment, cataclysm, life from the loam, dark petition and infernal tutor in storm, etc – there are just so many juicy targets in an open meta. Even something as simple as protecting your hand from a thoughtseize or hymn can be very important.

    E) Newlamog vs spine and or Karn, Liberated. Newlamog hits two permanents, and cannot be needled. On the other hand he costs 10, and cannot swing under bridge unless we exile out own bridge, which can be done. I like Spine best currently, for the same reason as newlamog – it cannot be needled. Additionally it is a g1 answer to generally problematic things like planeswalkers and even BTB.


    Final Observations:

    Chalice 1 vs voltaic key on the play is a difficult question. I have yet to completely settle, but I lean towards key. The card allows for an absurd amount of acceleration. If the t1 involves a t1 monolith, key and something else the choice is even simpler. On the draw, obviously the t1 play by the opponent tends to dictate the choice for us. If they play a blue land and hold up spell pierce or we are concerned about daze, we play which ever is more likely to helps less, which is probably key. If we are most concerned about daze, obviously we hope for sol land and key to dodge daze. Lately I have been getting mana rocks forced when playing a t1 key, so don't lean on that too, too heavily. People learn I suppose.

    I'll try to put together a more match oriented observation log asap. Obviously it's been difficult for me to pull aside time lately, but I will do what I can.
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