[Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

[(nameless one)]

Has anyone tested Staff of Nin? With my limited testing, I find it to be a great piece during the mid game. It feeds Metalworker/refills the hand, removes X/1 creatures (or X/2 with Voltaic Keys) and its hard to deal with. I think two should be good.

[Esper3k]

Has anyone tested Staff of Nin? With my limited testing, I find it to be a great piece during the mid game. It feeds Metalworker/refills the hand, removes X/1 creatures (or X/2 with Voltaic Keys) and its hard to deal with. I think two should be good.

I wasn't a huge fan of it when I played it. The problem is that it's rarely going to come down early enough to really get many X/1's before they do their damage (Goblin Lackey, Bob, unflipped Delvers, etc.).

The card draw is nice and really good against the control decks but pretty horrible against aggro.

I opted to play +1 Batterskull, +1 All Is Dust instead to give me more of an edge against the aggro decks but yet still have cards that are decent against control.

I play the MUD Stompy list, so your thoughts may be different if you're playing the Forgemaster or red builds.

For me, every time I cast something that's 5 mana+, I want my opponent to need a new pair of underwear and Staff of Nim just doesn't really do that.

[Fry]

I play two Staff of Nin in my deck and I love them, started off with one to see how I liked it and uped it to two after a tourney or two. I play Forgemaster and I think it's a fantastic card and I've never had it been anything but good for me. I liked when I played it and pinged my opponent redirecting the damage to kill off either a Lilly or a JtMS (done that a couple times). I do play the full set of Metalworker and the Staff makes me more willing to play all of my hand with the extra draw each turn.

[bobomb]

Thought I would throw my MUD list into the pile... Only played it in a casual environment for now, but it runs pretty well.

I'm enjoying what Semblance Anvil can do. I know most people will say it isn't good enough for legacy, but here's my logic: It has the same CC as Trinisphere, but instead of slowing your opponent, it speeds up yourself. It has the card disadvantage of Mox Diamond, but it also makes Grim Monolith, Chalice of the void @2, Myr Superion, Lightning Greaves and Voltaic Key free to play. I've included 2 Bottled Cloister in the main for the draw engine, but it also protects my hand from discard.

In the near future I will replace the 4 mountain with 4 Cavern of Souls and the Crystal Vein with a 4th City of Traitors.



19 Creatures
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Metalworker
4 Goblin Welder
4 Myr Superion
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Sundering Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine

21 Spells
4 Grim Monolith
4 Semblance Anvil
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Lightning Greaves
1 Staff of Domination
1 Spine of Ish Sah
2 Bottled Cloister
3 Voltaic Key

20 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
1 Crystal Vein
4 Great Furnace
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Mountain

[Bionitech]

Has anyone at all tested Karn, Silver Golem? At worst he can hold off a goyf and at best he can render equipment useless and turn your Dynamos and Trinispheres into beatsticks. I mean, I'd feel pretty satisfied using his ability when a Jitte equipped spirit token is ready to fly at me and turn off the equipment entirely. I run two in my deck but I haven't played in a while. I will post results when I get a chance.

[Alex Holland]

Has anyone at all tested Karn, Silver Golem? At worst he can hold off a goyf and at best he can render equipment useless and turn your Dynamos and Trinispheres into beatsticks. I mean, I'd feel pretty satisfied using his ability when a Jitte equipped spirit token is ready to fly at me and turn off the equipment entirely. I run two in my deck but I haven't played in a while. I will post results when I get a chance.

He doesnt do much good. Id play batterskull as 5 drop over him alll day.

[(nameless one)]

He does slow down Batterskull. If a Batterskull equipped creature attacks, use Karn to detach Batterskull from that creature.

[Alex Holland]

When seeing a batterskull i get revokers in on stoneforge ;)..
Just played some crazy games against pox.. hymns were killing me. However wurmcoil saved the day with karn liberated next to him.would have went faster with a steelhellkite.

Also played something bgw with deathrite shaman/ tarmogoyf.. lost horrible. Only all is dust could have saved me there.

One more thing: my metalworkers were useless during all 4 games i played! Only cannon fodder. This may be coincedence.

[(nameless one)]

What is the current consensus with Metalworker? Most of the time, it's a removal target but if it works, it wins you games.

I get that it's a must remove for the opponent but does it carry its load when it comes to being an important piece in the deck. Without Batterskull or any equipment to power it up, it's useless late game.

Personally I think it's value waned. Think about it, in the early game, I'd rather want lock pieces in the form of Chalice, 3Sphere or Tangle Wire. Hell, Revokers are also good early game to stop Deathrite Shamans from going crazy. Mid game, you either want Lodestone Golem, Wurmcoil Engine or something like that.

Granted, Metalworker can offer broken plays but how reliant is this deck to broken plays? How viable is a Metalworker into a Forgemaster into a Blightsteel Colossus play?

Outside of Metalworker, the Sol lands and the depowered Moxen, the deck doesn't really have the acceleration it's Vintage counterpart has. The deck is somehow more Midrange. I believe the goal of this archetype is to become the king of Midrange. It's trying to be a watered down combo deck. It's a great aggro deck in a sense that you can bash face with a turn 2-3 Wurmcoil Engine but the deck doesn't have the luxury of being a spot removal proof unlike the other aggro decks.

Although I will contradict myself by saying for it to be king of Midrange, the deck does need broken early plays, which I believe the dilemma the archetype is facing.

[Bionitech]

Honestly MUD needs needs NEEDS Metalworker in order to work. At worst it eats a bolt/StP/Path and at best it can win you the game. MUD requires serious turn 1 plays and Metalworker is one of them, if not Metalworker than it's the lockpieces. Turning it into a midrange deck means removing the possibility of the deck doing things that are actually broken and what makes the deck competitive. Without Metalworker, it's just a beefier Affinity with fewer plays.

This is a thread about Metalworker MUD. Not Red Stompy, Not Affinity Midrange and certainly NOT Dragon Stompy. This is MUD, the mono brown menace that people seldom see coming and when metalworker hits the board T1 and survives, then son, you deserve to make the opponent regret not doing anything about it.

On another note, Batterskulls over Karn, Silver Golem mainboard? That seems like a better option but is there any chance MUD has had some success as a semi-Stax list or am I living in a dreamworld?

[Alex Holland]

Last like 20 games i played metalworker has been usable about 1-2 times.

Now i do play mud stompy so the maximum amount of mana i need is 7.

However i must say that every time i get a duress or lightning bolt or whatever in my direction they always pick metalworker. Like mosten often its a dead draw for me but they all go for the bait!

i now play these creatures: 4 wurmcoil 4 batterskull 3 metalworker 3 godo 4 lodestone. However i am considering losing the 3 metalworker to 3 p. revoker mainboard. Its so essential against canadian trash, c. breakfast, liliana, jace.. I only like the wurms for their deatouch ability against real fat guys like KOR...

i also uped my ability to get back from a losing position: i now play 3 karn liberated main and 2 all is dust. They have really proven themself time and time again.

[kingofethanol]

Has anyone tested Staff of Nin? With my limited testing, I find it to be a great piece during the mid game. It feeds Metalworker/refills the hand, removes X/1 creatures (or X/2 with Voltaic Keys) and its hard to deal with. I think two should be good.

I have also thought about this card. It's sweet on paper, but I have not come up with a final consensus either. With Death and Taxes re-emerging perhaps it isn't a bad choice. It kills Revoker, Thalia, Bob, Clique, Baleful Strix (haha, that guy plays around Lodestone Golem so darn well) but at 6 mana (7 with Thalia) it just seems too late. I am not running Key, but I can imagine it to be very powerful in lists that do. Shardless Agent decks are chock full of x/2s, I'd imagine it would be hard to beat two Staff activations, with the addition of drawing a card or two(!).

Karn, Silver Golem doesn't seem like a bad addition in some metagames. He's an excellent blocker, good against Affinity (drops C. Platings and wastes lands) and obviously helps against the Stoneforge decks. The interaction between him and Spine of Ish Sah seems fun. Trade with a KotR, recycle and Vindicate once more, etc. Probably not a commonly seen play these days, but who knows.

I have always stood with the 4x Metalworker plan. When he is on the stack with ~3 cards in hand your opponent needs to respond, or know with confidence that your hand does not need him. I've chatted with some players: it is far easier to deal with Metalworker than it is to let him resolve and then try to deal with the threats that come after. Slamming two threats at a time is very overwhelming for a lot of decks. Like most decks it is incorrect to rely on one card entirely. Playing carefully would make MW relatively low-risk and high-reward.

I've put some Tangle Wire in my 75. While it can buy you a few turns it just seems terrible to draw late game. Decks that play instant speed spells can easily work around it, too. After a few small tourneys I took it out. If someone has found success with Tangle Wire, please respond. I like the card a lot and would like to know how powerful it is or isn't.

I've also been running a few Thirst for Knowledge. I have avoided the red build for some time now, as I rather have Chalice on 1 with no draw backs. The extra card draw TFK provides has pushed the deck's play by a tad more, and I've been impressed. It can advance you, dig you out of bad scenarios, discard your BSC, and can make Metalworker activations more powerful (draw 3, discard useless cards, tap for 6 or more, etc). I've played with Jon Finkel's world champ deck from the Urza block ages, and the deck runs Brainstorm. Casting BS with MW in play was absolutely absurd. TFK is as close as it gets.

While obviously powerful, I have avoided Batterskull due to Abrupt Decay. It's annoying to lose your 5-drop blocker to a 2 mana spell. I would play Batterskull if StP/Terminus was more prevalent than AD. Just a meta call on my part.

I do believe you can make a Stax list work. You can 1 for 1 in tempo plays and permanents while you set up mana rocks. I can imagine Thran Dynamo would be very strong, and Key would be played to keep your Monoliths alive under lock. Myr Battlesphere can make you go very aggressive with the Smokestack/Tangle Wire plan. So perhaps a Chalice-in-the-board build with Keys and Sensei's Divining Tops?

I'm not much of a standard player, but I suddenly realized that this deck can resemble what the Aristocrats, Act2 is to standard. We have a great mid-range plan, with the ability to combo off and win when given the opportunity (Blightsteel, Staff, Chalice against some decks; Boros Reckoner, Blasphemous Act). We have the ability to play safe or go big. Choosing when to do so makes the player, I guess.

[Esper3k]

My current list runs 3x Metalworker and it's been fine. There were too many times where you get to untap with him (and gods forbid you have a Key) and just go nuts regardless of the build you're playing.

I've played with both Staff of Nim and Karn, Silver Golem. Fundamentally, I just liked having more Batterskulls, Karn Liberateds, and All Is Dust.

[Alex Holland]

Esper3k,

What are u running? Sounds like my version

Ot: i apologise for dissing karn silver golem, yesterday i tested him instead of godo. Why? Bcuz i run 3 thran dynamo and 4 batterskull. Batterskull is kinda mana intensive to get back online after the germ dies so 1 mana 5/5 is kinda cool. Ill post my kick ass list later today.

[Esper3k]

I haven't played the deck in awhile, but here's the list I had been working with when I last played it:

// Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (1)
3 [M12] Buried Ruin
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
4 [MPR] Wasteland
4 [EX] City of Traitors

// Creatures
4 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
4 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
4 [WWK] Lodestone Golem
3 [UD] Metalworker

// Spells
4 [UL] Grim Monolith
1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
2 [NPH] Karn Liberated
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
3 [M11] Voltaic Key
4 [ARC] Thran Dynamo
3 [NPH] Batterskull
1 [ROE] All Is Dust

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
SB: 1 [NPH] Karn Liberated
SB: 1 [NPH] Batterskull
SB: 1 [ROE] All Is Dust
SB: 4 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
SB: 3 [US] Smokestack
SB: 2 [MI] Cursed Totem
SB: 2 [DS] Trinisphere

[Zirath]

@Staff: I've been ambivalent. Sometimes it's wonderful and sometimes it just contributes to the deck's excessive mana curve.

@Karn, Silver Golem: I've always wanted to try him but never got around to it. With the specific suite of cards we play in Stompy, I think he could very successful.

[Alex Holland]

This is what i have been testing. getting very mixed results:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Rishadan Port

4 Lodestone Golem
4 Batterskull
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Metalworker
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Karn, Silver Golem

4 Chalice of the Void

3 Karn Liberated
2 All Is Dust

3 Thran Dynamo
4 Grim Monolith

SB: 4 Trinisphere
SB: 4 Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Crucible of Worlds
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb

NOTE: karakas any good here? just got legendary kicked..

[Bionitech]

Went 3-2-0 At a local store with MUD Stompy. The list goes as follows.

Land - 22
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Rishadan Port
3 Cavern of Souls

Creatures
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Blighsteel Colossus
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Sundering Titan

Artifact
4 Grim Monolith
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Mox Diamond
3 Batterskull
2 Voltaic Key
2 Lightning Greaves
1 Crucible of Worlds

Sideboard
3 Tangle Wire
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Staff of Domination
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 All is Dust


The two games lost were to tempo lists like Death & Taxes and Junk Deathblade. After emptying my hand they could recover better than I could and overwhelm me. Also I mulled down again the Taxes deck and not getting a chalice both games, which really spelled only doom for me.

Three games won were Omnitell, MonoU MUD and Storm.
Storm was played by a buddy of mine and he knew what I was packing, so he practically gave me a 2-0 (we played it out, match for us didn't even last 5 min as I had a chalice and trin sphere both games)
MonoU MUD was a fairly janky list that just could not stop me powering out hard and hitting with all my finishers.
OmniTell was a close and very lucky game. I had him port locked with a trinisphere and even when he had omiscience out he was down on land (landed sundering titan and had factories hitting him, he couldn't win outright because he was paying an alternate cost for his spells and the cost was not needing to pay the mana cost, and trinisphere essentially made them pay 3...for that "free" spell) and G2 I kept a hand with spine of ish sah and baited metalworker. The moment he revealed his Show & Tell as Emrakul, it died to the Spine and I proceeded to hit him down with an animated spine via Karn. It was a very, very lucky game.

The metagame in my area is very good and is also very tough, filled with a lot of skilled players. So for a deck like MUD it's a serious trial by fire and it's not a metagame that is friendly to combo players either, so I encounter games where I just lose because I don't mulligan aggressively enough. Also fun fact the featured deck that day was Oops, All Spells (Budget zero land deck that went 4-1, it's insane).

[HansonWK]

This is the list I've been playing with for the last month. It changes week by week though really. New additions are moving the Chalice to main, I have a lot of delver decks and UWR, BUG, its great against all of them.

1 Mox Opal
2 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
1 Mox Diamond
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
4 Great Furnace
1 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls

3 Goblin Welder
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Metalworker
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Steel Hellkite

1 Staff of Nin
1 Lightning Greaves
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
1 Staff of Domination

2 Karn Liberated

SB: 3 Faithless Looting
SB: 2 Duplicant
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Steel Hellkite
SB: 1 Goblin Welder
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage

Faithless Looting normally go in when the Chalice's come out. Duplicant is for Omnishow, the mirror, and any other deck that plays annoying creatures. I came first as last weeks legacy, 3rd at the one previous, and 3rd the time before that (we have evetns every 2 weeks)

[(nameless one)]

Wouldn't you consider Revokers on the main with all the Deathrite Shamans in the format? Its also great in stopping planeswalkers.