As mentioned above i think that chalice of the void is pretty needed to back up our fatties...
Honestly is this deck competitive nowadays??
A monobrown list just got second in yesterday's SCG event...
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=46654
Is the deck Tier 1? Probably not. I can't really remember a time when a Chalice Stompy deck (lumping us in with this generalization) could really be considered Tier 1, but that's more of a function of the archetype's philosophy. We exist to prey on the Tier 1 decks, not to become one. As such, while our deck might not place in every event, we do put up a decent showing. Even limiting the sample size to just the SCG opens, you can see that we still show up in the money a nonzero amount of the time.
Well I think that I did a pretty good job at the open (I'm Eric Fry) R1 I beat Counter Top, R2 I beat esperblade, R3 lost to burn(tombs are bad here!), R4 beat esperblade, R5 beat high tide in three games with 23 minutes left in round, R6 beat Dead Guy Ale, R7 I beat RUG, R8 I beat Gerry T playing Dredge, and R9 I drew with Joey who was playing Sneak and Show and we played a few games for fun and it was a pretty close match pre board, didn't bother siding.
Why does this deck not run Cavern of Souls?
Like, name Construct for uncounterable Metalworker/Forgemaster, or name whatever else you're about to hardcast? There's no drawback to the colorless aspect, and I think I'd take some uncounterability on the best 8 cards in my deck in exchange for running a couple less artifact lands.
Congrats on the finish. It's a shame you had to face Canadian at the finals. That deck is hard to play against since they run a lot of permission.
Any advices and would be changes on your build?
You can also name Goblin and have Goblin Welder and Chalice on the same build.
Also from M13:
Possibly a Goblin package for cheat shenanigans. You can even use Goblin Matron to tutor one or the other.Rummaging Goblin 2R
Creature - Goblin Rogue
tap, discard a card: Draw a card
1/1
I honestly didn't think of the Cavern of Souls. Great call, that does make the welders viable with my build and I would cut the three Great Furnace and perhaps one Citadel for them so I could name Construct, Goblin, or Golem. The only down side that I see of doing this though is that the artifact count of the deck will have gone down, which can potentially make going of with Metalworker/Staff a little harder, which is not vital to the deck, so it seems like a fair trade to me. In that case I would likely cut out one of the three sundering titans, perhaps put the Hellkite in the side, and one other thing for three Welders. Just have to do some testing in the end I suppose ^_^
I see a lot of lists that place well have staff of domination in it, but I've never been overly satisfied with it in the deck. I'd love to hear some of the thoughts from players who have used it in their lists to success and see what its merits are. As far as metalworker goes I think most people run 0, 3, 4. I think 3 is the correct way to go most of the time, especially since most lists aren't running greaves or anything to enable haste.
What lists don't run Greaves?
Every list should run Greaves now that Cavern of Souls exists. Catching your opponent tapped out can just result in their death, period. If they can't counter or remove a hasted Forgemaster, it's usually over.
Also, is one Hellkite enough? I'm just getting more into this deck and kind of find I like a pair. I find it to be a complete beast both against Maverick and RUG Delver, and if it gets a Greaves, it kind of singlehandedly goes all EDH on both of their faces, sweeping their board and eating life totals.
I wouldn't run less than 2 Hellkites. That thing can be so boss it's not even funny. In the lists without forgemaster I would advocate running 3. My thing with greaves is it's amazing because it puts your acceleration on par with decks on lower curves, but you hate seeing multiples, and it doesn't change the board state at all on its own. I certainly wish we could do without them, and I've been trying to make my lists work without using greaves, but it feels like I'm playing metal goblins sometimes with the broken stuff tapping a turn earlier can do.
Has anybody considered Witchbane Orb to support your chalice and spheres against combo and burn?
I've seen people sporting 1-of in the sideboard of the Forgemaster builds. It's also very popular in Classic builds.
The only problem is it doesn't really slow down TES/ANT, because they will fire off an Ad Nauseam, draw their deck, and find a way to bounce it (assuming you don't have them locked out with CotV). Agaisnt burn, CotV on 1 usually is enough to buy some time to play a Wurmcoil Engine.
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/bus...ide=&strict=on
This is by the way the current list I will be testing:
blightsteel colossus: 1
sundering titan: 2
goblin welder: 4
kuldotha forgemaster: 4
lodestone golem: 4
metalworker: 4
wurmcoil engine: 3
(22)
reforge the soul: 1
(1)
blood moon: 1
(1)
mindslaver: 1
spine of ish sah: 1
staff of domination: 1
lightning greaves: 2
lotus petal: 2
mox opal: 1
grim monolith: 4
chalice of the void: 4
batterskull: 1
(17)
buried ruin: 1
darksteel citadel: 2
mountain: 1
ancient tomb: 4
city of traitors: 4
great furnace: 3
cavern of souls: 4
(19)
----
tormod's crypt: 3
trinisphere: 3
witchbane orb: 1
spellskite: 2
chaos warp: 1
stell hellkite: 2
blood moon: 2
wurmcoil engine: 1
I removed additional disruption elements such as tangle wire and trinisphere from the main to just apply redundant beats and a streamlined acceleration package that can ensure plays almost every turn on normal draws. I added a combo package in a few forms, so I'm trying to wrap the aggro semi-prison shell around a combo core to really take advantage of the explosiveness the deck can generate. Side board seems standard to compounding what the main deck is trying to do and offering enough broad utility to be relevant in their selection.
I just played the deck in a Mox Tournament. Unfortunately I didn't get there. It was a 2-3 drop for 6 rounds.
I will post a mini-tournament report later and answer a couple questions later after I get home.
My demise was essentially punting and I punted so bad, it was actually talked about by buddies.
Within the week, on my testing I had removed it and put it back. Hasted anything on the deck is too good. The shroud is just a bonus LOL.
Right before the tournament I read this and I thought it was a sign. I switched my last undecided slot (from Batterskull) to Hellkite and it has actually won me games.
Thank you for giving me a sign.
I guess it's just a metacall.
As for the tournament, here's what I submitted for a decklist:
Michael Bay Presents:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Great Furnace
2 Mountain
4 Goblin Welder
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
3 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Sundering Titan
1 Steel Hellkite
4 Grim Monolith
4 Lotus Petal
3 Tangle Wire
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Mox Opal
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Faithless Looting
SB:*
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Ratchet Bomb
Like what I said, I checked the thread before the tournament and ended up switching a miser Batterskull into Hellkite.
Rd1: Fauna Maverick (with Pocari79 here on the Source)
Game one: Turn one Welder into a turn two Faithless Looting welding back Sundering Titan and doing Welder tricks quickly ended game one.
Sideboard: -3 Looting, -2 Top, -1 Welder, -1 Metalworker, +3 Revoker, +4 Chalice
Game two: I go for a Grim Monolith turn one (hoping into an early Forgemaster). On turn two, I draw Chalice and have it on one. Apparently he was holding multiple Swords to Plowshares and a Path to Exile. Chalice ended up attracting Qasali Pridemage but it was too late as by the time he was able to cast the removal spells, I was just dropping robots left and right.
Later on he asked me if I go on the Source. When I said yes, he goes "your (nameless one)!". I was wearing a shirt that says "Keep Calm and Brainstorm". That, the deck and telling him where I from connected all the dots. We talked about other tournaments within the greater Toronto area and stuff. Looking forward to see him again at future tournaments within the area.
Also, there was comotion around because one of the Dredge players hardcasted a Dread Return (achievement unlocked)
1-0 (2-0)
Rd2: Sneak/Show (with Chad)
Game one: I start with a turn one Welder. He goes for an early Show and Tell. He drops Emrakul while I drop Forgemaster. He reads the card. Next turn, I activate it and tutor for Metamorph to Legendary kill Emrakul. I resolve multiple Lodestone and weld in Metamorph copying Lodestone. He kept Pondering and Preordaining and eventually scooped
Sideboard: same with Maverick above
Game two: I first slow him down with Tangle Wires and Wastelands. I casted a Chalice at one but it attracted a Force. I eventually resolved a Welder via Cavern of Souls. Then I resolved Revoker naming Griselbrand. My reasoning was I've already wasted three of his Volcanic Island and he doesn't have other red sources on the field for Sneak Attack. Tangle Wire (with the help of Welder) also kept his land in check. On his turn, he stops a Lotus Petal and used it at the end of his turn to Intuition for Show and Tell. He then resolved S&T in his turn dropping Griselbrand while drop Hellkite. I resolve a Wurmcoil on my turn while he gets his own Wurmcoil with a second S&T (I guess he just drew it) while I only drop a land. He then swings with Griselbrand. At the end of his turn I weld his Wurmcoil for his Petal. On my turn, I swing both Wurmcoil and Hellkite, and destroyed his tokens and Petals with Hellkite. That eventually warranted a scoop shortly.
2-0 (4-0)
Rd3: Canadian with Kird Ape??? (Sunday Funday here on the Source)
Game one: I open with Petal and Sol land into a Metalworker. It gets burned but I already anticipated this. I go with a second Sol land into Lodestone Golem. He FoWs it. I was surprised as I thought he was playing Zoo. I resolve a Welder but it gets burned. I try to resolve Forgemaster but it gets FoWed. While a couple of my lands get Wastelanded. All this while I'm getting beats from Kird Ape and Nimble Mongoose. Tangle Wire actually slowed him down but I just can't draw lands/acceleration as I held multiple Wurmcoils.
Sideboard: -3 Looting, -3 Tangle Wire, - 2 SDT, -1 Welder, +4 Chalice, +3 3sphere, +2 Ratchet Bomb
Game 2: I mull a one lander into three Cavern Souls and robots. My hand was actually slow compared on what he has. I had all Caverns onto the field naming Goblin, Construct, and Golem. I resolve a Metalworker but it eats Ancient Grudge. So did Forgemaster. Welder and Lodestone Golem both eat Bolts. My Wurmcoil gets FoWed. Then I draw into two consecutive Metalworkers while he's got Mongoose and Goyf swinging at my face like they're on bath salt.
2-1 (4-2)
Rd4: Deadguy? (with Wilkin here on the Source)
Game one: A key Wasteland on his W/B land (it wasn't a Scrubland) quickly initiated a scoop on his side.
Sideboard: -3 Looting, -2 SDT, -1 Metamorph, +4 Chalice, +2 Ratchet Bomb
Game two: a turn one double Thoughtsieze with the help of Chrome Mox that removed acceleration from my hand followed by an early Liliana was too much.
Sideboard: -2 Bomb, -1 Metamorph, +3 Revoker
Game three: I mull my six land hand to six and kept a land light hand which turned out to be a mistake. He Thoughtsiezed my acceleration as I am stuck with robots and wasn't drawing any lands. I eventually resolved a Revoker naming Liliana but Dark Confidant, Bitterblossom and Liliana was just all too much for me. Revoker got Vindicated. If only that Revoker was a Ratchet bomb and made a faerie explosions.
2-2 (5-4)
Rd5: ???? With Canadian
Game one: He kept Pondering with only Mongoose on the field as his threat while I slow him down with Tangle Wire. His manabase can't recover off to game 2. This dude was really chatty to the point that he was pissing off the dude on my left side. For some reason, we took forever to play this and by the time we finish this game, there's only 8 minutes left.
Sideboard: -3 Looting, -3 Tangle Wire -2 SDT, -1 I can't remember, +4 Chalice, +3 Trinisphere, +2 Bomb
Game two: all I can say was I punted really good on this game. On a crucial turn (facing a Delver and a couple of Mongeese), I activate a Metalworker with Greaves and revealed 5 artifacts. I misplayed horribly when I go for Wurmcoil first and not 3sphere. It gets FoWed. Though 3sphere also gets FoWed. I tried welding in Wurmcoil but it gets Stifled. I scooped shortly after as I was facing lethal. One of the 'Vintage guys' pointed out that I have Metamorph in hand and enough mana to cast it on that same crazy Metalworker turn copying Welder, equip it with Greaves and weld Wurmcoil the second time. I guess the pressure got the best of me.
Game three: I punted even more again.
On a crucial turn (I was at three facing two 5/6 Goyfs and a 3/3 Scavenging Ooze), I resolve a Forgemaster and had it equiped with Greaves and enough artifacts for Forgemaster and having Greaves stay on the field. But I made a miscalculation. I was about to cheat in Hellkite when I realize my only untapped land wasn't a Sol Land (it was a Cavern). Then the same vintage guy above pointed out that I should have went for Wurmcoil and play defense.
He would have attacked with all three, I block with the Wurmcoil, gain 6 life (bring me back to 9), take 8 (back to one). He has no cards in his hand and Wurmcoil would have had shroud. I could have stayed on the game with that.
2-3 (6-6)
I got paired up round 6 but I just gave my opponent the 2-0 in exchange for Conjurer's Closet for EDH since there's no way I'll make top 8.
Overall the deck was just right. It created buzz from the Vintage regulars. I did punt a lot and had questionable hands that I kept. I guess the pressure and hunger (we didn't have breaks) got the best of me.
It was cool meeting Source people. Tangle Wire is awesome.
great report, would you have changed any in your 75 on hindsight?
btw, where did you get your "keep calm and brainstorm" shirt.
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