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Thread: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

  1. #161

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Another report from me running MUD Stompy. This time I got first:

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ames-Elmira-NY

    Don't have time at the moment but I have a long post in mind just generally about MUD and the variants.

  2. #162
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Brainstorming this morning yielded this untested hybrid, which kind of looks at the deck from a new direction. Maybe good, most likely not. The important thing was it got me thinking about new stuff.

    1 chalice of the void
    2 mox opal
    1 mox diamond
    1 phyrexian furnace
    1 pithing needle
    1 sensei's divining top
    3 trinisphere
    3 grim monolith
    (10)

    3 trinket mage
    4 goblin welder
    (7)

    3 kuldotha forgemaster
    1 blightsteel colossus
    1 sundering titan
    1 steel hellkite
    4 lodestone golem
    3 metalworker
    (13)

    4 faithless looting
    1 reforge the soul
    (5)

    1 seat of the synod
    1 great furnace
    1 academy ruins
    3 volcanic island
    1 island
    3 mountain
    4 ancient tomb
    3 city of traitors
    4 scalding tarn
    1 wooded foothills
    (22)

    The list is super tight, but I wanted to fit in Voltaic Key, Lightning Greaves, and a Spine of Ish Shah but I just couldn't find the room. The general idea is that we use Chalice as sort of utility, because it's really most powerful on the play, and this way we can at least check removal or lock down their own tempo if need be. Giving us access to a few silver bullets in the main to help over all across general match ups. Trinket Mage finds it for you, as well as fixing mana problems despite being splashed for. Standard 3 target forge master package I like to go with. I think it gives me the best of everything I need. Mana base was weird because I immediately saw I would need more colored sources on the regular, but did not want to cut into the acceleration it provided me too hard, and this was the compromise I came up with.

    So what I was trying to do was a few different things.
    a) Have access to a draw engine, but not lose Chalice entirely.
    b) Make better use of the lower end of the mana curve than the deck was using before.
    c) Streamline the creature package.

    After making the list I immediately wished that Trinket Mage gets reprinted onto a red body.

    EDIT: Potential Sideboard

    3 Chalice of the Void
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Powder Keg
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Spine of Ish Shah
    1 Phyrexian Metamorph
    3 Blood Moon
    1 Platinum Emperion
    1 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Duplicant

    Double Edit: To make room in the main for the cards I wanted you could go -3 Trinisphere, + 1 Voltaic Key, +2 Lightning Greaves
    And in the Board -1 Wurmcoil, -1 Duplicant, +2 Trinisphere, or cut another random singleton for the 3rd.
    -Steve
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  3. #163
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    I've been playing with the combo (kuldotha -> Mega Robots) and the mid-range aggro (metalworker + grim + dynamo + bombs like wurmcoil karn and hellikte):
    I didn't like the first because it was too much dependent on kuldotha and with too many dead draws
    The second worked fine but the deck could easily kill itself by drawing only mana (I once lost to 12 goblin guide attacks after landing a chalice at 1 who stopped his entire deck, I simply drew only mana)

    Up till now the only card I really want to play is Chalice, so starting from the second build, I've changed the deck to be more aggressive in order to put a clock after some disruption. Here's the list:

    MAIN
    4 city of traitors
    4 ancient tomb
    4 wasteland
    4 cavern of souls
    6 mountain

    3 lotus petal
    4 grim monolith

    4 chalice of the void
    3 trinisphere
    4 lodestone golem

    3 phyrexian metamorph
    3 su-chi
    2 batterskull
    2 razormane masticore
    2 steel hellkite
    2 wurmcoil engine

    3 goblin welder
    3 reforge the soul

    SIDE
    3 cursed totem
    2 duplicant
    2 tormod's crypt
    2 grafdigger's cage
    3 ratchet bomb
    3 phyrexian revoker

    Taken at a torney it took first place but I'm sure there's still ample space for tuning.
    As someone already wrote, Su-chi is good because it's a 4 mana threat outside lightbolt reach, which can do tricks with welder.
    Razormane Masticore is against swarm deck and helps in decimating maverick; it's also synergic with welder and cursed totem.
    Reforge the soul is the card I'm most unsure about, but I still haven't tested it quite well.

    What are your thoughts?

  4. #164

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Hi!!
    I've been playing with the combo version without welder used by Eric Fry but I tested it with one Mycosynth Golem... and it´s amazing! put 3 robots on field without pay any cost... I know that he is very expensive, but...
    What do you think?

  5. #165

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    MAIN
    4 city of traitors
    4 ancient tomb
    4 wasteland
    4 cavern of souls
    6 mountain

    3 lotus petal
    4 grim monolith

    4 chalice of the void
    3 trinisphere
    4 lodestone golem

    3 phyrexian metamorph
    3 su-chi
    2 batterskull
    2 razormane masticore
    2 steel hellkite
    2 wurmcoil engine

    3 goblin welder
    3 reforge the soul

    SIDE
    3 cursed totem
    2 duplicant
    2 tormod's crypt
    2 grafdigger's cage
    3 ratchet bomb
    3 phyrexian revoker
    Gratz for the finish! Im still not sure on the masticore.. But one thing is sure. I would kill myself if I was playing MUD without my personnal favorite Metalworker.... :)

  6. #166
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    I have updated the primer. It covers a lot more than the previous one. Just let me know what else is missing.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  7. #167
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    New toy from M13:

    Trading Post???

    It essentially reads:

    Handelposten

    Artifact

    , tap, discard a card: Gain 4 life

    , tap, pay 1 life: Put a 0/1 Goat creature token onto the field

    , tap, sacrifice a creature: Return target artifact card from your graveyard to your hand

    , tap, sacrifice an artifact: Draw a card.
    The discard clause helps Welder
    The life gain clause helps Ancient Tomb
    It can create blockers
    You can sacrifice those tokens/late game Metalworkers/tapped Wurmcoils/Sundering Titans to recur other artifacts.
    You can sacrifice used Monoliths/dying Tangle Wires/artifact lands to draw cards.

    I love it
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  8. #168

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    I have updated the primer. It covers a lot more than the previous one. Just let me know what else is missing.
    Not something missing, but you can throw up my tournament reports. I have some discussion about proper MUD play in both.

  9. #169
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Hello all, im playing with this deck a couple of months ago and i'm making some changes, but i have some doubts, if you could help me, ( i play with welder build)

    1) Welder is very difficult to keep, it's get countered or get some removal right in the moment it hits the field, so i was thinking to use some cavern of souls to help welder and other robots (golem/ construct), cavern with welder help me using chalice of the void in the main deck , but it screw with faithless looting, so my doubt: welder is worth in this case? without looting its speed is down a lot, also i use forgemaster in the same deck (3), i read some plp don't use welder and forgemaster in the same deck.

    2) In the looting's space i was thinking about this new card in m13, trading post..the first and last two abilities are awesome for mud, and 4 mana is cheap enough , what do you guys think?

  10. #170
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zirath View Post
    Not something missing, but you can throw up my tournament reports. I have some discussion about proper MUD play in both.
    Added and thank you for your contribution.

    Quote Originally Posted by vintersorg View Post
    Hello all, im playing with this deck a couple of months ago and i'm making some changes, but i have some doubts, if you could help me, ( i play with welder build)

    1) Welder is very difficult to keep, it's get countered or get some removal right in the moment it hits the field, so i was thinking to use some cavern of souls to help welder and other robots (golem/ construct), cavern with welder help me using chalice of the void in the main deck , but it screw with faithless looting, so my doubt: welder is worth in this case? without looting its speed is down a lot, also i use forgemaster in the same deck (3), i read some plp don't use welder and forgemaster in the same deck.
    Yes, Welder is very difficult to keep. That's why you shouldn't rely on Welder all by itself. Metalworker also exists in the deck and sometimes Forgemaster. If they remove Welder, it's less removal/counter for your other robots. If they remove your Metalworker, hope and pray that they do not have a fast clock and start laying down acceleration for your Robots.

    I personally do not use Chalice on the main. Instead, I try to go for the combo-strategy game one (as evident on the Looting and SDT on the main). Postboard, I try to catch my opponent's pants down with Chalice along with Trinisphere (siding out Looting and SDT) and try to go for the Midrange-lockdown game.


    Of course, it's a metagame call. But if you have Chalice on the main, I don't think Looting will be helpful to you.

    2) In the looting's space i was thinking about this new card in m13, trading post..the first and last two abilities are awesome for mud, and 4 mana is cheap enough , what do you guys think?
    I think its good in the Stompy builds (maindeck Chalice and 3Sphere) that still tries to use Welder as protection (with the help of Cavern of Souls). Go for the lock with early Chalice + 3sphere + Lodestone then try to puke your hand out with Metalworker or use Trading Post to feed Welder, replenish life lost from Ancient Tomb, create Goat tokens to chump block creatures that get through the early lock or recycle used Grim Monoliths/hellbent Metalworkers/multiple Mox Opals for card draws.

    Personally, I'm considering Rummaging Goblin and more of a red splash. This means Chalice/Blood Moon /3sphere disruption with Rummaging Goblin + Welder being supported by Cavern of Souls and using Goblin Matron to tutor for either pieces or using postboard goblin pieces such as Goblin Sharpshooters and Tuktuk Scrappers (against Null Rods)

    This is essentially the Space Goblin variant of the deck.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  11. #171
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Thanks for the response!, yes..looting and chalice aren't good..i'm using 4 chalice and 3 3sphere in sb, keep them there right?, i was thinking to use 3..4 phyrexian revoker too (sb), well, here's my list if you want to give a feedback i would be appreciated

    Creatures:
    4 goblin welder
    4 metalworker
    4 lodestone golem
    3 wurmcoil engine
    3 kuldotha forgemaster
    1 steel hellkite
    1 blightsteel colossus
    1 myr battlesphere
    1 sundering titan

    Artifacts:
    4 grim monolith
    4 voltaic key
    3 tangle wire
    3 mox opal
    1 Spine of Ish Sah

    Sorcery:
    3 faithless looting
    1 reforge the soul

    Lands:
    4 city of traitors
    4 ancient tomb
    4 great furnace
    3 darksteel citadel
    4 mountain

    I'm thinking to use cavern of souls (3), and crucible of worlds (2) , -1 battlesphere +1sundering titan.
    Rummaging Goblin is awesome!! never thought about using him, its worth the slots?

  12. #172
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Just saw that Trading Post card.... wow. That's like, half of the effects I had on my wish list for MUD decks. That's just so gravy, it adds a bunch of consistency and options for the deck, and actually let's it do something to cheat cards into the graveyard. And to boot it looks great for anyone still running Voltaic Key. It's hard to say though what slots it gets the bump in over, as 4 cc for a non-creature is not exactly the BEST for us, and certainly FLooting is really strong too (as is SDT).

    Once again I want a red trinket mage XD
    -Steve
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    So, we should call it Peter, Paul, and Mary? Or we're supposed to go outside and start sucking dick?

  13. #173
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by vintersorg View Post
    Thanks for the response!, yes..looting and chalice aren't good..i'm using 4 chalice and 3 3sphere in sb, keep them there right?, i was thinking to use 3..4 phyrexian revoker too (sb), well, here's my list if you want to give a feedback i would be appreciated

    ----list-----

    I'm thinking to use cavern of souls (3), and crucible of worlds (2) , -1 battlesphere +1sundering titan.
    Rummaging Goblin is awesome!! never thought about using him, its worth the slots?
    Personally, I would use Cavern of Souls. It's great since one of the things I hate is having all your unrenewable resources only to be countered.

    As for Titan, it's my favorite Forgemaster target as it can lock early games, though I understand that Blightsteel wins games. I seriously think its meta-call. Sundering Titan is great against a control meta where as Blightsteel is great in a combo meta when winning in earlier turns makes more sense without worrying if your opponent can answer it.

    Quote Originally Posted by noobslayer View Post
    Just saw that Trading Post card.... wow. That's like, half of the effects I had on my wish list for MUD decks. That's just so gravy, it adds a bunch of consistency and options for the deck, and actually let's it do something to cheat cards into the graveyard. And to boot it looks great for anyone still running Voltaic Key. It's hard to say though what slots it gets the bump in over, as 4 cc for a non-creature is not exactly the BEST for us, and certainly FLooting is really strong too (as is SDT).

    Once again I want a red trinket mage XD
    I think Trading Post will/can shine in a build similar to Zirath's.

    As for wants, a red artifact creature tutor in general would be sweet. We'll see what the Izzet guild has in store for us.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  14. #174

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    I think Trading Post will/can shine in a build similar to Zirath's.
    Trading Post suffers from the Staff of Dominion issue; very cute card, great ways of making combinations, overall not good enough for a non-combo build. It can definitely be used, but I wouldn't.

  15. #175
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zirath View Post
    Trading Post suffers from the Staff of Dominion issue; very cute card, great ways of making combinations, overall not good enough for a non-combo build. It can definitely be used, but I wouldn't.
    I agree that for mono-brown it's REALLY sub par, and really only displays its full potential with an active welder. The big difference between this and SoD, is you would probably run this as a 3 or 4-of, and not a 1-of. It should have been a legendary land or something. Making it an artifact makes little to no sense.
    -Steve
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I'm gonna bang noobslayer's sister. Then I'm gonna do it again.
    How come it needs to be a holiday to bang noobslayer's sister?
    Quote Originally Posted by URABAHN View Post
    So, we should call it Peter, Paul, and Mary? Or we're supposed to go outside and start sucking dick?

  16. #176
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Sundering titan is awesome , because people actually don't want to take them off the battlefield, anyway, i'm trying to use 2 trading post to see the results, the sinergy between trading post and welder are pretty awesome (and the deck as a whole too), maybe i will take one reforge the soul out and don't know... i really like tangle wire but i'm seriously thinking taking them off :\ but i don't know for quite sure... another think i read here somewhere but dunno if that was discussed, smokestack + goblin welder is very nice, you will have a huge advantage from your opponent, but i think i'm going more to stax than mud, and i prefer mud hehe, i was just wandering..there are some incredible lock cards like nether void that aren't seeing builds in this deck, i just saw one guy here with that black 'kinda stax' build.

  17. #177
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    This seems like an alright starting point:

    4 ancient tomb
    4 city of traitors
    2 darksteel citadel
    3 buried ruins
    4 cavern of souls
    3 great furnace
    (20)

    4 grim monolith
    1 mox opal
    2 lotus petal
    (7)

    4 goblin welder
    (4)

    4 metalworker
    4 kuldotha forgemaster
    4 lodestone golem
    3 wurmcoil engine
    1 steel hellkite
    1 sundering titan
    1 blightsteel colossus
    (18)

    3 trading post
    4 chalice of the void
    3 trinisphere
    1 spine of ish shah
    (11)

    This is the chalice build. The only red spells are welder, so the mana base is the way it is to account for that. The list does not sport Voltaic Key, so truly broken shenanigans with Trading Post aren't available.
    -Steve
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I'm gonna bang noobslayer's sister. Then I'm gonna do it again.
    How come it needs to be a holiday to bang noobslayer's sister?
    Quote Originally Posted by URABAHN View Post
    So, we should call it Peter, Paul, and Mary? Or we're supposed to go outside and start sucking dick?

  18. #178
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    I had and extremely bat match yesterday against a RUG Delver, i played 6 times and just won twice, i did not use my sb because he was without one so it's kinda rude imo, but anyway..it was hard to survive, how do you guys manage to defeat them?

  19. #179
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Slow roll them and build up your lands/mana sources. Bait your Metalworkers and once you get Cavern of Souls, save it for Wurmcoil Engine.

    Always try to resolve a Wurmcoil Engine. The life gain will help and the death touch can deal with their green creatures. The body isn't so bad as it is out of Bolt range and if they do manage to get rid of it, it replaces itself.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  20. #180

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    So, what do you guys think of Staff of Nin? I've also strongly considered the blue splash for thoughtcast since what this deck needs the most is draw.

    I've been brainstorming quite a bit recently (3 days off sick, still 2 days to go) and I came up with this build:

    4 Wasteland
    4 Cavern of souls
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of traitors
    4 Darksteel Citadel
    2 Rishadan Port

    1 Crucible of the worlds
    2 Sphere of resistance (these could be thorns of amethyst, still undecided)
    4 Chalice of the void
    2 Sensei's Divining top ( could be thoughtcast, staff of Nin or trading post)
    2 Lightning greaves (considering a 1/1 split with Thousand-Year Elixir)
    1 Karn Liberated (could be sideboarded for a maindeck Spine of Ish Sah or an additional copy of sphere of resistance/thorn of amethyst)
    2 Voltaic Key

    4 Grim Monolith
    3 Metalworker
    2 Lotus Petal
    1 Mox Diamond

    4 Lodestone Golem
    4 Wurmcoil Engine
    4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
    1 Blightsteel Colossus
    1 Sundering Titan

    SB:
    1 Sphere of resistance
    2 Thorn of amethyst
    1 All is dust (changing this to scourglass, i think)
    2 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Staff of domination
    1 Witchbane Orb
    1 Spine of Ish Sah
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Phyrexian Metamorph
    1 Powder Keg
    1 Steel Hellkite

    Most current Tier 1 decks run on very low mana in general, hence I wanted to focus on sphere effects (I dont think trinisphere is that powerful long-term) and mana denial. SDT, staff of nin and trading post all allow more consistency (thoughtcast also does this but would require seat of synods instead of darksteel citadels). Chalice on 1 does not work very well with STD hence I'm strongly considering staffs. One card I also considered actually is Thalia, combined with lodestones it could be very powerful especially against decks like esper control and storm combo. I'm probably swapping the metamorph in the sideboard for a second crucible or a third revoker (wasteland is still scary as well as STD and deed).

    I considered running thran dynamos but I feel that we're already kinda low on threats...

    I've done like 20 goldfishes and it seems very strong, although perhaps not as explosive as my previous builds. I do like the possibility to lock out your opponent early.

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