I playtested with a buddy against Miracles and heres my take on it (click view post):Originally Posted by fogxanic
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
The random spine has won me a LOT of games vs sneak and show in game 1. I've also tutored for it against painted stone for the ensnaring bridge that shuts off my attack. The best against that deck is when they have a painters servant out but can't combo you out and you cast all is dust with a wurmcoil out.
No no, the best thing agaisnt painter is you have forgemaster online and they play grind + painter and mill you. Response go find phyrexian metamorph and grind them. There should be left 1 blighsteel colossus in your deck draw it on your turn and pass the turn.
why uba mask? could you (or anyone) elaborate as to why this might be a solid choice / better than something else?
There is a reason that before EspressoStax, UbaStax was the for most Stax deck in Vintage before the fall of G.Welder.
UbaMask completely wrecks decks that need to set up their hand. Makes all instants into use me this turn now of loose me forever sorcery. Ducks up brainstorm unless you are on top deck mode in which case it becomes an instant ancestral recall. And is a bitching soft lock with two welders.
It makes Grindy matchups heavily favourable for a permanent based deck with overwhelming threats and mana.
Sorry, but miracles is a good match up with that kind of list (especially lists with Cavern). Perhaps you could elaborate, or maybe kept bad opening hands.
My advice:
-1 Sundering Titan
-1 Staff of Domination
-1 Wasteland
-2 Vesuva
+1 Steel Hellkite
+1 Staff of Nin
+3 Cavern of Souls
The biggest thing is that Cavern will let you force through certain threats, and Staff of Nin can help you outpace your opponent better than Staff of Domination (sans the Metalworker Combo) as well as peck at Jace. Another thing I've seen people do in the past is side Eye of Ugin and an Eldrazi (most cases are Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Kozilek, Butcher of Truth).
"Let go your earthly tether. Enter the void, empty, and become wind."
Thoughts on the new artifact from ktk? Ugin's nexus. Might be nice.
Primary deck: Mud
Secondary deck: Burn
Building: Nic Fit
Just a question... why staff of nin instead of Bottled cloister?
I haven't played much MUD, but I had Cloister destroyed while my hand was exiled once. You generally lose when that happens, and so Cloister has its problems.
Uba Mask worked in Vintage Stax/MUD because those decks ran Bazaar, and the Mask/Bazaar interaction coupled with Mask's effectiveness against decks trying to draw and sandbag answers was great there. Without something like Bazaar, there's no point in running Uba Mask.
Cloister has a habit of getting your hand exiled. Staff of nin has a habit of killing pesky creatures and pressuring planeswalkers. Combined with 2x welders or voltaic key, it can completely control the board.
Cloister can be justified if you are running ensnaring bridge. But since this effect is symmetrical, it mostly is played in stax and not MUD
Getting cloister destroyed is an awful feeling, and staff of nin also has some added utility of being able to shoot down x/1s, even if it is more expensive. Generally in the match ups where you want card draw you can reach 6 mana easily enough.
I really like Witchbane Orb. It's not as effective, but it does protect you from Discards and useful vs some combos too.
speaking of sideboard cards, what is everyone's opinion of trading post in the side for the grindy match ups? I notice greg spanno played id against lossett at the scg invitational.
I tried uba mask when I first started mud. Wasn't very good. I tried it in a UR welder deck that had magus of the bazaar, and dropped the pseudo bazaar when faithless looting came out, and it still only worked part of the time. I thought about making a godo welder deck with it but it didn't appeal to me. I do however run uba mask in my casual discard deck. :)
Primary deck: Mud
Secondary deck: Burn
Building: Nic Fit
Uba Mask for Legacy is not a draw engine because as previously stated, Bazaar is banned in the format. Uba Mask is better suited in a Stax shell where prison/taxing effects compliment the effect of cards being nigh useless if they are unable to cast it then and there. Have any deck other than Miracles in the mid game cast brainstorm thru SoR and Golems. Chances are they won't have the mana to cast a 2nd spell that turn. That gives the Stax deck the time it needs to close the deal.
It is not a MD card for MUD. Barely a SB simply because MUD is an aggro deck. And as for why Uba Mask isn't seen in Stax list...We don't have Workshop. The cost of the card is simply to much with SoR in Legacy and competes with Golemn for the 4cc slot.
That's why I like Cloister better than Staff of Nin. Against Discard decks Cloister is great and can't be affected by Abrupt Decay. Game 1 Cloister is safe most of the time anyway.
After boarding you have to be careful. Don't play Cloister too early. With an empty hand a destroyed Cloister isn't a problem at all of course.
The difference between 4 and 6 mana is quite big in my opinion. (Think of Staff of Nin competing with Wurmcoil, Steel Hellkite, etc.)
It all depends on play-style of course. I do play Bridge so Cloister is essential for me.
You sir.... I like you
Bottles cloister is a double edged sword. It's the only card that card single handledly win you the game and at the same time blow you out and 6 for 1 yourself. It's happened two me twice, two times to many IMHO. I started to test with a coercive portal, since it does draw effect. It's a trade off of being blow out vs. hand protection.
Correct, except for bridge.
Coercive works bad with bridge whereas Bottled Cloister works superb with it. Shutting down attacks of opponents while you can still attack = very
Without bridge I guess the two cards are very close.
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