[Deck] Team America (Midrange/Control Thread)

[bamannov]

I'm going to be trying this list in my next local tourney:

12 Creatures:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tomb Stalker
2 True Name Nemesis

29 Spells:
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
3 Spell Pierce
3 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library

19 Lands:
4 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou


SB:
1 Bitterblossom
1 Thoughtseize
1 Krosan Grip
1 Fatal Push
1 Life from the Loam
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Diabolical Edict
2 Flusterstorm
1 Abrupt Decay

[porkypads]

is there any merit in trying ~2 tireless trackers in a BUG midrange/control list? or do you guys think he's too slow?

something like:

2x Bayou
1x Forest
1x Island
3x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
2x Tropical Island
3x Underground Sea
3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Wasteland

4x Baleful Strix
2x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
3x Tarmogoyf
2x Tireless Tracker

1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Liliana of the Veil

2x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
3x Fatal Push
4x Force of Will

2x Hymn to Tourach
4x Ponder
3x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek

[FZA]

is there any merit in trying ~2 tireless trackers in a BUG midrange/control list? or do you guys think he's too slow?

something like:

2x Bayou
1x Forest
1x Island
3x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
2x Tropical Island
3x Underground Sea
3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Wasteland

4x Baleful Strix
2x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
3x Tarmogoyf
2x Tireless Tracker

1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Liliana of the Veil

2x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
3x Fatal Push
4x Force of Will

2x Hymn to Tourach
4x Ponder
3x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek

Tracker is definitely very good. But I don't think it's powerful enough to supplant Snapcaster Mage.

I think Tracker would make more sense in a GSZ BUG deck.

[bamannov]

is there any merit in trying ~2 tireless trackers in a BUG midrange/control list? or do you guys think he's too slow?

something like:

2x Bayou
1x Forest
1x Island
3x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
2x Tropical Island
3x Underground Sea
3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Wasteland

4x Baleful Strix
2x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
3x Tarmogoyf
2x Tireless Tracker

1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Liliana of the Veil

2x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
3x Fatal Push
4x Force of Will

2x Hymn to Tourach
4x Ponder
3x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek

He's waaaay too slow for a three drop in this deck/archetype..There are not enough land drops (once he's in play you've already lost 3-5 lands from your deck) to make him big enough and the clue activation is too mana intensive for the deck.

That's just my $0.02

[Storming_Dude]

Hi all,

just wanted to give a small report on my recent participation at CardMarket Series in Prague - Played the following Midrange list:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Fatal Push
2 Tombstalker
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Thoughtseize

2 Diabolic Edict
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
2 Golgari Charm
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge

The Sideboard was built against Tribal / D&T / Combo, which I was expecting a lot - Any suggestions are welcome!

Trial (3-1)

R1 Elves 2:1 --> Delver + Tombstalker were two times faster than Craterhoof
R2 Elves 0:2 --> Unlucky hands, maybe should have mulliganed aggressivly
R3 Cloudpost.dec 2:1 --> Game 3 he simply bricked in finding action and accerlation after the first wasteland
R4 Lands 2:1 --> Both players with lucky topdeck, mine were just a little bit better

Mainevent 5-3 drop due to time
R1 BYE
R2 Canadian 2:1 --> Tombstalker is a beast, otherwise BUG still seems to be better at grinding
R3 ANT 0:2 --> Frist round removal hand, second game he had all the necessary disruption/answers
R4 Miracles 2:1 --> Few well timed wastelands/Decay/discards shut two games down from any relevant action
R5 Worldgorger Dragon UB Grind 2:0 --> Two very grindy games, last one won by resolving two Tombstalker in one turn
R6 Miracles 0:2 --> Bit unlucky, bit outplayed but overall a great round of Magic with a lot of interaction
R7 Elves 2:1 --> Double Golgari Charm doing their work
R8 Sneak'n'Show 1:2 --> Out of prices, so drop and drive back home to Berlin

Going forward, I do like the list but am not sure whether its optimal, feels like there is room for improvement (e.g., main deck Thoughtseize) - Looking forward to any feedback!

[Wakkz]

Hi all,

just wanted to give a small report on my recent participation at CardMarket Series in Prague - Played the following Midrange list:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Fatal Push
2 Tombstalker
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Thoughtseize

2 Diabolic Edict
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
2 Golgari Charm
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge

The Sideboard was built against Tribal / D&T / Combo, which I was expecting a lot - Any suggestions are welcome!

Trial (3-1)

R1 Elves 2:1 --> Delver + Tombstalker were two times faster than Craterhoof
R2 Elves 0:2 --> Unlucky hands, maybe should have mulliganed aggressivly
R3 Cloudpost.dec 2:1 --> Game 3 he simply bricked in finding action and accerlation after the first wasteland
R4 Lands 2:1 --> Both players with lucky topdeck, mine were just a little bit better

Mainevent 5-3 drop due to time
R1 BYE
R2 Canadian 2:1 --> Tombstalker is a beast, otherwise BUG still seems to be better at grinding
R3 ANT 0:2 --> Frist round removal hand, second game he had all the necessary disruption/answers
R4 Miracles 2:1 --> Few well timed wastelands/Decay/discards shut two games down from any relevant action
R5 Worldgorger Dragon UB Grind 2:0 --> Two very grindy games, last one won by resolving two Tombstalker in one turn
R6 Miracles 0:2 --> Bit unlucky, bit outplayed but overall a great round of Magic with a lot of interaction
R7 Elves 2:1 --> Double Golgari Charm doing their work
R8 Sneak'n'Show 1:2 --> Out of prices, so drop and drive back home to Berlin

Going forward, I do like the list but am not sure whether its optimal, feels like there is room for improvement (e.g., main deck Thoughtseize) - Looking forward to any feedback!

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19666&f=LE
This list did pretty well in an event in China, im gonna test this one out!

[Storming_Dude]

Thanks for the reference, seems quite comparable to mine

Changes I do like:
- 1 Hymn for 1 Liliane, got several time issues with too many Hymns

Changes I personally don't like:
- Gurmags instead of Tombstalker --> Tombstalker is a beast and we can easily support BB and the flying is so important due to many creature-based decks
- Only 6 real lands --> Personal taste, I like to have the advantage of 7 reals lands vs wasteland instead of the additional shuffle - Especially with so many 3 drops in the total list

What are your thoughts?

[Wakkz]

I agree with you about tombstalker. Gurmag is a bit cheaper though but in the end that maybe doest matter. The biggest deal with this list is 2 TNN which will be interesting to see how viable he will be. Very double Blue and double black in the deck. He can be used to cast fow in worst case scenario I guess.

3 hymn seems fair. It gets as you said a bit dead as the game goes on.

One card that seldom come up is sinkhole. I screwed up B/R reanimator opponent some weeks ago with this card, preventing him to do anything. But perhaps its too excessive and situational.

[Storming_Dude]

I agree with you about tombstalker. Gurmag is a bit cheaper though but in the end that maybe doest matter. The biggest deal with this list is 2 TNN which will be interesting to see how viable he will be. Very double Blue and double black in the deck. He can be used to cast fow in worst case scenario I guess.

3 hymn seems fair. It gets as you said a bit dead as the game goes on.

One card that seldom come up is sinkhole. I screwed up B/R reanimator opponent some weeks ago with this card, preventing him to do anything. But perhaps its too excessive and situational.

TNN will be a discussion point, I'm as well not too sure that it's correct even though it's working fine - I guess it might also be there due to the lack of alternatives (Leovold is strictly worse in so many cases, we can't afford more planswalker, Baleful Strix does not apply enough pressure), any thoughts on other potential replacements?

[Wakkz]

Only one I can come up with is Liliana the last hope.
Great against opposing baleful strixes, DnT, delvers. Great at refuil graveyard for our own delve dudes and resurrect from the gy.

[toffee]

About the list, It is similar to mine. (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19666&f=LE)
I prefer Stalker over Gurmag because of the Flying ability is too strong right now. I think that his choice was to play 5 double BB spell (3 tourach and 2 llveil)..I think that he hadn't the 4th Sea (in fact he played with 10 fetches, instead of 9 + 4th sea)..
I current play 9 fetches, 3 sea, 2 bayou, 2 tropical and 4 wasteland, with 2 stalker-1 veil-3 tourach...and I have no problem about double BB, but I'm sure that 4th sea could be the right configuration (I havn't the 4th sea).
In addition, I prefer to play MD sylvan library instead of 2nd Veil.
so, my list:

4 verdant catacombs
4 polluted delta
1 misty rainforest
4 wasteland
3 underground sea
2 bayou
2 tropical island

4 delver of secrets
4 tarmogoyf
2 tombstalker
2 true-name nemesis

1 liliana of the veil

4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 daze
4 force of will
3 hymn to tourach
2 thoughtseize
3 abrupt decay
2 fatal push
1 sylvan library

SIDEBOARD
3 surgical extraction
2 golgari charm
2 flusterstorm
2 spell pierce
2 liliana, the last hope
2 diabolic edict
1 grafdigger’s cage
1 pithing needle

A question....I think that this archetype shouldn't be in this thread, but here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...elver)/page149

About the archetype in this thread, I've seen two similar decks...top8 and top16:

http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/cov...e-2018-legacy/

and

http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/122331

What do u think about these decklists?

[tobyha]

3 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Baleful Strix
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
2 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Diabolic Edict
3 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
4 Wasteland

1 Thoughtseize
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Life from the Loam
1 Collective Brutality
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Marsh Casualties
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Engineered Explosives
1 To the Slaughter
1 Dread of Night

thats the mkm list toffee talked about

[JanoschEausH]

Both midrange lists are quite similiar only a few differences. I just don't like Noble. Feels bad that he can't make B. But maybe this is the way to go if you go Midrange. I considered Birds of Paradise and Elves of Deep Shadow in the acceleration slot, but I feel they are strictly worse despite producing the right color. Also, if you play Noble Hierarch, you can also go straight into Shardless Agent builds I assume. Shardless might be the most powerful option available for midrange.

Those Delver lists look quite spicy, too. I really hope that Blood Moon decks go extinct, because they totally wreck BUG in general. Especially BUG Delver.

[Wakkz]

If blood moon become to dominant, I guess the only option would be to put in a basic forest and swamp, we got alot of decays dont we?

[Storming_Dude]

Have tested those Midrange lists and have to say I'm not too impressed, they clearly have their moments but the combo (especially storm) MU feels really bad and I'm personally missing the closing options as the threats are all rather slow which is on the other hand not supported by a strong control shell or card advantage spells (besides Jace).

Maybe I will drill down the removal a bit and up the hierarchs, include some counters and 1-2 real threats (e.g., Tombstalker) but let's start from there - Will let you know when I found something, that works for me

[toffee]

hi mate, yesterday I made 3-1 in my local tournament.

Storm 2-1
Blade Control 2-0
Red Stompy 1-2
Food Chain 2-0

with this list:

4 verdant catacombs
4 polluted delta
1 misty rainforest
3 wasteland
3 underground sea
2 tropical island
2 bayou
1 swamp
1 island
1 forest

4 baleful strix
4 tarmogoyf
2 leovold, emissary of trest
1 tombstalker

2 liliana of the veil
1 liliana, the last hope
1 jace, the mind sculptor

4 force of will
4 brainstorm
3 ponder
3 hymn to tourach
3 abrupt decay
3 fatal push
1 maelstrom pulse
1 toxic deluge
1 sylvan library

SIDEBOARD
3 surgical extraction
2 flusterstorm
2 thoughtseize
2 golgari charm
1 blue elemental blast
1 life from the loam
1 to the slaughter
1 grafdigger's cage
1 pithing needle
1 liliana, the last hope

I have a few question/considerations:
- Baleful strix is very strong right now, but I think to cut one-of to put a snapcaster mage...what do u think?
- I think I play too many removals....do u think to cut a fatal push for example? Pulse, Deluge, Decay are too strong right now (planeswalkers, artifacts...)..
- Tombstalker is the 5th finisher (the choice to play Stalker is the lack of damages by DRS), I've seen it only one time and I won with it....It is very strong but I don't know if can be replaced with another card (for example a snapcaster mage...or the 3th leovold)..
- 22 lands are the right number in this configuration...I can reduce one to put the 4th ponder, but in my opinion a land is better (the 9th fetch)..
- 3 tourach: a perfect number...just see one per game.
- 2 liliana of the veil: A MUST-HAVE. Essential.
- About the sideboard, I think that this configuration is perfect for an unknown metagame, because I can cover up all matchups.

Finally, -1 Strix/Push and -1 Stalker for 1-2 Snapcaster Mage ?! I don't know...in all my test only in a game I wanted to have a Snapcaster mage, but there were some matchups where baleful strix was a cycle-card.

[Storming_Dude]

Congratz to the result!

WRT to the questions you mentioned, I think we should focus on either control or a more aggressive line.

- Str Baleful strix is very strong right now, but I think to cut one-of to put a snapcaster mage...what do u think?
Yes, it seems to be quiet strong right now as the meta is slowing down - Snapcaster serves a different purpose, but I do like the cut

- I think I play too many removals....do u think to cut a fatal push for example? Pulse, Deluge, Decay are too strong right now (planeswalkers, artifacts...)..
Playing 8 removal + 4 Strix + 3 Liliana seems really a lot, 2 Pushs and 3 Strix should be fine - Especially when you add Snapcaster Mages

- Tombstalker is the 5th finisher (the choice to play Stalker is the lack of damages by DRS), I've seen it only one time and I won with it....It is very strong but I don't know if can be replaced with another card (for example a snapcaster mage...or the 3th leovold)..
Overall, the deck looks low on real win conditions with only 1 Jace and 1 Tombstalker - That's a point where you really miss DRS, so I would up both (-1 Pulse (to SB), + Stalker, -1 Liliana (your choice which) + 1 Jace), have to find out how it works

- 22 lands are the right number in this configuration...I can reduce one to put the 4th ponder, but in my opinion a land is better (the 9th fetch)..
I think that personal preference, with the deck we don't need more than 4-5 lands in play as we're still following a tap-out strategy as we don't have counters arround for which we need our mana

- 3 tourach: a perfect number...just see one per game.
- 2 liliana of the veil: A MUST-HAVE. Essential.
Agree on those two points!

The SB seems again to be heavy on removal, so combo (especially S'n'T) could get a problem as you have little interaction with them. I would suggest to make some room for the Pulse and maybe 1-2 addition counters/discards.

[RHWil]

Looking at a midrange build threat package is good. Looking to sure up SnS matchup G1. Here’s where I’m at now.

Deck: Legacy BUG Midrange 0.0.dec

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:16
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Baleful Strix
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
3 True-Name Nemesis

Spells:24
4 Brainstorm
2 Fatal Push
3 Ponder
1 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Daze
1 Sylvan Library
4 Force of Will

Lands:20
1 Bayou
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:15
2 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Bitterblossom
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Marsh Casualties
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Winter Orb

[toffee]

Hi mates, yesterday I made 3-1 in my local tournament.

Sneak&Show 2-1
Death&Taxes 2-0
Sneak&Show 1-2
Blade Control 2-0

With this list:

4 verdant catacombs
4 polluted delta
1 creeping tar pit
3 wasteland
3 underground sea
2 tropical island
2 bayou
1 island
1 swamp
1 forest

4 baleful strix
4 tarmogoyf
2 leovold, emissary of trest

2 liliana of the veil
1 liliana, the last hope
1 jace, the mind sculptor

4 force of will
4 brainstorm
3 ponder
4 hymn to tourach
3 abrupt decay
3 fatal push
1 to the slaughter
1 toxic deluge
1 sylvan library

SIDEBOARD
3 surgical extraction
2 thoughtseize
2 flusterstorm
2 golgari charm
1 leovold, emissary of trest
1 blue elemental blast
1 life from the loam
1 grafdigger's cage
1 pithing needle
1 liliana, the last hope

This list works very well, 22 lands are the best option without DRS.
I decided to play the 4th tourach in order to have some possibilities to beat combo decks, after playing a goyf.
In addition planeswalker's package is very very strong right now: I don't want the 2th Jace because of cc4 can be clunky.
Have u tested a similar deck?

[JanoschEausH]

Did you guys see the BUG Midrange Lists which were played at the Pro Tour? They looked really interesting but also very greedy (mana-wise).

4x Baleful Strix
2x Dark Confidant
1x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2x Tarmogoyf
2x True-Name Nemesis

1x Search for Azcanta
1x Sylvan Library

3x Abrupt Decay
1x Fatal Push
4x Brainstorm
3x Daze
4x Force of Will

2x Liliana of the Veil

1x Hymn to Tourach
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
4x Ponder

2x Bayou
1x Tropical Island
4x Underground Sea
4x Polluted Delta
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Misty Rainforest
3x Wasteland

SB:
3x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Sylvan Library
1x Diabolic Edict
3x Fatal Push
2x Flusterstorm
1x Jace, TMS
1x Hymn to Tourach
1x Life from the Loam
2x Marsh Casualties