[Deck] Team America (Midrange/Control Thread)

[H]

Did you guys see the BUG Midrange Lists which were played at the Pro Tour? They looked really interesting but also very greedy (mana-wise).

Looks like a strange Delver-less Delver deck than a Midrange one, although I guess it's reasonable to see it the other way around. First look it seemed like our old "Tempo" shell with "Midrange" threats. I'm not sure how well that would work...

[ReinhardtGao]

Did you guys see the BUG Midrange Lists which were played at the Pro Tour? They looked really interesting but also very greedy (mana-wise).

4x Baleful Strix
2x Dark Confidant
1x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2x Tarmogoyf
2x True-Name Nemesis

1x Search for Azcanta
1x Sylvan Library

3x Abrupt Decay
1x Fatal Push
4x Brainstorm
3x Daze
4x Force of Will

2x Liliana of the Veil

1x Hymn to Tourach
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
4x Ponder

2x Bayou
1x Tropical Island
4x Underground Sea
4x Polluted Delta
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Misty Rainforest
3x Wasteland

SB:
3x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Sylvan Library
1x Diabolic Edict
3x Fatal Push
2x Flusterstorm
1x Jace, TMS
1x Hymn to Tourach
1x Life from the Loam
2x Marsh Casualties

I'm interested in why these 2 players used Dark Confident rather than 2 Snapcaster Mage. Dark Confident can improve your card advantage if you keep it alive but not flexible than Snapcaster Mage.

[tobyha]

I'm interested in why these 2 players used Dark Confident rather than 2 Snapcaster Mage. Dark Confident can improve your card advantage if you keep it alive but not flexible than Snapcaster Mage.

Dark Confidant is a proactive threat, which demands a quick answer. snapcaster needs more mana and is used to react. i played bug midrange and delver after the ban and i get the feeling, that being proactive is the better route to victory, too many different types of threats... toffees delver list seems a good way to start (4 tnm). can u answer the delver? can u answer the goyf, what about true-name + disruption (hymn, daze...) ?

[toffee]

Dark Confidant is a proactive threat, which demands a quick answer. snapcaster needs more mana and is used to react. i played bug midrange and delver after the ban and i get the feeling, that being proactive is the better route to victory, too many different types of threats... toffees delver list seems a good way to start (4 tnm). can u answer the delver? can u answer the goyf, what about true-name + disruption (hymn, daze...) ?

Without red (and then without lightning bolt) we must win with creatures....I think that 10-11-12 creatures are too few in BUG Delver. Delver? Goyf? TNN? and last GA...all this creatures are a problem for opponent. In addition, with the reduce of BB casting cost (only 3 MD) this deck works very well....
About Confidant, I think that it can be played in aggro decks and not midrange, but this is my 2cent.
About Snapcaster, the best of configuration is with red spells, because in BUG shell there are only removal and discards.....this isn't the best option...Then, in a control decks could shine.

[jimytuning]

What do you think is this list?

4 Baleful Strix
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Fatal Push
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Diabolic Edict
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Tropical Island
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Forest
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Ponder
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Thoughtseize

// 15 Sideboard
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sylvan Library
1 Golgari Charm
2 Spell Pierce
4 Surgical Extraction
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Thoughtseize
1 Marsh Casualties
1 Life from the Loam

[JanoschEausH]

What do you think is this list?

4 Baleful Strix
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Fatal Push
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Diabolic Edict
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Tropical Island
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Forest
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Ponder
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Thoughtseize

// 15 Sideboard
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sylvan Library
1 Golgari Charm
2 Spell Pierce
4 Surgical Extraction
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Thoughtseize
1 Marsh Casualties
1 Life from the Loam

Well it's obviously a very slow list. The clock seems to be also very slow. You are very heavy on removal which opens this deck up to any Combo decks. The disruption is heavily discard based which is easy to play around because it's only one single angle of attack. I feel like you might be having problems of grinding games out against the field because your answers are not that diverse. I would add more creatures that provide some aggression (Goyf, TNN or Delve-Creatures). I feel a pure BUG Control Shell is vastly inferior to other Control Decks in the format because BUG is not that flexible like Grixis or Miracles. Both of those decks are better Snapcaster Decks, which seems to be a core component of todays Control Archetypes.

[jimytuning]

Well it's obviously a very slow list. The clock seems to be also very slow. You are very heavy on removal which opens this deck up to any Combo decks. The disruption is heavily discard based which is easy to play around because it's only one single angle of attack. I feel like you might be having problems of grinding games out against the field because your answers are not that diverse. I would add more creatures that provide some aggression (Goyf, TNN or Delve-Creatures). I feel a pure BUG Control Shell is vastly inferior to other Control Decks in the format because BUG is not that flexible like Grixis or Miracles. Both of those decks are better Snapcaster Decks, which seems to be a core component of todays Control Archetypes.

So, they advise me to play more or less. I'm new to BUG lists

[xix]

So, they advise me to play more or less. I'm new to BUG lists

land: 20/21/22 is a choice, I like 20/21 right now

-1 veil + 1 last hope
2-3 hymn main 3 in 75
2-3 decay, I prefer 2
3 push - I like 2 push/ 1 darkblast, or 3 push 1 darkblast

I am fine with the 2 snaps, I consider going to 3 myself sometimes.
add 2 creatures, tombstalker/gurmag/tnn so you can actually win games faster when needed, -1 hymn -1 decay gives you the 2 spots.

sideboard:
2 last hope in 75 is currently accepted as good!

cut the pulse, when its good we have other cards, I would rather play the third decay in sideboard over this card
thoughtseize -> 3rd hymn for me
2-3 surgicals 4 is overkill and not good enough
consider a flusterstorm or 2

if on 2 decay in 75, i would run 2 golgari charm, as it can be used on enchantments as well

bitterblossm is still a good choice even in bug, not just grixis etc.

if white is your biggest issue, consider narrow card like 1-2 dread of night, but its super narrow



Good luck play with a few things and find what works for you

[toffee]

Hi mates, I made 4-0 in my local tournament with this list:

4 verdant catacombs
4 polluted delta
1 misty rainforest
3 wasteland
3 underground sea
2 tropical island
2 bayou
1 island
1 swamp
1 forest

4 baleful strix
4 tarmogoyf
2 leovold, emissary of trest
2 true-name nemesis

2 liliana of the veil
1 liliana, the last hope
1 jace, the mind sculptor

4 force of will
4 brainstorm
3 ponder
3 hymn to tourach
3 abrupt decay
3 fatal push
1 to the slaughter
1 sylvan library

SIDEBOARD
3 surgical extraction
2 thoughtseize
2 flusterstorm
2 golgari charm
1 toxic deluge
1 blue elemental blast
1 life from the loam
1 grafdigger's cage
1 pithing needle
1 liliana, the last hope

DT 2-0
S&S 2-1
Grixis Delver 2-0
Grixis Control 2-1

about my last list (this one) :
- adding 2TNN: with STP decks and Push+Snapcaster decks I've found Tarmogoyf a "not real wincon", so I decided to add 2 tnn in order to win the game (without DRS I need more wincons). I'm very impressed with it.
- Deluge sideboard: I think that Deluge could be put into sideboard right now, because 3 push, 3 decay, 1 slaughter, 1 hope, 2 veil , 4 strix should be enough.
- Against combo decks, it is a difficult matchup maindeck, but in G2-G3 I can play very well against: 2 fluster, 2 seize, 3 surgical (+1 grafdigger, +1 needle, +1 beb for different matchups)

So, have u tried a similar deck? What do u think about that list?

PS: I don't need 3-4 Noble hierarch in this deck, because in my opinion I don't want to draw Hierarch in the middle-late game..and then, Hierarch doesn't produce black mana -.-...

[tobyha]

Hi mates, I made 4-0 in my local tournament with this list:

4 verdant catacombs
4 polluted delta
1 misty rainforest
3 wasteland
3 underground sea
2 tropical island
2 bayou
1 island
1 swamp
1 forest

4 baleful strix
4 tarmogoyf
2 leovold, emissary of trest
2 true-name nemesis

2 liliana of the veil
1 liliana, the last hope
1 jace, the mind sculptor

4 force of will
4 brainstorm
3 ponder
3 hymn to tourach
3 abrupt decay
3 fatal push
1 to the slaughter
1 sylvan library

SIDEBOARD
3 surgical extraction
2 thoughtseize
2 flusterstorm
2 golgari charm
1 toxic deluge
1 blue elemental blast
1 life from the loam
1 grafdigger's cage
1 pithing needle
1 liliana, the last hope

DT 2-0
S&S 2-1
Grixis Delver 2-0
Grixis Control 2-1

about my last list (this one) :
- adding 2TNN: with STP decks and Push+Snapcaster decks I've found Tarmogoyf a "not real wincon", so I decided to add 2 tnn in order to win the game (without DRS I need more wincons). I'm very impressed with it.
- Deluge sideboard: I think that Deluge could be put into sideboard right now, because 3 push, 3 decay, 1 slaughter, 1 hope, 2 veil , 4 strix should be enough.
- Against combo decks, it is a difficult matchup maindeck, but in G2-G3 I can play very well against: 2 fluster, 2 seize, 3 surgical (+1 grafdigger, +1 needle, +1 beb for different matchups)

So, have u tried a similar deck? What do u think about that list?

PS: I don't need 3-4 Noble hierarch in this deck, because in my opinion I don't want to draw Hierarch in the middle-late game..and then, Hierarch doesn't produce black mana -.-...

you seem to do really well with your lists (delver or midrange), what do you prefer right now?

this is my current list

2x Bayou
1x Forest
1x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
2x Tropical Island
3x Underground Sea
3x Wasteland

3x Baleful Strix
2x Gurmag Angler
2x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
3x Snapcaster Mage

2x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
2x Diabolic Edict
4x Fatal Push
4x Force of Will

2x Hymn to Tourach
1x Inquisition of Kozilek => 3rd hymn
4x Ponder
2x Thoughtseize
1x Toxic Deluge

2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Liliana, the Last Hope

SB:

2x Bitterblossom
2x Dread of Night
2x Flusterstorm
1x Hymn to Tourach => hydroblast
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Nihil Spellbomb => lilianas defeat
1x Pithing Needle
3x Surgical Extraction
1x Sylvan Library
1x Maelstrom Pusle

i might aswell play grixis... i had the feeling that the bug list needed more one drops to compensate the tempo loss caused by the drs ban. so i play the full playset of fatal pushes and the 2 maindeck thoughtseizes. i would add another hymn for the inquisition. with 3 snapcaster i would only play 3 surgical extractions as graveyard hate. lilianas defeat seems to be a strong sb card right now. i try to max out the value of the snapcasters after sideboarding. the grixis lists often play 2 pithing needles in the sb, which is a good option too - answers as cheap as possible !

it basically breaks down to:

kolaghans command, bolt, pyroblast vs abrupt decay, leovold, sylvan library and an answer to bitterblossom (abrupt decay) in the control mirror

[toffee]

you seem to do really well with your lists (delver or midrange), what do you prefer right now?

this is my current list

2x Bayou
1x Forest
1x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
2x Tropical Island
3x Underground Sea
3x Wasteland

3x Baleful Strix
2x Gurmag Angler
2x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
3x Snapcaster Mage

2x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
2x Diabolic Edict
4x Fatal Push
4x Force of Will

2x Hymn to Tourach
1x Inquisition of Kozilek => 3rd hymn
4x Ponder
2x Thoughtseize
1x Toxic Deluge

2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Liliana, the Last Hope

SB:

2x Bitterblossom
2x Dread of Night
2x Flusterstorm
1x Hymn to Tourach => hydroblast
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Nihil Spellbomb => lilianas defeat
1x Pithing Needle
3x Surgical Extraction
1x Sylvan Library
1x Maelstrom Pusle

i might aswell play grixis... i had the feeling that the bug list needed more one drops to compensate the tempo loss caused by the drs ban. so i play the full playset of fatal pushes and the 2 maindeck thoughtseizes. i would add another hymn for the inquisition. with 3 snapcaster i would only play 3 surgical extractions as graveyard hate. lilianas defeat seems to be a strong sb card right now. i try to max out the value of the snapcasters after sideboarding. the grixis lists often play 2 pithing needles in the sb, which is a good option too - answers as cheap as possible !

it basically breaks down to:

kolaghans command, bolt, pyroblast vs abrupt decay, leovold, sylvan library and an answer to bitterblossom (abrupt decay) in the control mirror

I prefer Control because DT and RUG become relevant in the metagame.
About my list I have no idea with the sideboard...I don't know what could be the best configuration.. blossom? vendilion? I don't know.
So, MD I can play well against all matchups. I'm very impressed with it.

[Hanni]

Toxic Deluge is such a nonbo in lists with multiple TNN's... and if you're already built to make BB for Hymn anyway, why not run Marsh Casualties instead?

[toffee]

Toxic Deluge is such a nonbo in lists with multiple TNN's... and if you're already built to make BB for Hymn anyway, why not run Marsh Casualties instead?

probabilistically speaking, there is a little percentage where I have a TNN onto the battlefield and a Toxic Deluge in hand...this one can be a wincon against a lot of matchups, because increases x/1 creatures....so I prefer this one.
On the other hand, marsh casualties can be a replace of Golgari Charm, but I MUST have a enchantment-destroy and a regenerate ability.
if I played 3 tnn, I would most likely remove the deluge for casualties.

I will have a big tournament 1-2 september..so I think that my sideboard should look like this:

3 surgical extraction
2 thoughtseize
2 flusterstorm
1 vendilion clique
1 golgari charm
1 toxic deluge
1 blue elemental blast
1 life from the loam
1 diabolic edict
1 pithing needle
1 liliana, the last hope

[toffee]

tonight I made 3-0-1 in my local tournament with this list:

4 Baleful Strix
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 Gurmag Angler

2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
1 To the Slaughter
1 Sylvan Library

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest

Sideboard
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Flusterstorm
2 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Golgari Charm
1 Liliana, the Last Hope

d&t 2-0
grixis control 2-1
ub shadow 2-0
ant i.d. for 1th-2th place (I won 2-1, thanks to sideboard).

what do u think about my list?
I think u can see the reasons of my sideboard (for example snapcaster-pierce-fluster-seize).. so I have a question: do u think that we must play at least 3 graveyard hate? what are your thoughts?

[xix]

tonight I made 3-0-1 in my local tournament with this list:

4 Baleful Strix
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 Gurmag Angler

2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
1 To the Slaughter
1 Sylvan Library

Sideboard
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Flusterstorm
2 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Golgari Charm
1 Liliana, the Last Hope

what do u think about my list?
I think u can see the reasons of my sideboard (for example snapcaster-pierce-fluster-seize).. so I have a question: do u think that we must play at least 3 graveyard hate? what are your thoughts?

Yes on the 3 gy hate... just can't get away from it right now, you could try to go 2 surgical 1 nihil I still like 3 surgical

I am running 2 leo/4strix/2 gurmag + 2 TNN +3 snap instead of the 4 Tarmo/3 leov - I test the tombstalker in gurmag spot, but its hard to justify the BB. But I don't want to leave snaps out of a control deck.

Firm on 2 jace + 1 last hope , from there I am circling: lotv/2nd last hope/4th snap/Bitterblossom (which has overperformed)

Argument for less creatures and a few more maindeck discards. but that would be trimming snaps/gurmags or tnn. which for me would be -1 TNN for another discard spell like thoughtseize maindeck

Sideboard wise:

I would play 1-2 needle

I like 1of's: (not all 3 necessarily but 1 of them at least)
ensnaring bridge
life from the loam
second library

Sweepers: some combo of: 1-2 spots
marsh
toxic
golgari
with 3 decay main I am lower on golgari charm as it only gives you outs vs eotgr/omni/sneak,random enchantment, and needle can handle sneak/griselbrand/planeswalkers

I am not very high on the sideboard spell pierce's , I would add 2 hydroblast before I would play spell pierce. or even 2 more Edicts.

rest looks reasonable based on your maindeck

[Raffaele191]

hey guys! I took a break from the deck after trying to figure out the best version of the deck without drs (rip), yesterday I played this decklist in the italian nationals side event tournament (70 ppl). The list is the upgraded version of Dean Paul and Petr Sochurek's PT25th one by a guy on mtgo (Kikurek, props to him, you can find it here https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1308267#paper).

2 Inquistion of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Hmyn to Tourach
3 Baleful Strix
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Dark Confidant
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 True-Name Nemesis
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
1 Sylvan Library
1 Search for Azcanta
2 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
3 Wasteland

1 Pithing Needle
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Liliana, The Last Hope
1 Life from the Loam
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Fatal Push
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Marsh Casualties
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Golgari Charm
2 Dread of Night

Deck was a blast, really fun to play. I won with Big eldrazi twice, UW miracles twice, Burn and lost to Death's Shadow (topdeck war) and Dragon Stompy (mulled to 5 aggresively to find answers, didn't get fow, his start was t1 chalice t2 rabblemaster t3 chandra into blood moon). In few matchups I felt the need of basics, hence i'll try to add 1 swamp and 1 island. Hope this helps developing!

[beta]

This is a great card.. might just make bug playable again.

[Thresh84]

this is a great card.. Might just make bug playable again.

m[bug]ga!

[meffeo]

This is a great card.. might just make bug playable again.

Looks great but bear in mind that's counterable.

[marshalltj]

This is a great card.. might just make bug playable again.

I think this card has huge implications for BUG in Legacy. Probably a split of AD and this is still right BUT it keeps occurring to me how many cards this card deals with that BUG usually has difficulty with: Jace, Gurmag, Batterskull and any Eldrazi to name a few. I think it's a lot better than Dismember and where I was usually running mainboard Edict I'll probably run this instead as well. The main thing I'm weighing is if I want more of this or more Abrupt decay. Some kind of 3/2 split seems good.