3-1 tonight, played pretty badly in spots and ran quite lucky, such is life:
R1 2-0 > Bg Pox (splashing Loam & Decay) - easy matchup honestly, can't remember losing a game to a Pox deck in a list with 4x Baleful Strix. Beat a T1 Smallpox to wipe my board of DRS and Sea in G1, quite comfortably.
R2 0-2 < Miracles (Whitefaces, member on here) - Tough matchup, really you're relying on your opponent making mistakes. G1 Liliana TLH gave me a chance but he found an Unexpectedly for it. G2 handily outplayed. We both mulled and I aggressively tried to Force through a T3 Hymn = no Force for the follow-up Jace that remained in his hand.
R3 2-0 > Abzan Deathblade - Baleful Strix > Tarmogoyf.
R4 2-1 > Deathrite Goblins - played the back end of G2 and G3 total shit, mostly down to inexperience, not respecting Warchief and not playing around all possible Matron targets. Pondered into a Marsh Casualties for a somewhat undeserved G3 win however.
The list feels fantastic and no changes to make right now. A few notes:
- Standout cards were Lili TLH which is just fantastic and dominated the Deathblade matchup, Sylvan Library (very few Decays at the moment), and Painful Truths out of the board. Again I think giving up on Kommand to play straight Sultai is fine when there are still these excellent options available for grinding - Painful Truths in particular strikes me as highly underrated and I'd like to try a second copy at some point, so hard to lose after resolving it.
- Daze was notable through its absence in several spots where it would have been game-winning, though of course it helps that nobody plays around it out of a Baleful Strix deck. At no point was i unhappy to have drawn one and there were a number of spots where I wished to have one in hand.
- The removal suite feels good. 5 feels on the low side for this type of deck but I didn't miss the extra Fatal Push even in the relevant matchups, the 3 sweepers post board more than make up for it.
Plan on running it back once more next week.
Any thoughts on Bob atm? I guess he's better in lists with Goyf as well so you have a critical mass of kill-on-sight threats.
I top 8'ed the Quest for Power event in Baltimore yesterday, going 5-0-2 in the Swiss beating Lands, Deathblade, Grixis Delver, BUG Delver, and Food Chain then double-drawing into top 8. I ran afoul of my D&T opponent's four maindeck Mirran Crusaders in games 2 and 3 of my top 8 match, but got an FBB Sea with the credit. Not a bad run.
List was:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
3 True-Name Nemesis
3 Baleful Strix
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize
3 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ponder
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Island
Sideboard
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Flusterstorm
1 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Sylvan Library
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Countersquall
1 Vendilion Clique
There are a couple of small changes I'd consider (cutting a Goyf for a Tombstalker, changing the Bayou/Trop split, working a Jitte into the 75, moving Hymns to the main, adding a third Decay) but the deck felt great. Unfortunately, I didn't get to test Bob.
Last edited by btm10; 12-26-2017 at 11:38 AM.
Hi,
the deck is very popular in the southern area of Germany and Austria/Switzerland.Marius Hausmann, Pascal Richter and also me are playing it up and down and it´s really strong and balanced. You can check out the results here -> http://mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=86&meta=72&f=LE
I think that most people who want to play a BGx deck just pick up 4c Czech Pile currently over the BUG Midrange version because Kolaghans Command and Pyroblasts are just very strong...I think that TNN+Jitte+Wastelands are the upsides we have if you compare it with 4c Pile.
If you want to know more just ask.
Greeting Franz
Currently playingEldrazi
Hey, thanks for the reply. I have been jamming it a few times and I too find it quite well balanced in most matches (even though i am not that good of a player ).
Going by Marius list at MKM, what are your general thoughts and approach towards the usual decks like Grixis Delver, Lands and Miracles (have seen many players picking it up as of late).
Hi,
Been playing close to Marius list, but haven't been doing well lately. Going 1 - 3. I have been playing.
Decklist:
15 Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
24 Spells
2 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
4 Force of Will
2 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Liliana the last Hope
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
21 Lands
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
1 Island
1 Swamp
I haven't been impressed with the hymn.
I know it is a 2 for 1.
1) early I feel I lose tempo without putting a threat down or digging for treats/answers.
2) late game it is bad
I don't know if I'm playing Hymn that well or when do you play the spell?
Also been contemplating putting in a search for azcanta, don't know if it would be good.
1) It helps a semi scry early
2) The deck is very mana hungry so can be good when it flips
3) helps late game getting a jitte or planeswalker if you have no more threats.
What is everyones thoughts
What do you side in against BUG delver?
Thanks
I find myself more and more in need for a Forest, even though I know it's an awful but necessary land to play (see Hymn/JTMS/Lili/TNN). Will switch with a fetchland and test it tomorrow night.
Given my local meta, a second Jitte is not needed and therefore I cut a TNN and replaced them with a 3rd Snapcaster and a Liliana otV. The deck is a lot of fun to play and in my opinion has a fine matchup against Czech Pile!
Only I had terrible run with the deck it seems?
I got continusly screwed up by the mana base (like, basic + wastelands cutting off colors I need)
few removals
useless snappy cuz I've no target
marsh casualities not cleaning what I want vs Taxes (hard to achieve 5 mana AND BB vs nut good draws and boardstate from them)
clearly, I'm not saying the deck is bad:
Jitte + Nemesi when assemble is often GG and we have all the good things a bug can have, yet I'm surprize the time I've been playing it I've mostly had bad situations compared to Pile, even If I feel like everyone is prepared for what Pile has to offers, while few are really prepared for the rougue merfolk swordman.
I'm not as high on the TNN/Hymn lists that seem to be popular in Europe as I am on the list I posted above. The 1-mana discard spells both make Snapcaster/JVP better and give a smoother cost distribution for curving out. They also make it easier to cast your spells since you only need BB for Liliana. I also prefer Golgari Charm to Marsh Casualties because it's an instant, it's easier to cast, and the Demystify mode is often relevant.
I agree that BUG is favored against Czech Pile, and would extend that to Grixis Control, Grixis Delver, and Miracles as well. Even with my easier color requirements, I'm still on the fence about Forest, so I'm interested in seeing how your testing goes. If you've tried my list from above, I'd be interested in your results there too.
For reference:
4 DRS
4 Strix
3 SCM
2 Leovold
2 TNN
4 BS
2 Push
3 Ponder
2 Tseize
2 AD
1 Edict
2 Hymn
1 Jitte
1 Liliana otV
2 JTMS
4 FoW
1 Bayou
1 Island
4 Misty
4 Delta
1 Swamp
2 Trop
3 Usea
2 Verdant
3 Wasteland
SB
2 Flusterstorm
2 Hydroblast
3 Surgical
1 Edict
2 Hymn
1 Loam
2 Marsh Casualties
1 KGrip
1 Liliana tlH
So far multiples 3-1 (quite a small sample) but I found myself locked out by Blood Moon decks (was not able to cast Decay on Chalice because of Moon and/or Hydroblast on Moon because of Chalice), that is the reason behind the Forest. Still not 100% sure to cut a Fetchland to make room for the basic and consequently to weaken the deck against the field but hey, it's probably a necessary evil.
I think if you are playing BUG/Pile/Delver, you just accept that you are gonna get Blood Mooned some games. In the long run, I think you will lose more games because you have a basic Forest in your opener than win games where you are able to fetch Swamp + Forest before the Moon comes down and then draw into a Decay while it still matters. Green is a super light splash, all of your impact spells are blue or black. I get the temptation to want to make yourself more resilient against Moon decks, but that simply isn't possible in this color combination while also getting to run Wasteland. If Blood Moon is a huge part of your meta then you need to mull to FoW or run a deck that can support basics. Otherwise, I think you just accept that you are gonna get some bad beats occasionally from Moon decks.
Yeah, those are basically my thoughts after a couple hours of thinking. Luckily my meta is not that filled by Moons so I will stick to the original manabase.
@btm10: You sure about GCharm? It kills more than 50% of your threats and you get the Demystify effect from the Grip.
I’m 100% sure about GCharm. It, like the Forest, is somewhat better in my list since I’m running more green cards and additional threats that survive it, but Instant speed and being easier to cast count for a lot. Killing your own stuff is usually not a real concern in the matchups where -X/-X effects matter. Even I’m lukewarm on the Forest, and my deck is much greener than yours.
Another small sample, 2-2 at the local, I faced:
Miracles 2-0, Hydroblasted a Moon in G2.
Painter 2-0, Hydroblasted a Moon, Decayed another one (thanks to BG floating) and Pushed a Magus of the Moon and won through JTMS + Lili.
Ant 0-2, he drew the nuts both games.
Miracles 1-2, won through JTMS and lost G3 with the opponent at 1 life into topdecked Terminus and afterward... Moon.
I played the list I posted yesterday, without Forest. Would it have been better with the singleton basic? Probably not, so I will stick to the original 75s.
What’s your sb and game plan against miracles. Due to their resurgence of late, I am thinking of upping
the abrupt decay count to 3. Even without top, the soft lock of counterbalance coupled with cantrips seem to be
an uphill battle for us. Not to mention after board, they will bring in mentors
Hey, picked up the deck b/c it looked sweet and rode it to 2nd place at a ~30 person tournament. Had very little time to test matchups, so took one of Hausmann's lists (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18145&d=312500&f=LE) with these changes:
MD:
+1 Sylvan Library, -1 Jitte (moved to SB)
+1 Vendilion Clique, -1 Leovold (didn't have a 2nd Leo)
SB:
-1 blue blast (not much SnS/Moon decks), +1 Jitte (moved from main)
-1 Liliana, the last hope (couldn't find one), +1 Pithing Needle (lots of marit lage, DnT)
-1 Krosan Grip, +1 Abrupt Decay (can anyone explain Kgrip's advantages? seems like AD does everything I'd want and has more applications)
Tournament:
Round 1 (won 2-0): BUG midrange with crop rotation package
This guy had similar cards, but a crop rotation package for DD combo, bojuka bog, cabal pit, and cephalid coliseum (??), plus stifles to protect it.
G1 he taps out t3 for Liliana of the Veil, I decay it end step and untap with Jace.
G2 We both have jace, but mine lands first and I quickly find a TNN and he only has strix. I go face and he tries to fatesteal me out, but I Needle his jace once he gets to 13 and attack for lethal the following turn.
SB: -4 FoW, +2 Hymn, +1 Life from the Loam, +1 Edict (Swapping forces for more hymns was one of my more common boarding strategies)
Round 2 (lost 1-2): Death & Taxes with quad Mirran Crusader
G1: He's feeling pretty good with a board of Mom, Mirran Crusader, and Stoneforge Mystic against my DRS and 2x Strix. But he's tapped out and I have 4 mana with Jitte in hand. One hit with an equipped Strix and I run away with the game.
G2: STP hits my deathrite and he gets out crusader and mom vs. my Leovold+Strix, followed up by Gideon, Avenger of Zendikar. I Needle his Gideon, but have to play carefully to avoid him Flickwisping Needle (his Cavern had named Elemental) and combing with Crusader for lethal. My only out is to get up to 5 mana for kicked marsh casualties and I go into full dig mode to find more mana (deck was not providing lands). I get an another deathrite and have my 4th land on top of my library and need to fade one drawstep, but he rips Thalia and I lose
G3: I had a really interesting scenario here that I believe I misplayed. His board is 4 lands, Batterskull equipped with SoFI, a Stoneforge Mystic, a Flickerwisp, and Vial on 3. My board is triple TNN. My hand is Marsh Casualties + Abrupt Decay, his hand is Jitte + 3 unknowns. Life totals are 10-14. I swing with 2 TNNs to put him to 8 and at the end of my turn, he activates Vial - Do you decay SoFI in response?
- If he has Sanctum Prelate and names "2", I lose on the spot unless I Decay in response.
- If I Decay in response and he has a 5th land, he can move Skull onto Flickerwisp and I have one draw step to get Strix, Push, or Edict (and deal w/ Jitte coming down).
I chose not to decay in response and he had Prelate. I felt bad, then felt like maybe it had been the right play. However, my opponent pointed out that he'd missed his land drop for the turn, to he needed to rip the 5th land to make the Batterskull equip play possible. So I think firing off Decay was correct, but it was interesting for sure.
SB: -4 FoW, -2 Jace, +2 Casualties, +1 Jitte, +1 Neelde, +1 Edict, +1 Hymn (I went 4th Hymn over Library and opted not to bring in Loam, but maybe I should have?)
Round 3 (won 2-0): Food Chain
G1: We trade Decays and Deathrites and I hit him with some discard and land a TNN. He gets Griffin + Food Chain, but can't find a payoff in time and dies with Force and a redundant Food Chain in hand.
G2: We kill each other's Deathrites again. I waste his 3rd land, he never draws another one.
I boarded like an idiot, cutting FoW for Hymn, adding an extra Edict, and leaving Needle in the board (For some reason, I forgot Walking Ballista is the kill of choice rather than Emrakul - I should've realized when after I confirmed w/ him that Food Chain was a mana ability and said: "guess i won't need this needle," and he looked very surprised/happy).
Correct board is probably: -1 Edict, + 1 Needle (for Walking Ballista, not Food Chain), and maybe +2 flusterstorms, -1 Jitte, -1 Strix
Round 4 (won 2-1): Grixis Pyromancer
G1: I play USea, go and so does he. I have the option of tapping out for Library t2 or Wasting him. I have a 2nd Wasteland and take that line, only to get super-punished when he topdecks a Thoughtseize and strips my library. I had assumed he was delver and hoped to just waste him out of the game, but I think jamming Library is 100% correct there, as if he is delver and dazes, the wasteland plan just gets better. He then has removal for everything and lands a Gurmag Angler I can't beat.
G2: He fetches basics, which makes it really easy to cut him off colors with Wastelands. He gets Gurmag again, but I land a jace to bounce it, waste his badlands, and he sits on double-basic-island as I Jace him out of the game.
G3: Another very grindy game that goes back and forth until I land TNN+Jace again and run away with it.
My opponent was a Modern guy jamming Legacy for the fun of it and it showed. I had to remind him to draw off Preordains and Probes multiple times and after G3, he revealed that he had left his Pyroblasts in the board, apparently not realizing they can counter TNN on the stack.
SB: -4 FoW, -2 thoughtseize, -1 jace (since I assumed he had 3 blasts), +2 Hymn, +1 Marsh Casualties, +1 Jitte, +1 AD, +1 Edict, +1 Hydroblast
Round 5 (won 2-0): Death and Taxes
G1: I cast t2 Hymn, t3 Hymn, t4 TNN, which leaves him with a Vial and lands and not much to do. He Recruiters up a Crusader, which he hardcasts into my Force of Will.
G2: I get out DRS into TNN into Jitte. He has a Serra Avenger and a SoFI. He taps out t4 for Cataclysm anyway, leaving the his board as unqeuipped Sword, Avenger, Wasteland (+Plains for turn) vs. my Island, TNN+Jitte (2 counters). He's at 14, so I untap and attack for 7, then do it again for lethal. Not sure what his line was there...
SB: same as rd 2
My car placed 2 in top 8 (and one in 9th on breakers....), so not bad!
Quarterfinals (won 2-1): Aluren
Honestly don't remember these games well, but feel EXTREMELY lucky to have gotten there. The matchup feels v. bad as they can grind so hard and I also played and SB'd like a blind idiot.
G1: Our boards are my DRS, Leovold, Strix vs. his DRS, Levold, 2 Strixes. The extra strix edge lets him whittle my life total far enough and I get overwhelmed by value. At one point I had jitte in hand vs his one card in hand and could cast it but not equip. I chose to pass turn, which allowed him to draw blue card+Force and ruin my day when I tried to resolve it. If he'd been holding decay he likely would've cast it already, so that was a particularly poor choice on my part.
G2: We played 5 deathrites in the first 2 turns and 1 of mine survived the ensuing carnage. It was joined by a TNN, and he couldn't race me fast enough.
G3: I had double deathrite, equipped jitte to one, and started swinging. He hit 3 lands and tried to resolve Glissa, the Traitor, but was foiled by his basic island, instead casting Cavern Harpy. the following turn he went for Parasitic Strix and I used a counter on Harpy in response, forcing him to bounce it and denying him the drain 2. He then blocked my jitte'd deathrite with PStrix, allowing me to kill it. I resolved a baleful strix, moved jitte there and started aggressively pumping for damage, which backfired when he pushed it. Fortunately, he never drew his 4th land and died with Aluren x2, Harpy x2 in hand. If he hadn't traded off PStrix, he would've had the kill, but he probably expected me to save the jitte counters to disrupt him (the correct play) instead of pumping aggressively.
SB: Not sure what to take out? Marsh Casualties and Jitte are the MVPs. I cut Forces for Hymns, but I think you want both. You also want TNN b/c you need the clock. So probably -1 Edict, -2 Thoughtseize, -2 Jace, -1 Snapcaster for +2 Hymn, +2 Marsh Casualties, +1 Jitte, +1 AD?
Semifinals (won 2-1): Death and Taxes opponent from Round 2
G1: Got in w/ Strixes, resolved TNNs, had decay for his equipment.
G2: I fetch basics and he kills my DRS then recruiters for Mirran Crusader. He has vial on 3 and i have clique, so I'm super-excited when he taps it on my end step, only to realize my board of Island+swamp+wasteland does not, in fact, cast Vendilion Clique. Crusader is quickly followed by Prelate on 2 and I'm stuck with a hand of Hymns, Decays, and Strixes (which I NOW realize you can cast through Prelate, but did not at the time).
G3: He mulls to 6 and opens on Cavern naming Kor. I waste it and he doesn't draw another land until after I've hit him with Hymn, Hymn, Snap+Hymn.
Finals (lost 0-2): Miracles
G1: I should have won this, but I forced a counterbalance pitching TNN when my board was DRS, Clique, Strix. I'd survived one Terminus and Clique'd away a 2nd, but he hit my Clique with STP and that gave him enough time to find a 3rd and win from literal 1 life. There was a ton of interesting counterplay in this game but basically my opponent found what he needed when he needed it.
G2: I get rolled as he established Jace early vs. my Sylvan Library. My library finds every fetchland in my deck, but zero threats and his Jace crushes me badly.
SB: I took out Forces and went on a discard + Surgical plan. In the future, I'd leave in all 4 Forces and bring in the flusters to fight on the stack. Maybe -2 Push, -1 Edict, -1 Jitte, and +2 Hymn, +2 fluster? Liliana would be good here as well.
====
Anyway, the deck seemed sweet and I liked the list - didn't need the surgicals and flusters b/c I never hit the fast combo decks, but see why they're necessary. I was lucky with my hands - I think I only mulliganed once all tournament - but the deck has a wide range of playable hands, esp. against fair decks. Having both TNN+Jitte and DRS+wasteland gives you a few easy "I win" angles, which is super-important in Legacy. Loam+wasteland out of the board is great for grindy, greedy matchups as well as for fighting mana denial strategies. I acquired a 2nd leovold with my winnings and am looking forward to running it in the future.
Krosan Grip is mainly for Batterskull but its also better at getting rid of Aluren, Sneak Attack, Omniscience and stuff like that.
Its also better vs Blood Moon decks because with only one Shaman we're able to destroy the Moon which wouldnt be able with AD. Another advantage is that the DnT player cannot safe his equipment with a flashed in Flickerwisp or similar things.
Currently playingEldrazi
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