[Deck] Team America (Midrange/Control Thread)

[catmint]

Interesting approach gamegeek.

what comes to my mind:

Without Jace your chances of winning matches in "board control mode" go way down, because when you bring in deed you have to dake out delver and therefore loose the ability to race. So after you traded a lot with maverick and played deed for a 2 or 3 for 1 you need something to win.... Goyf won't get the job done, so without Jace these games are very very hard to win.

21 lands seems just a little low... there are plenty of BUG control lists running confidant... Some of them seem to get away with 21-22 lands because they play confidant as a primary gameplan and have daze. As you said to support the "board control" mode, you need snapcaster, deed and jace which hall require a lot of land drops!

So I like the changes that you want to make. Unearth without confidant does also not seem good. I also think you can easily go down to 1 Ponder and play 3 Jace and 23 lands. You have so much else to do in the early turns that Ponder might prefer to sit in hand and you want to jace and snapcaster in the later turns... I think having the advantage of not needing to Ponder for Lands is a bigger upside than the ability to look for something with Ponder. 1 blue mana is just a lot in Legacy and "all we need to do" is not make sure we don't fall behind before we can play our superior spells.

THe maindeck removal is all 2 cmc which has not a good synergy with snapcaster. These days many people play 1-2 ghastly demise and/or 1-2 dismember. I use 1 GFTT ,2 ghastly demise and 1 dismember.

Against "low-budget decks and/or monocolor decks" (except for dredge and burn, which are tough) I think deed and jace are the most reliable weapons!

[aznepyon7]

Is it possible to play something of a "moderate" version of this deck style, between Stifle-Waste tempo and Jace control? I feel exactly that sort of deck would be excellent for my local metagame, which features numerous regulars but also many low-budget decks and/or monocolor decks. As far as blue decks go, tempo decks aren't seen often where I play, with Bant and Stoneblade being far more common.

Hence, I've come up with this list:

9 Fetches
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
4 Wasteland

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Go for the Throat
2 Smother
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Unearth

--- Sideboard ---
3 Spell Pierce
4 Surgical Extraction
4 Ghastly Demise
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Life from the Loam

I think this list strikes a good compromise in a few ways:

1. It plays 4 Delver of Secrets, which is one of the most efficient creatures I've had the pleasure of playing with in ages. This guy just gets there so often, I find it hard to not justify playing him in a blue deck with an instant/sorcery count above 24 or so.
2. It has 21 lands, which is what the old Team America decks played.
3. It has a strong suite of removal and discard that is capable of dealing with any threat, supported by 4 Wasteland for mana disruption and destroying key lands.
4. It has 22 blue cards for Force of Will.
5. It is capable of entering board-control mode after sideboard.

My main idea for changing the deck is driven out of concern that 21 lands might not be sufficient for this style of deck, given the sort of mana commitment that Snapcaster demands, and (out of the sideboard) Pernicious deed. Hence, I'm considering:

-1 Ponder
-2 Unearth
+1 Fetch/Bayou/Trop/Tar Pit
+2 Jace

In this case, I would have 2 Jace in place of the Unearths, and 1 Ponder would be gone in favor of another land. This would make the deck more controlling, and would diminish the effectiveness of Delver somewhat; however, 24 "hits" is still a good 40% chance of flipping, even larger when you factor in BS/Ponder setups and fetches. If this is too significant I could see putting the 4th Ponder or another Unearth back in for a Jace.

Stifle-wasteland is more of a Tempo TA that isn't as effective as it used to be. I find it just better to go discard/ up the counter power with Snares/Pierces.

Try using 1 Ghastly Demise MD. Still think in tempo, without Tombstalker, it's quite playable.

Smother seems to be doing quite well. I would probably consider that over GftT. Perhaps a 3:1? Alternatively, you could change one GftT for a Dismember (highly recommend) which makes it a bit more tempoish but seems to be very effective to speed the deck up when you want to leave mana open for counter/discard.

I dislike BUG control's lack of punch against faster decks. That has always been my biggest criticism with the deck. I would like more if possible, but I'm not sure Delver is the answer. It lacks punch in the later game which it is important to make every card count.

I think Jace should be MD. It really helps against Maverick and other decks that TA tempo has an issue with. It really is core in BUG control and I don't think adding 2 will really hurt the deck.

Also consider Liliana. It's quite good but I don't think more than 1 is necessary if you run 2 Jace. Liliana really prevents combo from ever gaining back ground. It crushes both creature-based and storm-based combo f you can get it going.

Alternatively, 2 Lilianas and 1 Jace might work. Haven't tested that though.

Good luck with playtesting. Let us know the results!

EDIT:

So the changes I recommend makes it a bit more controllish than what you originally had but I think it will be more effective. I think it really hinges on how effective Delver will be. I hope it works.

Summary:

+ 1 Dismember/Ghastly Demise; -1 2 CC removal
+2 Jace (maybe Liliana?)


Also I don't think you even need 3 Ponders. Try 2? I also think 20-21 Blue count still makes it quite consistent. I'm quite adamant on never letting the blue count drop below 19 despite the common belief that 18 is sufficient.

[TonyRo]

What are everyone's thoughts on Levin list posted yesterday (EDIT: Today but I'm a night-owl) on SCG?

[atropos]

What are everyone's thoughts on Levin list posted yesterday (EDIT: Today but I'm a night-owl) on SCG?

Can you link us with the list, please?

[Samara]

I was looking at the decklists and saw that, often, people run cards just for their power, while ignoring the specific role that the card would offer in a gameplan.

people sometimes missunderstand the way that the cards affect the gameplan, that leads to confusions about costs and tempo/control cards been used in suboptimal ways

So, to help these people, also for organize my own ideas about the cards I would like to use that I write that.

If someone has found something WRONG or something to complement, be free to write some as well. It's just that I learned a bunch of stuff about BUG these times, and would like to share with all you o/

I'm not trying to look the master of BUG o.o... I still have a lot that I just don't understand.

(forgive the english errors, I still learning english ^^)

Also, for those who don't like it, forgive the Team America talk, but understanding how team america works is very important for BUG on what NOT TO DO.

Bug/TA Deck Tech and Explanations:

--- Must have cards for TA, BUG or Hybrid.

4 Force of will - No one likes geting 2-1, but you need it, or you will lose for combo, or a first turn vial, goblin lackey, sometimes even a first turn stifle can lock you out of the game.

4 Brainstorm - If you running TEMPO use 4, If you are running Hybrid use 4... If you are running control, use [5-6], ohh..you can't, so use 4.


* < That means "Recomendation".

TA AMERICA [Full TEMPO build] Only In TA.

Stifle [0or4] - Inconsistency in mana denial is not your solution for room problems, run always 0 or 4, and don't even think about being a dead card in lategame, if you are thinking about lategame, then you are doing it wrong, go to BUG Hybrid or Bug control.

Wasteland [4] - No, you have no option here, if you are playing a Tempo build, you will play 4. Don't you dare to run Basics in team america!

Daze [3-4*] - Daze its very important in TA since it alows you to always tap out for playing e every disruption or threat that you can while interacting with the aswers that opponent will try to provide. It's very strong in TA because the fast clock and fast disrupt and mana denial "calls" your opponent into your daze, and if he knows you have it, he will play around it, that's also is great for TA.

----------------------------------

BUG control - [Full CONTROL build] Only in BUG.

Pernicious Deed/Enginnered Explosives [0-2] - If you are going full control, you need someway to swap the board or a way to actualy reach late game.

Ancestral Vision - If you are not running confidants. You NEED something <o>... ANYTHING that gives you card advantage (and snapcaster), how do you expect to aswer the cards of a deck that runs fewer lands (that means more things) than you if you are not neting cards?...hum!? How?! Tell me! O.o

3th Jace- Probabily your strongest win condition, if you don't trust me, trust jace, he knows what he's talking about.

---------------------------------

Hand Disruption Package

Tempo Packages
1CMC - Thoughtsieze - You don't care about your life totals, if you are running stifles and dazes, you care about maximum card quality, because you have fewer lands (so more cards) and you have the fastest clock. If you are running 1CMC Disruption run 4*

2CMC - Hymn to Tourach - It's realy important that people doesn't build their deck with "what if i get hymned?" in theirs heads, use this in your advantage, if you hit 2 lands, you can go full land disruption for the win, If you hit 2 Nom-lands you know that probabily his gameplan will not be acomplished this time, use all information in your favor, delay their aswers can be vital to beat fast.

BUG Control Packages

1CMC - Thoughtsieze/IofK/Duress- You CARE about your life total, removing a early threat is very important to stabilish control at time. If you run Thoughtsiezes, Run 2 and 2 Inquisition of Kozilek. This will help you to diminish your self inflicted damage that could be important in a long matchup. I use 3 Inquisitions. (Cause it hits almost everything that matters) Also rememeber here that you have more lands and more time to abuse snapcastering, so 1CMC may not be so much of a 1 for 1. Also Information is even more critical for you, knowing what to counter and what to pinch to FoW can most times make you win a game by snaring that stoneforger istead of taping out.

2CMC - Hymn to Tourach - This time you don't want to ruin their early plan, istead, you may use to steal that last piece of resistence of the player, using when he has 4 cards in hand, starting to get back in the game can be very strong. Also using with snapcaster is more of "real value" if you are going control.

------------------------------------

Removal Package

I often see people confused about this. Actualy a strong removal package for a TA or BUG is simple, but using 4 Go for the Throat in your FULL tempo build or running 4 dismembers in your BUG is not the way to get there. (but also kills)

A important thing is that if you are running control, and decided by run 4 toughtsiezes, you can't use 3 dismembers. You will just die... and if you use bob! Are u insane?

I will show what would be a optimal removal suite for every archetype.

Tempo Removal Suite:
[2-3] Ghastly Demise - Stifles, wastelands, ponders, fecthes, I can't see you not dealing with a goyf here. Remember that people also cast Knight of the Reliquary or Terravore, BUT You have a counterspell suite for this, Also, they are 3CMC, So smother wouldn't hit then too. (Sometimes demise does)
[1-3] Dismember - Dismember is a snuff out for people how use 4 Snapcasters or for people how wish they could cast snuff out without losing 4 life EVERYTIME.
[0-2] Snuff Out - Snuff out is GREAT for FULL tempo build, obvious reasons, but I would rather use always with Dismember, for dealing with black creatures in some way. Also If you plan to abuse snapcaster, don't run this. (you shouldn't abuse snapcaster so much in a full tempo build, you don't have 23 lands!)
[0-1] Go for the Throat/Smother - You just can't pay 2CMC for a removal, also with fewer lands, using this with snapcaster would be hell.

Control Removal Suite:
[1-3] Ghastly Demise - You are not so good in filling grave, also you could have a lot other ways to dealing with creatures, like spell snare. Still, killing for 1CMC, being able to snapcaster easily is always good. In full control, I only expect this in mid-late game. Also wanna be able to shuffle back if I lack cards in grave to kill a big creature.
[1-4] Go for the Throat - If you are facing lategame, expect a lot of KotR.
[0-1] Smother - If you has deed in MB, I don't see that being so necessary, Also It shares the same target as Snare.

------------------------------

Creatures Package

I also see people using wrong creatures for their own gameplan.

Tempo Creature Suite:
4 Tarmogoyf (no, there is no option here, you will run 4.)
[0-4] Tombstalker - Tombstalker is evasive and kills in 4 turns, TA realy needs a fast clock, because if the game goes long, he won't (suppose to not) be able to handle a control matchup
[0-2] Terravore - Its a earth tombstalker, has trample, kills fast, Same as above. Also, if you are gonna run bobs (you shouldn't in tempo build) you should avoid using tombstalker.
[2-4] Snapcaster Mage - Some would say "auto 4" but I think being a 3CMC "do anything" is still a 3CMC, if you are going TA, you probabily should run [3*-4] of these.
[0-2] Vendillion Clique - Again, helps to disrupt the opponent game plan while being evasive and hiting 3. Still, is 3CMC, I rather using more Snapcasters.

Control Creature Suite:
[If you are running not creatures: Sometimes only snapcasters with deed MD and 3 jaces may be very strong, If you chose to only run snapcasters, consider using 3 sower of temptation or vedalken shackles in SB for after they sideout their removal]

[3-4*] Tarmagoyf - Even if you are not in strong clock plan, people use Goyf, and the best aswer to goyf is a goyf. Use 3 only if you use at least 2 of another big creature. You still need him to go down.
[0-2] Terravore/Tombstalker - This would work here as a finisher, diferently from TA, here you need only 2.
[3-4*] Snapcaster Mage - Think of it as a 3CMC spell that does anything that you need. Also blocks.

----------------------------

Random Cards comments.

If you wanna go Hybrid, you have to be fast, what's the point of go hybrid and not being fast enoght? So you would just go control right? So be Hybrid looks very much with a tempo build, but without the "suicide" cards and with a 3th jace.

Have some way of drawing cards, and some way of protecting that. You can't just use Bob and no daze and no 1CMC disruption, bob is gonna die, so if you are gonna use bobs, Use anything that protects him (besides force of will, or course)

If you are gonna use Delver of Secrets, You can't do it in a more Controlish build!, If you are taping a delver, you want at least tap a goyf also, could be a mishra, anything. But using delver in a deck that lack the ability to abuse of it's TEMPO gain, its at least suboptimal.

If you expect late game... Watch for late-dead cards, like daze or stifle. (please don't run stifle in hybrid)

If you are going to use stifle, wasteland and daze. You can't use DEED! or even the 3th jace. If your deck has the ability of geting a tempo advantage, it should as well, be able to win the game BEFORE the opponent stabilishes, So a strong clock like Goyf or Tombstalker is realy necessary.

o.o... that's it... now I notice that I did not talk about the counterspell suite. If someone else wanna do it, that's ok by me... If no one does, I do it someday.

So, what u guys think?

[jandax]

Congrats, Catmint at getting this thread in the DTB!

@ Levin's list questions:

It's probably a step in the right direction. I really like the deck but for the life of me I just can't win with it. Maybe it's my play style (not control), maybe it's all the play mistakes I make, but I just don't feel a list that we/the thread have been discussing can win in the hands of multiple people like UWx Stoneblade/GWr Maverick can. Through experience and a bit of research I conclude that at least for myself BUG control isn't a deck to be playing right now.

Levin's list on the other hand does things that are adapting to the proper metagame, I like the ideas behind it. With any deck it's going to need some testing.

[fdiv_bug]

Can you link us with the list, please?

His list is:

3 Pernicious Deed
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
1 Ghastly Demise
1 Go for the Throat
1 Repeal
4 Spell Snare
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Ancestral Vision
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Thoughtseize
1 Forest
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

He leaves the sideboard as an exercise to the reader, pretty much. I like the look of it, but I used to run BUG Landstill back in the day, so I like the slow "where are your win-cons?" kind of decks. I'd probably replace the Sunken Ruins with a Creeping Tar Pit, but that might just be my preference. I was also thinking of replacing the 1 Ghastly Demise/1 Go for the Throat/1 Repeal with 3 Dismember (or maybe leaving the Repeal and just going with 2 Dismember).

[catmint]

Thanks for the good overview Samara...


Levins approach is quite different and I surely want to test and think about it.
Concerning adapting to beat maverick I posted the following result/list earlier in the thread.

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...4&iddeck=53448

biggest question is if the 2/1 body really matters in game 1 (postboard surely with goyf).

The reason why i still like goyf is because there are some matchups like dredge, burn u/r burn, combo where an early goyf increases your chances of winning significantly. Feels easier to side him out than siding him in.

I like my postboard matchup versus maverick so i can see myself running a different configuration of "the same" 75 to have more board control maindeck. Giving up Hymn and snapcaster like levin is kind of weird, but he obviously relies on visions to get ahead.

Concerning the removal I would surely include some amout of innocent blood in levins deck.

[Koby]

I like the approach (and have been thinking along the same lines, Deed > Maverick), but I can't get behind the heavy lean on Liliana during a stale board presence without also including Life from the Loam. I tried to theorize a list during my boring meeting this morning and I stumbled on what I usually remember the BUG-still lists looking like.

I second the idea of Creeping Tarpit for the more Landstill version. It also seems like a few manlands are missing from the deck in general.

[wcm8]

Herp derp, let's take Deedstill, add Liliana, call it a new deck and write an article about it.

Plenty of decks only run 4-5 removal spells in the main anyways, so the value you gain from not giving them targets needs to exceed the value of running good creatures. In this metagame and with the options available in BUG I don't think the value's there. A 'pure control' deck is going to have difficulty in an open meta without Mental Misstep.

I also think his build would get rocked hard by UR/URG delver.

[Koby]

I also think his build would get rocked hard by UR/URG delver.

Lightning Bolt in general.

[wcm8]

^Add to that REB and Pyroblast.

And not only is Ancestral Visions terribly slow, but it's yet another Stifle target.

[xfxf]

Herp derp, let's take Deedstill, add Liliana, call it a new deck and write an article about it.

Plenty of decks only run 4-5 removal spells in the main anyways, so the value you gain from not giving them targets needs to exceed the value of running good creatures. In this metagame and with the options available in BUG I don't think the value's there. A 'pure control' deck is going to have difficulty in an open meta without Mental Misstep.

I also think his build would get rocked hard by UR/URG delver.

This.

Prior to MM ban some BUG Deedstill lists already started replacing the Standstills with Ancestral Visions, his list is like a rehash of some of the ideas BUG Deedstill players tried out after the ban. As control players we like to be able to play classic control decks with few win conditions, board sweepers and counterspells but this is not it.

In Legacy you have to control the board, the stack and the graveyard. Such classic control lists are aiming to control only the board. But even with the board control strategy these decks are still weak to fast aggro decks and red decks. There is an abundance of those currently. Also you don't have enough non-conditional, strong counterspells to play a purely defensive game against combo decks, you don't have discard effects to preemptively disrupt combo decks, you don't have efficient ways to deal with graveyard strategies other than straight-up hate. So if you can't beat combo and you can't beat aggro what good is a control deck? I'm afraid blue control "has to" include the "aggro" element in this meta.

[Samara]

biggest question is if the 2/1 body really matters in game 1 (postboard surely with goyf).

The reason why i still like goyf is because there are some matchups like dredge, burn u/r burn, combo where an early goyf increases your chances of winning significantly. Feels easier to side him out than siding him in.

Concerning the removal I would surely include some amout of innocent blood in levins deck.

I don't think the body matters at all. I think it may be used to block but isn't a win con... He only relies on jace to that.

The aproach of "full control, no creatures" (the snapcaster is there only for recuring spells), plays much more like a standstill running black (deedstill) than a BUG at, the "no hymn" in a control deck surely make this clear. Even so. In a meta so full os tempo archetype I won't see it as a good choice.

Using no Goyf surely is a atempt to "blank" the removal spells... The engine of the deck is deed+liliana for board control and jace+ancestral vision for card advantage, so I can see why Hymn it's not such a good ideia, You are gaining from "useless" cards in his hand, so you rather have counters instead of discard.

[CookedChestnuts]

Drew Levin is an idiot. Why would he recommend this pile when one of the most played decks (UR Delver), plays 3-4 Price of Progress main, RUG Tempo is a deck that eats this alive, Liliana isn't that great, Maverick is a tier 1 deck, especially Punishing Maverick to remove his Planeswalkers.

Herr derr, typical Drew Levin article. It's like a bad BUGStill.

[sdematt]

I like where his article is going in this sense: you should try playing BUG colours since Deed is great. That's a pretty cool point, so I'm all ears for that.

I don't REALLY agree with his list, since I've been running Counterspells in Thopters for a while now, and I've been unimpressed (especially in a 2-3 colour deck, ugh). I'd actually suggest Mana Leak (please, read before throwing bottles at me). A friend of mine has been testing it in Stoneblade, and it's quite good. It's way easier on the mana, and most of the time, it's a hard counter anyway. Might be worth a shot as a 2-of.

I think Snapcaster adds lots of value, but I also agree with the fact that if you're running BUG and Liliana, run some Loams.

Again, I wrote a little bit about this in the Rock thread, but when building a deck now, you have to see what decks are good and why, and use common cards from that pool. Deed right now is really good, hands down. I'm not saying Maverick can't reboot after a good Deeding, but it's plenty good. I think this deck could run at least 1 Creeping Tar Pit, and possibly run 24 lands instead of 23.

BUG has access to many tools against many of the good decks: Deed, Counterspells, removal, Perish, etc.

I'm thinking something like:

3 Pernicious Deed
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Ghastly Demise
1 Innocent Blood
2 Deathmark
1 Life from the Loam
1 Perish


4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
2 Spell Pierce


4 Snapcaster Mage


1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Wasteland
Several Fetches
Correct Dual Lands
3-4 Basic Lands
24ish total

And then 1-2 Other cards for the maindeck. Sideboard options:

Extirpate
Perish
Loam
Tarmogoyf
Spell Pierce/Flusterstorm
Hand disruption
Krosan Grip
Gilded Drake

Point being, this list could and probably is garbage, but we need to keep in mind that Maverick is super good, so why not go with that? Nothing wrong with juicing the crap out of a popular deck. I'm just brainstorming, so thoughts?

-Matt

[routlaw]

I've had some experience-not much-with this kind of BUG list and I see where Drew (disclaimer, not saying my own ideas are all that good, I am a bonafide baddie at this game) is coming from, it's just that his list lacks a bit of real world understanding about how things play out and what kind of deck characteristics a bonafide Legacy stack-based (not dedicated board control ala Nic Fit) control deck has to have.

Ancestral Visions is the poster child of variance in a deck that is very vulnerable to variance and tries for redundancy in most of its key parts (high land count, redundant countermagic and removal). AV in particular is very soft to REB and is really unimpressive after turn 3 or so. At that point you'd rather have almost any other ways to draw cards EOT (I've played Fact or Fiction in the recent past to good success) at instant speed and there's plenty of that in the format.

Maindeck discard is also really not where you want to be in this deck. Right now you can safely assume that most matchups are going to be against fair decks that are looking to play out their hands. Discard just trades one mana on your turn for one of their plays, leaving them capable of just playing out another different threat later on. The compressed curve of Legacy and the abundance of cheap answers makes grabbing things out of most fair deck's hands pretty miserable. Instead, it's better to just let them spend their mana playing out their threats, and you either answer them on the stack, kill them with undercosted removal effects, or let them build up and then nuke the world with Deed. Thoughtseize in particular is very scary, the lifeless is not negligible and this deck already has issues with anything playing Lightning Bolt. Targeted discard is something you bring in out of the board against combo to slow them down while you work towards getting to final phase of your anti combo game plan.

Personally I think the best backup (the main way to kill is always Jace unanswered) way for this deck to close out games is some kind of Intuition scheme with something like Loam and Worm Harvest. It's already a good idea to play Loam with Liliana to break the symmetry on the +1 and you're running Wastelands and manlands already, and Crucible and Deed just don't work out well together.

This also allows a compact sideboard package of Iona/Gigapede/Unburial Rites or some kind of savage turbo Raven's Crime turn against combo decks.

Hanni had a cool deck in development pre-Innistrad with Intuition as a glue card in the deck here and it's a good read for what I think the way for people who aren't comfortable playing Standstill (and I am in that camp myself) in a format with Delvers, Goblin Guides, and sixty billion green dudes running around.

[catmint]

I also thinnk Levins list might have trouble against tempo strategies, because his removal is slow, he does not have discard and is much more vulnerable to red-blast than the more common BUG control lists.

Burn (monored or U/R) will always suck for BUG. I know for sure that the wins that I get against these kind of decks all include an early goyfs and hymns.

Maindeck discard is also really not where you want to be in this deck. Right now you can safely assume that most matchups are going to be against fair decks that are looking to play out their hands. Discard just trades one mana on your turn for one of their plays, leaving them capable of just playing out another different threat later on. The compressed curve of Legacy and the abundance of cheap answers makes grabbing things out of most fair deck's hands pretty miserable. Instead, it's better to just let them spend their mana playing out their threats, and you either answer them on the stack, kill them with undercosted removal effects, or let them build up and then nuke the world with Deed. Thoughtseize in particular is very scary, the lifeless is not negligible and this deck already has issues with anything playing Lightning Bolt. Targeted discard is something you bring in out of the board against combo to slow them down while you work towards getting to final phase of your anti combo game plan.

I disagree on that. Thoughtseize/Inquistion is very powerful versus RUG and UW and also very welcome against maverick. Pointed discard and Spell pierce are there to make sure that you are able to implement the gameplan of deed/jace without beeing blown out by Choke, Pridemage (+GSZ), Krosan Grip (Sylvan Libary, KoR (Wastelands)).

Personally I think the best backup (the main way to kill is always Jace unanswered) way for this deck to close out games is some kind of Intuition scheme with something like Loam and Worm Harvest. It's already a good idea to play Loam with Liliana to break the symmetry on the +1 and you're running Wastelands and manlands already, and Crucible and Deed just don't work out well together.

This also allows a compact sideboard package of Iona/Gigapede/Unburial Rites or some kind of savage turbo Raven's Crime turn against combo decks.

Hanni had a cool deck in development pre-Innistrad with Intuition as a glue card in the deck here and it's a good read for what I think the way for people who aren't comfortable playing Standstill (and I am in that camp myself) in a format with Delvers, Goblin Guides, and sixty billion green dudes running around.

I played that deck and let me tell you it is such a grind. You really really have to be ready and well trained to run such a deck in a tournament. Playing the commmon build with hymn and goyf gives you just a lot of faster and easier wins.

[wcm8]

So the only really worthwhile suggestion being made in this article is 'hey, Deed is a really good card!*'

* except against combo. And most control decks. And most graveyard based decks. And aggro decks that are too fast and aren't piloted by idiots that go all in. And decks that run stifle

Yes Drew, we BUG players knew that Deed was a good card (mostly for SB except in a known meta), hence why just about every list is already running 2-4 in their 75.

[Koby]

I don't think that the audience for Levin's article is people who frequent The Source; but rather people who casually observe Legacy from the other formats and wish to dabble here and there with last week's T16 decks. In that sense, I don't take too much from Levin's articles because it's usually a rehash of last week's discussion points already made here on The Source.

I do appreciate the approach, and getting players to think outside the box. Yes, Deed is bonkers against Maverick - that much is obvious. The question then becomes: how do we best build a deck that wraps around Deed while still having the necessary tools to win effectively in the wide-open metagame that is Legacy?