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Thread: [Deck] Dredge

  1. #4121
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    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    You're absolutely right - fitting FOW in LED dredge requires you to warp the deck too much, but it ports nicely into manaless especially with amalgram.

  2. #4122
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    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    I've actually had some success with 3x Force in the sideboard (just picked up a fourth today). With a quad-heavy list, I don't think it stresses the deck much to yank singletons (maybe 2x LED because it clashes). I might take the deck out for a spin at the local tomorrow.

    It doesn't stop T0 Leyline, but there are a few big advantages I've noticed:
    —Hands that otherwise look like an automatic mulligan to 6 or 5 sometimes get a lot better with a Force in them, especially when a pesky Narcomoeba is there and/or where speed isn't really a big concern. (N.B.: I can't say the same about Firestorm, which I've never run and haven't been tempted to do in months.)
    —Answers any (ANY) hate-card except Extirpate or Bog.
    —Sandbagging a Force will take people by surprise. It's won me games that way.

    Not saying it's perfect, but I think it's great here.
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  3. #4123

    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    p
    4 gemstone caverns
    This looks at leat interesting.
    What is the rationale over por example lotus petal?

  4. #4124
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    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    this was something suggested by vieko, it's used in addition to lotus petal on the draw. i tend to play a 9 land + 4 petal list over the traditional 13 land list. this makes the deck a little more explosive and helps around daze, but you are in a bit of trouble if you want to cast sb cards or cabal therapy. i've had a lot of fun with this deck and have a generally positive record overall, even through decks with a lot of hate. (non leyline)

    the rational for bringing in 4 is to just outrace slower forms of hate like rest in peace and containment priest.

    i have been playing around with some sb's though in case cards like leyline and grafdiggers become popular. (hard to say as dredge and reanimator will never be tier 1)

    has anyone tried negator sb's?

    i was thinking something like

    spells (30)

    4 lion's eye diamond
    4 lotus petal
    4 faithless looting
    4 careful study
    4 bridge from below
    4 cabal therapy
    3 breakthrough
    2 dread return

    creatures (21)

    4 narcomoeba
    4 ichorid
    4 golgari-grave troll
    4 stinkweed imp
    3 golgari thug
    1 flame-kin zealot
    1 griselbrand

    lands (9)

    4 cephalid coliseum
    4 gemstone mine
    2 mana confluence

    -------
    this list being what i normally play for the maindeck, although i usually run +1 thug, -1 griselbrand. -1 mana confluence + 1 breakthrough. -1 ichorid +1 firestorm. (trying this list out though as i saw the list that went 5-0 twice on mtggoldfish has 4 ichorid and a griselbrand, so i'm willing try that.)

    i normally run a pretty safe sideboard (see my prior posts) but have been considering some transformative sideboards for fun. has anyone tried this approach?


    sb (15)

    4 unmask
    4 dark ritual
    4 phyrexian negator
    3 gemstone caverns

    sb cuts:
    4 lion's eye diamond
    2 faithless looting
    3 breakthrough
    2 dread return
    1 golgari-grave troll
    1 ichorid
    1 flame-kin zealot
    1 griselbrand

    would you sb differently? (let's just play along and go with the negator plan)

    i also had another version that was for fun with this sb, although it works a lot better because it already has 4 lotus petals in the maindeck.


    4 doomsday
    4 dark ritual
    4 infernal tutor
    1 shelldock isle
    1 emrakul
    1 unmask/chrome mox

    -rob
    -rob

  5. #4125
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    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    Dredge finished 52nd at Grand Prix Chiba: http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...sts-2016-11-27

    Some interesting choices - particularly the 2 main deck DR targets, and much of the SB. Undiscovered Paradise, Noxious Revival, and Pithing Needle.

    Represent!

  6. #4126

    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    Hey all,
    been playing LED-Dredge quite irregularly for half a year now (still new to legacy) and usually with quite a generic list including 2 main DR+1 FKZ since it always felt the safest route for me. After this list from KMC-JPN really raised my interest http://mtgpulse.com/event/26371#347776 I've been trying it and now struggle to understand its purpose.

    What would be the other reasons to play Flayer of the Hatebound than for example Ensnaring Bridge? It seems to be a bit slower than FKZ and possibly still needs another DR (of which the deck only has two). The list also has only 3 City of Brasses and one Undiscovered Paradise SB. What would be the reason to play Undisc. since I've understood that it was usually most beneficial to the lists that used Bloodghasts. Apparently Petals are to increase speed and evade Wastelands, but if you want speed for example against ANT or Burn, wouldn't FKZ be more reliable? Also wouldn't only 2 Golgari Thugs lower your consistency too much?

    Greater Gargadon? Quite an unique choice. This seems to be intended to be suspended, since it's only one red mana and sometimes DR:ed against some decks probably, but when would you guys think the ability would be relevant? Against point-removal control decks?
    I haven't tried Griselbrand myself, since I haven't really figured out when would I want it actually. I see the Griz in many lists and have read some comments that it's a win-more but are there any decks that we would want it against more than the other DR-targets?

    Is this list inconsistent or cleverly meta-tweaked? What could be the secret of getting eighth in the tournament? Answers most appreciated! Still trying to learn the intricacies behind different Dredge builds and sideboardings. :)

  7. #4127
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    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Plaek View Post
    Hey all,
    been playing LED-Dredge quite irregularly for half a year now (still new to legacy) and usually with quite a generic list including 2 main DR+1 FKZ since it always felt the safest route for me. After this list from KMC-JPN really raised my interest http://mtgpulse.com/event/26371#347776 I've been trying it and now struggle to understand its purpose. . . . Is this list inconsistent or cleverly meta-tweaked? What could be the secret of getting eighth in the tournament? Answers most appreciated! Still trying to learn the intricacies behind different Dredge builds and sideboardings. :)
    Hey, Plaek!

    Seems to me the main reason behind using Flayer is that you can shoot someone past Bridge/Blazing Archon, but I think there are other reasons, like that you can use it to avoid losing Bridges to combat on a clogged board. I don't think Flayer is that great (to KO, we need at least two—probably more—Dread Returns to pull it off with any consistency), but I think it might be a metagame call. Essential in Manaless, but not so great in this deck.

    I think Gargadon is there to allow for instant-speed token generation, especially in the face of a number of problematic (though perhaps fringey) decks that can afford to throw away creatures to knock out Bridges. I guess it also makes it possible to get something more out of Ichorids if Bridges either get nuked or aren't forthcoming, though I don't know that it's worth it. Also makes a good last-ditch Dread Return target if the 'yard has been thoroughly burned out.

    Feels like a build that leans rather strongly on Bridge, but maybe I'm wrong. I don't really understand the other choices you mentioned (Undiscovered Paradise to hedge against Back to Basics? No idea); only two Thugs seems really suboptimal, and I can't make sense of the land setup (or THREE PImps) [EDIT: The low land-count makes sense with the included Petals; I'm talking about the specific choices of which lands/how many of each kind]. Anyone with more play experience have any input on this one?

    Regarding the player's getting eighth, all I can say is that oftentimes something unorthodox doesn't have to be great; it just has to take people by surprise and/or put them off balance. I've seen weird brews beat pretty good players just because they came out of nowhere.

    Personally, I've come around to playing an FKZ-less mainboard with only one Dread Return for consistency's sake; more on that in a sec.

    Went 2-1 today with my first Dredging at the local in several months. Had some hideous draws and dredges (lost to D&T because I just couldn't find anything in the top two-thirds of my deck), but got some interesting information out of the experience. My first opponent was the store's proprietor, who jumped in with Modern Dredge just because we couldn't make an even number, and he really dumped on me in game 1 by opening with Insolent Neonate to junk two Bridges. It's pretty fringey, but if you know a whole load of Dredge players in your meta, it seems like a possible sideboard card for a mirror-match.

    Funnily enough, a friend had borrowed my deck a few days ago and hadn't unboarded it, so I was rolling in with double-Dread Return and FKZ in the maindeck. I had terrible problems with consistency all day. Ever since I'd switched over to 2x PAm, 1x Dread and G-Brand, I'd felt like things were going much more smoothly. I'd hoped to take that build out for its trial by fire today, and I'm feeling like today's tournament was a rather unscientific lesson in why I'd prefer that build to the all-in Zealot strategy.

    I got to test quad-Force for the first time at a tournament. I liked it, and rather wish I'd used it more than I did. It won me a game against Shardless in which I kept a terrible hand. DDD'd a Troll on my first turn, Forced his Extraction, then just goldfished for the win.
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  8. #4128
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    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    I like Flayer over FKZ these days because FKZ relies on a lethal zombie army to win via multiple bridges and 3 nontoken creatures while flayer can pull off a win with 2 bridges, a therapy, and 2 nontoken creatures (or 1 bridge and 3 nontoken creatures). Flayer provides another angle of attack in cases when generating a lethal zombie army isn't enough to win the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpikeyMikey View Post
    We play an Eternal format. Any threat, unanswered, will be your ass in short order.

  9. #4129
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    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by SHABOOGS View Post
    I like Flayer over FKZ these days because FKZ relies on a lethal zombie army to win via multiple bridges and 3 nontoken creatures while flayer can pull off a win with 2 bridges, a therapy, and 2 nontoken creatures (or 1 bridge and 3 nontoken creatures). Flayer provides another angle of attack in cases when generating a lethal zombie army isn't enough to win the game.
    Yeah, that's a good point. I actually ran Flayer in my sideboard for a while in order to get around Ensnaring Bridge, etc. I've just been running light on Dread Return lately and had to deal with Eldrazi, so I rotated it out for Blazing Archon.

    How many Ichorids/PAms are you running? I've found quad-Ichorid, double-PAm to reduce my reliance on Bridge from Below quite a bit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    Just in time for Valentines Day 💝

    Roses are red, violets are blue
    Omae wa mou shindeiru
    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Quick question, are you also still waiting for the great pumpkin it did you finally pick it in once December hit?
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.

  10. #4130
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    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    I only run 4 narcos and 3 ichorids in my list. The downside of Flayer is that you need 3 DR to have a better chance of pulling off the kill with Flayer+GGT.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpikeyMikey View Post
    We play an Eternal format. Any threat, unanswered, will be your ass in short order.

  11. #4131

    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    I went 5-0 at FNM last week with the following list. Matchups were:

    2-0 UR delver, t1 g1 ashen'd his first land
    2-0 Burn, g2 he conceded to me dredging iona and looking him straight in the eye
    2-0 Esper Blade i think?
    2-1 BR Reanimator, lost g2 to leyline
    2-0 Sneak & Show, Ashen Rider stole both games imo


    4 Cephalid Coliseum
    4 Gemstone Mine
    2 City of Brass (this would be 1 and 4 confluence but I only own 3 confluence)
    3 Mana Confluence

    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Breakthrough
    4 Faithless Looting
    1 Careful Study
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Bridge From Below
    1 Dread Return

    4 Putrid Imp
    4 Ichorid
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Golgari Thug
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    1 Ashen Rider

    Sideboard
    3 Lotus Petal
    3 Faerie Macabre
    3 Firestorm
    1 Ashen Rider
    1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1 Dread Return
    2 Prized Almagam

    Haven't played magic since the last time I played dredge to a day 2 at SCG STL over a year ago, and this was my first time using Prized Almagam at all, as well as not running any reactive answer cards to stuff like Leyline/Cage/RiP/Wheelofsunandmoon/Crypt/Relic/Everyhatecardever/etc. I only brought Almagam in for g2 & g3 vs reanimator to help nullify his Reanimates, taking out Rider and Return, and vs Blade to diversify threats in case of Surgical Extraction. The reanimator pilot told me afterwards he took his Exhumes out after his experience with Ashen Rider g1, so the board plan apparently worked better than I was hoping. As for the Blade match, I had enough therapies g2 that I'm not sure my sideboard mattered. Anyway, even after winning the event and feeling very happy about getting 12 packs for $5 entry, I'm not sure I would play this deck at a large event like Louisville. Especially with as many Chalice@1 that are expected to be there. Like I said, I haven't played in over a year, Dredge is the only deck/cards I own anymore. It's not like the players there are expecting me to be there week after week, so they might have diminished their grave hate to 4 cards or so at the most, then this week it might be 6-7, taking out the stuff they didn't need vs the players that weren't a threat. That's how meta games work.

    I hate this deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    The fairly obvious flaw in your reasoning is that Dark Ritual and Wild Cantor do produce mana. Pretending they don't won't change the function of the cards.

  12. #4132

    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    I get it, as I have cursed this deck many times myself. Don't get me wrong though; dredge will always have a place in my heart as its a deck that fits my personality. The key to being successful with Dredge is not letting your meta be prepared week after week for it. Having multiple decks will keep your meta always guessing. Obviously being a competent pilot is necessary but one our greatest weapons is surprise, we are the REAL boogeyman of the format.

  13. #4133
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    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by laststepdown View Post
    It's not like the players there are expecting me to be there week after week, so they might have diminished their grave hate to 4 cards or so at the most, then this week it might be 6-7, taking out the stuff they didn't need vs the players that weren't a threat. That's how meta games work.
    It's worth pointing out that a number of decks don't really benefit from having graveyard hate anyway, though I don't think you faced any of those in that field.
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    Just in time for Valentines Day 💝

    Roses are red, violets are blue
    Omae wa mou shindeiru
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    Quick question, are you also still waiting for the great pumpkin it did you finally pick it in once December hit?
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.

  14. #4134

    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by laststepdown View Post
    I went 5-0 at FNM last week with the following list. Matchups were:

    2-0 UR delver, t1 g1 ashen'd his first land
    2-0 Burn, g2 he conceded to me dredging iona and looking him straight in the eye
    2-0 Esper Blade i think?
    2-1 BR Reanimator, lost g2 to leyline
    2-0 Sneak & Show, Ashen Rider stole both games imo


    4 Cephalid Coliseum
    4 Gemstone Mine
    2 City of Brass (this would be 1 and 4 confluence but I only own 3 confluence)
    3 Mana Confluence

    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Breakthrough
    4 Faithless Looting
    1 Careful Study
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Bridge From Below
    1 Dread Return

    4 Putrid Imp
    4 Ichorid
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Golgari Thug
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    1 Ashen Rider

    Sideboard
    3 Lotus Petal
    3 Faerie Macabre
    3 Firestorm
    1 Ashen Rider
    1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1 Dread Return
    2 Prized Almagam

    Haven't played magic since the last time I played dredge to a day 2 at SCG STL over a year ago, and this was my first time using Prized Almagam at all, as well as not running any reactive answer cards to stuff like Leyline/Cage/RiP/Wheelofsunandmoon/Crypt/Relic/Everyhatecardever/etc. I only brought Almagam in for g2 & g3 vs reanimator to help nullify his Reanimates, taking out Rider and Return, and vs Blade to diversify threats in case of Surgical Extraction. The reanimator pilot told me afterwards he took his Exhumes out after his experience with Ashen Rider g1, so the board plan apparently worked better than I was hoping. As for the Blade match, I had enough therapies g2 that I'm not sure my sideboard mattered. Anyway, even after winning the event and feeling very happy about getting 12 packs for $5 entry, I'm not sure I would play this deck at a large event like Louisville. Especially with as many Chalice@1 that are expected to be there. Like I said, I haven't played in over a year, Dredge is the only deck/cards I own anymore. It's not like the players there are expecting me to be there week after week, so they might have diminished their grave hate to 4 cards or so at the most, then this week it might be 6-7, taking out the stuff they didn't need vs the players that weren't a threat. That's how meta games work.

    I hate this deck.
    This is incredible. I havent seen a "Core list" like this in a couple of years. 4 ichorid + 4 therapy, nice. I thought i would never see it again.

    Congrats. The old school deck still works...

    I would include some anti-permanent hate...i recommned it. But your list looks fine.

    1 more thing...how do you nullify reanimates with amalgalm?

  15. #4135

    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenCid View Post
    This is incredible. I havent seen a "Core list" like this in a couple of years. 4 ichorid + 4 therapy, nice. I thought i would never see it again.

    Congrats. The old school deck still works...

    I would include some anti-permanent hate...i recommned it. But your list looks fine.

    1 more thing...how do you nullify reanimates with amalgalm?
    Putrid Imp for life. More resilient, more ichorids, more therapy targets.

    The best target they can get vs me with reanimate is gone by boarding almagam in and boarding out the ashen rider and return. Make sense? Last thing you want them to do is take your Ashen Rider. You could take any card out besides the Dread Return and get the same result, but it's easier mentally to just remove the whole package.

    Anti hate is a crutch in my humble opinion after piloting the archetype for the past decade. Read my good friend Richard Feldman's article for more insight on the debate. I'd consider Ancient Grudge or Nature's Claim though if it was really becoming an issue.

    I've considered Petals main, I've run them before (2008-ish?) but it really makes the deck more loose to chalice.
    Sorry for my short script, I'm terrible at posting on forums with my phone.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    The fairly obvious flaw in your reasoning is that Dark Ritual and Wild Cantor do produce mana. Pretending they don't won't change the function of the cards.

  16. #4136

    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by laststepdown View Post
    Putrid Imp for life. More resilient, more ichorids, more therapy targets.

    The best target they can get vs me with reanimate is gone by boarding almagam in and boarding out the ashen rider and return. Make sense? Last thing you want them to do is take your Ashen Rider. You could take any card out besides the Dread Return and get the same result, but it's easier mentally to just remove the whole package.

    Anti hate is a crutch in my humble opinion after piloting the archetype for the past decade. Read my good friend Richard Feldman's article for more insight on the debate. I'd consider Ancient Grudge or Nature's Claim though if it was really becoming an issue.

    I've considered Petals main, I've run them before (2008-ish?) but it really makes the deck more loose to chalice.
    Sorry for my short script, I'm terrible at posting on forums with my phone.
    4 pimp
    4 ichorid
    4 therapy

    was a "must" for me in that time. Maybe they deserve a new call.

    Indeed i never runned petals for speed the deck was pretty good with led, BT and Study. I always wanted permanent anti hate caRDS. Once upon a time was chain of vapor and pithing needle. Now nature's claim and/or grudge are good calls. For those match like combo unmask always did the thing.

  17. #4137
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    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by laststepdown View Post
    1 Careful Study . . . 4 Putrid Imp
    That's an interesting setup. Why so few Careful Studies? Also wondering why a full quad of Imp, as I've not been running Imps for a while. Felt like it helped consistency a bit when I got it, but it reduced explosivity substantially. Interested to hear what you think!
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    PM me if you want to contribute!
    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    Just in time for Valentines Day 💝

    Roses are red, violets are blue
    Omae wa mou shindeiru
    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Quick question, are you also still waiting for the great pumpkin it did you finally pick it in once December hit?
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I am tired of malicious top 8s and it is time to put an end to the practice.

  18. #4138

    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce View Post
    That's an interesting setup. Why so few Careful Studies? Also wondering why a full quad of Imp, as I've not been running Imps for a while. Felt like it helped consistency a bit when I got it, but it reduced explosivity substantially. Interested to hear what you think!
    I think I really answered this just a few posts above. Careful Study doesn't exile to Ichorid, and is much less resilient against hate. Imp gives you that naturally. Maybe I've had one too many Careful Studies get Spell Pierced in my day, but I've never been unhappy about dredging more Ichorid food. However, I actually have lost the game to starving Ichorids. Sure, it's less explosive than Study by a small margin. I'm just from a time where 4 Study/4 Breakthrough/2 Deep Analysis was what we had, and we ran 4 Imp and we fed our children. I'm doing this to feed the starving kids. Hell, there was a time when people ran Tireless Tribe. Have you ever tried to eat a white card? Don't do it. Take Ichorid's word for it. They taste terrible. The deck has been around a LONG time, and I've played enough versions to know what I'm personally comfortable with for my discard enablers. I choose Putrid Imp like you may choose a favorite Pokemon of the first 3 when you started the video game. The synergy is enough for me. I've got starving horrors. Putrid Imp is delicious. Careful Study has historically been very hit or miss. Breakthrough is the most powerful choice for an enabler obviously, that and Faithless Looting are auto 4x, but I don't feel Careful Study has been necessary in this deck ever since the printing of Looting, really. Optional, yes. Required? No.

    The last time I touched this deck I was playing 2-3 Street Wraith to counter Deathrite Shaman (while still feeding), with the 3rd slot being a miser (do you kids still say that? sorry) Ashen Rider vs all the Omni/Sneak/Exhumes in my area. With less Deathrites around, I pulled the Wraiths out and looked at putting more land in so I could cast stuff a bit more reliably, no longer just folding to turn 1 Wasteland half the time. I wanted to keep the Rider main because it's an excellent removal spell with the Dread Return (sometimes it's just an optional subpar bridge activation), and it's as much Ichorid food as a Street Wraith. The least Ichorids I've ever ran main was 3, and I hated it. You want these cute lil fellas in play all the time, doing work. I'm not saying it's end-all, and you should put 1 Ashen Rider 1 Dread Return in your list no matter what, rather quite the opposite-if you like Careful Study, you could easily run up to 4, and you should run what you're comfortable with. The list I'm running just did the job at my local store, at one event, right? And you should adjust to what you're planning to do, be it local, online, or a large event. The Rider/Return is sort of a package. The core of the deck is just fine without either card. It is your decision whether you need it or not, and you can choose appropriately when you need to.

    The x1 slot really could have been utility, like a Darkblast, or another Dread Return or something for a player that doesn't like Study. It is probably better as a Firestorm right now on a competitive level. When it comes down to it, the flex slots (imo of course based on the local meta) were the 'playset' of a) the 13th land, b) the Careful study, c) Dread Return d) Ashen Rider. If I was going to play Almagam x2 or x3 in main, I'd cut the Rider first, the Return, and then I would cut 1 Study before I cut the extra land or something as reliable as Putrid Imp or as powerful as Breakthrough or Faithless Looting.

    I think the real questions should be pointed at the sideboard. I do think that including something more proactive like Unmask or Thoughtseize (even more something reactive like Nature's Claim, some Ingot Chewer/Wispmare combination, or Wear/Tear) would be better at a larger tournament than a 4 to 5 round FNM or weekly LGS event. I know my local meta enough to know (over two decades of experience with the game) when I can afford to run a fearless sideboard. Sideboards are usually full of interesting stuff to catch the opponent off guard. There isn't always a definite 15. The proper sideboard for an event or metagame can change by the hour. I had Aura Thief in my board at one point (in like 06 or 07?) since our Enchantress matchup is so bad. Return it, sac it to Therapy or another Return, cast Control Magic on their side of the table. It wasn't *good* by any means, but I was playing to one of my only outs. Depending on how en masse Eldrazi & Death and Taxes are going to be at Louisville, I wouldn't even play this deck. Most Eldrazi players will blind Chalice @1 no matter what, so if any of you have some insight on this matchup, I would love to hear it. I haven't had the time to test it, and like I said, I've been mostly away from the game for a number of years, but the format looks pretty bad to swim in right now for this deck.

    Sorry for getting off topic, I hope this answers your inquiry a little more aptly along with my previous post. When you reap all the benefits enough times with Putrid Imp, you really miss him when he's not there. You're never going to sacrifice Careful Study to Therapy for your opponent's win condition. You're never going to be forced to discard your answer, be it a Macabre or Abrupt Decay or whatnot, by Putrid Imp. Putrid Imp wouldn't do that to you. Sometimes, on rare occasions, Putrid Imp will even go into combat for you-that's something Careful Study will only ever dream of. And after he's discarded all the stuff you wanted him to, went into battle for you, and died for you, he feeds your recurring horrors with his rotted corpse. Careful Study can be explosive, sure! It can also be a wet firework. Careful Study will never bait a Swords to Plowshares from the scared opponent. Careful Study wouldn't take that one for the team. That's not quality that I want to blindly rely on. When buffalo start rampaging towards your car on the way home from a tournament, Careful Study can't provide you with the insurance backup to get you the coverage you need. Putrid Imp cares about you and your deck, and Putrid Imp is here to help. Putrid Imp is the low cost coverage you can count on, and the quality you deserve. Like a good neighbor, Putrid Imp is there.
    Last edited by laststepdown; 12-13-2016 at 01:35 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    The fairly obvious flaw in your reasoning is that Dark Ritual and Wild Cantor do produce mana. Pretending they don't won't change the function of the cards.

  19. #4139
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    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    @laststepdown.

    If your opener has 1 land, Putrid Imp, Careful Study, Dredger, dredger, and idk Bridge, Ichorid what would you cast on turn 1? The Imp or the Draw spell?
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  20. #4140

    Re: [Deck] Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Que View Post
    @laststepdown.

    If your opener has 1 land, Putrid Imp, Careful Study, Dredger, dredger, and idk Bridge, Ichorid what would you cast on turn 1? The Imp or the Draw spell?
    This feels like a trick question. There's too many variables. Am I on the play or draw? On the play g1 t1 vs an unknown opponent (which is what I'm assuming you're asking) I'll cast Putrid Imp. On the draw, it depends what you drew as much as what you saw from the opponent. Say you draw (best case scenario) LED. You can go all in vs t1 Forest -> Elf card (i.e. cast the Careful Study+hold priority LED), or Mountain -> Goblin Guide, and should-you're running a race at this point and need to start sprinting. On the draw vs say, an uncracked Flooded Strand, you could be setting yourself up for disaster just trying to resolve your first Study and should adjust your plays appropriately. What if this opponent is Miracles? Imp could possibly do 6-10 points of damage unanswered, dual functioning as your discard outlet while they look for interaction. What if they're on Storm, and you didn't topdeck the LED (we're not all perfect)? Careful Study without LED t1 (dredge 4-6 t2) is never going to be as explosive as Imp t1 into Study t2 (dredge anywhere from 12-18). It's not like Careful Study has flashback. So, usually Putrid Imp.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    The fairly obvious flaw in your reasoning is that Dark Ritual and Wild Cantor do produce mana. Pretending they don't won't change the function of the cards.

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