Well we were crushed all night. xD 4 Matches total
We had to play against the same BUG Delver guy twice in which he scooped Turn 1 both game 1s. But he had enough disruption to stop us all other games in the form of counterspells, DRS, and wasteland with Surgicals. Mulligans to 5 and 4s did not help throughout the night either. Then we had to play against some BUG lands deck? I've never even seen such a thing, but he was able to disrupt our combo with FOW and then blow us out with Crop rotation? 2nd game he drew 3 crop rotations... Last game against Miracles. I directed an incorrect sideboard plan as I prepped for RIP and instead faced Surgical Snap Caster surgical. I do believe GP Louisville had something to do with the amount of Surgicals we saw tonight.
All in all I think it was a great experience streaming with Erin, And I would definitely run it back. Some tighter play, better draws, and less tanking on my part (trying to interact with the chat was an experience) would have served us well. Sorry if I was being dismissive to the chat at times. Part of why I wanted to stream alongside Erin was to give my input, but I think I was overthinking it and reading what lines the chat wanted to take. xD
Thanks for anyone that stopped by. I might go back and watch the vod too to offer notes on the matches.
Peace
https://www.twitch.tv/originaloestrus/v/115513444
Bug crushes. I've been told that MODO is a bad place to test dredge because all the yard hate is extremely cheap.
Hey guys, long time lurker, been playing dredge on and off for about 3 years now and am looking to dive into it again. Unfortunately, i no longer have LEDs and won't be able to afford them in the near future, so my primary question is should i just stick to Manaless or can an LED-less version work? Hand disruption is a lot more common now between Grixis Delver being the popular flavor of delver, BR Reanimator, and BG Depths. I played at GP Lousiville and just got completely wrecked so I've been thinking about trying out a "budget" mana-version. For the record, I'm currently on the Blue version with mainboard FoW and whirlpool riders but will more than likely switch over to the all-in Balustrade Spy list if the budget list can't compete. Any thoughts are much appreciated!
Ouch! Sorry to hear it, man.
Don't despair, though; from your report, it sounds like at least one of those people was determined not to lose to Dredge if they were hitting Surgicals that consistently (you got to play him/her twice!), and the metagame seems saturated with sideboard grave-hate for Reanimator right now.
Out of curiosity, do you think Force of Will would've helped in the matches you played? From my limited experience, Forcing a Surgical feels good, man.
Hey, YungPyr0!
LEDs are ideal, but I don't see any reason you couldn't run without them. More often than not LED doesn't make an appearance. And often, when it does, it's gumming up dredges because it doesn't do anything if we don't have it in hand. It's exceedingly powerful (especially here and in Storm), but it's not without flaws.
You're going to be running a lot less explosively, and you won't be able to capitalize on Faithless Looting, so I think if you want to try dredging without the Diamonds, you'll need to find a way to get more out of your dredges or to make your dredges more consistent. You might try running extra recursive creatures, cantrips, or discard outlets (e.g., Nether Shadow, Bloodghast, PAm, Street Wraith, PImp, or Firestorm), or maybe you could try maindeck disruption like Unmask.
Anybody else have ideas? I've never had the stones to try eschewing LED.
All Spells Primer under construction: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e...Tl7utWpLo0/pub
PM me if you want to contribute!
Cutting LED is really, and I mean REALLY counterproductive from a competitive standpoint. You would basically be playing a modern deck. It's effectively the same as removing the ammunition from a gun and expecting it to still shoot. Like dropping food crates on an enemy country instead of bombs. I don't recommend it.
Don't get me wrong: I don't think it's a good idea to run without it unless a) you don't have the cards, or b) you're 'boarding in Force of Will (even then, I don't think it's good to cut all of them). I was just saying that, if one were to build LED-less, the priority is to find a way to get better dredges because without LED you won't be getting god-hands that just blow through the deck on T1–2.
In answer to the original question, I guess I'd err on the side of playing manaless if you don't have Diamonds, though I can't say I'd recommend manaless either outside of very specific metagames.
All Spells Primer under construction: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e...Tl7utWpLo0/pub
PM me if you want to contribute!
I've been testing the Serenity plan by Parcher as an answer to chalice and multiple leylines and I have been happy with the results. Might just drop the other anti hate and free up some sideboard slots by running a full playset of Serenity as an answer to artifact/enchantment based graveyard hate but I want to jam in more games with it first just to be sure.
I've had them in and out for years, they're top tier. Some of the best plays with Wear//Tear were hitting Aether Vial & Rest in Peace at the same time vs Death & Taxes. The downside to Wear//Tear vs Serenity is that you pay 3 and only hit 2 things, when Serenity clears everything. This doesn't seem like a big swinger in Serenity's favor on paper, but Parcher is correct-it does something no other card can do for us. The upsides with Wear//Tear are great and I'm a huge advocate for it: you can sandbag it in your hand, it can't be Abrupt Decayed on the vital turn, can be cast for 1 if you just need to kill a Leyline effect, and you can 2 for 1 on a good day. All that said, both are proven better options than Nature's Claim and I'm glad the community as a whole is finally taking notice, even if it is 4 years late. If you're seeing a lot of Enchantress (which by the way was an actual abysmal unwinnable matchup in 2012-I was cursed by Brandon Large "what's your worst matchup? enchantress? that's what you're playing after your byes." at the legacy GP that year while we were getting lunch during our 2 byes. I panic and find an Aura Thief at a dealer table. Write it into my sideboard. Sit across from my round 3 opponent, what are the odds...he's Enchantress and he slaughters me. Miss that day 2 by 1 match loss. Looking back, I should have just brought Serenity instead of Wispmare.) then definitely pack 4 Serenity.
This actually reminded me I only own 3 Serenity. Good work team!
Edit: I was thinking about using a 1 of Sun Titan again in the main just for the lols while I was in the shower today, somewhere my brain was thinking about Thug recursions in modern and how Macabre/Wispmare/Ingot Chewer is a good package and whether or not Bojuka Bog/Loam was better than Thug/Macabre since you can kill the Thug when you want with Darkblast or Conflagrate-DIFFERENT FORMAT I KNOW-but back in 2012 we used Sun Titan to get back anything from LED or Cephalid Coliseum to put the entire deck in the graveyard, recur Therapy fodder or blockers, and we could cast Gnaw to the Bone out of sideboard vs burn and storm. Sun Titan would also be able to recur Serenity. The downside vs most Dread Return options is that it doesn't remove to Ichorid. Idle thought, sorry.
I got 25th at 2013 GPDC with 4 Wear/Tear. Caleb Neufeld copied the list and topped SCG Jersey a couple of months later. Sooo.....yeah.
2012 GP Atlanta. Only went 11-4, that was GP Reanimator. Beat 2 Enchantress players on day one alone. One being Melissa De Tora. Without Wear/Tear, or Serenity. Sooo.....yeah.
Was 2012 a reanimator year? I came back to magic that year after a small break from 2009-2011 and had no metagame analysis when I entered the tournament beyond scouting grinders on Friday night. I'm pretty sure I was working at a LGS at the time of Atlanta, and couldn't get the time off to make the 16 hour drive. I forgot we used to get more than 1 legacy GP a year...heartbreaking. Every enchantress player in the world vs me still today gets a natural t1 ramp+Elephant Grass, t2 SoCo or whatever they need. This guy in particular was running maindeck Ground Seal too, so I couldn't even Dread Return. I'm not even joking, it was the most humiliating game of magic for me of all time-oh you're on dredge? Here, let me E tutor for every card you can't win against. I need 8 Serenity to win that matchup personally. This was before RtR and RiP too, you know. I still remember an Esper Stoneblade player having maindeck Surgical+Snap in his opener (turns out he knew a friend of mine and found out I was on dredge so kept accordingly) and a Merfolk player having maindeck Relic of Progenitus at that tournament too. I ended at x-3, just short of day 2.
Hi all,
Just some notes from my last couple of tournaments.
I played in a 43 man credit tournament so it was 6 rounds. I went 4-2 and with some good breakers ended up in 8th. We all split the credit and called it a day. I don't remember much details about this tournament, but the decklist was the same as the one Erin played on her stream.
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=21778&iddeck=167485
Most recent played a Legacy Staples tournament with Volcanic as the top Prize. It was 6 rounds and I went 4-0, Id, Id into top 8.
My matchups:
Round 1: Lowell H. with Elves
1-0
Round 2: John H. with Elves
2-0
Round 3: Christopher G. with Manaless Dredge
3-0
Round 4: Travis B. with B/R Reanimator
4-0
Round 5: ID
Round 6: ID
Top 8
Quarterfinals: Greg Borish with Aggro Loam
You can watch the Quarterfinals on twitch here:https://www.twitch.tv/videos/118069223
The match starts around 5:07, Also I apologize in advance for the amount of shuffling that happens lol skip ahead appropriately xD
Semi Finals: Patrick with Lands (off stream)
Game 1 notes: I had a zombie, 2 Amalgams, and an LED in play and no lands after an early setup. Patrick draws a crop rotation on his turn and grabs a Tabernacle. He didn't want to grab a Bojuka Bog as I already had 8 power on the board and he had nothing really going. On my turn I crack my LED to keep my 3 creatures around. I crash in for 8 putting Patrick down to 12. Patrick plays some land don't remember. On my turn I stack the tabernacle trigger and return an Ichorid back from my graveyard even though I lose the 2 Amalgams and the zombie. At this point I also have 3 Bridge from Below, but tabernacle is making them somewhat irrelevant since i can't pay to keep the zombies around anymore. On my turn I dredge into a Narcomoeba and Cabal Therapy. I cabal therapy'd myself to generate 3 zombies. I Dread Returned another Ichorid to crash in for 6 putting Patrick down to 6. Next turn I stacked the triggers again and brought both Ichorid back to finish the game.
Game 2: Patrick made a turn 3 20/20 and killed me swiftly.
Game 3: Patrick has an early tabernacle, but I'm able to combo and Dread Return into the Ashen Rider I boarded in to Exile the pesky land. Ashen Rider plus Ichorid and zombies finish the game and the match for me.
Finals on stream: Same link match starts around 6:54
Decklist is the same as the one I posted above, however, I replaced the Putrid Imps and favored Street Wraiths again. After seeing the amount of Surgical that was being played it felt absolutely right. That and the fact that BUG decks are starting to rise.
I'll edit the post later to fill in anymore details about the swiss matchups tomorrow. gnight. :)
Que, did you replace all the Putrid Imps with Wraiths or just some?
Against which matchups would you side in Ashen Rider other than Sneak and Show and is there a matchup you would absolutely need the two Ashen Riders rather than 1 Rider and 1 fast-attacker (Flayer or Flame-Kin) in the sideboard?
And when do Unmasks come in? Against counter-heavy matchups?
Yo Plaek. I did in fact replace all the Putrid Imp with Street Wraiths for the tournament reason being more BUG and Surgical and Chalice. Plus the extra Dredges are always welcome.
Other than boarding them in against Sneak & Show Ashen Rider is a catch all answer to any troublesome permanent. My matchup against lands is a perfect example as the Ashen Rider allows me to beat cards like Tabernacle, Glacial Chasm, etc. I've brought it in against decks that play Ensnaring Bridge or other types of soft lock permanents. I had two because my current meta sees a lot of Sneak & Show and I consider that a volatile matchup which I wanted to shore up. You can alternatively pick something else like Elesh Norn or open up that slot for something else. I don't bring it in against "Fair" decks though as the dread return package is not the primary plan. If you've seen my lists I don't play any dedicated DR targets. In my experience they're not needed, but its preference. If I did run any one target it would probably be flame kin for the sheer fact that you don't need anything else to make him work other than reanimating it. I guess Griselbrand would be a close 2nd.
The Unmasks I haven't used too often and I've only recently added them. They're mainly there to take hate pieces from DnT and presumably strip a Surgical before you commit anything to the graveyard against the Delver decks. I still have to do more testing with it. Originally I thought I would bring it in against other combo decks to break their combo, but I don't like that plan now and I'm sticking to being faster by bringing in lotus petals and just combing them harder. It usually works out.
@PotatoDavid. Thanks bro! :D
Congrats on another win, Que! Can you share your sideboard plan against Lands? Is it just Ashen Rider? Sad to say that I haven't won an official match against it.
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