You have access to all the best combo hate post board and between ten and twelve discard effets preboard just lacking forces so as good as you want it to be honestly
Despite having a lot of discard and sideboard options like Canonist etc. the deck doesn't have a really strong combo matchup. If they're slower combo decks (ANT, High Tide, Doomsday and Show n Tell variants g1) you might have a chance and steal some games. Against fast combo.. get lucky or die.
Postboard.. well normally you can bring a lot of cards since so many of your maindeck is useless..
Fastcombo still owns you if you're not getting lucky. (+ TES has Silence to basicly timewalk you since all your disruption is sorcery speed (out of maybe 1-2 MBT)).
Show n Tell variants bring in Leyline, thus turning of up to 12 cards of your disruption suite.. then they laugh maniacly.
You still have a shot versus the slower ones..
But even if, lets say you're lucky to get to t4 against something like ANT. You probably played discard t1-t3 thus having no clock at all (mabye 1 Sculler) while they're playing their LED's out and have a graveyard full of rituals.. 1 Tutor/PIF and you're still dead. Despite all your afford.
So yeah..you can steal some games.. but to much has to work right to say it has a good combo matchup.
I disagree, sure against Fast Combo (Belcher, Tin Fins, Ups all Spells, or even TES) you rarely get a 1st turn to cast a Discard Spell (because we canīt trust in the fear effect from force of will). But if a deck full with discard and a fast clock (if you want compare a single delver/goose to crawler, ghast action) and additional combo hate in sideboards (white for thalia, canonist, oring, leyline) isn't good enough against combo then something must be wrong. If the discussion goes in the direction that you need FoW against Fast Combo (Turn 1 Combo Decks) if you canīt start (if you have a turn, you can also start with Discard), then each blue player can remind enough situations were they havenīt a FoW in starting hand and also lose.Originally Posted by Holly
I think this deck is good enough prepared to fight combo decks. Sometimes the opponent has the nuts and you still lose, but this is also true with every blue based deck and a common Situation in Magic - sometimes Luck matters.
@LED vs Discard, sure most players lay out artefacts against our Discard based Disruption, but i would always put in some artefact hate (engineered explosives etc.) to catch off guarded TES/ANT Players.
@Rotting Rats vs Tidehollow Sculler, against Combo Rats arenīt so bad, because you always wanīt to start with 1st aimed discard (catch the best card), if your 2nd turn is Sculler or Rat you can one more card (have a combo players bad cards to discard g2?, i dont think so). The nice exile trick with sculler only works if you have an discard outlet before you can play the sculler, so you need a turn 1 carrion feeder (and havenīt cast a protective discard spell) or talking about a turn 3 play (which isnt so fast against combo), besides the situation T1 Deathrite (no discard) and 3 mana for a T2 play (more and more dreamland).
Exile a card with sculler against combo Game 2 isn't so good if you canīt sac the sculler (see above). Every Combo player will have sweepers (pyroclasm, massacre) or point removal (decay, chain) so it is easy to kill an early sculler. So i don't think Sculler is the best way for a disruptive creature. Rats are good enough in many ways against combo. T1 Therapy, T2 Rat and sac to Therapy can destroy many hands (and also can put ghast/crawler in the yard). If you can Sac the rat it is even better, because they came back one more time. Against creature based decks, a 2/2 blocker or attacker may be better in rare situations, but isn't save enough because the same decks will also bring enough removal, so you often board Sculler out. I think that Sculler is better against Graveyard based Decks (Dredge/Reanimator) because you donīt want that your opponent can profit from discard and Game 1 against Combo Decks, because the rarely can answer him without Sideboard Cards.
Remember that you also need W for Sculler so you must play a scrubland which can be an additional wasteland target and in my opponion the early turn plays are very crucial with this deck (one reason, because it is so hard to master). And you can trow it into faithless looting (or liliana, entomb, troll, if you play uncommon builds) and still profit.
TEAM MtG Berlin
Leyline is no real combo hate.. they go off, bounce it and kill you. It does nothing.
O-ring? Ok yeah.. You're 1off is combo hate vs Show n Tell decks, wont disagree..
Thalia.. yep works.. but I'm no fan of her in this deck since she bothers you aswell when 1/3 of your cards are non-creature non-lands..
Canonist.. yep she works. Won't disagree. 2-3 Minimum in the sideboard imho.
To the matter of fast clock.. this deck has none.
Yes it actually is possible to have a Carrion Feeder larger then Emrakul t5.. but come on if we're going to compare nut draws we're dead t1. anwyway.
This deck does not have a good clock. Never did, never intended to have.
I'm not saying that it's necessary to have Force of Will to stand a chance vs combo decks, but you have to attack different angles. Discard alone (even 12 cards) won't be enough..specially not if the do have leyline which turns off most of your hate.
I'm not even talking about nut-draws by our opponents.. just that we are actually the ones to have nut-draws to chacne a chance. what are you going to do if they open with a Leyline? Sure you can hope your 3/60 cards can destroy it (if it doesn't get countered) & have enough discard to help) or you can praise your 2-3 hatebears get there.. sure it can happen.. but I'll never call that a good matchup.
I play Elves. A lot of my combo wins are discard => Thorn/Teeg => Beat with little men. It does work, and Zombies runs more discard than Elves do. You also have room for Liliana. Thalia/Thorn is a huge blowout. The key thing is that it slows down all of their setup work, and it slows down the process of finding an answer while your little men kick his ass. The idea is pretty much to be a prison deck like D&T.
Just saw this card : Contamination.
Could it be played in this deck ? with a gravecrawler and another zombie in play you lock the opponent out of the game. Also with bloodghast/undiscovered paradise.
I just wonder if it is really powerful or if too much things need to happen to make that work. Even in the worst cases it could buy some turns.
The black blood moon that beats basics? I think it is solid
Its certainly good but couldn't just be jammend in the list it'd need to be built around realitically its a turn four or five play you'd need an engine already in place to make it good and I'd imagine bitterblosson would be a must in the list.
Contamination needs a deck, I nominate this one, you are the guys to do it. Go make us proud.
And later, angry.
Has our deck had any showings of late? Any new showings from Sam Black? Any good showings from anyone other than Sam Black?
I think the deck is just underrepresented. I certainly don't have anybody playing it locally.
If you guys made contamination work, people might want to play it more. :)
hey
Super weak version of lingering souls without flying it requires an engine or unfavorable attacks
Did'nt read carefully the whole threat, but what do you think about Young Pyromancer instead of Deathrite Shaman?
Could be something like that :
Creature (20)
4x Bloodghast
4x Carrion Feeder
4x Young Pyromancer
4x Gravecrawler
4x Tidehollow Sculler
Enchantment (3)
3x Goblin Bombardment
Instant (1)
1x Abrupt Decay
Sorcery (16)
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Faithless Looting
4x Lingering Souls
4x Thoughtseize
+ Manabase
With all the recursive plan we have, do you give Pyromancer a try?
Last edited by kravkenov; 11-05-2013 at 08:34 PM.
An Evolution of the deck with Liliana of the veil and punshing fire. I think is the correct way because Goblin bombardment is less efective with faithless looting than punishing fire, and Liliana add more answers Vs combo and control.
3 Carrion Feeder
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Punishing fire
2 Thoughtseize
3 Lingering souls
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Liliana of the veil
1 Swamp
1 Bayou
3 Scrubland
3 Badlands
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Bloodstainde mire
4 Marsh flats
i found this card..
So?
Its a worse Goblin Bombardment.
- CC3 instead of 2 (minor point)
- Costs mana to activate (hugh point)
- Zombies only (largest point).
Cutting bombardment is wrong being able to sac your army for that last 4-5 points of dmg is huge using it as removal is a utility function and extra copys can be pitched just fine to lili you want all your lands to make black for crawer so the groves really hurt the mana base as well.
I really don't think cutting Goblin Bombardment is the right way to go.
There is too much synergies between Goblin Bombardment and the recursives creatures and Ligering Souls's token. Plus Punishing Fire need mana to burn, Goblin Bombardment don't.
Currently I'm trying to add Lotleth Troll and Vengevine to the mix.
It's very fun, but I can't yet say wich is more efficient :
Classic version
Creature (20)
4xBloodghast
4xCarrion Feeder
4xGravecrawler
4xTidehollow Sculler
4xDeathrite Shaman
Enchantment (3)
3xGoblin Bombardment
Instant (1)
1xAbrupt Decay
Sorcery (16)
4xCabal Therapy
4xFaithless Looting
4xLingering Souls
4xThoughtseize
20 Lands
Lotleth Troll - Vengevine version
Creature (18)
4xBloodghast
4xCarrion Feeder
4xGravecrawler
3xLotleth Troll
3xVengevine
Enchantment (3)
3xGoblin Bombardment
Instant (2)
2xAbrupt Decay
Sorcery (17)
2xBuried Alive
4xCabal Therapy
4xFaithless Looting
3xLingering Souls
4xThoughtseize
20 Lands
Tou might find some help with lotleth troll if you search living dead girl you really want putrid imp and rootwalla to be able to bin and swing with the vines right away
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