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Thread: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SIMMERING POT OF FECAL MATTER]

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    Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SIMMERING POT OF FECAL MATTER]

    And the first card has been spoiled, Avacyn herself.

    http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...1&d=1333415410

    Seems like a card that will have little if any impact in Legacy. Reanimator already has better targets and she's still vulnerable to StP.
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    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    Dies to StP, destroys aggro though if you don't have a exile effect.
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    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

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    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    Oh man, I can't wait to have someone build the Avacyn + every Armageddon + Nev's Disk EDH deck and then bitch at me when I kill them with an infinite combo.

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    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    Sphinx also dies to StP and gets played. It's definitely a potential reanimator target, as non-white decks can't deal with it very effectively. Might not make the cut though.

    Kind of boring design, though.
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  5. #5

    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    I really like the card, even though I don't plan on putting it in any of my decks. I already asked you guys how it would do in Reanimator, and I guess you were right in saying there are better reanimation targets.

    Seems like a very strong casual(ish) general to me. And it will definitely be an auto include in all Kaalia decks.

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    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    Sphinx also dies to StP and gets played. It's definitely a potential reanimator target, as non-white decks can't deal with it very effectively. Might not make the cut though.

    Kind of boring design, though.
    It's a potential, every fatty is a potential. But it's worse than a lot of other options. Sphinx is a great anti-aggro card. This? Not so much. The only decks where Reanimator is really worried about non-plow, non-edict type removal would be the midrange black decks that may run Vindicate or GftT/Doom Blade. Once you've got a reanimated fatty on the board, you're not concerned about people blowing up your lands and the only permanents you play are lands and fatties. It's definitely not going to replace Jin as your first target and I can't think of a situation where this could be better than the current suite of Timmy cards.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draener View Post
    You know who thinks it's sweet to play against 8 different decks in an 8 round tournament? People who don't like to win, or people that play combo. This is not EDH; Legacy is a competitive environment, and it should reward skill - more so than it does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Borealis View Post
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    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    ZOMG ANGEL! INDESTRUCTIBLE! *jizz in pants*

    Looks like a boring card tailored exactly for the EDHorde.
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    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    Kind of boring design, though.
    I'm happy with this. I've had enough with the ludicrous power creep in fatties. Progenitus was bad enough, but then they printed Iona, Emrakul, Blightsteel, and Jin Whatshisname. It's annoying to have such stupid fat exist that can be dumped out turn 1-2 in decks that can pack Daze/Force to counter your removal. Balanced? Yeah. But not very fun. Phage and Hypnox came with clauses against reanimation for a reason.

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    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    No, I mean it's just boringly designed. It's a big dumb fatty. With flying. And a minor self-protection ability. For something the set is named after it's pretty plain and uninspired.
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    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Koby View Post
    ZOMG ANGEL! INDESTRUCTIBLE! *jizz in pants*

    Looks like a boring card tailored exactly for the EDHorde.
    This card is a trap in EDH, though. If you build a deck around it, one of two things will happen: either (a) things will go as expected and the experience will be miserable for basically everyone but you, or (b) everyone else will realize you are the All-Wraths-And-Armageddons deck and prioritize killing you, which is probably not a very good experience for you. There's very little incentive to just play her fairly as a big dumb beatstick in the format.

    Also, I take it you don't play EDH?

  11. #11

    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    How many "destroy" effects are there in Legacy anyways? Wasteland? Burn spells? Combat Damage? The bonus just doesn't seem very good in any deck that would actually use this. Still, way better than another stupid Emrakul/Progenitus piece of "i win" garbage.

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    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies View Post
    Also, I take it you don't play EDH?
    Correct, I don't play formats that have house rule against LD.
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    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Koby View Post
    Correct, I don't play formats that have house rule against LD.
    Eh, there isn't such a thing around here, but I get your point.

  14. #14

    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    House rules against land destruction in EDH are pretty weak. I get why they exist, but I still say they're weak sauce.

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    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Ragu View Post
    House rules against land destruction in EDH are pretty weak. I get why they exist, but I still say they're weak sauce.
    Targeted LD is fine. Mass LD is bearable if you have a fast clock. But if you're running mass LD with the intention of grinding people out, then fuck off: at least the combo player has the decency to make the games end quickly.

    EDIT: I meant that "you" generally, not you specifically.

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    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    I wouldn't brush of Avacyn so easily. It's a very big fatty with protection (although not against the most common spot removal spell) vigilance and evasion. Batterskull shows how strong vigilance is. It's perfect for racing your opponent. I could see Avacyn as a Loyal Retainers target over Elesh Norn in some maverick build utilizing that package, and perhaps in reanimator. I don't think it will go in dredge but who knows.

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    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    I see little practical difference between an explicit "no mass LD" rule and an implicit "let's not everyone bring a mono-U or U/B combo deck, k?" agreement.

    And they both make sense to me, since EDH is pretty much pointless and dumb as a competitive format.

    (this is a blatant derail, but it's not like there's much to say about Avacyn the card)

    e:
    I wouldn't brush of Avacyn so easily. It's a very big fatty with protection (although not against the most common spot removal spell) vigilance and evasion. Batterskull shows how strong vigilance is. It's perfect for racing your opponent. I could see Avacyn as a Loyal Retainers target over Elesh Norn in some maverick build utilizing that package, and perhaps in reanimator. I don't think it will go in dredge but who knows.
    Just use white Akroma if that's what you need. It's not quite as reliable in combat, but between haste and trample it's going to usually kill a turn faster which is considerably more important when you're trying to win with a non-shroud non-Iona creature. Avacyn is only really better at blocking Knight of the Reliquary (Tarmogoyf isn't that likely to get to 6/7 in this match), in which case you're certainly facing StP and probably Mother of Runes as well.
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    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    Batterskull shows how strong vigilance is. It's perfect for racing your opponent.
    Batterskull has also lifelink which makes a huge difference in terms of racing.

    She isn't a bad card, but I can't see her finding a place in Legacy, mainly because exile effects are among the common removal.

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    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    No, I mean it's just boringly designed. It's a big dumb fatty. With flying. And a minor self-protection ability. For something the set is named after it's pretty plain and uninspired.
    I actually like her. As a card for Legacy it is mostly worthless but as a big leader who is going to protect all those little G/W Humans it is a nice ability.

    You might be able to make a standard ramp deck to user her but I expect she will mostly see play in multi-player games like Emporer, Star Magic or some EDH.

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    Re: Avacyn Restored Card Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    No, I mean it's just boringly designed. It's a big dumb fatty. With flying. And a minor self-protection ability. For something the set is named after it's pretty plain and uninspired.
    I expected her to be big, have flying, and have some form of protection or being indestructible due to the only way the demons of the plane could get rid of her was trapping her in the Helvault (i.e, exiled.) But I do agree that I was hoping for something a bit flashier to be the representative card of this set.

    That said, she'll land a spot in my Aggro-Kaalia deck. Dropping a turn 2-3 Kaalia and turn 3-4 Geddon is good. Doing it after dropping Avacyn is even better.

    It will cause some people to try for the "lock" similar to Disk + Forge + Lattice that Arcum players usually lock people out with, but I doubt that will be very successful as a strategy.

    As far as house rules against LD- Casual playgroups don't particularly care for LD because it's deemed as un-fun as someone winning turn 2 in a multiplayer game. They don't want to play competitively and that's fine. But most of the playgroups I play with have realized 2 things- Green land ramp is powerful in an almost unbalanced way if LD isn't allowed in a group and becomes the go to deck type (ramp into whatever win you want), and that aggro decks cannot compete unless they have some form of disruption which usually involves mass LD and mass Hand-D. Both of those things, while not fun, are necessary to keep an "advanced" playgroup balanced.
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