TimeWalk 2.0 Stillbirth?

[Tao]

Come on IBA, just look the fucking card. Entreat the Angels is a billion times better than Decree in a format with Brainstorm and Top. You get X+1 Angels instead of X Soldiers -_-

[dontbiteitholmes]

How? The normal cost of the new one is a full mana cheaper and the Miracle option is way better given cantrips than the cycle effect on Decree. I can't see how Justice could possibly be better.

Uncounterable instant speed dudes + draw a card is better in a control mirror. That said neither one is particularly playable in the current metagame.

[Greenpoe]

GBr Nic Fit builds run Broodmate Dragon which means paying a full six mana for two 4/4 flyers - remember, for this mana cost you can play huge threats like Grave Titan. Entreat the Angels costs 4 instead of 6 for the same effect. The fact is that a 4/4 creature with flying will comfortably block any non-Goyf, non-KotR creature, from Clique to Delver to Nactl, and so forth. With Top, you can EOT drop two or three 4/4 Angels.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

How? The normal cost of the new one is a full mana cheaper and the Miracle option is way better given cantrips than the cycle effect on Decree. I can't see how Justice could possibly be better.

Because the cycle effect is 90% of the reason you play DoJ, so being better at making angels is an afterthough. And 90% of the reason to play the cycling effect is because it cycles; it's uncounterable and you can get rid of it early. It's there to be a mana sink and a way to break control mirrors, not to give people a really juicy counter target.


How about nobody fucking question my authority when it comes to playing Decree of fucking Justice in Legacy.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Because the cycle effect is 90% of the reason you play DoJ, so being better at making angels is an afterthough. And 90% of the reason to play the cycling effect is because it cycles; it's uncounterable and you can get rid of it early. It's there to be a mana sink and a way to break control mirrors, not to give people a really juicy counter target.


How about nobody fucking question my authority when it comes to playing Decree of fucking Justice in Legacy.

LOL, man DOJ is a throwback. How many games were decided back in the mid 2000's by who pulled the trigger on cycling DOJ for buttloads of soldiers last.

[Lord Seth]

I think the entire list is Memory Jar and Mind's Desire, so, two.

Depends on how you define it. If memory serves right (heh), Memory Jar was a genuine emergency banning in that it was not banned on the usual dates they ban cards on.

However, Mind's Desire was banned at the regular banning time, but it was still banned so soon after the set came out that it didn't have a chance to actually affect the game yet (I could be wrong, but I do not believe there were any major Legacy or Vintage tournaments--or Type 1 and Type 1.5 as they were called back then--in the time period between Mind's Desire's release and its banning/restriction) and thus it could still be considered an emergency ban. Though as that was back when Vintage and Legacy were tied together through their banned/restriction lists (and thus any restriction in Vintage would require a ban in Legacy), I wonder if it would have still been banned in Legacy had there been the distinction between the formats back then, or if they would have (at least on that particular date) solely restricted it in Vintage.

Regardless, out of all the cards printed in Magic, either 1 or 2 cards got emergency banned, depending on how you define it. Which again backs up my point: The burden of proof should be on the person asserting that a card should join that tiny number of cards that were pre-emptively banned rather than the 10,000+ cards that weren't.

[Vacrix]

Because the cycle effect is 90% of the reason you play DoJ, so being better at making angels is an afterthough. And 90% of the reason to play the cycling effect is because it cycles; it's uncounterable and you can get rid of it early. It's there to be a mana sink and a way to break control mirrors, not to give people a really juicy counter target.


How about nobody fucking question my authority when it comes to playing Decree of fucking Justice in Legacy.

No doubt that the cycling is sick but theres a reason nobody plays it anymore. Cycling into lol soldier tokens doesn't get there anymore, especially when you compare that win condition to Jace. In this case, you can cantrip with Top at the end of their turn and play this EoT on their turn and blow them out after you untap. Something that a motley crew of uncounterable soldier tokens cannot do.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

Did some shitty, half-assed testing of Time Walk 2.0, and I have to revise my original opinion. The card isn't broken. Hell, I'm not even sure if it's great, as I really don't have much real experience at the helm of U/R Delver or Blue Tempo decks.

However, this card is so fucking annoying to play against. So if it does become a fixture, even a minor one, in the metagame, people will be screaming for a ban. The card allows you to break certain stalemates wide open and turn some losing situations around. An extra attack step, more time to beef up board presence, extra walker activations...it can be powerful. How often? Not sure, but boy does it stick in your mind as total shit.

Compounding on the swinginess factor is the ever-present Blue Issue; this is a Blue card that does bullshit things and can only be effectively fought through Blue means (mill, counterspells, Stifle). If this was a targeted effect, and other colors could theoretically do something, it might mitigate hate for this card. But since it doesn't target, and Blue means are the only way to really stop it, it's going to catch a lot of flak.

I don't think this is going to be broken anymore, but man do I hate this card and wish it wasn't printed. Overly swingy effects are some of my least favorite things to play/play against in Magic, and lately Wizards has been injecting a ton of them into Legacy, mostly through absurd fatties, but also through mechanics like Miracle. Not something I'm a fan of, because I don't have the resources nor drive/skill to adopt the detached, uber-pro mindset.

[Gheizen64]

Two new cards that will probably see play



Instant
Discard your hand, then draw (2 or 3, can't remember) cards.
Common


and


Land of Awesome
Land
When Land of Awesome enters the battlefield, choose a creature type.
: Add to your mana pool.
: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Spent this mana only to play a creature of the chosen type. That creature cannot be countered.


If the first card say draw three, it's really, really good. Gonna play it somewhere for sure. If it say draw two, it's just good, and will still see play imho. Instant draw 2 for 1R is bonkers.

EDIT: why are we posting cards in this topic lol. I noticed just now this was the timewalk one.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

No doubt that the cycling is sick but theres a reason nobody plays it anymore. Cycling into lol soldier tokens doesn't get there anymore, especially when you compare that win condition to Jace. In this case, you can cantrip with Top at the end of their turn and play this EoT on their turn and blow them out after you untap. Something that a motley crew of uncounterable soldier tokens cannot do.

The problem with DoJ has never been that it was insufficiently powerful when you had the mana.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Or, put another way;

DoJ and Eternal Dragon saw play in Legacy middle-aughts, not because there weren't cards that were more powerful in the late game, but because they were late game cards that weren't completely dead early on.

And they don't get much traction in Legacy anymore, because the utility they had isn't enough anymore.

(Excepting some very niche decks/metagames.)

A card that's more powerful late game but has less rather than more use early on is not going to solve the problems with that type of card.

[Vacrix]

I can see it being good reasonable early on with Top. Resolve X with the Miracle for 1 or 2 and you have 1 or 2 4/4's with flying. 1WW or 2WW isn't asking much when you can do that EoT.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I guess that comes down to the as yet unresolved question of how reliable can you make Miracle with Tops and Brainstorm.

But my suspicion is that while people might play it and win games with the card, over the long run people are going to cut down on most Miracle cards that they don't have a real plan to hardcast or that don't win the game.

[Vacrix]

Two new cards that will probably see play


1R
Instant
Discard your hand, then draw (2 or 3, can't remember) cards.
Common


and


Land of Awesome
Land
When Land of Awesome enters the battlefield, choose a creature type.
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Spent this mana only to play a creature of the chosen type. That creature cannot be countered.


If the first card say draw three, it's really, really good. Gonna play it somewhere for sure. If it say draw two, it's just good, and will still see play imho. Instant draw 2 for 1R is bonkers.

2 mana draw 2 is not really that good when the condition is discard your hand. I'd say it would be fairly ridiculous if you drew 3.. for a common.

That land looks pretty dope even if its limited to one creature type. I doubt the tribal decks will play it though because Elves doesn't care if you counter one of its many mana producers, which pretty much all do the same thing. Goblins and Merfolk have Vial.

EDIT:
Would Dredge play the 1R discard hand, draw 3? You discard before drawing so you can get all your Dredgers into the graveyard and then go nuts. All the other draw spells in Dredge have you draw first, then discard.

[joemauer]

2 mana draw 2 is not really that good when the condition is discard your hand. I'd say it would be fairly ridiculous if you drew 3.. for a common.

That land looks pretty dope even if its limited to one creature type. I doubt the tribal decks will play it though because Elves doesn't care if you counter one of its many mana producers, which pretty much all do the same thing. Goblins and Merfolk have Vial.

EDIT:
Would Dredge play the 1R discard hand, draw 3? You discard before drawing so you can get all your Dredgers into the graveyard and then go nuts. All the other draw spells in Dredge have you draw first, then discard.

Tolarian Winds is better in dredge and doesn't see play due to the mana cost.

[Vacrix]

Agreed. I guess 2cc makes Daze harder to play around too.

[xfxf]

You aren't very smart, aren't you?

I'd say I'm pretty smart considering the degrees I hold and the work I do in normal life. You on the other hand don't seem that smart or mature judging by the 15 posts you have and the way you go on insulting people on a forum you just joined.

Now for a smart guy:

Here's a hint guys. We aren't pissed off because you guys think random time walk is good, we are pissed because people are acting like the world just ended and we are literally in a thread where over 1/3 of the people voted to pre-ban the card and no one has even really posted any evidence of why the card is busted yet.

Thanks man. Couldn't have said it better.

[Gheizen64]

2 mana draw 2 is not really that good when the condition is discard your hand. I'd say it would be fairly ridiculous if you drew 3.. for a common.

That land looks pretty dope even if its limited to one creature type. I doubt the tribal decks will play it though because Elves doesn't care if you counter one of its many mana producers, which pretty much all do the same thing. Goblins and Merfolk have Vial.

EDIT:
Would Dredge play the 1R discard hand, draw 3? You discard before drawing so you can get all your Dredgers into the graveyard and then go nuts. All the other draw spells in Dredge have you draw first, then discard.

This is for aggro deck. EoT draw two (or three) business spell is pretty good i've heard. Especially if you kept the mana open anyway because you play bolt or lavamancer or something like that.

[xfxf]

Bad argument. I could just as easily say to you "prove to me it shouldn't be banned". Stop asserting that your opinion is fact.

Burden of proof is on the claimant. The ones who say, let's see if it's broken or not before banning are not claiming anything. The ones saying ban it now it's broken are claiming are something thus it's your responsibility to prove it's broken and requires banning.

[Nihil Credo]

Current approximate composition of posts in this thread:

30% - People who have mistaken it for a general AVR spoiler thread
50% - People getting into personal insults or discussing the B&R list in amazingly inane ways
20% - People actually staying on-topic and being reasonable

This is way under even our loose posting standards. Thread is closed, do not reopen it. You may discuss the issues involved in either the AVR spoiler thread or the general B&R thread.