[SCD] Griselbrand

[Vacrix]

I was thinking Grizzlebang. Sounds so dirty.

[whienot]

Griselbargain, all the way.

[catmint]

He's still your worst Sneak Attack guy, though. Emrakul basically wins when you attack, and while Progenitus doesn't, he's also immune to removal. Griselly does none of these things, although I guess you can pay seven in response to an StP in hopes of finding a counter.

I totally disagree. Sneak Attack for 10 damage has no value at all except if you have another Emrakul and Progenitus. With a safe life total you can draw 7-14 get another red source + emmy and end it in the same turn. Under pressure you attack first then draw 7 and try to win the next turn. Shouldnt be too difficult.

Progenitus is better as a show&tell target against some decks, but the demons won't be far behind.

[ESG]

Griselbargain, all the way.

We have a winner.

This card is Bargain with wings (and lifelink!). The only challenge will be cheating it into play. I don't foresee that being too hard.

[Kich867]

I think the more serious question is: Do we call him Grizzly Adams or Russel Brand?

Grizzlebees?

Reference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV8Jk...feature=relmfu

[Erdvermampfa]

I support catmint's suggestion to replace Progenitus with Griselbrand in Sneak Attack. However the only concern regarding this is that it lowers the blue count for Force of Will (although Sneak Attack runs enough blue cards even without Progenitus) and that it might become a bit too much lifeloss considering that the deck usually runs Ancient Tomb and Force.

[Kich867]

I support catmint's suggestion to replace Progenitus with Griselbrand in Sneak Attack. However the only concern regarding this is that it lowers the blue count for Force of Will (although Sneak Attack runs enough blue cards even without Progenitus) and that it might become a bit too much lifeloss considering that the deck usually runs Ancient Tomb and Force.

In my experience playing against Sneak and Show type decks is that they just take too much damage for his draw 7 to not be exceedingly dangerous. Furthermore, if he's removed, what purpose did he just serve. For sure, progenitus can die to some things as well, but far fewer and it puts the opponent on a 2 turn clock. Drawing 7 cards isn't really required of the deck and he's much too easily removed for all the setup / self damage he produces.

[ivanpei]

I don't understand why people don't think he is better than Proggy in sneaky show. He's great with snt and he is great with sneak attack. He is by far the 2nd best monster. The only downside is that he doesn't pitch to force.

Also if you are so behind, a showed Proggy does that help much when you get alpha striked. Gristlebrand is great at holding the fort because of his lifelink. Opponents cannot just swing into him. He then draws you cards and next turn, you can go crazy with sneak attack emmy.

[catmint]

In my experience playing against Sneak and Show type decks is that they just take too much damage for his draw 7 to not be exceedingly dangerous. Furthermore, if he's removed, what purpose did he just serve. For sure, progenitus can die to some things as well, but far fewer and it puts the opponent on a 2 turn clock. Drawing 7 cards isn't really required of the deck and he's much too easily removed for all the setup / self damage he produces.

you are talking about show&tell: Yes Progenitus is usually better of a show&tell except for decks with sac effects or in the late game where he is outraced. The problem is sneak attack: A single Progenitus does not do anything whereas Griselbrand outright wins the game in 95% of the time!

So in the show&tell case:
How is a 7/7 easily removed? It has to be a STP which makes the card draw life neutral. And if he is targeted with STP AND you cannot counter after drawing 7 you basically traded: - 1 show and tell -1 Griselbrand +7 cards versus -1 STP. Giving you a card advantage of 6 cards IN THE WORST CASE.

Also Ancient Tomb as a 3 of is only activated for Show&Tell, Sneak attack, Intuition or Jace and not for any cantrips or counterspells. So the self inflicted damage is not as high as in a stompy or staxx deck making it easily possible to draw 7-14.

I don't understand why people don't think he is better than Proggy in sneaky show. He's great with snt and he is great with sneak attack. He is by far the 2nd best monster. The only downside is that he doesn't pitch to force. ....

Not sure... in a deck with ~25 blue cards I rather have him beeing immune to Redblast

[Admiral_Arzar]

I think the more serious question is: Do we call him Grizzly Adams or Russel Brand?

How about the unholy love child of both - GRIZZLYBRAND.

[Mr. Safety]

Yeah but you need to run FKZ to win that turn.

Or Flayer of the Hatebound

[Vacrix]

Yes but Flayer isn't as sure of a win as decking yourself. If they have STP for Flayer or something then you aren't going to deal quite as much damage as you'd think with undying and such. Grizzlybang most certainly is a kill if you are playing FKZ.

[Infinitium]

Assuming the Grease enters play, you're going to therapy the opponent x4 and have a 7/7 lifelink in play in addition to your Zombie army, x4 Bridge protection versus topdecked mass removal and Ichorids. Not actually winning that turn is academic.

[ddt15]

I was thinking something like this:

4 Angel's Grace
4 Bargainboy

4 Show and Tell
4 LDV

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

4 Duress
4 Force of Will

1 Kill card (Tendrils?)
1 Echoing Truth

18 Land

Plan A: Drop Bargainboy, bargain into Angel's Grace, cast. Draw your whole deck, win.

Plan B: Drop Bargainboy or Emra (from sb?), Duress, Force, beatdown win.

This way it has built-in protection from stuff like burn/combo as well.

[Dreg]

Plan A: Drop Bargainboy, bargain into Angel's Grace, cast. Draw your whole deck, win.

No, no you can't. Assuming you drop your life til 6 (2 activations of Griselbrand) you won't have enough life to pay as a cost for the actiated to go off once more. So no, angel's grace does not work.

[ddt15]

No, no you can't. Assuming you drop your life til 6 (2 activations of Griselbrand) you won't have enough life to pay as a cost for the actiated to go off once more. So no, angel's grace does not work.

Why? Is there a rule that says you can't go to negative life?

[ZeinVoncy]

Why? Is there a rule that says you can't go to negative life?

Can't pay life when there is no life to pay, the loss of life is different then taking damage. If you are at one, you cannot afford to pay the Phyrexian mana cost since it requires two life.

[ddt15]

Can't pay life when there is no life to pay, the loss of life is different then taking damage. If you are at one, you cannot afford to pay the Phyrexian mana cost since it requires two life.

Ahh, too bad. Would've been an awesome combo. Back to brainstorming then.

[Mr. Safety]

Yes but Flayer isn't as sure of a win as decking yourself. If they have STP for Flayer or something then you aren't going to deal quite as much damage as you'd think with undying and such. Grizzlybang most certainly is a kill if you are playing FKZ.

Fair enough...it was just another option, but I agree that FKZ is definately superior. It just needs to hit the battlefield to do it's job by providing haste, whereas Flayer needs to stick around through each activation.

On a different note (and I saw someone post something about Angel's Grace) Griselbrand will become Ad Nauseam #5 in my jank combo deck which also uses 2x Phyrexian Unlife for the same benefit.

Angel's Grace + Ad Nauseam = draw your whole deck FTW.

[Einherjer]

Why do you all want to bring Griselbrand in a Stormcombo deck, I think he is way stronger in SneakAttack!.