This thread is intended for developing a decklist and discussing how to use Food Chain.
Here's my current decklist for a version using Misthollow Griffin (which was heavily influenced by Caleb Durward's own list and can be seen here):
*Food Chain Griffin Combo*
Creature - 22
1 AEthersnipe
2 Coiling Oracle
2 Fierce Empath
2 Raven Familiar
2 Court Hussar
2 Drift of Phantasms
3 Misthollow Griffin
1 Maga, Traitor to Mortals
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Noble Hierarch
Enchantment - 4
4 Food Chain
Instant - 11
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
2 Spell Pierce
Sorcery - 3
1 Ponder
2 Living Wish
Artifact - 3
3 Chrome Mox
Land - 17
2 Forest
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Windswept Heath
1 Savannah
2 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
SB: 1 Misthollow Griffin
SB: 1 Maga, Traitor to Mortals
SB: 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB: 1 AEthersnipe
SB: 3 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Progenitus
SB: 4 Natural Order
SB: 3 Loaming Shaman
Card Choices:
Court Hussar and Raven Familiar - lets you dig into the deck with creatures that can be cast with Food Chain or fed to Food Chain once it is found.
AEthersnipe - intended to remove many problematic cards from the board. Target for Fierce Empath.
Fierce Empath - debatable addition. If AEthersnipe is removed, Fierce Empath could be removed, as well. Finds AEthersnipe and Emrakul.
Drift of Phantasms - most often used as a Transmute for Food Chain, a Court Hussar, or Raven Familiar.
Living Wish - allows a fourth Misthollow Griffin; a second Emrakul, the Aeons Torn; and a second Maga, Traitor to Mortals to be played in the Sideboard. Also allows a few toolbox cards to be played in the Sideboard, as well, such as Loaming Shaman, Gaddock Teeg, and AEthersnipe.
Chrome Mox - provides a little speed. Misthollow Griffin can be imprinted on the card and cast later. Please note that once the Misthollow Griffin is cast from exile, Chrome Mox can no longer tap for blue mana. This is usually not problematic, however, as you'll likely be comboing off at that point anyways.
Misdirection - a little added protection. Works well with Misthollow Griffin. Often functions like Force of Will in forcing through Food Chain or a piece of the combo insofar as you can change the target of a counterspell targeting one of your cards to the Misdirection, effectively countering it.
Coiling Oracle - awesome little creature. Provides ramp or card draw. Works well with Brainstorm. Can be fed to Food Chain. Was an all-star in the older Elf Food Chain versions of the deck. Less powerful, here, but still a fine choice.
Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors - a small bit of ramp.
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn - the win condition of choice, given you'll be hard casting it.
Maga, Traitor to Mortals - secondary win condition. Gets around certain things that Emrakul cannot, like Ensnaring Bridge. Can be Stifled.
Some Cards to Consider:
Eternal Witness - a body that can recover a discarded card from the graveyard and be fed to the Food Chain.
Gaea's Herald - a little extra protection from counterspells. Seems unnecessary, but might be an option.
Intuition - apt at finding combo pieces at Instant speed. In this regard, Intuition has a leg up on Drift of Phantasm's Transmute. Can also find Misthollow Griffin. On the downside, it is not a creature.
Show and Tell - perhaps an excellent backup plan to maindeck or come out of the sideboard. Would require playing more Emrakuls maindeck and less Fierce Empath. Could be found with Drift of Phantasm's Transmute.
Natural Order - another backup plan coming out of the sideboard. The deck is already playing plenty of green creatures. Might not be a bad choice. Inferior to Show and Tell insofar as it is not a target for Drift of Phantasm's Transmute.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - yet another backup plan that also provides added utility. Rarely needs to be justified and yet this deck may not be the place for him.
Man-O'-War - performs a function similar to AEthersnipe at a converted mana cost of 3. Thus, it is a legal target for Drift of Phantasms but not Fierce Empath. A version without Fierce Empath might value this card more. Note: this only targets creatures.
Mulldrifter - good card draw on a body. Its Evoke provides amazing value with Food Chain in play. Only downside is that it does not dig as deep as Raven Familiar or Court Hussar (albeit by only one card).
Ingot Chewer - removes an artifact. Seems inferior to AEthersnipe insofar as it only targets artifacts, is not blue, and cannot be searched with Fierce Empath.
Manipulate Fate and Foresight - allows you to search your library and exile Misthollow Griffin. Maybe too cute or narrow to really be good, as it can only find the Misthollow Griffin and not the Food Chain. Other obvious drawback is that they're sorceries.
Extract - functions as a tutor for Misthollow Griffin. Like Manipulate Fate and Foresight, this might be too narrow and is also, unfortunately, a sorcery.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir - allows the deck to go off at instant speed once the Food Chain is in play and provides protection for the combo.
Worldly Tutor - search your library for a creature card.
Eladamri's Call - search your library for a creature card at Instant speed. Requires a stronger commitment to white. Might not be too difficult to pull off with Birds of Paradise and Noble Hierarch. Might be worth doing because Enlightened Tutor is also white.
Enlightened Tutor - search your library for Food Chain or some other enchantment or artifact (possibly artifact creature) not yet considered.
Gaddock Teeg - Hinders combo and stops Force of Will.
Spoils of the Vault - you're usually naming Food Chain or Emrakul and hoping to exile a Misthollow Griffin in the process.
Plunge into Darkness - similar to Spoils of the Vault, but a little different. Hoping to hit a piece of your combo while exiling a Griffin. Less dangerous but requires a little more mana. Also allows you to sacrifice unwanted creatures, although this is a pretty rare occasion.
Tainted Pact - another card to fetch a combo piece or counterspell while exiling Misthollow Griffin in the process.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Mystic Snake
Sages of the Anima
Trygon Predator
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It has also been suggested that the Misthollow Griffin + Food Chain combo isn't the way to go, and that it would be more effective to rely on an Imperial Recruiter chain. Here's a list that I threw together, which was based off of Sedris' list, here:
*Food Chain Recruiter*
Creature - 24
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Phantasmal Image
1 Fierce Empath
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Drift of Phantasms
4 Court Hussar
2 Raven Familiar
Enchantment - 4
4 Food Chain
Instant - 12
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
Sorcery - 3
3 Ponder
Land - 17
1 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Forest
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
2 Tropical Island
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Christopher Piedra's Food Chain finished 42/147 at SCG Orlando May 20th, 2012. SCG Deck Tech: here
Creatures
1 AEthersnipe
4 Coiling Oracle
1 Drift of Phantasms
2 Elvish Visionary
3 Fauna Shaman
2 Fierce Empath
3 Llanowar Elves
1 Misthollow Griffin
2 Mulldrifter
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Quirion Ranger
3 Vengevine
3 Wirewood Symbiote
Enchantments
4 Food Chain
Instants
4 Brainstorm
Legendary Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Sorceries
2 Glimpse of Nature
Basic Lands
4 Forest
1 Island
Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
Legendary Lands
2 Gaea's Cradle
Sideboard:
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Vengevine
1 Viridian Shaman
3 Force of Will
2 Krosan Grip
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
Last edited by Skogre; 05-21-2012 at 04:06 AM.
I like it a lot. Couple questions:
What is the AEthersnipe for?
Does Fierce Empath only grab Emrakul? Would it be better to just run more Emrakuls?
That's how I would incorporate Food Chain in a Legacy deck:
4 Food Chain
4 Show and Tell
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Intuition
3 Misdirection
2 Lotus Petal
4 Misthollow Griffin
1 Fierce Empath
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 Progenitus
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Island
2 Forest
1 Boseiju, who shelters all
I like having a backup plan, that's why I chose Show and Tell. Eureka could also work.
Could Sneak Attack work as an alternative to SnT?
Well, if you want to build a Food Chain deck, Show and Tell should be your alternate win plan, because splashing for Blue doesn't hurt, but even helps you, since you get access to cantrips, counters and Intuition.
Furthermore a Fattie + Show and Tell means winning the game often enough, and the option of Misthollow Griffin + Food Chain is a cute alternative. So in this case, my suggested list is probably a Show and Tell deck with Food Chain as alternative. :P
And since we already have Sneak Show and Hive Mind as Show and Tell decks, probably a bad idea. xD
Not only it does work as an alternative, it can essentially become a red Food Chain if you build the deck with that in mind. This is the list I've been playing for a while:Originally Posted by Darkenslight
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Taiga
3 Ancient Tomb
2 Gaea's Cradle
4 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Fauna Shaman
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Wall of Blossoms
4 Imperial Recruiter
2 Fierce Empath
4 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Krosan Tusker
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Food Chain
4 Sneak Attack
3 Sylvan Library
AEthersnipe can bounce Ensnaring Bridge and an opponent's Emrakul, the Aeons Torn to clear the way for your own. I'm guessing that there might be a number of situations in which something needs to be bounced, but nothing else immediately comes to mind.
Fierce Empath's only other target is AEthersnipe. If AEthersnipe was cut, so could the Fierce Empaths. My hope was also that somebody might know of some other sweet Fierce Empath targets, as well. Previously I had considered Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Myojin of Seeing Winds, Phyrexian Gargantua, and Griselbrand for card draw, but those seem unnecessary if you can just get Emrakul, the Aeons Torn into play immediately.
Eureka could be great since you're in green anyways. My concern, though, would be casting Eureka, putting an Emrakul in play and then your opponent putting a Jace, the Mind Sculptor in play.
Maga,Traitor to Mortals >>> Emrakul.
Just saying...
This is my own list but maybe it can help you out some;
Creature (13)
1x Blazing Archon
1x Grozoth
1x Myojin of Life's Web
4x Fierce Empath
4x Scornful Egotist
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
Enchantment (8)
4x Food Chain
4x Defense of the Heart
Sorcery (4)
4x Ponder
Land (21)
2x Forest
4x Island
3x Forbidden Orchard
4x Tropical Island
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding Tarn
Instant (14)
2x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Force of Will
3x Spell Snare
2x Mana Leak
3x Spell Pierce
The whole point is getting Scornful Egotist and Grozoth with Fierce Empath, With Grozoth getting all of the 9 CC creatures and then dropping them all with Myojin of Life's Web at the same time .
Cloudthresher seems like a really strong card: evoke for 4, get 7 mana out of it? Actually, pretty much any Evoke card that does something relevant to the game-state: Ingot Chewer seems especially appropriate as a splash card - for of any color? Sign me UP!
What does Misthollowgriffin better than 4 Imperial Recruiter and 4 Phantasmal Image?
I mean, Food Chain + Griffin + Carddrawcreatures into Fattie/Fattie = Win
But Food Chain + Imperial Recruiter = Win
So why should anyone play a 3 card combo over a 2 card combo, when the only advantage is, that you don't need 4-8 slots more for the combo?
I won't play the 3 card combo over the 2 card combo, when the only aspects are less Slots, that you can pitch griffin into force and even then combo out and to be less affected by mindcensor.
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Phantasmal Image
1 Fierce Empath
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
I'm guessing the combo would go something like this:
With Food Chain in play: Imperial Recruiter --> Imperial Recruiter --> Imperial Recruiter --> Imperial Recruiter --> Phantasmal Image --> Phantasmal Image --> Phantasmal Image --> Phantasmal Image --> Fierce Empath --> Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
or
With Food Chain in play: cast Imperial Recruiter1 fetching Imperial Recruiter2; exile Imperial Recruiter1 (4 red mana), cast Imperial Recruiter2 (1 red mana) fetching Imperial Recruiter3; exile Imperial Recruiter2 (5 red mana), cast Imperial Recruiter3 (2 red mana) fetching Imperial Recruiter4; exile Imperial Recruiter3 (2 red mana, 4 blue mana), cast Imperial Recruiter4 (3 blue mana) fetching Phantasmal Image1; cast Phantasmal Image1 (1 blue mana) copying Imperial Recruiter fetching Phatasmal Image2; exile Phantasmal Image1 (5 blue mana) cast Phantasmal Image2 (3 blue mana) copying Imperial recruiter fetching Phantasmal Image3; cast Phantasmal Image3 (1 blue mana) copying Imperial Recruiter fetching Phantasmal Image4; exile Phantasmal Image2 (1 blue mana, 4 green mana), cast Phantasmal Image4 (3 green mana) copying Imperial Recruiter fetching Fierce Empath; cast Fierce Empath (0 mana) fetching Emrakul, the Aeons Torn; exile Imperial Recruiter4 (4 mana), Phantasmal Image3 (8 mana), Phantasmal Image4 (12 mana), and Fierce Empath (16 mana); cast Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.
It seems pretty good. What are some alternative routes or win conditions this could offer and would you care to offer a decklist?
One benefit to using Imperial Recruiter as a combo piece is that it, like Food Chain, has a CMC of 3, and can therefore be fetched using Drift of Phantasm's Transmute.
You could also have this Imperial Recruiter Food Chain package and one Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and one Pestermite, as well, as an additional win condition. That might be a little too greedy, though.
I believe the point of including and using Misthollow Griffin as a two-card combo is that you get to pitch them to Force and still use them to combo out, OR in the event of a catastrophic combo failure and your opponent has some random answer, you can grind them out with 3/3 fliers. With infinite mana in the question via Misthollow + Food Chain, using Imperial to get just enough mana to combo out seems academic.
Yes, thats exactly how it works.
I tested it in such a list longer time ago:
Lands - 20
1 Forest
2 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Taiga
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
Creatures - 24
2 Birds of Paradise
3 Wall of Blossoms
4 Phantasmal Image
2 Raven Familiar
1 Man-o'-War
4 Imperial Recruiter
2 Fierce Empath
1 Eternal Witness
4 Mulldrifter
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Instants - 12
4 Brainstorm
4 Intuition
4 Force of Will
Enchantments - 4
4 Food Chain
SB - 15
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Spell Pierce
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pact of Negation
3 Show and Tell
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Ingot Chewer
The List was quite fun, but i think it is very suboptimal.
You see, there are many ways to build around:
Maybe you Play plan B maindeck with SNT, or you splash black for Cabal Therapy and Shriekmaw. Then you may play the Recruiter Combo AND Griffin maindeck with much more Creatures.
I think a good idea is to play 4 GSZ for having more value and more Ramp.
I think there are thousand list which are better than mine, but its not bad to think about playing recruiter + food chain combo > griffin + food chain combo.
With Drift of Phantasms in Deck you can search the Drift for Food Chain with Recruiter and vice versa. The only problem is, that you need Food Chain for both combos.
Is there any room for Serum Powder in the deck to help mulligans and possibly setup the combo pieces? I'm intrigued by the prospect of UG Show and Chain lists. I'm going to try it out.
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Last edited by mordraid; 05-09-2012 at 01:32 PM.
There is no knowledge that it not power.
I did some testing with food chain combo and it's been a lot of fun. Spoils of the vault is completly insane, even killing myself in the process !
Spoils of the vault exile cards until you find the one you named, so it can exile any of your win conditions in the process. I've decided to play as many win condition as possible without hurting the deck so much.
Here's my declist so far
Creatures:
4x misthollow griffin
4x noble hierarch
4x birds of paradise
3x raven familiar
2x fierce empath
2x mulldrifter
2x drift of phantasms
3x coiling oracle
Win condition:
1x emrakul, the eons torn
2x soul of the harvest
1x maga, traitor to mortals
Spells:
4x food chain
4x force of will
4x spoils of the vault
mana:
3x chrome mox
4x tropical island
4x misty rainforest
1x verdant catacombs
3x city of brass
2x city of traitors
1x ancient tomb
1x bayou
With four win conditions in the deck, all being tutorable via fierce empath or drift of phantasms, it's more than enough to find one fast.
Spoils of the vault for food chain will usually turns out in a 6-14 life loss, the average being about 9. Sadly, it kills me one game in practice, removing 30 cards ! before finding a single food chain !. It rarely happens, but it still can ! The benefits of having like 8 food chain at instant speed for one mana ! ( that can remove griffin in the process) is just too good to pass, trust me on this one.
There is no knowledge that it not power.
This is the BUG version I've been playing around with:
Enchantment - 4
4 Food Chain
Instant - 17
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Plunge into Darkness
3 Spoils of the Vault
1 Misdirection
2 Tainted Pact
Sorcery - 2
2 Ponder
Creature - 20
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Raven Familiar
4 Court Hussar
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Birds of Paradise
Land - 17
1 Forest
2 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Flooded Strand
1 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
2 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
I have this odd split of 3, 2, 1 on Spoils of the Vault, Tainted Pact, and Plunge Into Darkness simply to make Tainted Pact a little better. I'm not sure if it's worth it, though. I think my preference is towards Tainted Pact because there's no life loss, but it's a little less consistent and requires splitting cards as much as possible.
@mordraid; I see your list has 3 Raven Familiar and 0 Court Hussar. Why do you prefer the Familiar over the Hussar? With the Birds of Paradise and Noble Hierarch I've never had too much trouble finding a source of white mana. Furthermore, you can stack the two triggers in such a way that you can look at the top 3 cards and then exile the creature in response to the sacrifice trigger.
Last edited by Skogre; 05-10-2012 at 01:56 AM.
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