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Thread: Food Chain Combo

  1. #41

    Re: Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by evanmartyr View Post
    Doesn't Food Chain restrict the mana gained from it to use on Creature spells only? Banefire would hit for very little in this deck.
    Indeed: however, there are a number of X spells that fit the bill of OHKO for Food Chain decks, but one of them is Stifle-able and the other has a teeny-tiny backside.

  2. #42
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    Re: Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenslight View Post
    Indeed: however, there are a number of X spells that fit the bill of OHKO for Food Chain decks, but one of them is Stifle-able and the other has a teeny-tiny backside.
    Going off, and then loosing to Gut Shoot, kinda sux... :)
    I´m a Derek, and Derek's don't run...

  3. #43

    Re: Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by evanmartyr View Post
    Doesn't Food Chain restrict the mana gained from it to use on Creature spells only? Banefire would hit for very little in this deck.
    Your right i totally missed that restriction .

  4. #44

    Re: Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenslight View Post
    Indeed: however, there are a number of X spells that fit the bill of OHKO for Food Chain decks, but one of them is Stifle-able and the other has a teeny-tiny backside.
    Neither of them are :x: spells, but it seems like Storm Entity and Deathforge Shaman could be better than Lightning Serpent.
    Last edited by rufus; 05-21-2012 at 01:02 PM.

  5. #45

    Re: Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Neither of them are :x: spells, but it seems like Storm Entity and Deathforge Shaman could be better than Lightning Serpent.
    Okay, I didn't realise the Shaman existed, but do you think the ability on the Entity is better than the Trample all the time, or would it be sensible to play both as alternates?

  6. #46

    Re: Food Chain Combo

    Problem with the entity is no evasion no trample. Do we know if we can spend food chain mana on a kicker? i would guess not

  7. #47

    Re: Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancerbb View Post
    Problem with the entity is no evasion no trample. Do we know if we can spend food chain mana on a kicker? i would guess not
    I don't know why you would say that, it explicitly says you can use the mana to cast creature spells.

    A kicked creature spell is still a creature spell, it is a cost in addition to the normal casting cost to play the spell, it doesn't occur afterward.. Joraga Warcaller kicked twice is just a 5 mana creature spell as opposed to not kicking it at all, a 1 mana creature spell.

  8. #48

    Re: Food Chain Combo

    SCG did a Deck Tech yesterday on Food Chain combo; he came in 42nd.

    Decklist can be found here: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=46296. It looks a lot like Caleb Durward's decklist from the LW article. The exact creature base is slightly tweaked and a few cards cut to make room for 2 Glimpse of Natures, but is essentially the same deck. My initial reaction is that you have to have 4 Fauna Shaman, but I'm inclined to sleeve this up and give it a go.
    Last edited by civet five; 05-22-2012 at 12:25 PM.

  9. #49

    Re: Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kich867 View Post
    I don't know why you would say that, it explicitly says you can use the mana to cast creature spells.

    A kicked creature spell is still a creature spell, it is a cost in addition to the normal casting cost to play the spell, it doesn't occur afterward.. Joraga Warcaller kicked twice is just a 5 mana creature spell as opposed to not kicking it at all, a 1 mana creature spell.
    Sorry i am new to legacy i dont know every single interaction with every card that is in existence. My next question is probably a stupid one too. Maga, Traitor to Mortals the second effect of the life loss can be stifled, But can the first effect getting the +1/+1 counters?

  10. #50
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    Re: Food Chain Combo

    looks good in paper but it's underperforming.

    all i can say is... This deck will NOT work.

  11. #51

    Re: Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by civet five View Post
    SCG did a Deck Tech yesterday on Food Chain combo; he came in 42nd.

    Decklist can be found here: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=46296. It looks a lot like Caleb Durward's decklist from the LW article. The exact creature base is slightly tweaked and a few cards cut to make room for 2 Glimpse of Natures, but is essentially the same deck. My initial reaction is that you have to have 3 Fauna Shaman, but I'm inclined to sleeve this up and give it a go.
    The decklist that ranked 42nd isn't that good. It got only 1 misthollow griffin, which i think is a mistake. 2nd mistake is the lack of force of will. It allows great resilience and protection, also goes very well with misthollow griffin.

    Glimpse of nature is good but can only serve to combo. Soul of the harvest, on the other hand, gives you a good body, a win condition and he's tutorable with fierce empath.

    I've been tinkering a list recently that did pretty well. My only point of concern is the choice between spoils of the vault and lim-dul's vault. Spoils of the vault is simply awsome, but can kill you sometimes ! Lim-dul's vault let you search your entire deck for about 11 lifes, the downside is that cards goes on top, where spoils puts it in your hand for one black mana.

    Here's my current list:

    Creatures:
    4x misthollow griffin
    4x birds of paradise
    4x noble hierarch
    4x coiling oracle
    3x court hussar
    2x mulldrifter
    2x fierce empath
    2x drift of phantasms
    1x maga, traitor to mortals
    1x soul of the harvest
    1x emrakul, the eons torn

    Spells:
    3x chrome mox
    4x food chain
    4x force of will
    4x spoils of the vault - lim-dul's vault

    Lands:
    4x tropical island
    4x misty rainforest
    2x city of traitors
    2x city of brass
    2x gemstone mine
    1x ancient tomb
    1x verdant catacombs
    1x bayou
    There is no knowledge that it not power.

  12. #52

    Re: Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancerbb View Post
    Sorry i am new to legacy i dont know every single interaction with every card that is in existence. My next question is probably a stupid one too. Maga, Traitor to Mortals the second effect of the life loss can be stifled, But can the first effect getting the +1/+1 counters?
    If it's "when" or "at" it can usually be stifled. "Enters the battlefield with/as" cannot. (Maga's +1/+1 counters can't be stifled.)

  13. #53
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    Re: Food Chain Combo

    Here is my current list...

    // Lands
    1 [ARC] Island (1)
    4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
    4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
    4 [R] Tropical Island
    1 [B] Savannah
    2 [TE] Ancient Tomb
    2 [ISD] Forest (1)

    // Creatures
    3 [AVR] Misthollow Griffin
    2 [RAV] Drift of Phantasms
    1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    1 [LRW] AEthersnipe
    1 [SOK] Maga, Traitor to Mortals
    4 [M12] Birds of Paradise
    4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
    4 [ARE] Coiling Oracle
    4 [DIS] Court Hussar
    2 [SC] Fierce Empath
    1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

    // Spells
    3 [JGC] Living Wish
    4 [MM] Food Chain
    4 [5E] Brainstorm
    4 [AL] Force of Will

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [AVR] Misthollow Griffin
    SB: 1 [RAV] Drift of Phantasms
    SB: 1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
    SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
    SB: 2 [MM] Misdirection
    SB: 1 [LRW] AEthersnipe
    SB: 1 [TSP] Harmonic Sliver
    SB: 1 [WWK] Deathforge Shaman
    SB: 1 [FD] Eternal Witness
    SB: 2 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
    SB: 1 [SOK] Kataki, War's Wage
    SB: 1 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker

    Are there any living wish targets I am missing? Harmonic sliver could go for sure. The others all seem useful. Deathforge could be a 2nd Maga. I would also like to fit a Gaddock Teeg.

  14. #54
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    Re: Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by cb4 View Post
    Are there any living wish targets I am missing? Harmonic sliver could go for sure. The others all seem useful. Deathforge could be a 2nd Maga. I would also like to fit a Gaddock Teeg.
    Loaming Shaman? I would also add Teeg. How does Kozilek work out? I am a little confused why some decks run Kozilek, Maga, and Emrakul even the with Fierce Empath. Especially with Living Wish and 2 other kill conditions in your sideboard, we really don't need 5 kill conditions.

    How are the 8 birds/nobles working out?

    Can you find an exiled Misthollow with Living Wish? EDIT - No - Exiled cards are still in one of the game's zones.

  15. #55
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    Re: Food Chain Combo

    Kozilek has been ok when you are not infinite. Ten is much easier to reach than 15. That said, he is the spot I would switch if there was a card I really wanted main.

    The eight dorks have been fine and I usually have here mana on turn two for chain or transmute. It is possible one more land and one less dork would be more stable vs decks with wastelands and creature kill. I have been facing lots of combo decks where the acceleration has helped.

    I have seen a lot of people running loading shaman but I don't understand why. Vs dredge I want stuff I can use turn one, two, or three. Macabre is nice cuz you can wish for it and use it turn two or transmute and use it turn two. I guess shaman is nice cuz he leaves a body behind after his effect for chain fodder. Teeg seems like a good call for the last spot.

  16. #56
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    Re: Food Chain Combo

    The problem wishing for any 2cc is that you are looking at turn 3 before you can play it. If you are on the draw, this is most likely too late against a lot of the fast combo decks. With Teeg or Loaming Shaman, people want to run 3 so they can play them on turn 2. However, if you are going to Wish against a gy deck, you would most likely grab a Bog.

    Shaman is also nice because you can clear their whole graveyard (FM only gives you 2), but you can also play FM at instant speed.

    If you consolidate your win conditions, you can clear up a few slots in your md and sb. I think the SB should focus on two things: 1) Delaying decks that are faster and 2) Protecting the combo (or creating an alternate combo) from decks that can interact.

    The first requires slowing down combo and dredge. The second requires protecting Food Chain from spells and abilities (through a card such as Sterling Grove) or running an alternative kill such as Natural Order or Show and Tell with Progenitus or Emrakul.

    It depends on your meta how much you do of each, but I could see this deck doing very well sideboarding into a 2nd kill against decks like Maverick - I think it would be very hard to beat a resolved Qasali Pridemage.

    Has anyone considered Griselbrand? While he is not an outright kill, he does refuel our hand, which most surely leads to a kill.

  17. #57
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    Re: Food Chain Combo

    Spellskite could be an answer to pridemage or artifact/enchantment removal.

  18. #58
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    Re: Food Chain Combo

    Revoker stops pridemage, even if pridemage resolves first. You name pridemage as revoker enters play, so they can't use pridemage on revoker in response.

    I considered griselbrand as well. I chose kozilek because he can be hard cast and because you draw even if he is countered.

  19. #59
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    Re: Food Chain Combo

    Good call on Spellskite. Also helps gain a few turns as a blocker.

    I like that you can draw with Kozilek without worrying about your life total. However, I'm not really worried about Kozilek being countered. The counter war should occur over the Food Chain entering play. Once Food Chain hits the board, I assume my monsters are clear.

  20. #60
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    Re: Food Chain Combo

    Good point. I may test soul of the harvest in kozi's spot. He would be much easier to hardcast than the other options. He draws your deck with misthollow combo.

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