Returning after a long break, I've read carefully the new inputs on the list.
I do agree that DRS is not a clear concern for us as opposed to Classic Reanimator lists which are severely hindered by the tiny Elf Shaman (This sole point makes me think that NLR is far more adapted to the recent metagame than its glorious ancestor).Originally Posted by Bright Light Bringer
Altought, the trick you are trying to illustrate here doesn't work as you'd think it would : Shallow Grave => Exile Jin/Grisel by DRS => Entomb on Emrakul will leave the stack as this
Up
Shuffling Trigger from Emrakul
Reanimation
Down
You can see that there's no efficient way to produce the 15/15 hasty Flying Pasta monster via the Entomb Trick.
That being said, Hasty Griselbrand will replenish your hand and overwhelm you opponent later just fine.
I do agree on Animate Dead being far from adapted with the spreading of Abrupt Decay in all BUG/Jund List sporting also DRS nowadays.
I don't think Reanimate is a valid choice though. The life loss is nothing to overlook given that most of our tools work better when we operate at a high life total.
But, the excellent new is that with the conjunction of DRS and Decay, Knight of the Reliquary, one of our most feared enemies gets to see less and less play.
Moreover, Classic Reanimator is less played than ever.
Those two facts combined let me think that Exhume is the slot we should incluse over Animate Dead => Big monster or Knight into Karakas are not really that frequent of a situation anymore. The Entomb Trick works here just fine as well as an additional way to play around DRS exile.
On your list, I simply prefer consistancy over explosiveness at all cost which the point in running Ponder over Dark Ritual. The deck still gets to draw 7 to 14 cards by turn 3 which is perfectly paced for the Legacy at the moment. I don't think the risk of running into mana flooded hand is worth running as opposed to regular turn 4 kills with protection all the way down.
On an unrelated note, the MD and sideboard could be adapted to splash G for 2 or 3 Abrupt Decay in the SB => Pretty much wreaks Counterbalance, while not being a bad answer to most of the traditional hate (Crypt/Relic/Spellbomb/Ooze/DRS/Cage). Leyline of the Void could be a problem but in a meta where Dredge and Reanimator are not frequent Matchups, I simply don't see Leyline being a good meta call.
Good to see you back to working on NLR! Agreed with both of these thoughts.
I'm not so sure about splashing; I've been wanting to run fewer lands, which doesn't really allow for a third color. I think Pithing Needle is extremely well positioned now; it shuts off the majority of the hate that we're going to see and can be dropped before the combo turn. I played against a traditional reanimator list in the 3-0 bracket (no byes) at GP Denver that had Needle in the main.
I really want to try Gitaxian Probe and Cabal Therapy in this deck after seeing how insane it is in TES. You really don't want to play non-instant reanimates but do want more than 8 reanimate effects. Probe thins the deck, making hits more likely. What I tried out (unsuccessfully against ANT in an 8-man win-a-box):
4 Lotus Petal
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
3 Careful Study
1 Stifle
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Griselbrand
2 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
1 Karakas
// Sideboard
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Pithing Needle
3 Show and Tell
2 Echoing Truth
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Angel of Despair
1 Karakas
1 Darkblast
I only had one Stifle on me, otherwise I think I would have played more. Obviously the Stifle and the Karakas are unlikely to be drawn in the maindeck, but they sometimes are and they free board space. I liked Therapy a lot from the few games I played with the list. Therapy in general is insane and it gets even more value when we can sac our men for profit.
As an illustration of the green splash I'm currently testing, here's the list in its most recent shape.
MD, the only change worth noting is the swap between Animate Dead and Exhume for previously mentionned reasons.18 mana sources
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Lotus Petal
7 Reanimation targets
2 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
4 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
9 Reanimation
4 Shallow Grave
3 Goryo's Vengeance
2 Exhume
8 Dump
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
7 Cantrips
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
8 Protection
4 Force of Will
1 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
3 Miscellaneous
2 Stifle
1 Darkblast
SB: 4 Show and Tell
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Impulse
SB, Decay makes its entrance as an versatile answer to many of the problems we may encounter post board and a powerful tool against counterbalance.
Everything else stays quite simirlar to previous versions with the adding of the fourth S&T to increase our plan B consistancy.
Just curious to see where this deck is at now. Has the explosion in popularity of TinFins contributed to this thread going dormant? I would think the proof of concept of the instant-style rez plan might have given this a boost instead. I still like the green splash for Abrupt Decay.
As I'm concerned, I'm toying with Tin Fins concept ATM, thus putting NLR in standby.
Your analysis is accurate as Tin Fins popularity proves Instant speed Reanimation to be a valid concept.
Check the TinFins thread in established if you want to see where this deck is at. I'm not sure why this separate thread exists.
Before children of korlis was added to the deck there where lots of variations and ideas for instant speed reanimate and Tin Fins was just one of them. This version was stuck between regular reanimate and Tin Fins. Trying to rapidly reanimate Griselbrand, EOT Jin-Gitaxias or Nicol Bolas to wreck a players hand or even reanimate Emrakul. Next Level Reanimate. It never saw lot of play since it didn't have a clear plan.
Anyway, if you scroll thru threads in here, you will encounter lots of different kinds of Griselbrand reanimate storm comboish decks. None of them consistent enough until Children was found. I believe Dela suggested it somewhere begin January.
I don't really agree with that assessment. This thread was the first to suggest Griselbrand in a traditional reanimator shell (as far as I know) and it always had a clear plan.
TinFins was always designed to use Griselbrand as a Bargain. This deck is different - it's like traditional reanimator, but redesigned to maximise the incredible benefits Emrakul and Griselbrand have when they attack. They've converged to some degree, but so has traditional reanimator! It's running Lotus Petal also.
Even the TinFins versions with Force have a fundamentally different gameplan - they're still trying to combo-kill in one turn.
NLR is sweet and didn't see the play it deserved. I still think it's a fine choice and showcases awesome interactions with Stifle, but personally would prefer to play TinFins at this point.
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
Here's a deck that's clearly not TinFins and is much closer to traditional reanimator.
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=10397&iddeck=75822
Reanimator - Charles Jérémy 1st place out of 64
Creatures [16]
1 Angel of Despair
1 Anger
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Laquatus's Champion
1 Magister Sphinx
1 Thraximundar
4 Griselbrand
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Instants [8]
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
Sorceries [16]
4 Buried Alive
4 Exhume
4 Faithless Looting
4 Reanimate
Enchantments [4]
4 Animate Dead
Artifacts [4]
4 Lotus Petal
Lands [12]
1 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
2 Badlands
4 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Pithing Needle
2 Phyrexian Obliterator
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Blazing Archon
2 Defense Grid
4 Through the Breach
He won a 70-man tournament some time ago with Mono black reanimator with a similar build, but that was pre-Griselbrand. I'm not sure what some of the fatties do, honestly, but there are some fantastic interactions between those guys.
Funny how Buried Alive -> Hateflayer, Magister Sphinx and Anger, followed by a reanimation spell, actually instantly beats infinite life.
Actually Hateflayer needs to be in play for it's ability to work. Thus it doesn't work as an insta kill, but yes is still pretty good. :-P
I think this works like Tinfins/Oozing where you pull out a G-man from the grave then find a crazy combo kill. I can see a LOT of possible paths to 20 damage with this deck.
Magister Sphinx can also act like this deck's Children of Korlis - an additional D7 from the graveyard. Pretty cool that it can beat someone up in two turns.
I'm not saying that deck isn't cool, .Ix, but I think it belongs in the traditional reanimator thread - not here.
This thread is about instant speed reanimations of Griselbrand (and Emrakul). It's different from TinFins which goes for a same-turn combo win. Instead, this deck aims to win by card advantage, usually a draw 7-14 to power up FoW and a 2nd reanimate on the following turn.
Though Tin Fins and NLR share a fair amount of similarities, their plan is indeed different (and nonetheless defined).
I'm quite impressed with the Tin Fins list both in terms of consistancy and sheer speed. So few mulligans so far for such brokeness...
NLR is more comparable to regular Reanimator, relying on a wider cantrip base to warrant its turn 2 Reanimation.
I'm also quite interested at Tin Fins as its thread now is mainstream and some pretty neat propositions arise there. As a first benefit, I think Teferi's Realm would fit much more easily in NLR with a 16 Lands (+3 Petals) manabase than in Tin Fins with 13 (and 4 Petals), and 2 Decay would be more what I'd like to have at best out of the SB in NLR.
Last edited by OrGy; 03-25-2013 at 07:38 AM.
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