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Thread: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

  1. #21
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    Re: [Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    Shifting DDay away from LED-based combo to FoW-based combo (makes the deck feel like a Legacy port of a Vintage list, which is pretty cool) is certainly pretty interesting. Initially, I feel like it's just worse than the three Burning Wish LED Doomsday list lejay tuned (bless his heart) and two other popular forms of Fow-based combo (Spiral Tide, Sneak and Show), although I feel like I could be proven wrong; in comparison with the latter, the deck does have less dead cards, greater digging power due to Sensei's Divining Top, less susceptibility to Wasteland, and runs an equal quantity of countermagic and is a full turn faster than the former, but certainly seems more fragile than either (esp. the former) and definitely less explosive than the latter. Not the worst $5 I've ever spent.
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  2. #22
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    Re: [Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    Stephen is running this deck, now live on SCG stream. He' 4-0 or 3-1 right now, don't know. Smooth plays for what i've seen.

  3. #23

    Re: [Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    I believe he's 5-0 now. The deck wins by a Brainstorm+FoW/Pact+Mental Note+Lab Man+Unearth pile which requires to pass (and an SDT in play or draw spell in hand).

  4. #24
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    Re: [Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    To get this straight, what you're looking for is to cast and win with Doomsday on turn3 by building a pile like this:

    Gitaxian Probe
    Mental Note
    x (gets binned)
    Maniac (gets binned)
    Unearth

    Post Doomsday it wins with just UB in the pool. After Unearthing Maniac, you pop a SDT or Probe ftw. In case you've got UUB post Doomsday, you can also win with Brainstorm or Ponder. Of course, you will need to draw into you pile in the first place. So you basically need a way to draw into the pile (+ optional draw to win right away) plus UB mana.
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

  5. #25
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    Re: [Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    So his main win pile is not only susceptible to countermagic, but also to creature removal and graveyard removal?
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  6. #26
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    Re: [Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    Quote Originally Posted by kicks_422 View Post
    So his main win pile is not only susceptible to countermagic, but also to creature removal and graveyard removal?
    Yes, the first point (susceptibility to countermagic) a tad greater due to the majority of piles (an estimation of mine with limited testing, though it's certainly not an overwhelming majority) being pass-the-turn ones; keep in mind, the deck's playing twelve (eleven pre-final turn) counterspells, seven (six pre-final turn) of them free, and you can certainly craft piles that, say, include Pact and/or intend on passing two or more post-DD turns to play around potential countermagic. Grave hate and removal can all be played around without an extreme amount of difficulty, as well. It's also not just his main win pile, it's his only win pile.
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  7. #27
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    Re: [Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    That's what it says in the opening post. But thanks for brining it up again. As mentioned, I'm least worried about creature removal, as a single SDT can counter it. The amount of countermagic this deck runs is absurd, so there's a pretty good chance of winning counterwars.

    I didn't get to test this deck a lot. Time/Experience will tell whether the amount of countermagic can outweight vulnerability to opposing countermagic. Playing around Graveyard hate requires two more colorless mana post Doomsday which seems doable. I like Parcher's approach of adding Counterbalance. Maybe something like -2 Misdirection -2 Divert might do.
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

  8. #28

    Re: [Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    Quote Originally Posted by kicks_422 View Post
    So his main win pile is not only susceptible to countermagic, but also to creature removal and graveyard removal?
    But thats the thing with Doomsday... You can make your pile whatever it needs to be for you to win.

    While there might be a default pile that wins through your opponent not interacting with you at all, you have the option of changing it to make sure you win through whatever they might have.

  9. #29
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    Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    Yes, in LED builds that have multiple avenues of victory (e.g. Tendrils of Agony straight up, with a Chain of Vapor in the pile, double Doomsday, etc). But to have this as his only win pile feels fragile to me.

    But hey, what do I know. It's his deck.
    The Source: Your Source for "The Source: Your Source for..." cliche.

  10. #30
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    Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    I hadn't purchased the article because I had to cancel my credit card recently, but I feel like I should commend the author for attempting to write what I can only assume was an extensive text. To take a stab at inventing a deck that incorporates Doomsday and write a primer for a deck with Doomsday in it takes a lot of work--the established Legacy Doomsday list is just as complex and would take just as much effort to write a primer for if anyone had the time/balls to do it (I tried).

  11. #31

    Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    There is no single pile for this deck either.

    You hard cast the Maniac if you even get a whiff that they may have graveyard hate.


    There are dozens of piles, although there are 3 or 4 you use most of the time. There is not really a "standard pile," since it varies so much. I cover the various DDay piles in my article.

    My favorite pile is the Dark Confidant pile. It's by far the coolest pile.

    I won my round one match, game 3, when my opponent had Gaddock Teeg, Ethersworn Cannonist and Tormods Crypt in play. This deck is very resilient. Bolts and Plows are an obvious reason this deck banks on Misd etc

    Note: The one thing that I updated last night that is different from the list in the article is that I added Spellskites to the sideboard. They were amazing. I'll see of EC can send out an updated version this week.

  12. #32

    Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    ^ Tournament report? Free maybe?

  13. #33
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    Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    Not a bad read. Definitely worth a 5 spot.


    I like and dislike at the same time. It's a trade off from the older versions. A better manabase by far and a simpler stack at the cost of a slower, but more versatile version. It does dodge hate decently that is normally directed at these types of decks, but I do wonder if people can deal with it since the normal dead cards become useful all of a sudden.


    BTW, how did he do in the tournament?

  14. #34
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    Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    18 points out of 9 rounds 6-3

  15. #35

    Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    I'm really interested in the deck and I'm definitely going to buy the article cause its awesome that someone writes such extensive and detailed articles about Legacy.
    But the one thing I'm a bit afraid of is the recent rise of Counterbalance decks. Hows the matchup against CB? Is it a good idea to run such a Combo deck with that many CB decks around?

  16. #36
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    Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    It's easy to make 33 pages when you say the same thing 2 or 3 times.
    CLICK HERE FOR THE RULES OF A VERY FUN MULTIPLAYER CASUAL FORMAT
    You very likely can build it without spending any money, just out of what you already have.

    An example with my (very large) list in a visual form

  17. #37

    Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    And include half page pictures of that same thing 10 times.
    I don't feel like I learned anything from the article. The idea is interesting but I dont see how this deck is better than other DD lists. It provides a different protection package in counters and wins differently but it's still the same.

    Also, he mentions it's a one card combo, two when he includes Dark Ritual to cast Doomsday. What about the two cards he needs to draw into the pile and another to win? One can be replaced by a pass the turn but that's still a 3 card combo!
    2 mana piles also seems wrong. Every pile needs 2 draws, those don't cost mana? SDT allows you to cast it another turn and Probe replaces it with 2 life but saying 2 draw, 2 mana seems weird.

    Could it become a good deck? Sure, it might. But it doesn't seem to be better than the current DD lists when played properly. The only benefit it has is the manabase which I haven't had much issues with in DD anyway.

  18. #38

    Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    The main advantage of Doomsday over other Legacy combo decks -- whether they be Show and Tell variants or what not -- is that it is a one card combo to initiate the combo process: all you have to do is resolve Doomsday. Show and Tell decks require you to put other cards in hand. Same with High Tide. Because of that advantage, Dday decks can be much more streamlined and efficient, and can have alot more counter-protection.

    That's why I believe Dday can be not only the top Combo deck in the format, but one of the best decks in the format period. This Dday deck has almost none of the weaknesses of the Tendrils Dday decks, while being much easier to play, but exposes itself, very slightly, to other forms of hate. I've built this deck to mitigate those.

    I'd rather play a heavy UB deck with lots of great blue countermagic and an impervious mana base than a 4c Dday deck with a sketchy mana base and no countermagic.

    This deck takes its cue and its inspiration from my Vintage Doomsday deck, but it took me months upon months to develop and tune this deck from all of the various permutations I tried. I think the final product is more than worth it, and I hope you agree.

  19. #39

    Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    Smmenen, you're looking at this the wrong way. It's not 2c vs 4c or countermagic vs chants/discard, it's 0 Black Lotus vs 4 Black Lotus. Why are you playing a deck with less than 4 Black Lotus?
    BZK! - Storm Boards

    Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
    Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.

  20. #40

    Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays – The Legacy Doomsday Device Primer

    I could say the same thing about Force of Will. I just think my deck is better, as well, both against the field and in a head to head matchup against Tendrils Doomsday. I don't think the latter is even close.

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