Having trouble with removal of goyfs. Any way to get a dude off the board? I'm trying cribswap now.
I do like Etched Champion more now. Is fun with mox, chalice, Legionnaire, and veteran's armaments. The equipment is sweet. You don't care for multiple Fields since it auto-equips any soldier that hits play and can be dropped for free from cost reducers. Great to hit off a ringleader, too. Cute trick of removing your own guy with cribswap and having the token trigger multiple equipments for a block.
I prefer field md because the effect stacks and multiple orbs do nothing. 1 field nerfs drs, top, and more importantly delays wastelands. This has allowed me to resolve spells trough tempo decks with taxing counters if I don't have a cavern and also preserves the cavern I do have in play. I may supplement the taxing strategy with an orb.
Damping matrix is good vs elves because it stops card draw engines, quirion ranger, and drs (no it is not a mana ability because drs targets). Combined with holy light that should be a solid board vs them. I like it as another way to cut off jitte, too. Wing Shards is not as consistent since they can top deck a NO.
Trying to work in a kor skyfisher or two. Card is nuts at getting CA. Replay ringleader and then use preeminent captain to cheat in a newly drawn soldier into play or pick up captain of the watch and replay it or cheat him in with preeminent captain. Skyfisher could be a useful sb card vs sweepers and CA decks like shardless.
First Strike Lord.Originally Posted by snorlaxcom
Soldier Stompy
You can also play more Gustcloak Saviors. With Savior in play you can attack with impunity and not worry about taking hits, which is very useful if you want to attack with, say, Preeminent Captain but don't want it to die to a Goyf/Batterskull blocker, and/or you don't want their Batterskull to gain them life while you attack. With Savior in play you can let Preeminent Captain do his thing without worrying about it dying.
Additionally, you can try (as I have in the past) guys like Kor Hookmaster and Azorius Arrester. They can tap a Goyf down while you attack, and additionally work as a pseudo-ORing vs. SneaknShow.
I haven't played the deck in a few weeks, and I did not play the deck at the local open. Fear not, I will be working on an a new list and see if we can make some more BANG.
Soldier Stompy
Hello,
Lavinia is only half a Suppression Field vs SDT. The opponent just put it on top of his/her library in response, can terminus your Lavinia, etc... and replay it next turn.
If he/she has some mana, he may even put on the pile the scry trigger, then draw trigger, then scry trigger again if replay top is not needed.
I don't think that we can compare Lavinia with Suppression Field. Suppression Field doesn't stop Angel tokens and not really planeswalkers too.
Moreover, the point was to compare Lavinia and Captain of the Watch and explain why I find Lavinia > Captain of the watch. Yes, opponent can response with SDT + Terminus, it's the same for Captain of the watch except that the opponent has to respond immediately with SDT on Lavinia's ability instead of wait the right moment, and pray to find a Terminus.
I just read the thread today and saw you repeated several time that Lavinia is good against miracles, mentionning that it shuts down SDT, which is plain wrong. I never tested the deck, which looks interesting, so I don't know at all if Lavinia is good or not and should be played over CotW, I just wanted to tell that this particular argument, which you repeated in 2-3 posts "Lavinia is good vs miracle because it shuts down SDT", was flawed.
Otherwise, to know if the card should be play, I believe that the thread users should believe you more than me, as you tested it and I didn't. But for the right reasons :)
Hey guys, I've been testing this a bit off and on (thinking about taking it to GP New Jersey) and the new card High Sentinels of Arashin has actually been pretty surprisingly effective for me in testing.
Some reasons:
a.) It's the most efficient 3/4 or bigger Flying Soldier in the game. 3W is not cheap by any means but in an Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors deck with Banneret effects and Preeminent Captain it's not bad at all. Gustcloak Savior is 4W for the same body but often is much harder to cast because that 1 extra mana means so much. 3W is so much easier to come by in this deck as you have it pretty early usually (Sol-Land + 2 Plains or Sol-Land + Plains + Mox).
b.) It blocks and kills flipped Delver and lives. Very few other Soldiers can claim to do that. This deck absolutely struggles heavily against early flipped Delver, and this is at least one not-atrocious answer.
c.) It can fly over blockers that the other Soldiers would struggle with. This deck often runs into scenarios wherein you need to do like 4-5 more damage to win but the opponent has finally landed some blockers or something like a Moat. This will close the deal much better than anything else you would run because of flying.
d.) Lastly, it's activated ability is sometimes relevant despite being generally overcosted. Think of the ability as "3W: Put a 2/2 Soldier token into play" because the Sentinels get +1/+1 for each +1/+1 counter in play, and the soldier you are targeting gets +1/+1 too, so essentially it generates 2 power and 2 toughness at instant speed for 3W. You don't want to be doing this early in the game but sometimes you have alot of mana in play mid/late-game and not much in your hand to spend it on, and this can act as a mana sink in those situations and provide some element of inevitability for an opponent who can't get it off the battlefield.
Oh, OK your right for SDT, I'm maybe too excited by Lavinia ^_^.
@MGB:
=> Kor Skyfisher kill flipped Delver, cost only 2 and combo with Recruiter/Lavinia/Captain of the Watch/Lands...b.) It blocks and kills flipped Delver and lives. Very few other Soldiers can claim to do that. This deck absolutely struggles heavily against early flipped Delver, and this is at least one not-atrocious answer.
High Sentinels of Arashin: sure that it's a great card. I personnally prefer Commander Eesha because it can stop card like Tarmogoyf and can attack planeswalker without fear any blockers like Baleful Strix, but I completely understand people that play Sentinels.
You can't even compare Skyfisher to High Sentinels. 2/3 is soooo much different than 3/4. Blocking Delver without dying, attacking a 3-counter Jace, not dying to Lightning Bolt, etc. Additionally, High Sentinels is Abrupt Decay-proof. And the Skyfisher drawback (return permanent) is just terrible for tempo. I would never consider a card like Skyfisher.
So I saw Sam Black derp around with this deck and I seemed to like it a lot. I've been a big fan of Chalice decks for some time and this seems tons of fun. It also can be a turn faster than Death&Taxes which I actually like. Turn 1 Chalice or Thalia seems right up my ally.
My list, rough and open for critique. Sorry for no tags, on my phone :(
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Enlistment Officer
4 Preeminemt Captain
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Daru Warchief
3 Captain of the Watch
2 Longbow Archer
1 Brimaz, King of Oreos
1 Commander Eesha
1 Gustcloak Savior
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Suppression Field
9 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Wasteland
2 Karakas
1 City of Traitors
Sideboard
3 Banishing Light
3 Holy Light
3 Rest in Peace
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Magus of the Moat
1 Aven Cloudchaser
1 Wasteland
So...some explanations.
No Ballyrush is a concession to Delver. I wanted something a hit more tangible than cost reduction and more sturdy than a 2/1 with no other abilities. The WW cost for Longbow Archer seems egregious for the deck, but with more reliance of colored mana than other Chalice Argo decks I think it's okay.
I REALLY considered High Sentinels. But since we have no other way to put counters on our guys and with his ability costing lots more under Field, I shyed away. Gustcloak can stalemate big monsters and, more importantly, Goyf. Note that Goyf isn't a big menance as much as it used to be, but it's still a thing.
Mindcensor plays so well with Field and Thalia that I just had to play it.
So Magus of the Moat. First things first, I know it's not a Solider, but it's a human and a large chunk of our guys are humans. Cavern plays nice here--but honestly, this is the solution for Elves. Actual Moat or Ghostly Prision or a tax enchantment or any artifact is open to Decay and , more importantly with enchantments, Rec Sage. Magus trumps all of that. Decay proof, Sage proof. We have flyers with Eesha, Savior, and even Mindcensor. When they actually can't attack, we won. Who cares about our guys not attacking. Who cares if they Glimpse their face off. Got a way to beat Magus?
Are you DaPokPok on MTGO? Someone with that name has been doing pretty well in the Legacy dailies.
I actually *just* noticed Longbow Archer in that list and tried it out a little bit and have been pleasantly surprised at how effective it is vs. Delver decks. This deck would often die to early flipped Delvers even if it stabilizes the board, so having something that can block Delvers and is relatively cheap in terms of mana... is very useful. I can't believe I never noticed this card before, as I have scoured the list of Soldiers in Magic many times over in the past 3+ years.
I'm actually playing 4 Longbow Archers in my list now in addition to the 2 High Sentinels of Arashin and 1 Gustcloak Savior, which gives me 7 ways to block Delver profitably.
RE: Your list...
- Every time I try playing Wasteland in this deck I absolutely hate it. Not only the dis-synergy with Suppression Field but this deck just wants to be casting something with all of its mana nearly every turn, and not wasting lands to go 1-for-1 on opponent's lands. Just my opinion from playtesting.
- I can understand playing extra lands that have utility beyond tapping for mana however. I've been experimenting with Horizon Canopy as a 2-of in place of 2 non-land cards, as it can provide much needed white mana and then cycle away later in the game when not needed.
- I never liked Aven Mindcensor in any deck. I understand what its purpose is - hose fetchlands like Suppression Field - but I always found the "top 4" clause to be too beneficial to the opponent, and the effect overall is too redundant with Suppression Field. And obviously, it is not a Soldier.
- I don't really understand the Holy Light in the sideboard. I guess you're targeting Elves, Pyromancer and TNN with this? Seems a bit too specialized for my tastes. I've recently been testing Containment Priest as a 4-of in the sideboard as it can do multiple duty as hate for Elves (hoses GSZ+NO), Sneak'n'Show, Reanimator, and Dredge. Alongside Damping Matrix and Chalice it makes the Elves matchup more manageable. Has Holy Light been really solid for you in testing, though? I've never actually played it in any deck.
- Do you find the Pro:Creatures ability of Commander Eesha valuable? Because I would play High Sentinels of Arashin over Eesha pretty much all the time, because 3W is easier to cast than 2WW and the 3/4 body is much more valuable than the 2/4 body. Additionally, the token-making ability, while bad with Suppression Field, can randomly provide inevitability in the late-game when you are top-decking and have tons of mana open.
- I definitely like Magus of the Moat as a silver bullet against Elves - they simply cannot answer it in any way, as 90%+ of Elves lists have no way to answer a 4cc non-artifact, non-enchantment creature. But again, isn't it a bit too specialized for one matchup? Is there any other matchup where it comes in? I would probably play 1-2 in my sideboard if I had the room, though.
- How effective has Suppression Field been for you? I vacillate over its effectiveness. Alot of times, as I have said before in this thread, it either comes down early and blows them out or just sits there almost like a blank as they fetch in response and gladly pay 2 mana for their Jace/Lili/Stoneforge/Vial. I actually prefer playing with Winter Orb in the maindeck instead of Field as it often does the same thing (slow down the opponent) but affects them all the way into the late-game no matter how many lands they have in play. And with Winter Orb, you can play it mid-game/late-game when they're tapped out and affect them reactively. With Suppression Field, you almost have to cast it Turn1/Turn2 for it to be very effective. Topdecked Suppression Field kind of sucks, whereas topdecked Winter Orb can often be quite a shock for most opponents.
Dapokpok is not on this forum. His name is Tristan Polzl and he posts as Pokpok on french forums.
He worked a lot on soldiers lately and benefited from my suggestions like I worked on sylvan plug and benefited from his help as we often discuss deckbuilding.
CLICK HERE FOR THE RULES OF A VERY FUN MULTIPLAYER CASUAL FORMAT
You very likely can build it without spending any money, just out of what you already have.
An example with my (very large) list in a visual form
Magus, while being the nail in the coffin for Elves, would be very good in matchups where they play lots of creatures but have no removal for troublesome permanents. Example: Dredge. Most lists I've seen don't play a huge amount of creature removal outside of, say, Darkblast...sometimes. They would have to solely rely on Threshold-ed Putrid Imps and Narcos to do us in, and if they have to rely on those for victory we are probably going to win anyways. Speaking from experience, Manaless would be different because some builds (like my old one last summer) played Sickening Shoal mainboard to deal with DRS. It would probably be ok, perhaps to slow, against Goblins. Tempo decks with Bolt are a no-no. Merfolk for sure, if they are not playing Dismember...which I think it's a gamble if they are or aren't. It's worth it for the 1-2 slots anyways.
The lack of a full grip of Wastelands seems okay for me, I may shave 1 and replace it with...I don't know Flagstones or something. I rarely ever use it. You can really start denying mana with Field and it. But I understand your trepidation about it for sure.
Longbow Archers has been a super little guy! What a nice unknown find this was! Nice against Delver AND is a clock. :D
To each their own with Mindcensor. I like it, but it's not a major pillar in the deck. I'm sure you can cut it and shave some numbers for a lord or something.
I never understood why Damping Matrix was the be all, end all against Elves. I've found Magus WAY more effective. So they can't activate Symbiote, Ranger, and 2 abilities on Deathrite, but they can still make a ton of mana with Heritage Druid et al and still Glimpse their faces off and Natural Order for Hoof. It's also Decay and Sage fodder. It's more like a minor speed bump than a hate card, IMO. Chalice for sure is leagues better. Going forward, if Elves is still a very popular thing, we really need to make sure our hate can past the Decay test, Sage test, and longevity test. Magus does all 3: Can't get Decayed, cant' get Sage-ed, and is a problem if left for a long time.
Commander Eesha has been really nice. Consider it a 2nd copy for Gustcloak if you will, and that it can fend off lots of things with ease. High Sentinels has been on my watch list for some time.
As for Winter Orb vs Suppression Field: I understand both situations but consider this: A Jace player plays Jace and sits on your Winter Orb and exiles your deck. Now what? Haven't you already lost if Jace hits anyways, regardless of the card you use? And if we want to continuously be attacking with big dudes, under Orb, we get 1 attack in and can't augment our board by playing more stuff....Not a fan, but I see the argument and respect your opinion. If it works for you, do it.
Holy Light is for the non-white X/1 decks. It's enough of the meta to warrant 3 spots. We loose our Thalias, but I kill their TNNs. I'll take it.
4 Containment Priests seems a bit much...are the decks you listed a problem for you in local meta?
I am still astonished there is any consideration about playing Suppression Field. I just don't understand what cases you could find that you would not want a field... More the slowing your opponent down and hindering their progression it can win you the game. MODO doesn't do this deck justice, as I have had multiple people get 2+ GRV per match from Field alone.
I really like the list I have been playing for month, clean and simple. I respect others opinions but testing this style of deck on MODO doesn't give accurate results.
Soldier Stompy
Hello everyone, i just register myself to provide some explains to my soldier list. So it might apear using my name, i'm Dapokpok on mtgo or pokpok on french website.
To be honnest i'm not sure this deck is good, i mean the deck is great if you don't struggle on mana source flooded or screwed. But it still had some huge problem facing an all-answer opponent like force chalice, threat, removal to stop you in early then just win because they had more active spell than you or because you are dead at this point (agaisnt UR delver for example).
So first of all, my last list
4 Suppression Field
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Wasteland
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Preeminent Captain
4 Captain of the Watch
9 Plains
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Gustcloak Savior
3 Daru Warchief
4 Enlistment Officer
1 City of Traitors
2 Karakas
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 High Sentinels of Arashin
2 Kor Firewalker
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 3 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 2 Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 Dawnbringer Charioteers
SB: 2 Tower of the Magistrate
SB: 2 Holy Light
SB: 1 Revoke Existence
This list is close compare to the one post by Sam Black on scg, some change were include. But i will start with beginning. The prison shell, cause if no one spit on thalia or chalice in this deck, there is some different trial on the use of suppression field or different prison 2-drop. At this point i just can't imagine playing winter orb in a deck that cast 4cc spell, when most of opponent cast 1cc spell, okay suppression field isn't great against UR delver, but it can provide you free win, and be a win condition or the right answer when opponent rely on top or vial to beat you.
Now i will explain my choice on creature, first of all the cut of ballyrush and field marshall, i wasn't exalted in the idea on playing a bad aggro deck with defensive strategy like the one provide by field marshall, and first strike ability seems really redoundant to me when 12 of you best soldiers already have it. Ballyrush run in the same idea of overextend yourself, die to pyroclasm do nothing agaisnt delver, die to pyromancer token. I keep playing daru warchief, cause this boy defend yourself against engineered plague, dread of night, pyroclasm.
Back to low cost creatures, by cutting field marshall and ballyrush, the deck goes really low on early threats, main problem appear to be the lack of good soldier using 1W as mana cost, same problem with 2W cost, because i couldn't find answer to this problem i had to change my request, that's why i use to play longbow archer, and now testing kor firewalker. At this point i'm not sure kor firewalker is the one this deck need, but deckbuilding is still open.
travel to 3cc creatures, field marshall leaving the deck, i use to search for some remplacement cause there was a huge hole in the curve after that, i wasn't able to find another usefull soldier. Brimaz was an option and honnestly i didn't test him, because he can't beat batterskull and because his cost might be annoying for a 3cc creature. Here we are with the only non soldier creature of the deck, quite a weird choice, but i really need some anwer to an early delver when i cast chalice, and opponent locked up. He just had to push his 3/2 flying to victory, which is really annoying no offense to the one who think swiftspear is the best one drop in the format. And elves isn't a good match, maybe you can notice it with the presence of magus of the moat in sideboard, who was there just to provide some solution agaisnt elves, before censor, you couldn't expect a win against such a resilient deck like elves, they just tutor for reclamation sage or NO with some fetched dryad and visionnary, now you can say you have an option against elves, chalice for one and censor, is praticaly game over for elve even post sideboard.
I still think this deck need some bolt proof hatedelver creature, that's why i'm playing the great high sentinelle and the tricky gustcloak, those two provide victory or get countered or removed. Which is a sign of a good card to my mind.
Now some add on manabase, common list use to play 18 lands, with no waste or no karakas, with 22 lands, this list is quite heavy on mana source. First of all, wasteland, for some the disynergy between waste and field is to big to be avoid. But to me, these cards complete each other, field is great when opponent had his fetchland, and poor when he has his dual, field delay opponent game plan by pressuring his mana base, so do waste, and these two works really well together, if you can waste the one non fetch land of an opponent even paying 3 mana, i promise it worth it. The only reason i don't play more waste is because i had to provide W mana for part of my game plan. And because agaisnt some deck you don't want chrome mox, that's also part of the reason you have 2 land in sideboard.
For sideboard, Oring i never face anyconfiguration where opponent trick my own ring and i had to ring my own card. To me these two cards are equal, play the one you like. Just some add, you can't play council's jugement, the card is really insane but WW non soldier, is something the deck can't afford consistently. That's the reason why i'm playing revoke existance over council.
Charioter, provide you a good game plan against UR or some other aggro strategy.
Tower, so far i always try to get some extra land in sideboard for match were i side out mox, i try some extra karakas, some wasteland, but with the rebirth of stoneforge strategy this card is huge, it decline when nemesis was printed, but if your opponent can assemblate nemesis and equipement i think you have already lose. And having some solution against SFM T2 is really nice.
Holy light, part of the strategy against UR, with chalice in play their main plan if they can't find smash is to get pyromancer and start making and army. it also provide solution agaisnt nemesis and give some help against elves.
Rip, thorn and null rod don't need description i think.
The deck is decent, but it's a high variance deck like all non-blue deck in the format, you can die because you find 5 land in a row or just because there wasn't your third mana source in the top4 cards. If you can avoid this problem the deck is correct against most of the current metagame, worst delver version run away (bug delver), shardless isn't anymore in top table
I won't appologyze for my poor english, but if you have some question, or add i will try to answer it.
It's as simple as this:
Suppression Field is card disadvantage when you play it - i.e. it costs you a card and does nothing else beyond its taxing of opponent's activated abilities. So in order for it to be valuable at all, you absolutely *must* force multiple payments from its taxing effect. Here are the circumstances under which Field is usually played;
- If you affect *zero* abilities (not that uncommon - you play it on the draw on turn 2, for example, when opponent has already played a fetch or two and he just fetches in response to the Field being cast, and then has 1-2 more non-fetch lands in his hand) and opponent plays around it, you essentially have cast a blank card.
- If you only affect *one* ability (i.e. 2 mana) you are only even on tempo and still down 1 on card advantage, because you spent 1W to cast the Field.
- If you affect *two* abilities (4 mana) you are +2 mana on tempo and still down 1 on card advantage, which is better than the above two cases but extremely mediocre as a play in Legacy. Paying 2 mana to extract 4 mana from your opponent is barely better than playing a Spell Pierce that your opponent paid mana to waive.
- If you affect *three or more* abilities (6+ mana) you are +4 or more mana on tempo, down 1 on card advantage, but doing better by further affecting your opponent's mana curve. At this point Suppression Field actually becomes valuable, and only at this point.
Think about the gamut of Legacy decks you will face. It's pretty hard to guarantee three or more payments forced from a Field just by the very nature of the spell - it costs 1W and doesn't always come down early in the game. And when you are on the draw, you basically have to hope that your opponent topdecks more fetchlands and never topdecks normal lands, AND you have to hope your opponent is playing things like Deathrite Shaman or Jace or Stoneforge Mystic to further extract value from Field. And even then, later in the game, when they do have Jace or Stoneforge in play, and you have a field in play, the Field does *not* outright stop them from using those cards. If they have enough mana, they will gladly pay 2 more to use their powerful cards. Does it trouble them that much that they have to pay 3W to get their Batterskull rather than 1W? Or that Jace costs 2UU + 2 x #Turns rather than just 2UU? A little bit, but the power of these cards is such that even when they cost a little bit more, they can still wreck your day.
Jesus Christ are you actually trying to justify the idea of card advantage / disadvantage in a Chalice deck? Every time I get to slam a Field one T1 watch my opponent stumble as they die. There is no way I would consider cutting the card.
Soldier Stompy
The key to understanding Winter Orb, in my mind, is that if you play 4 Ancient Tombs and 2+ City of Traitors, and 4 Chrome Moxen, you have ample ways to break the symmetry of the Orb in your favor. When they are untapping only 1 mana per turn, you are getting 2+ mana from your sources often.
Of course, Orb is not that great vs. low mana curve decks like Delver and the like, but it is surprisingly active even in those matchups. It is only truly bad vs. decks like Belcher, Dredge, and decks that have an active AEther Vial in play.
And of course, vs. mana-intensive decks such as Miracles, it is actually better than Suppression Field by a wide margin and is often the one card that enables you to beat that deck so easily. Winter Orb is simply the bane of Miracles' (or any other mana-heavy deck like Stoneblade, or Lands, or BUG Control) existence.
I agree with you that Field Marshal is suboptimal when most of these Soldiers already have first strike (Thalia, Preeminent, Enlistment, etc). Daru Warchief's +1/+2 is definitely valuable and its second benefit of reducing cost is extremely useful as well. I would never play less than 3 Warchiefs in this deck!Now i will explain my choice on creature, first of all the cut of ballyrush and field marshall, i wasn't exalted in the idea on playing a bad aggro deck with defensive strategy like the one provide by field marshall, and first strike ability seems really redoundant to me when 12 of you best soldiers already have it. Ballyrush run in the same idea of overextend yourself, die to pyroclasm do nothing agaisnt delver, die to pyromancer token. I keep playing daru warchief, cause this boy defend yourself against engineered plague, dread of night, pyroclasm.
Ballyrush however is surprisingly underrated - he can make 4cc stuff come down a turn earlier and make 1W guys come out in multiples. I would hesitate to cut these as the cost-reducing element of this deck is one that gives it the ability to cast big expensive creatures even when Preeminent Captain is not in play.
Have you considered playing Jotun Grunt maindeck? I play two of these. You can't play too many but 1-2 seems like the right number. They are a big body for a cheap cost and they have the secondary benefit of both shrinking Tarmogoyfs and stalling opponent's Treasure Cruises.Back to low cost creatures, by cutting field marshall and ballyrush, the deck goes really low on early threats, main problem appear to be the lack of good soldier using 1W as mana cost, same problem with 2W cost, because i couldn't find answer to this problem i had to change my request, that's why i use to play longbow archer, and now testing kor firewalker. At this point i'm not sure kor firewalker is the one this deck need, but deckbuilding is still open.
Also, I've been intrigued by playing Kor Skyfisher in this deck. The drawback isn't nearly as bad as you think if you can bounce stuff like Enlistment Officer for value or just bounce stuff like City of Traitors to replay for 2 more mana when you don't have a land in your hand.
Additionally, I've had success with Porcelain Legionnaire to some extent. He's really a 2 mana creature because you can cast him for 2 life + 2 colorless, and even cast him off one Sol-Land.
Chalice of the Void is very good against elves but you are correct in stating that it is still not a good matchup because they have so many good ways to find Reclamation Sage to destroy it.travel to 3cc creatures, field marshall leaving the deck, i use to search for some remplacement cause there was a huge hole in the curve after that, i wasn't able to find another usefull soldier. Brimaz was an option and honnestly i didn't test him, because he can't beat batterskull and because his cost might be annoying for a 3cc creature. Here we are with the only non soldier creature of the deck, quite a weird choice, but i really need some anwer to an early delver when i cast chalice, and opponent locked up. He just had to push his 3/2 flying to victory, which is really annoying no offense to the one who think swiftspear is the best one drop in the format. And elves isn't a good match, maybe you can notice it with the presence of magus of the moat in sideboard, who was there just to provide some solution agaisnt elves, before censor, you couldn't expect a win against such a resilient deck like elves, they just tutor for reclamation sage or NO with some fetched dryad and visionnary, now you can say you have an option against elves, chalice for one and censor, is praticaly game over for elve even post sideboard.
I've found that playing Damping Matrix post-board slows them down a lot, and now that Containment Priest has been printed, I can play this guy in my sideboard for Show n Tell and *also* bring it in for the Elves matchup. 4 Chalice, 3-4 Damping Matrix and 4 Containment Priest (stopping Green Suns Zenith and Natural Order) provide enough of a threat density to adequately slow Elves down, imho.
I really like High Sentinels and in my version with Winter Orb instead of Field, the +1/+1 ability is surprisingly relevant as well.I still think this deck need some bolt proof hatedelver creature, that's why i'm playing the great high sentinelle and the tricky gustcloak, those two provide victory or get countered or removed. Which is a sign of a good card to my mind.
Interesting conclusions. I simply have never liked Wasteland in this deck because I feel that the deck wants to spend mana every turn on its own guys and not spend it kiling opponent's lands.Now some add on manabase, common list use to play 18 lands, with no waste or no karakas, with 22 lands, this list is quite heavy on mana source. First of all, wasteland, for some the disynergy between waste and field is to big to be avoid. But to me, these cards complete each other, field is great when opponent had his fetchland, and poor when he has his dual, field delay opponent game plan by pressuring his mana base, so do waste, and these two works really well together, if you can waste the one non fetch land of an opponent even paying 3 mana, i promise it worth it. The only reason i don't play more waste is because i had to provide W mana for part of my game plan. And because agaisnt some deck you don't want chrome mox, that's also part of the reason you have 2 land in sideboard.
Which decks do you feel Chrome Mox is bad against? I've never wanted to sideboard Moxen out as they give this deck explosiveness and then the card disadvantage can often be recuperated by Enlistment Officer later in the game.
Another reason why I like Damping Matrix in the sideboard - it shuts down Stoneforge Mystic pretty hard because the only thing they can do with Mystic at that point is to fetch Batterskull and then hardcast it for 5 mana.For sideboard, Oring i never face anyconfiguration where opponent trick my own ring and i had to ring my own card. To me these two cards are equal, play the one you like. Just some add, you can't play council's jugement, the card is really insane but WW non soldier, is something the deck can't afford consistently. That's the reason why i'm playing revoke existance over council.
Charioter, provide you a good game plan against UR or some other aggro strategy.
Tower, so far i always try to get some extra land in sideboard for match were i side out mox, i try some extra karakas, some wasteland, but with the rebirth of stoneforge strategy this card is huge, it decline when nemesis was printed, but if your opponent can assemblate nemesis and equipement i think you have already lose. And having some solution against SFM T2 is really nice.
Thanks for all the input! Good luck with the deck and I hope you do well with it.Holy light, part of the strategy against UR, with chalice in play their main plan if they can't find smash is to get pyromancer and start making and army. it also provide solution agaisnt nemesis and give some help against elves.
Rip, thorn and null rod don't need description i think.
The deck is decent, but it's a high variance deck like all non-blue deck in the format, you can die because you find 5 land in a row or just because there wasn't your third mana source in the top4 cards. If you can avoid this problem the deck is correct against most of the current metagame, worst delver version run away (bug delver), shardless isn't anymore in top table
I won't appologyze for my poor english, but if you have some question, or add i will try to answer it.
There is no doubt that if you get the hand of Chrome Mox, land, Suppresion Field, and you are on the play, and your opponent has one or less normal lands in hand and the rest are fetchlands and he does not topdeck normal lands for several turns...
I was going to say that if all those conditions are met that Suppression Field is an auto-win card. Of course it is. But do you see all of those conditions that have to be met? How often do you get that in a game? Are you going to mulligan to Mox+Field+Land on the play every time? And even when you do, will your opponent only have fetchlands in hand?
You have to look at the effectiveness of cards in the totality of all the circumstances. It's not enough to look at one corner case and say "wow, it really blows X out of the water when I get this combo". If that were the case, we'd be playing stuff like Lorescale Coatl in our Delver decks because of those <10% of situations when you play Coatl then Brainstorm and Ponder right after that, instead of those 70%+ situations where you just topdeck Coatl without your cantrips in hand.
I look at Suppression Field like the Lorescale Coatl of this deck. Sure, it's SICK as hell in those <10% or even <20% of situations that I described. It will give you an easy auto-win and you're on to game 2. But how often does that happen vs. the number of situations where: a.) you are on the draw and opponent has one fetchland he already played and cracks in response to your field and goes on to play a normal land or two b.) you topdeck Field after turn 3-4 and your opponent has enough mana to just pay 2 more for that Stoneforge activation easily or c.) other such situations in which Field comes down later or your opponent simply does not have fetchlands / activated abilities to play after you resolve the Field or just flat-out has enough mana to pay for them easily
Also, it's funny that you mention card advantage in terms of Chalice of the Void - as if Chalice of the Void decks have to just accept the fact that they are going to go negative on card advantage. I don't think this is the case at all. Chalice of the Void creates *massive* virtual card advantage by stopping a whole portion of the opponent's deck. Generating card advantage and just being mindful of card advantage in general is certainly not out of line for a Chalice deck at all.
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