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Thread: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

  1. #701
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    I just want to quote one line from you, “redundant taxes.”

    Taxes stack. It seems like the world forgets that. That makes ivory tower better when you add six cards to your 7 card hand and makes rack digging better. All cards in the deck act as a resource because of scrol rack.

    And to touch on surgical: rest in piece. But I actually used to build with regard to meddling mage. That’s why there are similar cards like REB and pyroblast in my list. That said our card quality is strong so we do too deck we’ll. But by playing toolbox you are always open to drawing the wrong card at the wrong time. That’s where redundancy on key cards fits.

    Also to reiterate. The biggest strength of parfait is its ability to blank a lot of your opponents cards.
    Last edited by Weapon X; 11-13-2019 at 10:01 AM.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  2. #702

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    It's been a while since I last played but I feel trimming etutor is the way to go. When you get matched against a counterspell deck you often run out of things to jam. Daze is often a hard counter as we can either pay 1 and not be able to cast our threat or don't pay it and bet opp has no more counters. Karn seems like a good compromise as it's still a tutor but not card disadvantage. It's probably safe to play 2 of it main without needing ancient tomb.

    In today's meta I would also run 3 rip maindeck since you want it quite often on T2 without spending a tutor.

  3. #703
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    /snip
    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    /snip
    Thank you both for the insight. I have no problem admitting I know next to nothing about this particular archetype and was more or less posting initial reactions to modern lists. There's no reason for me to have missed that Taxes stack but there you have it.

    I understand that adding U essentially is an admission you're trying to combo-off as fast as you can, which pushes the deck in a different direction. I'll put up a different list over the weekend with your comments in mind.
    Dreadstill

    "Control"(tr.v.): To exercise authoritative or dominating influence over; direct."

  4. #704

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt-Qc View Post
    It's been a while since I last played but I feel trimming etutor is the way to go. When you get matched against a counterspell deck you often run out of things to jam. Daze is often a hard counter as we can either pay 1 and not be able to cast our threat or don't pay it and bet opp has no more counters. Karn seems like a good compromise as it's still a tutor but not card disadvantage. It's probably safe to play 2 of it main without needing ancient tomb.

    In today's meta I would also run 3 rip maindeck since you want it quite often on T2 without spending a tutor.
    In my experience testing a non-parfait enchantments deck this seems accurate
    Playing so many cards that are minus-1 on resolution (tutor) is a risky proposition and I imagine it's very hard to dig yourself out of that hole if the opponent can disrupt your landtax engine

  5. #705

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Hello all. Since the MTGS thread is only Weapon X and me, thought I would post my current list and thinking. Have not parfaited for a while till recently, and I finally bought it out this week in a local FNM and it won me a foil oko (well a premium promo pack with the Oko in).

    Thoughts- always enjoyed R splash, but I am always prepared to drop sacred cows - I even dropped swords down to 1 and 2 when my meta became oddly full of nothing but Miracles.
    Anyway those days are gone.

    Thoughts on today
    (1) Oko is everywhere, so multiple answers to OKO are needed. Enchantments are at an all time high in terms of usability, artifacts less so. Humility is especially good.
    (2) Astrolabe is everywhere
    (3) Veil of summer is insanely good, but it is useless against us.
    (4)Blood moon is at an all time nadir- Astrolabe says - "so what?"
    (5) Bin removal is very strong now
    (6) walkers are at an all time high-karn gtc, teferi, oko

    The top combo decks are Depths, SnT, Storm, Dredge, Reanimator
    The top control decks are 4 c good stuff
    the beatdown decks are the usual crew minus dragon stompy as moon is just not pulling its weight.


    here is my list.
    I have tried a green rather than red splash

    Veil is nuts, and I have cut one orim's for it, giving 5 ways to force the combo through. This slightly helps the card disadvantage we suffer too, replacing itslelf and getting an effect in one form or other.

    I have put 3 city of traitors in, I used to have two and never regretted, it saves on fiddle border posts and brings the combo on earlier than they expect. It also can help manage the land count for land tax.
    Chalice is always an issue, I run 3 O ring effects main, and the cities help land those 4cc haymakers early, meaning I don't have as much at 1cc as I have in some other builds.

    My other green splash is a solitary sylvan, which can again grab some of our disadvantage back and there are a few shuffle effects.

    Karn is especially powerful, I use two, and wonder on a third. The only reason I do not have it is because I don't want to put too many eggs in one basket against revoker decks, but it means I never run out of helms if he is active and RIP is down. He also gives a massive wishboard to hurt OKo.
    He shuts off astrolabe, of course, but the main use is yet more combo material and even more versatile control, as well as animating chalice, giving 5 main deck ways of killing chalice.

    Abrupt decay/Trophy in response to the combo has been very prevalent in my meta, and Veil helps here. I literally know that in whatever ten-fifteen-twenty player event in whichever city I will face a couple of dnt where veil useless, the odd goblins once in a blue moon, the odd chalice/eldrazi or stax decks and everything else will have discard, decay or counters, especially the former.

    I have a lot of depths, and run 2 karakas, I would love to crop rotate but I don't have a good enough land package, and already have a karn wish package.

    9 plains
    1 forest
    2 windswept heath
    2 karakas
    1 savannah
    3 city of traitors

    4 mox diamond

    4 land tax
    4 swords to plowshares
    3 orim's chant
    2 veil of summer
    3 enlightened tutor
    1 cursed scroll

    1 sylvan library
    4 rest in peace
    3 scroll rack
    1 sorcerous spyglass

    1 banishing light
    1 oblivion ring
    1 gideon, of the trials
    1 phyrexian unlife

    1 cast out
    1 moat
    2 humility
    2 karn, the great creator
    1 helm of obedience
    1 elspeth, knight errant

    board
    4 leyline of sanctity (storm, painter, burn, pox, depths)
    1 choke (4 col good stuff, show/tell, and miracles, delver etc.)
    1 rule of law (elves, storm, omni-tell, belcher, bomberman, food chain etc.)
    1 peacekeeper (I used to have two for those matches where a deck won't bring in removal like Infect, but now Oko says no to often, so it is for reanimator, oko-less elves etc.)
    1 kor haven (for matches where they have karn, as an extra land, and for depths, maverick, d n t, infect)
    wish board
    1 pithing needle
    1 trinisphere
    1 cursed totem
    1 zuran orb
    1 torpor orb
    1 mycosynth lattice
    1 helm of obedience


    In most games, Gideon, Elpseth, Phyrexian Unlife, are on the chopping block, and then scroll, swords depending. Unlife I only keep as I see a lot of 20/20s, sometimes one sneaks through before it is dealt with.
    Orings are very versatile, and the ability to cast them t2 is invaluable, and thanks to Mox + city it happens a lot.

    I often board in the totem/needle effects, sometimes leylines, but normally leave the one helm/lattice sideboard. Trinisphere rarely comes in, but it does work from the board.

    As ever, the deck can deal with everything, and right now Humility, O rings, Rule of law are especially strong. I have tried to add a bit less disadvantage in with Sylvan and Veil.

    The best match ups are as ever show and tell, depths is better than ever, d n t good, reanimator RB can be too fast, and storm as usual is about orims, Karn, and now veil until boarding. The miracles match (bant miracles) is easier than it was as the old UW or UWr counterbalance match. Those astrolabes can hurt them when Karn comes down early and they have not got the correct mana at the right time.

    Elspeth is still there from the old build, no longer with Nahiri as there is no red. She adds pressure and it has to be said, once in a blue moon gives an animated trinisphere or whatever a +3+3 and flying when humility is down. Fun times.
    Wishing you all a happy Christmas.

  6. #706

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Green seems very interesting since veil indeed. You might think about adding City of Solitude to replace 3ball (stronger and also immune to oko/shatter effects).

    You could probably run 3x chant and 3x veil maindeck. Worst case scenario they let you push through lock pieces and best case they draw you a card while doing so.

  7. #707

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt-Qc View Post
    Green seems very interesting since veil indeed. You might think about adding City of Solitude to replace 3ball (stronger and also immune to oko/shatter effects).

    You could probably run 3x chant and 3x veil maindeck. Worst case scenario they let you push through lock pieces and best case they draw you a card while doing so.
    The main issue with city is that I play the deck as a control deck as much as a combo deck- it is a versatile deck which is the beauty- often running out hate pieces, the draw engine combo, and o ring effects before going for the win, unless veil/orim's is in hand to force it, and I have a number of effects at instant speed that often get deployed in that style- control the game then win- 3 tutor, although they are often cast post tax search, cast out potentially, orim'sx3 , 2 veil, 4 swords and potentially bluffing crop rotation too, even though I do not run it. If I took the orim's out and brought in city against blue decks, that would work, I am not sure if I don't prefer Veil against a lot of decks, and veil is not good with it. 3sphere certainly does not often come in against a lot of decks you would expect it to, ones that it was an auto include when it was R splash, and normally nowadays it stays in the karn wishboard.
    Rule is often better than 3sphere against storm and certain combo, although I will bring in both against combo, but against 4 colour oko I bring in just choke for the dead unlife, leaving in elspeth, gideon that are quite weak against a lot of decks but decent against 4 colour control.
    I am definitely considering 3 Veil, kor haven in the board feels wrong. I know that with one forest, 2 fetch, 1 savannah, 4 mox d I can support 2 veil. with one fewer fetches I can only support one at best, which is how haven ended up in the board. I used to dread miracles but bant miracles and snow control are much better with karn in my deck.

  8. #708
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    gideon, of the trials is interesting, vs wich decks it shine more? never hear of it in this thread...sorry my bad english

  9. #709

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Telim Tor View Post
    gideon, of the trials is interesting, vs wich decks it shine more? never hear of it in this thread...sorry my bad english
    Gideon works against different decks in different ways. It is a quite good card in a lot of situations.

    Against certain combo decks a t2 gideon buys a turn via the emblem. Belcher is an example, the two storm decks others, where having him down means they have to win the game and then deal with him.

    Against control decks his job is to threaten enemy walkers. Just having him down can mean you cab use the orims to blank spells, forcing through damage from Gideon in the same turn as dropping a combo piece. Cards like Lilly LH and OTV are pressured by it.
    A 4cc Jace has to +2 to get out of range, and +2 is not the best against a L tax/scrack/sylvan deck anyway. Potentially with Karn turning things and with Elspeth in some combination, most walkers can be pressured at least, and the switch on/off ability and careful play can really make them hard to remove. This is why one must be careful with Moat.


    Against beatdown decks like Eldrazi and Infect it is good at buying time.

    It really is just a flexible card. Game two it comes out quite often.

    The main use is probably pressurising Walkers.

  10. #710

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by drmarkb View Post
    Gideon works against different decks in different ways. It is a quite good card in a lot of situations.

    Against certain combo decks a t2 gideon buys a turn via the emblem. Belcher is an example, the two storm decks others, where having him down means they have to win the game and then deal with him.

    Against control decks his job is to threaten enemy walkers. Just having him down can mean you cab use the orims to blank spells, forcing through damage from Gideon in the same turn as dropping a combo piece. Cards like Lilly LH and OTV are pressured by it.
    A 4cc Jace has to +2 to get out of range, and +2 is not the best against a L tax/scrack/sylvan deck anyway. Potentially with Karn turning things and with Elspeth in some combination, most walkers can be pressured at least, and the switch on/off ability and careful play can really make them hard to remove. This is why one must be careful with Moat.


    Against beatdown decks like Eldrazi and Infect it is good at buying time.

    It really is just a flexible card. Game two it comes out quite often.

    The main use is probably pressurising Walkers.

    Played Parfait at fnm last night to a 3-1 record.
    r4 beat Bant snow-oko miracles
    r3 beat aggro pox
    r2 lost to depths
    r1 beat show and tell

    Gideon did a lot of work in the s and t g2, with the board nearly locked via 2x humility, needle, 3 sphere, rule of law (both vs the active omniscience) effects etc, a boarded keranos was eating life, circumventing Humility as it was not a critter, and gideon dealt with it until I could execute the win. It also was relevant against Miracles g1 and 3, which I won in on t4 executing the combo, but only after gideon had removed my opponent's chance of beating me to death with active food tokens.
    Elspeth was again v decent in the miracles match, coming down to finish an Oko that had nerfed scroll rack, and using up valuable resources.
    Sadly I was outplayed in the depths match, both on the board- I could have won had I chosen the correct Karn option- and the boarding- the match is harder than regular build of medium depths as it has something like 9 or 10 kill spells for lock pieces after boarding- 4 decay, 4 trophy and even golgari charms.

    Karn is still amazing, and the veils are obscenely good even if situational. 2 humility is the way forward in an oko world.

  11. #711
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Idea: UWg Parfait with Astrolabe, Oko & Veil

    Thoughts: Daze was fun, but Veil is better. City of Traitors always worked well with Land Tax, and City also works well with Astrolabe to power out a Teferi or Oko on turn 2. City also helps playing Karn, and it's worth a copy of Liquimetal Coating in the side, which coupled with Oko allows for Elking any permanent. 6 mana for Lattice is very possible as well. So whole deck seems to have lots of powerful permanents orbiting each other in ways that do you well.

    Problems: The deck is way too full. Right now Jace, Narset, Teferi, Karn & Oko all want to resolve, and I think some disciplined cuts might make a single, better game plan flourish. If it does become just "Planeswalker Control the Deck", Energy Field & Web of Inertial starts to wane in usefulness.

    Thoughts welcome
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  12. #712

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Someone posted a link to a "tiramisu" primer on Reddit:

    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tiram...ekarn-parfait/

    What do you guys think?

  13. #713

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by jubeininja69 View Post
    Someone posted a link to a "tiramisu" primer on Reddit:

    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tiram...ekarn-parfait/

    What do you guys think?
    I prefer City of T over Tombs- they work better with land tax - the deck can grind and the lands get tapped a lot.

    I used to play Zuran main until Karn GTC- at that point it is a sideboard card for me. Never looked back. Karn into zuran on the same turn is a great line sometimes- the zuran won't get dazed if Karn did not.

    Ivory tower and Zuran's life gain are basically redundant against fast combo, and redundant against control- you can't beat a monastery mentor crew for very long with them, you beat those cards by removing them. Life gain is useful against Delver and DS tempo type lists, but Parfait has a decent match there anyway- or at least ones not running tombs do. Zuran's main use is in getting the scrack/LT combo going. I am wondering if the deck could use Mox opal over Grim monolith with a few tweaks. Tower is troubling for me nowadays- the deck has no issues when Land tax/Scrack is working, and when land tax is not working tower does nothing. I like the Zuran/Tower but in a Karn world I would not maindeck Tower ever. In the current meta Karn is everywhere, so I would like to see more ways of winning and removing opposing karns, because opposing Chalice and Karn will be GG in short order.

    No Orims' I can understand- it is a superb card when forcing the combo through and superb against enemy combo, and can buy a key turn against so much- I can see E tutor into DS doing a similar role there in terms of shutting down a storm style deck. I will always play Orim's myself in some number. It is less efficient when Trinisphere is down, so I can see why this list cuts it.

    Wasteland is interesting- it opens up the self waste plan to switch on a scrack/LT combo, but generally wasting enemy lands is not working with LT, and Humility Painter is a nonbo if Humility is down first.

    With this list I wonder if RW painter offers more tricks/tech to be borrowed, I am not that familiar with that deck in today's meta.

    I think Karn and Sol lands are the way ahead for the deck, regardless of splash and builds. It needs soem combo too- RIP helm, painter or even Opalescence/Wave or Solemnity/Depths.

  14. #714
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    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    I have issues with him starting by saying white doesn’t have card advantage. That’s wrong. Wrath is card advantage. Tax is card advantage by itself. This makes him seem unreliable to me.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  15. #715

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    He says Land Tax rectifies the lack of CA, so clearly for some reason he is not referring to Land Tax as part of white in general, and suggesting LT runs against white's natural lack of CA.

    I think he means card draw rather than advantage.
    Balance was a poster child for white CA, and mass removal in general was very white as noted. Cards that say X can't be cast e.g. Nevermore or similar can be CA too. Karn can be CA.

    I once played a bug player who commented on me effectively drawing 6 a turn, saying his brainstorms seemed a bit weak in comparison.

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