Page 35 of 36 FirstFirst ... 25313233343536 LastLast
Results 681 to 700 of 704

Thread: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

  1. #681
    Member
    Weapon X's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2014
    Location

    Winnipeg, Mb
    Posts

    339

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    If you are playing blue you are conceding that you want to combo ASAP with protection. Drop belcher for redundancy of helm. Jace would be a better secondary win con. Daze will give you some early game help
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  2. #682
    Member
    Weapon X's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2014
    Location

    Winnipeg, Mb
    Posts

    339

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    @lemon Is there a certain aspect of tempo that youíre having issues with?
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  3. #683
    Member
    Lemon's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2019
    Location

    USA
    Posts

    22

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    @lemon Is there a certain aspect of tempo that youíre having issues with?
    Mainly that there seem to be a lot of bad top deck cards if that makes sense. For example, drawing a RiP, Scroll Rack, or Land Tax by itself feels really bad, especially in multiples. Then when they counter the second half of the combo I've found I'm hard pressed to keep up enough of a defense to rebuild.

    I did try out the dazes, and I really enjoy them so far. I think I'm going to see if anyone local has some Enlightened Tutors I can borrow to try out, or maybe go to a red splash for World's Edge and try that route. Once the engine gets going the deck is bonkers, it just feels very lackluster without, so I'm hoping the Enlightened Tutors will help with that some.

  4. #684
    Member
    Weapon X's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2014
    Location

    Winnipeg, Mb
    Posts

    339

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    The real draw to enlightened tutor is the ability to play silver bullets. Like you even said, the deck is bonkers when the engine is going, so the bullets let you get there. Itís actually why I donít like the blue splash. Counters make the engine less relevant. Blue essentially makes you pure combo. The only reaction you need is on your winning turn. I play Wr so the engine helps recoup all the inherit card disadvantage that we play. Combined with prison/bullet elements you gain inevitablity. The longer the game goes the more you are assured to win. Blue should make you more of a laser beam. You can be more focused and protect yourself which isnít really what the parfait engine lends itself too. Maybe just keeping this in mind will help you against tempo.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  5. #685
    Member
    Lemon's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2019
    Location

    USA
    Posts

    22

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    The real draw to enlightened tutor is the ability to play silver bullets. Like you even said, the deck is bonkers when the engine is going, so the bullets let you get there. Itís actually why I donít like the blue splash. Counters make the engine less relevant. Blue essentially makes you pure combo. The only reaction you need is on your winning turn. I play Wr so the engine helps recoup all the inherit card disadvantage that we play. Combined with prison/bullet elements you gain inevitablity. The longer the game goes the more you are assured to win. Blue should make you more of a laser beam. You can be more focused and protect yourself which isnít really what the parfait engine lends itself too. Maybe just keeping this in mind will help you against tempo.
    This was very helpful. I've been playing the deck like a UW Control list, almost like landstill. Do you have an up to date WR list I could look at? The pillow fort\prison element was what drew me to UW in the beginning.

  6. #686

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    @Weapon X :
    Same question than Lemon, did you change your list with the W&6/Oko meta?
    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    The only glass cannon here is the pilot.
    I play decks with a lot of white enchantments, and white isn't even my favorite color.

  7. #687

  8. #688

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    I guess Parfait is still looking for an efficient way get rid of PWs (ie: better than O-ring).
    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    The only glass cannon here is the pilot.
    I play decks with a lot of white enchantments, and white isn't even my favorite color.

  9. #689
    Member
    Weapon X's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2014
    Location

    Winnipeg, Mb
    Posts

    339

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    O ring and needle are the main ways game 1 so a more efficient way would be great. Game 2 combat can become an option among others. Councils judgement is probably the most useful card
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  10. #690
    Member

    Join Date

    Nov 2007
    Location

    Germany, RLP, KO
    Posts

    449

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    I just read The Parameter of Land Tax in Legacy and the author was pretty positive on Tax Rack ("will be a very successful deck") and got me excited to build the deck.

    Now I came here and I wonder why this thread is still in the new/developmental forum after such a long time, which makes me feel that it's no "real" competitive deck, even after seven years of developing.
    Isn't Tax Rack as good as the article made it or why isn't this deck considered an "established" deck?

  11. #691
    Member
    Weapon X's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2014
    Location

    Winnipeg, Mb
    Posts

    339

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    I havenít read that article, but Iíve claimed this deck viable since the unbanning of tax. To me itís more a player base issue. Mono white, especially creatureless, is considered bad by the masses so why even play it when you can play blue? In the end itís a fringe deck that can put up numbers, but it has zero to minimal representation globally. Combine that with it having punishing decision trees at times also means you need skilled players piloting it to have a chance to shine.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  12. #692

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Hello All!
    Long time lurker first time poster. I've been working on Parfait for a long time and I've tried to push the deck into a new interesting direction just to add my own spice to the deck building options.
    https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/chic...?cb=1573103837

    Here's my current deck list:

    Land


    2x Forest

    4x Grove of Burnwillows

    3x Lotus Field

    5x Mountain

    6x Plains

    Sorcery


    2x Life from the Loam

    2x Sevinne's Reclamation

    3x Terminus <

    Planeswalkers

    2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance

    1x Wrenn and Six

    Enchantment

    4x Land Tax

    3x Oblivion Ring <

    3x Seismic Assault

    1x Sylvan Library

    4x Enlightened Tutor

    4x Path to Exile

    4x Punishing Fire

    3x Mox Diamond

    1x Mox Opal

    3x Scroll Rack

    -------------------------

    I would describe this as a weird mid-range combo deck and I'm pretty happy with most of the design of this deck. Terminus and O-Ring I feel are the weakest links in the deck particularly against aggro / counterspell decks. The combination of Tax / Rack / Seismic Assault / Lotus Field / Sevinne's Reclamation are pretty strong and almost inevitable even against most counterspell decks given a long enough timeline. I also like the fact that I don't need Tax to hit the board in this parfait deck to run which is a crutch in many parfait decks. Seismic Assault / Loam / W6 are strong on their own right without Land Tax. I also like the fact that I can slowly recur land into my deck using Life from the Loam and Scroll Rack whilst drawing new cards. Furthermore, with a resolved Land Tax and Seismic Assult with a Life from the Loam in hand I can smash 12 damage in 1 turn. Chandra and Punishing Fire help add extra win conditions as well as provide additional sources of direct damage / mana / synergies. There are other synergies in the deck that are also quite nice that I don't really need to speak to.

    So I'm basically looking for any suggestions for replacing Terminus &or Oblivion Ring as well as sideboard choices.

    Terminus is only really good with Scroll Rack and can be hard cast with my sources of mana and is sometimes nice when it shows up unexpectedly. O-Ring is basically good with E-tutor and Sevinne's Reclamation and can target walkers as well as artifacts and enchantments but can be a slow investment that sucks when countered since it can only be cast on your turn.

    I would happily consider any suggestions that could add value to the already present synergies or outside of the box alternative plans that could present interesting directions for the deck.

    *Note: color and mana cost concerns- I have found between Land Tax, Lotus Field, and Mox Diamond I can nearly always cast the cards in my hand with little or no problems. It does make you susceptible to color problems at times with a bad hand. Luckily, London mulls help greatly in this regard and usually I have a card or two I'm happy to deposit at the bottom of my deck such as an O-ring or Terminus.

  13. #693
    Member
    Weapon X's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2014
    Location

    Winnipeg, Mb
    Posts

    339

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    The whole reason for the parfait engine is to gain incremental advantage over the course of the game. It just feels out of place with what you seemingly want to do. Enlightened tutor also feels like a wasted slot. Seismic assault feels like a trap all the time, Iíd sooner run borborygmos as a one card engine/win con based on what youíre attempting.

    Terminus is replaceable by wrath. Oring could be councils judgment.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  14. #694

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by beebles_elbow View Post
    //list

    First I really like the fact that you're trying to take Tax/Rack into a new direction and that's cool.
    There are several cards I would like to mention:
    ó Lotus Field. I find this choice bold and interesting, considering it makes you lose a turn and it leaves you stone cold dead to Blood Moon. But I can see the appeal in a Land Tax deck.
    ó Seismic Assault: Like Weapon X said, it looks like a trap. is quite a lot in a three-colors deck and it doesn't kill fast enough. There are probably better things to do in this spot.
    ó Sevinne's Reclamation. I really like this one. I do believe this is Legacy playable and you might have find the best deck for it.

    Also, I like what you're trying to do with the Pws (Chandra and W&6). And since PWs strategies are at an all-time high, I wonder if there wouldn't be a way to bring Parfait into a planewalkers-heavy version, with Pws we don't see in Legacy enough because too expensive (Nahiri, the Lithomancer comes to mind). Grind machines are the best way to get incremental advantage after all.

    That being said, I do agree with Weapon X. The longer the game last, the best you engine becomes, and it especially fit a deck that tries to lock the opponent out of the game. Your version seems a bit out of place, or rather, it looks like a Naya lands.dec where you just added the Parfait engine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    The only glass cannon here is the pilot.
    I play decks with a lot of white enchantments, and white isn't even my favorite color.

  15. #695

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by aedemiel View Post
    First I really like the fact that you're trying to take Tax/Rack into a new direction and that's cool.
    There are several cards I would like to mention:
    ó Lotus Field. I find this choice bold and interesting, considering it makes you lose a turn and it leaves you stone cold dead to Blood Moon. But I can see the appeal in a Land Tax deck.
    ó Seismic Assault: Like Weapon X said, it looks like a trap. is quite a lot in a three-colors deck and it doesn't kill fast enough. There are probably better things to do in this spot.
    ó Sevinne's Reclamation. I really like this one. I do believe this is Legacy playable and you might have find the best deck for it.

    Also, I like what you're trying to do with the Pws (Chandra and W&6). And since PWs strategies are at an all-time high, I wonder if there wouldn't be a way to bring Parfait into a planewalkers-heavy version, with Pws we don't see in Legacy enough because too expensive (Nahiri, the Lithomancer comes to mind). Grind machines are the best way to get incremental advantage after all.

    That being said, I do agree with Weapon X. The longer the game last, the best you engine becomes, and it especially fit a deck that tries to lock the opponent out of the game. Your version seems a bit out of place, or rather, it looks like a Naya lands.dec where you just added the Parfait engine.

    Thanks for some positive feedback :)
    Although I don't feel a need to argue the merits of Seismic Assault, I have been testing the deck for quite some time and I feel Lotus Field is pretty amazing in the deck. It can't be targeted and if someone (including you) Moon's it you wind up fetching your colors off of Land Tax anyways so really it doesn't actually slow you down to any degree; particularly if you wait to play it at the end of turn after you've resolved a Land Tax, or spells for turn, or just wind up pitching it to Mox Diamond. Most players (Delver) if they let you resolve Land Tax it is off of the assumption that you have a greedy land base and need lots of lands whilst they can sit there happy with 1 or two land. I think there is merit in just about any Parfait deck as a 1-of way of reducing land creep without wasting a card slot, increasing mana base, meanwhile allowing for color fixing. And did I mention it gives you three? So yeah tap a land resolve Trinisphere, tap a land resolve Ghostly Prison.... Even in Weapon X's Parfait build I could see fit for a 1-of Lotus Field.

    Sevinne's Reclamation is strong for Parfait because it allows you recur directly into play, and it sucks to have to waste counterspells on such a card. Particularly since you can flashback two copies and will have to counter both to keep the thing off of the battlefield. This allows for more streamlining deck building design (if combo is your thing), as well as provides additional information about the opponent when you attempt to cast SR. So paying 5 for flashback is pricey but not if it allows you to continue building towards your overall strategy. If you are playing a 2-card combo or prison style Parfait I feel SR is a necessity somewhere in the 75 (assuming your main pieces are all 3 cmc or less). Obviously its not as great if you main RIP, but you could reduce the count of RIPs with SR.

  16. #696
    Member
    Weapon X's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2014
    Location

    Winnipeg, Mb
    Posts

    339

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    The thing there is that if a delver player lets you resolve a tax itís because they can play their deck off of 1 land. So you may get one activation of tax if youíre lucky. Thatís why I play trinisphere. Legacy is all about that stream lined efficiency so trinisphere can force land drops and thus tax activations. Even if it just slows the game down a touch, that gives us time to slowly close the door.

    Lotus field feels an even bigger trap then seismic assault. Lands are our main resource after all so sacrificing them to play a land that doesnít really benefit us seems like a bad idea.

    Sevinnes reclamation seems good. It does not slot well into the rip/helm plan, both cards of which have merit beyond their combo potential. I could see it with the approach the second sun plan I had considered. That build could very easily be mono white and play some of the cuter cards like lotus field.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  17. #697

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    The thing there is that if a delver player lets you resolve a tax itís because they can play their deck off of 1 land. So you may get one activation of tax if youíre lucky. Thatís why I play trinisphere. Legacy is all about that stream lined efficiency so trinisphere can force land drops and thus tax activations. Even if it just slows the game down a touch, that gives us time to slowly close the door.

    Lotus field feels an even bigger trap then seismic assault. Lands are our main resource after all so sacrificing them to play a land that doesnít really benefit us seems like a bad idea.

    Sevinnes reclamation seems good. It does not slot well into the rip/helm plan, both cards of which have merit beyond their combo potential. I could see it with the approach the second sun plan I had considered. That build could very easily be mono white and play some of the cuter cards like lotus field.
    The more I think about this, the more I think you're right.
    Playing Lotus Field means you are forced to play your lands within the first 2 turns, meaning you will probably lose a Tax activation.
    Like beebles_elbow says, maybe it's playable as a 1-of but it's still a dead card in the first two turns and it looks terrible in the opening hand.

    Yeah, Sevinne's Reclamation looks nice on paper, but I think we don't want to play that right now. Especially since RiP is so good against so many stuff on the field and Helm is still the best "Oops-I-win" button in Legacy.
    However the card could be powerfull enough to play with differents strategies.
    What was you Second Sun build?
    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    The only glass cannon here is the pilot.
    I play decks with a lot of white enchantments, and white isn't even my favorite color.

  18. #698
    Member
    Weapon X's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2014
    Location

    Winnipeg, Mb
    Posts

    339

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    I never really fleshed it out, but the prospect of playing 2 approach for a win con felt extremely powerful with the parfait engine. I think it also opens up the deck to sol lands which I donít feel are otherwise needed. I saw it as a more spell based build that takes greater advantage of the classic no stick. Essentially the prison elements become pure control. The engine is there more so to help recover from the 1 for 1 attrition.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  19. #699
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2019
    Location

    SoCal
    Posts

    41

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Along with Dreadstill, Parfait was another deck that I always admired from afar but never played. It'll be awhile before I can build the list on paper, but had some questions ideas for the Parfait regs, based on Weapon X's list a few posts back. Been reading back through this thread, have made it back to late 2018 so far.

    From what I understand, Parfait uses Land Tax/Scroll Rack similar as a card drawing engine, then uses that card advantage to answer threats and slowly lock opponents out, then combo out (3sphere, PtE, GPrison, Humility and team -> Helm/Belcher). Thinking about the Surgical Extraction test, what does the deck do without the engine?


    1. Experience with Scroll of Fate in Dreadstill makes me believe that it is a fantastic single-card engine to turn dead and sub-optimal draws into a resource. Given the "silver-bullet" nature of Parfait, I would assume that there are many times in G1 where cards (redundant Taxes, lands, dead bullets) may just sit in hand. Weakens Ivory Tower, but strengthens Humility.

    -1 Land Tax/ +1 Scroll of Fate

    2. Does Karn, the Great Creator not have a place in this deck in the main? He randomly hates on problematic artifacts, can give redundancy to combo pieces by hiding them in the sideboard, and turns off enemy moxen/forces them to play more lands; seems like a natural pairing if the intent of Parfait is to slow things down. With no Wasteland, pairing him with Liquimetal Coating out of the side enables him to snipe lands if Tax no longer needs to be activated and makes him a finisher in his own right that is immune to Decay. There's the obvious Mycosynth Lattice pairing that's possible, but that seems excessive with so many prison elements already in place.

    - 1 Wrath, -1 Ivory Tower or Zorb / +2 Karn

    SB:
    - Liquimetal
    - Ensnaring Bridge (if Scroll is Main)
    - 13 slots whatever you need for your meta, 11 if you hide redundant Helm/Charbelcher.

    Just some off hand thoughts I had while reading the thread, I've done no testing of the above cards in a Parfait list, only speaking from experience with their use in Dreadstill. Keep alive the (mostly) MonoW dream!

    Dreadstill

    "Control"(tr.v.): To exercise authoritative or dominating influence over; direct."

  20. #700

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Without any Dreadnought/Morph synergy Scroll of Fate doesn't seem very good.
    If you draw a situational card the plan is to use the Rack/Tax engine to shuffle it away. If you want to play a 3 mana permanent that makes 2/2s then why not just aim for 1 more mana and play Gideon Ally of Zendikar for example

    Karn seems like an okay idea but it's still a deck with no Sol Lands or acceleration except Diamond, and putting tutor bullets in the sideboard either makes E-Tutor worse or now you have e.g. 1 Zuran Orb main and 1 Zuran Orb side which cuts into your deck space quite a lot

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)