Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 849

Thread: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Keep Calm and Brainstorm
    (nameless one)'s Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2009
    Location

    GTA, Ontario
    Posts

    2,878

    [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    PARFAIT

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post

    Parfait - par·fait (pär-f)
    n.
    1. A dessert made of cream, eggs, sugar, and flavoring frozen together and served in a tall glass.
    2. A dessert made of several layers of different flavors of ice cream or ices, variously garnished and served in a tall glass.
    Introduction

    Parfait is a white-based control deck that utilizes [CARD]sLand Tax[/CARDs] to gain card advantage in junction with Scroll Rack to turn that advantage into quality. Scroll Rack also benefits from Land Tax's shuffle effect to shuffle away unneeded cards that are "scrolled" back to the library.

    Extended Context

    The first known successful iteration of a Tax/Rack deck was piloted by Randy Buehler in the form of White Weenie with the said draw engine:

    The low mana curve of White Weenie was perfect with Land Tax as the deck can run with minimal lands on the field. With low land count, Land Tax can be kept active while the opponent keeps playing land so it can cast answers to the Weenie threat. The deck soon became an Extended powerhouse.

    Classic Control

    Following Tax/Rack Success in Extended, few players tried porting the deck to Type 1. The lists turned from aggro to aggro-control to control. The first known iteration of a control-based Tax/Rack was published by Darren di Batista, featuring a list created by Raphael Caron and Parfait as we know it was born:

    Instead of the aggro-base with a draw engine, Parfait used the Tax/Rack engine to efficiently find answer spells or silver bullets that were effective against the meta of its time. The name Parfait came from the word French word parfait which means perfect.

    The Perfect Mix

    The original Parfait decks had components that can deal with early, mid and late game.

    For the early game, it had answers in the form of cheap and efficient removal and life gain. The removal is self-explanatory. The life gain is there so that the deck can stabilize for the mid and late games.

    As the deck stabilize, the mid game of the deck revolves around finding silver bullets against opposing decks either by using the Tax/Rack engine or using Enlightened Tutor. Once the opponent has been effectively controlled, the deck can set up for the late game into a win.

    The deck utilizes a comboesque win, using Planar Birth to recur discarded Plains (discarded through the clean up step with extra cards in hand) to power up Sacred Mesa. Parfait was one of the first control decks to have a "I win" button.

    Caught in the Split

    Back in its time, Tax/Rack was considered one of the best card advantage engine (it didn't just drew cards, it also had a built in card selection). It was considered so powerful that when the Type 1- Type 1.5 split happened (birth of the Legacy format), the combo had to be neutered in the "powerless" format. With this reasoning, Land Tax was banned in Legacy for almost a decade.

    Eventually, the power level of the format increased and more two card combos started showing up. This created discussions and arguments on the validity of Land Tax in the format. The DCI finally showed leniency on the card and on June 20, 2012; Land Tax finally became Legacy legal. Now the quest to find the right deck for Land Tax begins.

    A lot of players tried adding Land Tax to existing lists such as U/W Miracle Decks. In the end, it did not work out since the requirements to 'break' Land Tax cannot simply be met in a mana hungry deck. To make things worse, the format has become more efficient on spending its mana. With decks that can run and win on 0-2 lands. To make Land Tax work in the format, the list has to be built around the card. Here is where Parfait comes in.

    In with the Old

    In order to port the old Parfait lists to the current Legacy meta, we have to compare the before and now. Here are the notable changes from the old to the current:

    • Aggro creatures becoming more efficient in terms of effect/power vs. mana cost.
    • The prevalence of utility creatures.
    • The dependence (and abuse) of graveyards.
    • The birth of Storm.
    • The advent of Planeswalkers.
    • Multitude of two-card, game ending combos (both win and lock)
    • Cheap and efficient removal


    With the knowledge above and the principles of Parfait, it can then be determined on how to shape a new Parfait list.

    Parfait Revival

    Parfait is a [control] deck that revolves around an engine. In order for it to work, it has to be built around the engine. But in order for it to be successful, it has to work without the engine.

    First the engine of the deck:

    These cards are the reason why Parfait is Parfait.

    Like any engine decks, Parfait needs to be built around to break symmetry and to make it efficient. The old lists achieved this by utilizing the following:

    • Run cheap game changing spells (usually in the form of removal).
    • Use means to reduce land count to fewer than your opponent.
    • Use mana resistors to force your opponent to play more lands than you (and to slow them).
    • Use cheap artifact mana sources.


    In order for the archetype to be successful, it also needs to work without having Tax/Rack active. This was achieved by using [CARD]Enlightened Tutor[/CARD] (not only to find Tax/Rack pieces but also to find hate pieces). Cards that have X-for-one effects were also used to maximize each use of the cards (such as [CARD]Wrath of God[/CARD]). Scroll Rack can also be used to fix consistency

    Primer

    The old Parfait lists followed a certain shell:

    • Draw Engine (Tax/Rack & Back up) [7-9]: This is where Land Tax and Scroll Rack go in. Back in its Type 1 days, Jayemdae Tome and Library of Alexandria would be used as back up. But with the current card selection Legacy has right now, there are better option that are also legal in the format; Sensei's Divining Top comes to mind.
    • Swords to Plowshares [4]: This has been a staple removal in Classic formats, although Path to Exile could be an alternative depending on how the list is tackled.
    • Silver Bullets [8-10]: They are cards/permanents that nullify different strategies, whether it be against creatures (Humility/Moat), graveyard strategies (Rest in Peace), spell-based (Trinisphere) among other things
    • Tutor/Utility [8-10]: Tutor refers to Enlightened Tutor (although they used to be restricted in Type 1.). Utility refers to non-permanent spells (the ones you cannot tutor for) that help and support either the Tax/Rack engine or compliments to the silver bullets.
    • Win Condition [3-5]: Every deck needs to win a legitimate way. These only have a few slots due to the comboesque win conditions used by Parfait.
    • Mana Artifacts [5-8]: They reduce the dependence to lands as a means of mana source. This means that Land Tax can be kept active.
    • Lands [18-20] (Plains [10-15]): They are still an essential mana source but they can also be used for utility.


    The problem with the count between mana artifact and lands is that the Alpha Moxen are banned in the format. Finding the right proportion between the two is currently open for discussion.

    Here are a couple of sample lists that can be used as guidelines for building the decks. Most of these are theoretical lists before Land Tax was actually Legacy legal:

    Stephen Menendian's Stax-like build

    Stephen Menendian's Suggested List Post Unbanning Circa June 2012
    Hatebear-Based Parfait:
    (nameless one's) Parfait Revival:
    Selecting the 75

    To be continued...

    Piloting Parfait

    To be continued...

    Splashes and Flavors

    Here is an excerpt from Stephen Menendian's article concerning splashes:

    BLUE

    Brainstorm
    Brainstorm has natural synergy with Land Tax. The problem with Brainstorm is mana cost. You are going to be knee deep in Blue if you are relying on early Brainstorms. That means your manabase probably has some strange combinations of plains and islands, and perhaps a few fetchlands, and perhaps even a Tundra or two. The awkwardness stems from potentially needing to play both a first turn Land Tax and possibly Brainstorming early, yet having mostly basic lands. The longer the game goes the more value can be extracted from Brainstorm (shuffling away extra lands and digging deeper into an already thinned deck), so keep that in mind when analyzing opening hands and lines of play.

    Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    If Brainstorm has strong synergy with Land Tax, certainly Jace does as well. It has direct synergy with Land Tax, a pseudo Scroll Rack. Jace is a natural finisher for a control deck of this caliber, and also has the ability of controlling creatures on the battlefield.

    Daze
    As my teammate Kevin Cron pointed out, Daze is insane with Land Tax, since it works like Zuran Orb, to return the land you already played to hand to guarantee Land Tax triggers.

    RED

    Blood Moon
    Blood Moon is an excellent Tutor target, and highly synergistic in any Land Tax deck. Blood Moon neuters fetchlands, and can singlehandedly win matchups. It is a strong consideration for any W/R Land Tax deck.

    Firestorm
    Firestorm is an enormously attractive option, just as it was in the Extended decks of old. It’s a great outlet for Land Tax and will clear an opposing board. This is probably a staple for any W/R Aggro deck revival.

    Seismic Assault
    Fool’s gold in my opinion. Not only is it too difficult to reliably cast, but it’s a poor use of your card advantage compared to putting back into your deck with Scroll Rack or Jace/Brainstorm.
    Matchups

    To be continued...

    Outside Information

    Here are some articles concerning Parfait:

    Last edited by (nameless one); 01-23-2013 at 12:27 AM.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  2. #2
    Keep Calm and Brainstorm
    (nameless one)'s Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2009
    Location

    GTA, Ontario
    Posts

    2,878

    Re: The Legacy Parfait Challenge

    This is an outdated source. For reference only


    Personal List and Explanations:


    Manabase:

    10 Snow-Covered Plains
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Wasteland
    4 Mox Diamond
    3 Chrome Mox

    Parfait Engine:

    4 Land Tax
    4 Scroll Rack
    4 Enlightened Tutor
    2 Argivian Find
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Zuran Orb

    Control Elements:

    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Trinisphere
    2 Ghostly Prison
    2 Terminus
    1 Humility
    1 Smokestack

    Win Conditions:
    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    2 Batterskull
    1 Goblin Charbelcher

    Manabase:

    Snow-Covered Plains: I was going to use good old Plains but it is Parfait! Has to be frozen. Although regular Plains are just as fine.

    City of Traitors : For the longest time, I was using Crystal Veins over this but with the inclusion of Trinisphere in the list, I need to consistently cast my cheaper spells under an active Trinisphere and City of Traitors isn't just a one time use only land. Although I am still contemplating on using 3/3 split between City of Traitors and Crystal Veins.

    Wasteland: They get rid of utility lands and lands that will produce more than one mana for the opponent. They're also there to color-screw the opponent. The existence of Crucible in the deck can catch the opponents off guard.

    Mox Diamond + Chrome Mox: They somehow help Land Tax trigger by lowering your land count on the field. While theres card disadvantage involved in using these, the Tax/Rack engine helps replenish your hand back.

    Parfait Engine:

    Land Tax + Scroll Rack: The engine of the deck. Under the right circumstances, you can dig through your library with these.

    Enlightened Tutor: Not only they can find Land Tax or Scroll Rack, it can also find enablers for the deck and board control pieces.

    Argivian Find: Either your draw engine pieces or board control pieces are bound to be countered or destroyed. These will get those pieces back.

    Crucible of Worlds: It has a couple synergies with the cards that you have in the deck. It can replay City of Traitors, Wastelands, or lands that used for Zuran Orb or Smokestacks.

    Zuran Orb: Its a good piece that can screw up the combat math. It also helps enable Land Tax.

    Control Elements:

    Swords to Plowshares: The debate was using this vs. Path to Exile. While Path to Exile helped trigger Land Tax, it also help your opponents work under taxing effects such as Ghostly Prison, Trinisphere and Smokestacks. In the end, I think Swords to Plowshares is still better than Path to Exile in Land Tax builds because if your opponents cannot recover from the mentioned taxing effects, you are still good and ahead of the game.

    Trinisphere: It slows the opponents down and helps enable Land Tax (along with Moxen and Sol Lands) by forcing the opponent to play more lands. It is also a great tool against ritual-based combo and decks that run on minimal lands (such as Elves and Tempo-based decks)

    Ghostly Prison: It slows swarm-based aggro decks and helps enable Land Tax by forcing your opponents to play more lands.

    Terminus: Once the opponent overextended, Terminus is a bomb against your opponent's field. It is essentially the Balance the deck needs. It is also fairly easy to set up its Miracle cost because of Scroll Rack

    Humility: This card can shut down a lot of utility and giant creatures in the format. It is also great that its tutorable.

    Smokestack: This card helps turn whatever soft lock you've established into hard lock while at the same time enabling Land Tax (by sacrificing your own lands)

    Win Condition:

    Stoneforge Mystic: This can cheat a Batterskull onto the field. At worst, its a blocker that can reset your Scroll Rack.

    Batterskull: For (via SFM), its a great beater. It also works great under an active Humility.

    Goblin Charbelcher: Its a great late game finisher, when your deck is running low on lands. At worst, it can reset Scroll Rack.

    Sideboard:

    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    3 Cursed Totem
    3 Grafdigger's Cage
    3 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Aura of Silence

    Cards that need to be addressed:

    Solitary Confinement
    Tangle Wire
    Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    Last edited by (nameless one); 01-23-2013 at 12:25 AM.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  3. #3
    Keep Calm and Brainstorm
    (nameless one)'s Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2009
    Location

    GTA, Ontario
    Posts

    2,878

    Re: The Legacy Parfait Challenge

    Older post:

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    Parfait

    Parfait is a mono-white control deck that uses the Land Tax + Scroll Rack combo. As long as you had less lands than your opponent, you are able to search your library and refill your hand with three basic lands. You would then activate Scroll Rack to replace those lands with useful card in your hand.

    When the original Legacy (then type 1.5) ban list was released, Land Tax was one of the cards that got the hammer due to its brokenness with Scroll Rack. Over time, more better and effiencient cards got printed and Land Tax eventually turned from Broken to a laughing matter. Even though all this turn of events happened, Land Tax did not leave the ban list. Instead the apparent reason why it was banned is because it stalled games.

    There has been a lot of speculations with the unbanning of Land Tax. It especially goes up everytime right before any updates on the B/R list. MTG Salvation is currently allowing a MWS Legacy tournament that allows players to run Land Tax. I myself would like to have my own take on Parfait for another Legacy tournament within my area that will be allowing Land Tax.

    Recently, I have been playtesting this decklist, although not thoroughly. It has been working so far but far from being a deck to beat.

    Here is my currently decklist:

    Legacy Parfait 1.0
    Currently the decklist clocks at 62 cards but I am still working on trimming it.

    I find that when I am playing Parfait in Legacy, you have to be a passive deck. It basically answers what your opponent throws. You don't really have to build the Parfait engine right away. Instead, try to set it up mid to late game. You have SDTs to help you early game. Mid-game, you will run out of gas, this is when you're going to utilize the Parfait Engine and try to either lock your opponent or combo-win (depending on the situation)

    Here are the main combo lockdowns that the deck utilizes:

    Scepter-Lock (Isochron Scepter + Orim's Chant): This essentially prevents your opponent from casting any spells and attacking with their creatures. It works by coping Chant via Scepter over and over again until you get enough mana and find your win condition.

    Confinement-Lock (Solitary Confinement): This lock is more conditional as it requires the Parfait Engine. This is more like an add-on to your Engine. It works by utilizing the card advantage gained from Parfait Engine to fuel Solitary Confinement's drawback. Although it is not a permanent lock as Scepter-Lock, you can still utilize this to buy you time to set up your win conditions. It could also work with Land Tax alone but it will only protect you until you run out of lands from your library.

    Here are the win conditions of the deck:

    Luminarch Ascension: Luminarch is really effective once you've set up a lock to your opponent. However, it is not as threatening by itself.

    Painter-Stone Combo (Painter's Servant + Grindstone): If you are in a hurry and have a way to Tutor them, you can always win with this.

    Goblin Charbelcher: This is your late game win condition, when you have went through with most of your lands. It could also act as a conditional removal.

    Other Card Choices:

    This deck is an idea and some of my choices need justification:

    Lands:

    Plains: No need to explain

    Ghost Quarter: This is your Wasteland. You might say its suboptimal but the main goal is to keep your opponent from their utility land, whether if its a man-land or a dual land. It is essentially a Wasteland but you want your opponent to have a higher land count as your to have Parfait Engine going. Whether your opponent decides to replace the destroyed land, its a win-win condition for you.

    Serra Sanctum: You run ample amounts of enchantment. I dont see whats wrong with a land that produces a lot of mana.

    Toolbox:

    Sensei's Divining Top: Like what I mentioned above, you Parfait is only good mid to late game. SDT is your helper early game. It helps you draw essential cards that you need to get by early game.

    Enlightened Tutor: If you need a silver bullet really bad, Tutor is there to bail you out. It could grab anything from combo-pieces to essential answers.

    Path to Exile: PtE rivals StP in this deck as this creature removal is made for this deck. PtE virtually doesnt have a drawback with this deck.

    Swords to Plowshares: For the most part, this is the best creature removal in the format. Having it to back up PtE does not hurt.

    Orim's Chant: Legacy's version of Time Walk. I currently play Quinn and I find this card to buy you time early game. It also creates a lock when paired with Scepter.

    Abeyance: This card is there to push through your counter. It also act as pseudo-disruption to certain decks. At worst, it cantrips for

    Isochron Scepter: Pair this with Chant and you have Scepter-lock. Pair this with one of your removals and you have a beating stick.

    Humility: Humility is one of those underrated cards out there. It shuts down a lot of creatures in a creature format. It also stops Qasali Pridemages and Trygon Predators from ruining your day. Makes Tarmogoyf an $80 1/1 for

    Oblivion Ring: Tutorable utility removal.

    Runed Halo: Its a pseudo-removal that protects you from a lot of dangerous things in the format. It can protect you from Goyfs to Tendrils

    Wrath of God: Mass creature removal

    Day of Judgement: Wrath of God 2.0. Sometimes, variety is good.

    Cataclysm: I recently added this mass removal as a Balance version. It has been okay so far. I am still undecided. It helps stabilize the field when things are not going your way.

    Agrivian Find: This deck runs a lot of singleton (because of its toolbox nature). Sometimes, you might need to recycle an enchantment or an artifact to win.

    Zuran Orb: This helps you keep your land count in check. It can also act as life gain against aggro.

    Pithing Needle: I have been debating a lot lately with this card. It is an awesome card as it shuts down anything from Vials to Survivals. If you dont need SDT anymore, you can shut down SDT to help you go through against CounterTop.

    Recent Suggestions/Possible Inclusion:

    Mox Diamond: Keeping your land count low is good. Mox D helps you with mana without going up on your land count. The problem that I have faced so far is that my deck's land count is too low to support Mox Diamond. Land Tax sometimes help but Mox Diamond itself is not consistent. Also, getting them removed is a hard pull-back.

    Chrome Mox: I am running a lot of singletons and exiling a card for C Mox is a real hard decision.

    So far, both have been unhelpful. Maybe I just dont know how to utilize Mox D properly but without Mox D, it has been working fine.

    Moat: This card is more of a meta call. I have been seeing a lot of Qasali Pridemages and Trygon Predators and Humility has been the better call lately. If the meta's aggro has been without the mentioned two then I suggest running Moat.

    Sacred Mesa: Originally, I was running this with Ascension's spot but I found that its more mana-intesive compared to Ascension. The "" upkeep also hurts in a deck that runs a low land count.

    Planar Birth: Vintage Parfait used to run this to return lands that have been sacrificed via Zuran Orbs. I have not really playtested with it and I dont see any help that it could provide.

    Wheel of Sun and Moon: This card is more of a sideboard card as a gravehate. I like the of using this to keep Confinement lock an infinite hard lock but it feels like a win-more condition.

    Ethersworn Canonist: This card has been on the main of Vintage lists. Vintage has a different meta to Legacy and not everyone will be running a storm based combo deck. This card is more of a sideboard card.

    Splashes:

    There has been a lot of suggestions concerning splashes. Having a splash does add more tools to the deck. The main problem that I see against splashes is that we already have a lot of little things going on. Having additional splash could result to a lot of micro-managing which will make the deck less effective. I'd like to keep a particular focus on the deck. Having said that doesn't mean that I am closing my mind on any splashes.

    Thank you for useful advises and as well as constructive criticism. Other suggestions are still open.
    UPDATE

    With the recent rumor of Land Tax being a Judge Promo, there has been recent speculations that it will get reintroduced to Legacy. I decided to try to work with this deck again. It cant hurt to be prepared, right?

    Here is the current version I have been testing:

    Legacy Parfait 2.0
    Changes and Discussions

    Mana Base

    There are now 19 lands in the deck

    Ancient Tomb - Ancient Tomb helps accelerate whatever pieces the deck is trying to play. At the same time, it helps with the lower land count but producing 2 mana from one source.

    Ghost Quarters - I was contemplating on running Wasteland on this spot but I think the main purpose of Ghost Quarters is to deny your opponent from having utility land such as manlands without lowering his land count.

    Mox Diamond - I dont think a build with only 19 lands can support Mox Diamond. I also think having a higher artifact count does not help the new additions to the deck.

    Spells:

    Swords to Plowshares - I have switched Path to Exile with StP because Path to Exile was not as effective as I though it would be.

    Sands of Time + Equipoise - The new addition to the deck. It is essentially a two-card lockdown combo (kinda like Scepter-Chant lock). With the deck's low land count and 0 creature card, both card can produce a permanent Balance effect. However, with this combo, The artifact count must be minimal, hence the lack of Mana Artifacts.

    Sands of Time also synergizes with the low land count. You can use your lands during your turn to play permanents and use those same lands during your opponent's turn to play control cards, or even use Scepter. This is the reason why Sands of Time has a higher count than Equipose.

    Open Slots:

    There are currently 6 open slots right now. They are reserved for win conditions and other tools that can be utilized in this deck. My current win condition right now is Goblin Charbelcher but I dont think that that itself is enough. This deck should have a back-up win condition (possibly a Black Vise effect since its a lockdown deck)

    Also, I think that other means of control should be used. I am thinking of using Humility, Runed Halo, Oblivion Ring, Wrath of God, or whatever would fit in the deck.

    As usual, any ideas and constructive comments are welcome.
    Last edited by (nameless one); 01-23-2013 at 12:26 AM.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  4. #4
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Dec 2011
    Posts

    459

    Re: The Legacy Parfait Challenge

    Just grabbed a nm legends playset for 70$

  5. #5
    Member

    Join Date

    Jan 2005
    Location

    I actually live in actual Chicago
    Posts

    679

    Re: The Legacy Parfait Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by rxavage View Post
    Just grabbed a nm legends playset for 70$
    I feel compelled to point out there's a playset of Legends Land Tax on ebay right now for $71.92 with free shipping, so waiting three years to buy in didn't actually cost anyone anything.

  6. #6
    Member
    Weapon X's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2014
    Location

    Winnipeg, Mb
    Posts

    486

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    It actually sounds like the difference is that you need turns to win with entreat where as when I hit my cards I'm basically winning on the spot. Parfait to me is a prison deck. I take advantage of that by forcing other decks to play how I want them to and combo kill with main deck hate.

    Also I think you are reading in to much. Path, wrath, O ring, humility, etc... There is no turbo wrath game. Wrath does however permanently deal with threats rather then having to deal with them later. The format is based on efficient spells and I choose to make my opponents spells inefficient. Trinisphere beats decks on its own. Miracle for 3 may as well still be a wrath.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  7. #7
    Keep Calm and Brainstorm
    (nameless one)'s Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2009
    Location

    GTA, Ontario
    Posts

    2,878

    Re: The Legacy Parfait Challenge

    I somehow updated the opening post for a quick intro to the deck concept.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  8. #8
    Member
    klaus's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2007
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    1,203

    Re: The Legacy Parfait Challenge

    I don't like Belcher as a wincon since it's way too situational. I'm not sure about Runed Halo either - could be a tutorable 1of, I guess.
    With Scroll Rack, wouldn't white Miracles be a feasible choice?
    Also 4 Mox Diamonds should be a given in this deck.

  9. #9

    Yep i am also considering green for loam

    Crucible too for loam / mox diamond
    But i do not see the gain yet i m focused on uw right now i ll test the rest later

  10. #10
    Keep Calm and Brainstorm
    (nameless one)'s Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2009
    Location

    GTA, Ontario
    Posts

    2,878

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    I am in the process of updating the primer. Any suggestions are welcome.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  11. #11
    It's an ugly pile of bones... like me.
    clavio's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2004
    Location

    Albany
    Posts

    745

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    I am in the process of updating the primer. Any suggestions are welcome.
    The suspense is killing me

  12. #12
    Member
    Shax's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2008
    Location

    Hayden, AL
    Posts

    47

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    I am in the process of updating the primer. Any suggestions are welcome.

    Ya I have a suggestion. Play the real TaxRack deck.

    4 Scroll Rack
    4 Land Tax
    4 Enlightened Tutor
    4 Mox Diamond
    14 Plains
    4 Tithe
    4 Grindstone
    4 Painter's Servant
    3 Rest in Peace
    3 Circle of Protection: Red
    4 Celestial Purge
    4 Argivian Find
    4 Abolish
    SB: 4 Oblivion Ring
    SB: 4 Path to Exile
    SB: 1 Rest in Peace
    SB: 2 Absolute Law
    SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
    SB: 1 Warmth
    SB: 2 Refraction Trap

    Have fun.

    Explanations:
    You play Painter's Servant instead of any other jank because you can stay on a 1-3 curve. At 3 mana being your killing point. Maindeck CoP: Red because it nails Jund, Goblins, Burn strategies.. Red cards. ( Everything becomes Red under Painter FYI ). Celestial Purge because it stops.. Red cards and even Black cards!
    The engine is self explanatory. You need x4 Tax, Rack, Tutor and Mox Diamond. Tithe is x4. Play it. Maindeck x3 Rest In Peace means we can beat Dredge Game 1, and allow us to win with Painter's Servant while they are playing Elfball with Emralku, or Emralku decks period. (Show and Tell? Sure we'll play Painter combo). Argivian Find means we can beat Control decks that FoW Tax or something. Abolish is x4.

    SB?
    O.Ring for Show and Tell/Decks that you feel comfortable bringing a 3CMC enchantment against
    Path to Exile for Elf or Zoo decks.
    Rest In Peace to stomp down Dredge and Deathrite Shaman and Snapcaster Mage some more
    Absolute Law to make sure Painter's Servant can stay on the Battlefield.
    Another CoP:Red because of Red decks.
    A Warmth to tutor up against Burn decks
    Refraction Trap for RUG Delver

    Pros: You can win mostly any matchup with some practice and skill, some luck helps too.
    Cons: You lose if you don't Painter's Servant combo them 2 games out of 3. (Not counting niche scenarios like for example: you beat them down with Painter's Servant, they kill themselves with Ad Nauseam, they die to Dark Confidant. )
    Last edited by Shax; 01-18-2013 at 09:17 PM.
    Team Shit Sandwich; smelling bad so you don't have to.

  13. #13
    It's an ugly pile of bones... like me.
    clavio's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2004
    Location

    Albany
    Posts

    745

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Pros: You can win mostly any matchup with some practice and skill
    How do you beat storm combo? How do you protect painter's servant from getting killed?

  14. #14

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Long time usually lurker, starting to post, English not as first lenguaje, you know the drill. I had been playing Mighty Quinn in the past as I only a few cards away from this deck I was wondering if it still could be viable in nowadays meta, full of BGx tempo/control/whatever with maindeck Decays and combo starting to come back, as discussion about this deck seems to be dried quite a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shax View Post
    Pros: You can win mostly any matchup with some practice and skill, some luck helps too.
    And, pardon if it sounds rude, no opponent in front of you. Firstly, Imperial Painter has blasts and moons, UR Painter has sorted counters and M. Quinn chants into the combo but you have zero ways to protect one of the most fragile creatures as it dies to almost everything: StP, Bolt, Decay, Dismember, Deed, instant Terminus, any artifact hate, Countertop, any hard counter... and with no other relevant targets in your deck your oppenent will be stocking on those. In second games if somehow it gets extracted, even if RIP and Argivian helps againt, its probably gg as you have literally no other wincons apart from Grindsotne standalone mill. Which will be not enough because, secondly, you have no reliable removal or disruption: you will be assembling Tax-Rack engine into card advantage into maybe a painter win or maybe useless cards and redundant pieces while your opponent will be advancing their game plan: combo will outrun you, fast aggro and tempo will probably also outrun you, control and midrange will stock into disruption. This is because, thirdly, while some cards could steal games on their one like CoP:Red againts burn or RIP against dredge, half of your deck is dead most of the time: Argivian is a nombo with RIP, Abolish being without targets, Celestial Purge and CiP:Red being off color without an active Painter, RIP being just dead and Land Tax being played around.

  15. #15

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shax View Post
    Ya I have a suggestion. Play the real TaxRack deck.

    4 Scroll Rack
    4 Land Tax
    4 Enlightened Tutor
    4 Mox Diamond
    14 Plains
    4 Tithe
    4 Grindstone
    4 Painter's Servant
    3 Rest in Peace
    3 Circle of Protection: Red
    4 Celestial Purge
    4 Argivian Find
    4 Abolish
    SB: 4 Oblivion Ring
    SB: 4 Path to Exile
    SB: 1 Rest in Peace
    SB: 2 Absolute Law
    SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
    SB: 1 Warmth
    SB: 2 Refraction Trap
    In a Storm-heavy meta, would you ever consider [cards]Silence[/card] or Abeyance in the place of the Refraction traps and the Warmth?

  16. #16
    Keep Calm and Brainstorm
    (nameless one)'s Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2009
    Location

    GTA, Ontario
    Posts

    2,878

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Sorry got the delay with the primer. I've been busy with holidays so playtesting has been limited.

    As for the Painter/Stone kill, I find that whenever people see Painter's Servant, it gets killed. It's the only creature you're running and unless your opponent is stupid or out of answers, it will not survive. Also, Emrakul exists.

    Why not run Helm of Obedience? You're already running Rest in Piece. Against aggro; Humility, StP, Terminus.

    Yes, Humility and Helm costs four. This is why I am running City of Traitors (since Mox option is limited in Legacy).

    Against storm, I would usually side in Trinisphere and to some extent Aura of Silence. Aura of Silence slows their mana Mox and Trinisphere explains itself.

    Also, Trinisphere is great against deck that can run with less than three mana.

    So far, what I have on the primer is history and what to considered for the Vintage meta back in 2000 to Legacy now.

    PS. A "combo" deck will not be an established list if it can't win on turn one/two or has a reliable back up plan.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  17. #17

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shax View Post
    Ya I have a suggestion. Play the real TaxRack deck.

    4 Scroll Rack
    4 Land Tax
    4 Enlightened Tutor
    4 Mox Diamond
    14 Plains
    4 Tithe
    4 Grindstone
    4 Painter's Servant
    3 Rest in Peace
    3 Circle of Protection: Red
    4 Celestial Purge
    4 Argivian Find
    4 Abolish
    SB: 4 Oblivion Ring
    SB: 4 Path to Exile
    SB: 1 Rest in Peace
    SB: 2 Absolute Law
    SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
    SB: 1 Warmth
    SB: 2 Refraction Trap

    Have fun.

    When I was playing tax/rack about 6 months ago, it was in something I built that would create a series of board locks. This is the first time I've tried it in more of a combo strategy. I sleeved it and was unimpressed when I initially looked at it but when a sat to matches with it, Wow...

    It isn't as scary as my omni-show but I don't think it is supposed to be. What I like is the ability to catch people off guard and watch the misplays (no, jace can't bounce snapcaster because servant and absolute law are down). Cute goyf, but I'll COP it for now since the servant is down until I draw or tutor a rest in peace.

    I play with really seasoned players who can make a variety of decks (New England) and still watch them rib each other when one lets a scroll rack stick.

    The ability to Argivian find around counter magic and tutor is certainly powerful.

    The weakness I felt the other day was the attempted target of abrupt decay at absolute law. It was keeping the servant safe from a swords at that moment.

    It makes me wonder if there is a benefit to greater auramancy. Also thought of Hanna's custody as I play against a liquid metal coating, artifact destruction decks from time to time.

  18. #18

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Necro time.

    I would like to mingle in this discussion earlier, but didn't play magic for about a year or two. Now I was just browsing the internet and found that Land Tax was unbanned for a year now. This was my cue to come back to the format. I started testing different lists and discussed through private messages with (nameless one).

    I've read through the thread and started testing.

    I've started with a vintage like build, Something like 14 plains, 4 Wasteland, 7 plows, 7 chants, 4 Enlightened Tutors alot of one-offs ed. The deck failed miserably. I had to few lands and really needed Land Tax to get started and didn't get enough out of Landtax because my curve was higher than other decks. The silver bullets I used weren't the best one either. I started testing and the list from (nameless one) seems like a good start.

    Things I found:

    Manabase

    We need to be able to operate on 2/3 lands max to get the max out of Land Tax. If our curve ends on 4 we can't do it only on lands.

    The options found in the thread:

    - Change the curve to end on 3 mana
    - Serra's Sanctum
    - Mox Diamond
    - Extraplanar Lens
    - Lotus Vale/Scorched Ruins
    - City of Traitors/Crystal Vein


    Lets look at them closer:
    Changing the curve to 3 mana max not seems optimal: White has got some very good 4-mana bombs, Elspeth, Knight Errant/Humility foremost. The only kill-condition on 3 mana is Servant, which isn't easy to protect, especially if you have to cast them over more turns.

    Serra's Sanctum gets to late online. I counted the enchantments I had down and only in cornercases It produced 3 mana before I won the game.

    Mox Diamond is I think an auto-inclusion. The only problem is that it might be hard to cast early on if you play to few lands. But later it's very solid because it keeps the landcount low, you have enough lands in hand thanks to Land Tax. You do want to play more then 20 lands though.

    Extraplanar Lens is similar to Lotus Vale. Make more mana with less lands. I keep Scorched Ruins out of the picture, because the need of coloured sources. Both give x for 1 when destroyed. If you look at the development over the first turns Lostus Vale is better: You got 3 mana on turn 3, while you have to tap out for Extraplanar Lens. In multiples there quite even too. 2 Vales against 2 Lens and 2 plains each give 6-mana. Vale only require extra turns to get in to play.

    The next question is removal: Extraplanar Lens is a little easier to remove: it can be discarded and there is some more removal to it then Lotus Vale. Destroying Lotus Vale is a 3 for 1 instead of a 2 for 1.

    Looking at the tierdecks I rather play Lotus Vale. I found the third turn to important to tap out for Extraplanar Lens. I also found it easier to protect Lotus Vale (Pithing Needle on Wasteland.)

    City of Traitors or Crystal Veins. Also a solid option. In my opinion City of Traitors is superior to Crystal Veins. Being able to tap 2 mana in 2 turns is better. If you don't need the two mana just don't play City of Traitors.

    So the manabase should be something like:

    3-4 Mox Diamond
    3-4 Lotus Vale
    13-14 Lands
    4 City of Traitors

    The lands could be basics combined with Ghost Quarters. I don't like Ghost Quarters but with the new legendary rules it might be needed to destroy some utility lands.

    It is very weird for a deck that can work on so few lands you need so many sources. But actually it's 18 lands, because Mox Diamond and Lotus Vale can't be count as lands. On top of that Land Tax main task is to gain card-advantage and not to fix the manabase. Also is it easier to play through land-flood instead of land-screw.

    Looking at draw additionaly next to Land Tax-Scroll Rack. The best option is Sensei's Divinig Top. Everybody agree's that. Another option would be to splash blue for Jace, the mindsculptor. Brainstorm isn't a optimal fit in the deck. You lack fetchlands and you want white mana early on.

    So let say

    4 Scroll Rack
    4 Land Tax
    2 Sensei's Divining Top

    Another discussion I found were the number of Enlightened Tutor. There are two solid points: 1) You have to play 4 because you want to see them every game or 2) You have to play less then four, because multiple sucks. I myself play 4 and would that suggest that. Sure having 2 in the openinghand sucks, but after that you just tutor for Scroll Rack and shuffle the other one away. So the card is never dead in your hand.

    4 Enlightened Tutor

    Spot Removal

    Swords to Plowshare vs. Path to Exile. Another though choice, both are great. Swords to Plowshare always has the same minor drawback. Path to Exile has sometimes a bigger drawback, sometimes no drawback(if the opponent can't/won't find a land) sometimes an advantage. I think the choice depends alot on the decks you will face. Against decks with Vial and cheap creatures Path to Exile is normally better, the opponent can't really abuse the excess in lands. Against aggro-control decks it might be dangerous to give them the mana.

    Another pro I find on Path to Exile is that it seems better post-board. Opponents will try to play around Land Tax and Path to Exile can fight this.

    So in short:
    4 Swords to Plowshare / Path to Exile
    3/4 Terminus

    I think this is the core of the deck. The rest isn't strict. We have room for some utility and we need to win the game. Lets start with Utility. The best cards are Humility, Pithing Needle and Oblivion Ring. Humility is better than Moat because of al the utility creatures running around. Combined they are really good, but if you can put down one it would be Humility. Pithing Needle is needed to fight Wasteland. Getting your Lotus Vale wasted is sad. But using it on Planeswalker isn't a bad thing too. Oblivion Ring is the best we got as a catch-all. For the rest it depends on your meta, if you want to play Isochron Scepter, Moat, SmokeStack, Rule of Law, Trinisphere, Circle of Protection be my guest. But if you won't know what to expect I would suggest Humility, Pithing Needle and Oblivion Ring. A little metadependent but almost always solid is Rest in Peace. It stops some strategies of top-decks stone-cold, it also give you the option to play Helm of Obidience.

    Kill conditions should finish the game fast and are hard to stop. Normaly Goblin Belcher was used with Sacred Mesa. Because we want to keep the mana down, I rather play Elspeth, Knight Errant now then Sacred Mesa. Sure when you can create 6 mana a turn at least Sacred Mesa is solid. But with Elspeth, Knight Errant you just need to spend 4 mana once and you're good to go.

    Goblin Charbelcher is still possible. I wouldn't play other utility lands if you want to do it reliable. it costs 7 mana if you're lucky. But sometimes it takes 2 or 3 turns to win and that might be too slow.

    If you play Rest in Peace anyway, Helm of Obidience is very solid too. Only problem is that it's kinda bad on it's own. Although I once was lucky with Emrakul.

    Painter Servant / Grind Stone isn't for this deck I believe. both pieces are bad on there own. Game one the opponent will likely have a hand for creature removal for creatures. You need Orim's Chant to protect it and 7 mana to pull it off. It also fails to Emrakul.

    Other card choices I've seen are Balancing Act or Cataclysm. Both aren't optimal in this deck. Balancing Act is just a weak card in this deck, you have to much permanents. Even if you got a light board of Lotus Vale, Mox Diamond, Land Tax and Scroll Rack it's still quite weak. Opponents just keep 2 creatures and 2 lands and you are still loosing.

    Cataclysm is very solid on paper, but in reality not so good. First you don't play creatures, so never can take full effect of it. Lots of deck can live with it, as long as they don't overextend. I'm just afraid I will stare down a Island+Aether Vial+Merfolk or Land+Counterbalance+Sensei's Divining Top or something.

    The biggest flaw we might need to adress is the fast combo-matchup. Pre-board it's probably horrible having very few answers for it. Sure you can run cards like Rule of Law or Trinisphere MD but does that really stop them? Post-board they will board in bounce but hopefully we can board enough cards to stop them.

    Another weak matchup I found in testing was Counterbalance. Our curve isn't that good against them. Needle on Top helps a little, but need to be played before hand.

    If we can shore up our weakest matchups this should be a tier 2 deck at least I think.

    Any comments?

  19. #19

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    So does the new orb of something from dominaria make it into our deck? It's the one that hoses big Mana decks and storm. Also I played a silent gravestone in my legacy deck this weekend and holy hell it was good. It hit snapcaster, Drs, reanimator, etc. Should we throw a one of main board?

    Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

  20. #20

    Re: [Deck] W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by hurlman81 View Post
    So does the new orb of something from dominaria make it into our deck? It's the one that hoses big Mana decks and storm. Also I played a silent gravestone in my legacy deck this weekend and holy hell it was good. It hit snapcaster, Drs, reanimator, etc. Should we throw a one of main board?

    Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk
    About the new card, I don't really care for it mainly because decks that play sol lands are usually not very good against us (most have no counterspell and thus leave us open to etutor whatever locks them out). I'm also fine letting my opponent cast big eldrazi and stuff only to wrath the board next. Storm isn't the best pre-board but we have enough tools to make it even post-board already. I don't believe it's a matchup that needs more fixing.

    Maybe I'm missing something but what does Gravestone do for us that RIP doesn't do better already? It seems like a waste of a slot since I play 7 RIP + 4 chants.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)