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Thread: [Deck] Hypergenesis

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    [Deck] Hypergenesis

    Hypergenesis Primer

    I. Overview
    II. History
    III. Decklist
    IV. Card Choices

    a.) Manabase
    b.) Acceleration
    c.) Cascade Spells
    d.) Win Conditions
    e.) Protection/Utility
    V. Reasons to Play Hypergenesis over other “Unfair Decks”
    a.) Sneak and Show
    b.) Reanimator
    c.) Storm Decks
    d.) Dredge
    VI. Sample Hands and Sample Plays
    a.) Sample Hand One
    b.) Sample Hand Two
    c.) Sample Hand Three
    d.) Sample Hand Four
    e.) Sample Hands for You
    VII. Match-ups
    VIII. Additional Information

    a.) Major Tournament Reports
    b.) Feature Matches
    c.) Articles


    I. Overview

    As of late there has been a rash of deck archetypes designed around putting a creature so powerful into play that an opponent cannot conceivably deal with this single threat. A handful of these decks would be Reanimator, Sneak and Show, and now Hypergenesis. All of these decks take advantage of cards like Reanimate, Exhume, Show and Tell, Sneak Attack, and/or Through the Breach. For those of you that are sick of having your reanimated fatties removed promptly after plopping them into play, or your Emrakuls Gilded Draked away or those of you just sick of playing “fair decks,” I suggest coming to the dark (or darker) side that is Hypergenesis.

    The general idea of the Hypergenesis deck is to play the same style game as a Sneak and Show player; yet, at a larger level. Sure you can set your sights on playing one crazy creature from your hand or you could dump a hand full of awesome dudes onto the board. While one of your threats will likely be enough to win the game, this deck lets you completely overwhelm your opponent by putting multiple game-winners into play. This style deck sidesteps the issue faced by Reanimator… graveyard hate. It also outmaneuvers fair decks that try to steal a Sneak and Show players fatty with a Gilded Drake or Sower of Temptation. It also plays a large suite of counter magic to keep its combo safe and its opponents in check.


    II. History and Deck Evolution

    As a competitive version of this deck is fairly new to the Legacy scene, this section will be rather short. The concept has been around since the printing of the deck’s namesake card Hypergenesis in the 2006 Time Spiral expansion. The concept has been alive longer due to cards like Eureka and Show and Tell. However a few years later, with the printing of cascade cards in the 2009 Alara Reborn expansion such as Violent Outburst, Bloodbraid Elf, and Demonic Dread a convenient means to “cheat” Hypergenesis’s suspend mechanic were now readily available. This was all well and good, but as WotC continued to push the envelope of powerful creatures, crazy and powerful duders such as Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (Rise of the Eldrazi, 2010), Progenitus (Conflux, 2009), and Griselbrand (Avacyn Restored, 2012) were printed. This potentially pushed this deck to a level of playability in competitive events.

    Early on in the development of this deck, it played four colors. This was to play the three necessary colors for the cascade spells: green, black, and red… but blue was added as a means to protect the deck’s combo. This meant the deck sometimes durdled due to its shaky manabase.

    Then in the 2012 Planchase deck series, a few new cards were released, one of which fits perfectly into the above shell. It had the perfect mana cost for the build and also in the desired colors. Shardless Agent was exactly what this deck needed to get off the ground. It streamlined the mana costs of the deck. It also played into the desired colors (RUG) and allowed for the removal of black. This made the mana base more reliable. So without further ado the deck:


    III. Decklists

    Hypergenesis, 5th Place SCG Open Columbus 2012, Todd Anderson

    Maindeck
    4 Shardless Agent
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Force of Will
    4 Misdirection
    4 Violent Outburst
    4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    4 Griselbrand
    2 Maelstrom Wanderer
    4 Progenitus
    2 Hypergenesis
    4 Show and Tell
    1 Forest
    1 Island
    1 Mountain
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Scalding Tarn
    1 Taiga
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Volcanic Island
    4 Wooded Foothills

    Sideboard
    1 Ingot Chewer
    3 Terastodon
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    4 Leyline of the Void
    3 Dismember

    Hypergenesis, 58th Place SCG Open Columbus 2012, Kaitlin Lindburg

    Maindeck
    4 Shardless Agent
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Force of Will
    4 Misdirection
    4 Violent Outburst
    4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    4 Griselbrand
    2 Akroma’s Memorial
    4 Progenitus
    2 Hypergenesis
    4 Show and Tell
    1 Forest
    1 Island
    1 Mountain
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Scalding Tarn
    1 Taiga
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Volcanic Island
    4 Wooded Foothills

    Sideboard
    3 Terastodon
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Dismember

    As you can see from these two lists, the choices for giving your team haste have been Maelstrom Wanderer and Akroma’s Memorial. The sideboards also differ slightly but share many of the same cards. I guess that question you have to ask yourself would be is another body more powerful than all of the abilities on the memorial. That would probably change depending upon your specific match up and also your overall metagame.


    IV. Card Choices

    a.) Manabase - Obliviously this deck is a three color list. But unlike many other tricolored decks out there, it only runs one of each dual land. Also interestingly it runs one of each basic land. Both of these points are to allow flexibility of early game board development, while also keeping it protected versus all of the Wastelands that run rampant in Legacy. Furthermore, you will notice that only 16 lands are played. This is because the deck only needs to hit three mana to function. Once that happens the deck should basically autopilot itself.

    b.) Acceleration - This deck also runs 4 Simian Spirit Guide and 4 Elvish Spirit Guide. These allow for exceptionally explosives starts. It is normal for the deck to combo on turn three. However it has the potential to go off on turn one or two. Against most decks out there, this will be too much for them to handle. Also these guys can be dropped right into play after a Hypergenesis to act as additional attackers. Furthermore they are really the only pieces of acceleration that do not get cascaded into. That means they don’t break your chain on the way to Hypergenesis like most other accelerants would.

    c.) Cascade Spells - 4 Violent Outburst and 4 Shardless Agent are the general engine for this deck. Some versions also run a few Maelstrom Wanderer, although he is going to be far less consistent than the above two cards. The three mana cascaders guarantee that you cascade until you hit Hypergenesis and then combo off.

    d.) Win Conditions - You cast one of your eight, three-mana cascade cards mentioned above, either Violent Outburst or Shardless Agent, which allow you to cascade. The deck is designed to only hit Hypergenesis when you cascade. This is true of both the maindeck and sideboard and is an extremely important consideration when deciding on any card in the 75 (you wouldn’t want to cascade for your win and accidently hit say a Brainstorm or Daze). At that point you can put Emrakul, Griselbrand, and/or Progenitus into play (plus whatever else you want… extra lands, extra spirit guides, and/or your haste condition, etc.). This play should lead to an attack that either wins you the win on the spot or puts you in a position to win in the next few turns.

    e.) Protection/Utility - As for protecting this sequence of plays from all of the scary counter magic out there in the Legacy landscape, the deck packs a whopping 8 free “counterspells.” Force of Will is a no-brainer for this format, while the underdog Misdirection also a great piece of protection for this deck. As you can Misdirect a counterspell (say and opposing Force of Will) back at itself, they essentially function as Force of Wills 5-8. This should give you the edge in many counter wars, as you will likely have twice the number of free way to interact with you opponent. You also have spirit guides, which can be ditched to pay for Dazes and Spell Pierces assuming you have enough of them. They can also help protect the deck’s key combo in some special other circumstances.

    As a backup you can always just Show and Tell a big dude… that is pretty straightforward and also tends to win games.

    Additionally, it is worth mentioning that once you have a Griselbrand on the table, it is very likely that you can draw 7 or 14 cards and then proceed to combo again to either win or just to make your on board position even better.

    f.) Sideboard Options - As this deck has just really come onto the scene, the sideboards are early in their construction. I would wager that there are more options for the sideboard but they have yet to be discovered and experimented with. I generally don’t believe in just following a sideboard guide that another person gives you. It detracts from the learning and understanding experience that comes with higher level Magic. Therefore I will outline the cards in the sideboards above. You can make the decision about how to board on your own. However let’s get right to it!

    Ingot Chewer is for use against decks that are artifact based (MUD or Affinity) or for the occasional problem artifact like Ensaring Bridge or Trinisphere. These cards can keep your fatties from attacking or tax you extra mana on your cascaded spell. Neither of which is something you want to deal with. Obviously, he can either be evoked, cast, or potentially just Hypergenesised right into play.

    Terastodon serves basically the same purpose as Ingot Chewer but gets to do so on a broader scale. For example, if Ingot Chewer is Sneak and Show, then Terastodon is Hypergenesis. It is more powerful and is broader in its applications. The ‘Don can take out pesky non-creature permanents that prevent you from attacking or comboing. That coupled with his ability to nuke land make him particularly dangerous. He can color or straight land lock your opponent or conversely take out your own lands to generate up to 18 power that given the right hand can attack right away. Yet another pretty scary interaction this deck can churn out.

    Leyline of Sanctity protects you from a few different angles of attack. First it protects your combo from targeted discard. This keeps you safe from likely the most disruptive means of opposing attack and potentially blanks multiple cards in an opponent’s deck. It also keeps you safe from burn in decks like RUG Delver, U/R Delver, and of course Burn. It can also stave of combos like ANT and TES by protecting you from win condition cards like Tendril of Agony and Grapeshot. This can buy you turns or straight up win you these matches. A fun side note, this deck can still sneak this into play even without the white mana with both Show and Tell and Hypergenesis. So this card is never dead like it is in many other decks that don’t open with it.

    Leyline of the Void is this decks only real viable form of graveyard hate. Most decks play Tormod’s Crypt, Relic of Progenitus, Surgical Extraction, among others. These cards all fall into the unplayable “less than 3” mana cost range for this deck. Remember we don’t want to cast a cascader and fail to hit a Hypergenesis and instead hit a piece of graveyard hate. Therefore we are left with Leyline of the Void. This card single-handedly and win games against most of the graveyard based decks in the format. Again note, this deck can still play this even without the black mana with both Show and Tell and Hypergenesis. So this card is never dead like it is in many other decks that don’t open with it.

    Dismember is the deck’s choice piece of removal. It is safe from being cascaded into and can be played on the cheap. This would be exceptionally useful against anti-combo cards like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Aethersworn Canonist. The later can be played around with the new Shardless Agent but for cases where you don’t have that guy, removing your opponent’s hate bear seems really good.


    V. Reasons to Hypergenesis over other “Unfair Decks”

    a.) Sneak and Show - The major reason to play Hypergenesis over Sneak and Show deck would be the advantage of the additional creatures. Players have adapted to the [/cards]Show and Tell[cards]ed Emrakul with cards like Gilded Drake and Sower of Temptation. This means you can combo but still have a good chance at your opponent being prepared for it. With Hypergenesis, you have more options as far as playing multiple creatures, which means you are less likely to just get blown out, due to your opponents sideboard tech. Both decks operate on the same type of clock. Both tend to go off around turn three but can earlier. As far getting trumped by your opponent, since you can play lands and spirit guides, if you put your opponent on having a steal or swap effect… you can lead with these lower impact cards to blank their answers.

    b.) Reanimator - Reanimator is likely a turn faster than this deck a fair share of the time, but they only get to pick one creature. [cards]Hypergenesis[cards] can land multiple threats and they can be hasted. So while Reanimator may be faster to combo, they are still likely slower to close the game. Additionally we do not have to worry about all of that graveyard hate that these players would have to deal with post board.

    c.) Storm Decks - Here is my argument for ease of play. I love to play storm decks… particularly TES every now and then. Yet, playing a large scale tourney with a deck of that nature is very mentally taxing. Hypergenesis is likely on the same level of speed as most of these decks (ANT and TES are probably about the same while High Tide is likely a turn or maybe two slower), but is much more of an auto-pilot type experience. You hit your cascade spell… find the deck’s key spell, and drop dudes into play. You don’t have to worry about counting much higher than 3 in terms of mana, you don’t have to count your spells, and you don’t have to fret nearly as much about counterspells. You choices as far as counters go are 1) can I counter back? and/or 2) can I try to cascade again next turn? This is assuming your opponent counters your Hypergenesis and not the spell with cascade. These are far simpler questions to ask yourself.

    d.) Dredge - This is similar to the analysis to Reanimator. If they don’t have the nuts on turn one (Faithless Looting into the Flashback off of Lion’s Eye Diamond into multiple dredgers with hot dredges), you are likely faster. You also have better mid/late game that should just take theirs out of contention. Again we don’t have to deal with graveyard hate post-board. Dredge can be either slowed or completely stopped by the particular grave-hate card used.


    VI. Sample Hands and Sample Plays

    a.) Sample Hand One: Elvish Spirit Guide, Misty Rainforest, Show and Tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Taiga, Shardless Agent, Force of Will
    [Keep]

    Turn 1: Play Misty Rainforest and pass (fetch at end of turn or during your upkeep depending opposing deck. Target also depends on the likelihood of Wastelands being played).
    Turn 2: Play Taiga, pitch Elvish Spirit Guide, tap for UGx and cast Shardless Agent. Cascade into Hypergenesis. Put Emrakul into play. You have Force of Will back up. You likely win in next two turns.

    b.) Sample Hand Two: Griselbrand, Scalding Tarn, Island, Hypergenesis, Violent Outburst, Misdirection, Force of Will
    [Keep]

    If you draw a land or mana source you likely win on turn 2-3.

    Turn 1: Play Scalding Tarn and Pass.
    Turn 2: Draw Forest. Play Island and Pass. Fetch at end of turn providing it is safe.
    Turn 3. Play Forest and cast Violent Outburst. Cascade into Hypergenesis. Put Griselbrand into play. Draw 7 or 14 cards. Potentially combo again. If you can’t discard the Hypergenesis and an Emrakul and shuffle them back into your deck for another go next turn.

    c.) Sample Hand Three: Hypergenesis, Island, Forest, Emrakul, Force of Will, Simian Spirit Guide, Hypergenesis
    [Mulligan]

    Both Hypergenesises are in you opener meaning you can’t cascade into anything. This is the nut low…

    d.) Sample Hand Four: Shardless Agent, Emrakul, Progenitus, Wooded Foothills, Violent Outburst, Force of Will, Misdirection
    [Arguable]

    I would likely mulligan. You need to hit back to back land or mana sources. Otherwise this hand does nothing. I would go back but if you are on the draw and/or playing against a slow deck it might be doable.

    e.) Sample Hands For You
    Coming Soon!


    VII. Match-ups
    Coming Soon!


    VIII. Additional Information

    a.) Major Tournament Reports

    b.) Feature Matches

    c.) Articles
    http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...he_Top_64.html
    http://starcitygames.com/events/cove...s_with_ge.html
    Last edited by Sturtzilla; 01-26-2013 at 11:37 PM.

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    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    Reserved for additional material! Thanks for reading!

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    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    Nice read. I have been playing the hypergenesis deck for a while now. sample hand c.) where you have 2 hypergenesis in hand is not an auto-mulligan. If you are playing against a fair deck. you can 1st or 2nd turn suspend the hypergenesis, and 3 turns later drop emrakul and hopefully some other friends (from the draws). The worst hand possible, are the ones with no mana producers.

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    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    Fair enough. It does seem fairly poor to me, but I guess against some decks, suspending might be a decent way to go. And yes, hands with no mana sources are pretty bad. Thanks for reading and your input!

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    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    I'm still wondering why the Violent Outburst over Ardent Plea? The Plea is another blue card you can pitch to Force of Will or Misdirection. Is there something I'm missing?

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    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    Quote Originally Posted by TerribleTim68 View Post
    I'm still wondering why the Violent Outburst over Ardent Plea? The Plea is another blue card you can pitch to Force of Will or Misdirection. Is there something I'm missing?
    It allows for a 3 colour mana-base R/U/G which is much better. Here's a quote from the primer:

    "Then in the 2012 Planchase deck series, a few new cards were released, one of which fits perfectly into the above shell. It had the perfect mana cost for the build and also in the desired colors. Shardless Agent was exactly what this deck needed to get off the ground. It streamlined the mana costs of the deck. It also played into the desired colors (RUG) and allowed for the removal of black. This made the mana base more reliable."

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    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    Quote Originally Posted by TerribleTim68 View Post
    I'm still wondering why the Violent Outburst over Ardent Plea? The Plea is another blue card you can pitch to Force of Will or Misdirection. Is there something I'm missing?
    Violent Outburst plays better with the green and red mana that can be produced by both spirit guides. Ardent Plea can be pitched to Force of Will or Misdirection, but is marginally more difficult to accelerate into due to its white mana requirement and the lack of a white spirit guide. So I guess you could run Ardent Plea in place of Violent Outburst to have more FoW fodder at the cost of some speed. Ardent Plea and Violent Outburst both are more used as enablers rather than what the actual spell itself does. They are the spark that lets you Cascade into your Hypergenesis. Essentially, you are paying 3 to drop your fatties into play, not necessarily for the +1/+0 or the Exalted.

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    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    Also Violent Outburst/RUG Version is much better because both of the Spirit Guides have Colors in the RUG Cascade cards, where the W version does not. Also If you are playing with Maelstrom Wanderer, the +1/+0 ability is much better than Pleas exalted Ability, giving a few hasted dudes a very small boost (not that it matters too much). Also with Rug you can run some cheap artifact hate (Ingot Chewer) for things like Ensnaring Bridge.

    Only thing that the W version gives you is 4 additional cards to pitch to Force/Misdirection. One of the spirit guides then becomes worthless making going off much slower due to always needing a plains/tundra to go off.

    (Strutzilla beat me to it)

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    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    Ok, there it is, that's what I overlooked. The Violent Outburst is the color of your accelerators, which takes precedence in this case. Thanks guys!

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    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    Much more important than anything these other folks have said is that Violent Outburst is an instant, so you can cast it end of turn into a counterspell, then untap and cast another cascade spell.

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    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    I have some questions.
    First of all, I must admit that I have tested this deck only in MagicWorkStation for around 100 games, and not in real life. I missed some cards. And in MWS the results are dramatically bad. 16 lands cost me many many mulligans, to 5 or 4 cards until I resign. Maybe in real life I'll have other results... So, from your experience, 16 lands, is a number you can trust ? Compared to other Hypergenesis decklist I found in TC Decks, most of them play 19!!!

    Question 2 : I believe that the major problem of this deck is the "deck manipulation". You cant search for anything, because -almost- all the searchers & drawers cost less than 3 mana, and as you know there is a conflict here with Hypergenesis. So, how do you react when you have missing combo parts in your hand? (especially the Cascade spells, that are only 8 ) or when you have nothing good in your opening 7 ? Have you lost many games because of this ? I just remind that Intuition or Gifts Ungiven or Thirst for Knowledge could deserve a slot in there.

    Question 3 : Ok, we have no searchers here, but we have Griselbrand. A great great draw-engine. But you have to pay 7 lives.... mmm... why dont you try it for free? You prefer and you spent a slot for Akroma's Memorial which is a great card, Todd Andersson prefers Maelstrom Wanderer because its blue and can pitched to FoW, I say... Why not Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur ? He is blue, IF survives he gives you 7 for free, and can really destroy your opponent. I believe both Akroma's and Maelstrom are very weak if its the only heavy creature-target in your hand, for Show and Tell or a Cascade spell. But Jin-Gitaxias? Yes I would play Show and tell just for him. I follow the steps of Reanimator.
    If i had to play Maelstrom or Akroma's Memorial, I would definitely play Rune-Scarred Demon. Putting 1 into play with Hypergenesis, causes to put all 4 copies, and as final creature the Maelstrom for attack.


    Question 4 : Why all the 8 Spirits ? Spirits are good only if you have ALL the combo parts in your hand : 1 cascade spell, and at least 1 heavy Creature. If you don't, its a dead card. How many times Spirits have stucked in your hands ? I understand the speed they give, because I have won many times, but... do you really want to play with possibilities? Or built something more reliable ?

    My final thought is that if you want to play Hypergenesis, you must be a lucky person generally. This deck is 100% LUCK. Your starting hand decides if you win or lose, and you cant do nothing to change your fate.

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    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    Quote Originally Posted by MeddlingMageGR View Post
    Question 3 : Ok, we have no searchers here, but we have Griselbrand. A great great draw-engine. But you have to pay 7 lives.... mmm... why dont you try it for free? You prefer and you spent a slot for Akroma's Memorial which is a great card, Todd Andersson prefers Maelstrom Wanderer because its blue and can pitched to FoW, I say... Why not Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur ? He is blue, IF survives he gives you 7 for free, and can really destroy your opponent. I believe both Akroma's and Maelstrom are very weak if its the only heavy creature-target in your hand, for Show and Tell or a Cascade spell. But Jin-Gitaxias? Yes I would play Show and tell just for him. I follow the steps of Reanimator.
    If i had to play Maelstrom or Akroma's Memorial, I would definitely play Rune-Scarred Demon. Putting 1 into play with Hypergenesis, causes to put all 4 copies, and as final creature the Maelstrom for attack.
    You should clarify the rules of the game to yourself. The demon interaction you described is plain wrong.

    Jin-gitaxias was a good creature before Griselbrand was printed. It is not a clock, doesn't necessarily draw anything and dies to almost everything. You need to play scary monsters.

    In my opinion the best haste enabler is Flame-kin zealot, as it ensures that you get haste. Wanderer looks really shitty.
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  13. #13

    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    Quote Originally Posted by MeddlingMageGR View Post
    I have some questions.
    First of all, I must admit that I have tested this deck only in MagicWorkStation for around 100 games, and not in real life. I missed some cards. And in MWS the results are dramatically bad. 16 lands cost me many many mulligans, to 5 or 4 cards until I resign. Maybe in real life I'll have other results... So, from your experience, 16 lands, is a number you can trust ? Compared to other Hypergenesis decklist I found in TC Decks, most of them play 19!!!
    It's your style of play that dictates how many mana producers you want in the deck. but based on my preference, I think 16 lands and 8 spirit guides allow the deck to run smooth without being flooded or droughted.

    Question 2 : I believe that the major problem of this deck is the "deck manipulation". You cant search for anything, because -almost- all the searchers & drawers cost less than 3 mana, and as you know there is a conflict here with Hypergenesis. So, how do you react when you have missing combo parts in your hand? (especially the Cascade spells, that are only 8 ) or when you have nothing good in your opening 7 ? Have you lost many games because of this ? I just remind that Intuition or Gifts Ungiven or Thirst for Knowledge could deserve a slot in there.
    I think the deck does not need any deck manipulation at all since it is pretty redundant. All you need is one monster (1 out of 12-14), one cascade spell or show and tell (1 out of 12) and you are pretty much good to go. I see each opening hand as a puzzle. you want 3 mana producers, one monster, and one cascade/show and tell. basically with muligans, if 3 pieces of the puzzle is missing you ship back your hand. If 2 pieces of the puzzle is missing you ship your hand. If one piece of the puzzle is missing, do a little math and probability. I usally keep, since the deck is redundant enough to draw for answer and improve you chances.

    Question 3 : Ok, we have no searchers here, but we have Griselbrand. A great great draw-engine. But you have to pay 7 lives.... mmm... why dont you try it for free? You prefer and you spent a slot for Akroma's Memorial which is a great card, Todd Andersson prefers Maelstrom Wanderer because its blue and can pitched to FoW, I say... Why not Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur ? He is blue, IF survives he gives you 7 for free, and can really destroy your opponent. I believe both Akroma's and Maelstrom are very weak if its the only heavy creature-target in your hand, for Show and Tell or a Cascade spell. But Jin-Gitaxias? Yes I would play Show and tell just for him. I follow the steps of Reanimator.
    If i had to play Maelstrom or Akroma's Memorial, I would definitely play Rune-Scarred Demon. Putting 1 into play with Hypergenesis, causes to put all 4 copies, and as final creature the Maelstrom for attack.
    Jin-Gitaxias is nice altho, somewhat weeker than griselbrand. It can be killed on the spot, while griselbrand can in respose draw 7 and protect itself.
    Runes-Scarred Demon triggers after hypergenesis resloves thus allowing to tutor for another one, but not being able to put it in play.


    Question 4 : Why all the 8 Spirits ? Spirits are good only if you have ALL the combo parts in your hand : 1 cascade spell, and at least 1 heavy Creature. If you don't, its a dead card. How many times Spirits have stucked in your hands ? I understand the speed they give, because I have won many times, but... do you really want to play with possibilities? Or built something more reliable ?
    the 8 spirits are used for speed, you can combo out 1st or 2nd turn. don't forget you can hypergenesis them in play as well and use them as attackers or chump blockers.

    My final thought is that if you want to play Hypergenesis, you must be a lucky person generally. This deck is 100% LUCK. Your starting hand decides if you win or lose, and you cant do nothing to change your fate.
    yes luck plays a factor, a little math and common sense goes a long way as well. you can also catch a lot of people of guard, if they don't know how to play against this type of deck. The reason it does well right now, because it beats rug delver, sneak and show and most blue based deck. It has tough match up against Maverick.

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    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopo View Post
    You should clarify the rules of the game to yourself. The demon interaction you described is plain wrong.

    Jin-gitaxias was a good creature before Griselbrand was printed. It is not a clock, doesn't necessarily draw anything and dies to almost everything. You need to play scary monsters.

    In my opinion the best haste enabler is Flame-kin zealot, as it ensures that you get haste. Wanderer looks really shitty.
    You are correct. Demon's triggered ability cannot resolve when he comes into play from Hypergenesis. I also agree that Flame-Kin Zealot is better than Wanderer. But as for your second comment, I didnt compare Jin-Gitaxias with Griselbrand. I understand the superiority of Gris. I was speaking about the 2 last creature spots, beyond the 4 Griselbrand, 4 Emrakuls, and 4 Progenitus. Todd plays the crappy Wanderer. The chick plays Akroma's Memorial. Both are failure. Because noone will play them with Show and Tell. So I thought about Gitaxias. Both Gitaxias and any other creature in his place (beyond the 12 known creatures I said before), have the same possibilities to get a Sword or any other removal. BUT If he survives (that's we have Force of Will) opponent loses his hand and the game, and you get 7 cards. Its far far more dangerous than Wanderer and Memorial. Plus, its blue.

  15. #15
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    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    Quote Originally Posted by MeddlingMageGR View Post
    First of all, I must admit that I have tested this deck only in MagicWorkStation for around 100 games, and not in real life. I missed some cards. And in MWS the results are dramatically bad. 16 lands cost me many many mulligans, to 5 or 4 cards until I resign. Maybe in real life I'll have other results... So, from your experience, 16 lands, is a number you can trust ? Compared to other Hypergenesis decklist I found in TC Decks, most of them play 19!!!
    Well in my experience it seems to work out pretty well. Having 16 land and all 8 spirit guides generally is enough. You don't need to hit more than three mana really. Sure extra helps to pay for Daze and Spell Pierce, but drawing lands is drawing dead in many match ups. Plus you have your own counter magic to deal with those. You say you are missing cards on MWS... which ones are you missing? I would expect that if you are missing the wrong ones it could really hurt the deck and its performance.


    Quote Originally Posted by MeddlingMageGR View Post
    Question 2 : I believe that the major problem of this deck is the "deck manipulation". You cant search for anything, because -almost- all the searchers & drawers cost less than 3 mana, and as you know there is a conflict here with Hypergenesis. So, how do you react when you have missing combo parts in your hand? (especially the Cascade spells, that are only 8 ) or when you have nothing good in your opening 7 ? Have you lost many games because of this ? I just remind that Intuition or Gifts Ungiven or Thirst for Knowledge could deserve a slot in there.
    With eight cards in the maindeck that cause the combo to occur you have fairly decent odds of having what you need in your opener. I fully understand where you are coming from. I wouldn't write off Intuition as a possibility for this deck. It could help you fix poor draws, help fight through heavy counter magic, and even make Hypergenesis better in certain circumstances by cherry picking the right guy. I think your other suggestions are fairly poor. Intuition, however, might be a card to do some testing with.


    Quote Originally Posted by MeddlingMageGR View Post
    Question 3 : Ok, we have no searchers here, but we have Griselbrand. A great great draw-engine. But you have to pay 7 lives.... mmm... why dont you try it for free? You prefer and you spent a slot for Akroma's Memorial which is a great card, Todd Andersson prefers Maelstrom Wanderer because its blue and can pitched to FoW, I say... Why not Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur ? He is blue, IF survives he gives you 7 for free, and can really destroy your opponent. I believe both Akroma's and Maelstrom are very weak if its the only heavy creature-target in your hand, for Show and Tell or a Cascade spell. But Jin-Gitaxias? Yes I would play Show and tell just for him. I follow the steps of Reanimator.
    As stated above, Jin dies to nearly every kind of removal in the format and doesn't ensure that you get to draw cards. Furthermore, he doesn't apply much of a clock to your opponent. He doesn't give haste, which is really what is in question here. The cards you are suggesting are bad are in the deck to give haste. This allows for a Hypergenesis into an instant attack/kill. Honestly, these cards might be more "win-more" and cute than actually necessary. How often is an opponent going to be able to race/answer a turn 1-3 Emrakul, Griselbrand, and/or Progenitus? It seems really unlikely. I could potentially get behind removing the Haste condition. It really reminds me of the 1-of Grapeshot in certain Storm decks sideboards. It is very rarely needed and more often included for showboating or just being demoralizing. Hell, these two slots could become Intuitions to add consistency. I am interested to hear what others think on this point.


    Quote Originally Posted by MeddlingMageGR View Post
    Question 4 : Why all the 8 Spirits ? Spirits are good only if you have ALL the combo parts in your hand : 1 cascade spell, and at least 1 heavy Creature. If you don't, its a dead card. How many times Spirits have stucked in your hands ? I understand the speed they give, because I have won many times, but... do you really want to play with possibilities? Or built something more reliable?
    The likelihood of have one heavy creature (12/60) and one cascade spell (8/60) is basically that of any of the other two-card combo decks in the format (see Reanimator or Sneak and Show). Casting turn one Hypergenesis seems really good to me, so yes I want Spirit Guides. They are, as far as I know, they only/best way to do it... plus as stated in the Primer, they are never totally dead. You can use them as bears when Hypergenesis resolves.


    Quote Originally Posted by MeddlingMageGR View Post
    My final thought is that if you want to play Hypergenesis, you must be a lucky person generally. This deck is 100% LUCK. Your starting hand decides if you win or lose, and you cant do nothing to change your fate.
    This is not true at all. A little math and forethought can allow you to win loads of games. Sure it might be more luck based than some decks but that is sometimes how these function. Do you have to be lucky to play Storm? Maybe... knowing how it works helps a lot. Do you have to be lucky to Belcher? Probably... you are stone dead to FoW game one most of the time. How about decks with Delver? You can't always upkeep Brainstorm. My point is that all decks might have ome luck factor associated with them. If you know your deck and how your opponent's works, then you are way better off. Thus, luck will have less to do with it.

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    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    I can not disagree in nothing of these you state. All seems to be, and are, logical. But, in tournaments you ll never know what you're gonna face. And as you say, you must know your deck and your opponent too. My only "objection" is about the 2 slots, I mean between giving haste and Jin-Gitaxias.
    Even if we do not play any Haste-giving cards, you still can give "haste" to them, by using Violent Outburst and your opponent's EOT. Cascade and Hypergenesis resolves at EOT, you put any of your monsters in game, and "gg" in your next turn. With the same way, you can play Jin-Gitaxias too. So his ability for opponent's maximum hand size resolves first. In the first 1-2 turns the most likely is your opponent to be tapped out. Holding back some countermagic for secure.
    Lets face a Black Discard deck. You play first, a land. He plays second, Swamp > Thoughtseize. He probably have in hand Duress, or Vindicate or Small/Pox or Liliana. In responce of Thoughtseize, discard 2 Spirit Guides, Violent Outburst > Jin in game. He loses his hand, he is tapped out, and you get 7 new cards for free.

    Ok, it doesn't matter. Maybe its me that I think more defensively. Maybe you're right and play 2 Intuition instead. All the choices have to give something.

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    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    Quick response since I'm going to sleep soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeddlingMageGR View Post
    Question 4 : Why all the 8 Spirits ? Spirits are good only if you have ALL the combo parts in your hand : 1 cascade spell, and at least 1 heavy Creature. If you don't, its a dead card. How many times Spirits have stucked in your hands ? I understand the speed they give, because I have won many times, but... do you really want to play with possibilities? Or built something more reliable ?
    I played Hypergenesis at SCG Seattle and went 5-3. 2 of my game wins were largely in part to those "dead" cards. I'll type up a report in the next few days.

    Edit: Report is up.

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...489#post655489
    Last edited by Whippoorwill; 07-02-2012 at 02:35 PM.

  18. #18

    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    I have a question to all about the mana base of this deck. How important is the basic mountain in this deck? From my testing it seems to be the worse land and I never want to see it. I have replaced it with a 2nd tropical island. The deck has 8 cards that require blue and green and only 4 that require red. Since red and green both have spirit guides I wanted to make sure I am able to find my blue source. In turn I have also changed the fetches to 4 scalding tarn and 2 wooded foothills to make fetching the basic island easier.

    My mana base no looks like this.

    4 scalding tarn
    4 misty rainforest
    2 wooded foothills
    1 island
    1 forest
    2 tropical island
    1 volcanic island
    1 taiga

    I know this change is minimal but I just wanted to see what people thought about it. I am trying to tweak this deck so I can play it at SCG Stl this weekend.

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    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    The 3 basics are to get around Wasteland.

  20. #20
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    Re: [Deck] Hypergenesis

    That change is probably fine but having no basic red source may put you occasionally in some uncomfortable positions.

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