Great idea Jblinder. As soon as I saw people using buried alive with the Phoenix it seemed natural to try to combine it with reanimation strategies.
Loam/Ice Station Zebra/Depths/Jund/GB Pox
My biggest concern is not the power level of phoenix in reanimator strategies, it's that it's hit by all the same hate. It doesn't seem to diversify the deck. Granted, maybe the added consistency is just too good to pass up, but I'll let other people test it and find out for me.
Some ISZ action on camera: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5-64atIQMI
Decklist: https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=20795&f=LE
Ice Station Zebra vs. Czech Pile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5-64atIQMI
Always painful to me to see newer pilots of the deck getting griselbrand onto the table with no mana floating and not immediately cracking LED for BBB (attack first if shallow grave) before drawing. LED is very powerful on the combo turn if used correctly. Start doing this if you’re playing ISZ and not doing it already (and watch your fizzle rate decrease dramatically).
Haven’t yet watched video beyond the first draw 7; had to come back to post this haha.
Been Playing ANT for a while, has tin fins moved from blue and now is a jund or mardu color? or is there still an esper list?
Kind of think this new M20 card veil of summer might be worth sb slots in tin fins lists that can support it. Playing this in response to a ponder on their turn and shallow graving at end of turn seems kind of cool. Countering a thoughtseize and cantripping seems similarly cool. Autumns veil was almost a fringe option but this card actually seems good.
3x Griselbrand
1x Children of Korilis
1x Emrakul, Aeons Torn
1x Tendrils of Agony
4x Lotus Petal
1x Chrome Mox
4x Dark Ritual
4x Brainstorm
4x Careful Study
2x Cabal Therapy
4x Goryo’s Vengeance
4x Entomb
4x Thoughtseize
1x Reanimate
1x Unburial Rites
4x Exhume
4x Daze
2x Underground Sea
1x Scrubland
4x Polluted Delta
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Swamp
1x Island
This is an altered list from a friend of mine. Any thoughts?
Accidentally wrote a reply without quoting--Edited and posted below.
Stuff I feel very strongly about:
Tendrils of Agony does not belong, and should be replaced by 1xCollective Brutailty. Once you have the Children + Griselbrand interaction (the only time Tendrils is reliably good), you will never need a ToA, since you can keep looping through your deck using Emrakul, making more mana every time and eventually hardcasting Emmy for the win. The Collective Brutality is there to still win through a card like Ensnaring Bridge. You use the same infinite deck loop to cast that one CB over and over until your opponent is dead. The key difference is that ToA is very close to a dead draw when you don't have a Griselbrand in play. Collective Brutaily is actually a real magic card.
Shallow Grave is better than both Exhume and Goryo's. Exhume doesn't give haste, can't be cast at instant speed to blow out a Surgical and can't bring back a hasty Emrakul. Goryo's targets and cannot return Children. In this build with no LED, Goryo's is probably the best complement to the auto-4 Shallow Grave.
Stuff I feel less strongly about, but do think will improve the deck:
1 Unburial Rites: A card I never leave home without these days, but all my builds play Lion's Eye Diamond. Without it I expect this card to be way too clunky. You can try it but expect it to vastly underperform. The whole idea is something like turn 1 Dark Ritual, LED, Entomb Unburial Rites...win. In your deck you're going to need a way to first bin Griselbrand, then a bunch of mana and an Entomb for the Rites. It's just not going to happen often, and you'll be mostly sad when you draw this card.
4xCareful Study: Back when Esper lists were the norm, 4 Ponder and 0 CS was the Gold Standard. I started playing CS, and was very happy with it in general, but it becomes a liability post board when the card disadvantage matters more and you don't often want to recklessly throw GB into the yard turn 1 because of surgical. I like a 2 Ponder 2 CS split better. If you do play 4 (and probably even if you play just 1-2) I'd def suggest playing the full 4 Griselbrand as well.
4xDaze: Daze is a card I've tried, and when it works it's fantastic. When it doesn't it's really bad. I don't think Daze is bad, but I think it is in a slot that I'd much prefer to be Unmask. That card is pure gas, and is much more reliable forcing through the combo than Daze. I think it would be really cool to play just one Daze. That way the times you do draw it, the opponent will play around it the rest of the match like you have four, when in reality you'll almost never actually have it. That's good value.
This is what I would suggest given your list as a starting point:
4 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul
1 Children
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Brainstorm
2 Careful Study
2 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
3 Unmask
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Collective Brutality
1 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
4 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Reanimate
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
Please put in some amount of effort. There are scores of pages of discussion about specific cards, deck lists, side boarding strategy, and more. Eight of your nine posts are requests for info or input with no thoughts of your own.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...36#post1070136
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...77#post1070177
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...59#post1070259
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...46#post1071246
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...91#post1071491
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...47#post1071847
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...55#post1071855
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...51#post1071951
Scroll back. Find a Burning Wish list. What do you think of that list? What changes do you think should be made? Why do you think these things?
You have misread me. As someone who has read your entire forum history, this does not shock me.
Google "How to ask good questions." A good question requires effort. You might, for example, provide a deck list, and list the reasons for any non-standard choices, giving other commenters a starting point for their responses. Here is an example of someone doing exactly that, only one page ago. Or you might link an old decklist, then link MTGGoldfish's metagame analysis and ask whether a particular card should be swapped for one that more adequately answers that analysis.
This thread is currently one hundred seventy-three pages long. If you cannot find a way to find some amount of information about the deck, there is nothing that we can do to help you.
All that said, if I had a tournament coming up (and I do) and I wanted to play Tin Fins (and I do) and I hadn't played it in a while (and I haven't), I would play the following.
4 Griselbrand
1 Children of Korlis
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Collective Brutality
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
3 Goryo's Vengeance
2 Reanimate
4 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Chrome Mox
4 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
2 Underground Sea
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Dark Confidant
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Massacre
2 Echoing Truth
1 Serenity
This is quite close to the traditional build. It chooses Collective Brutality over Tendrils of Agony, which takes longer but is better overall. The sideboard is transformative, which is useful to me because I haven't played in a while and it's easier to play something that probably isn't hit by their hate then it is to play against their hate when you don't know what their hate is. The remainder of the sideboard is fairly usual for a combo deck in Esper colors - Massacre to wipe Death and Taxes pus a few ways to get rid of opposing graveyard hate should the transformation not be the best option.
If you have any specific questions, I'd be happy to address them.
eta:
Originally Posted by MScott
People still use the Source? Well, I'll be dipped.
The cool thing about decks that floop Griselbrand into play is that, you can play a list that's a couple years old and it'll do pretty well unless you're playing a meta that's nothing but chalice decks and main deck gy hate.
Heck, most of the Esper lists are pretty much the same, with maybe a few sb slots different (are you playing creatures in the sb or reactive stuff) and a few main deck choices (flex slots being more discard, LDV, preordain, Chrome Mox, etc).
As far as meta considerations, maindeck Narset is rough, but if you're running 7-9 discard spells, you can reliably hit a Narset or just end the game before one hits the field. Otherwise new Teferi makes it hard to reanimate Emrakul, but once again, easy to play around when you can either end the game before t3 or just swing in with Griselbrand, then go infinite with CoBru in your second main.
But for anyone reading this and curious about the deck, the primer is still good, and there's literal years of solid discussion here to answer most questions. Also, the discord is the place to be: https://discord.gg/mq9pQfz Keep in mind, we do still like people adding their thoughts to the discussion, because if you share a list and ask "what do you think?" you're not going to get much discussion because there's nothing stimulating about that question. If you share a list and ask "I'm thinking about playing this list, but I'm uncertain about slots X, y, & Z", that's a great question. Almost every question has been asked, and lots of cards have been tried, so it's worth the time to do some reading.
Tinfins & Bizarro Stormy & Belcher & DDFT
@acclimation6 on twitter
Back to back t1 kills at SCG STL 2013:
https://youtu.be/kk3crCPsNLg
THE GANG'S ALL HERE!
In other news, TinFins is officially a dinosaur deck now:
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
Just kill them before they have enough mana to cast Narset, duh.
Once I was drunk talking about how great Tin Fins was and after the fourth time someone said "how do you beat X?" I realized that my answer to that question would always be to just kill them before it matters.
People get really upset at me when I just tell them my plan to beat X is to just kill them before X is relevant or draw my sideboard cards to deal with X. I have no idea what these people are expecting for a response. I'm not insta-scooping to one card in a vacuum scenario, y'all, I'm playing a fast deck with 8-10 cantrips with general sb answers, theoretically I can beat multiple pieces of hate.
Tinfins & Bizarro Stormy & Belcher & DDFT
@acclimation6 on twitter
Back to back t1 kills at SCG STL 2013:
https://youtu.be/kk3crCPsNLg
Just came here to say that this list sucks. It's like... at least 1 maybe 2 cards different than what I would play in the maindeck. Geez, get with the times. Like, what year is it, 2015? (I keed! <3 u Sam!)
I do think this deck warrants testing Teferi, Time Raveler out of the sideboard though. We're in esper and it's a city of solitude that also can deal with Chalice. What's not to love? Outside of 3 CMC that is.
Also, I'm on board for Dino-train. That card seems great in the SB to me - replaces Phyrexian Devourer that @RichardCheese and I tried 6 years ago. And also it actually got him to post in the thread - anything that does that is net positive in my eyes.
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