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Thread: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

  1. #3441

    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Great idea Jblinder. As soon as I saw people using buried alive with the Phoenix it seemed natural to try to combine it with reanimation strategies.
    Loam/Ice Station Zebra/Depths/Jund/GB Pox

  2. #3442

    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    My biggest concern is not the power level of phoenix in reanimator strategies, it's that it's hit by all the same hate. It doesn't seem to diversify the deck. Granted, maybe the added consistency is just too good to pass up, but I'll let other people test it and find out for me.

  3. #3443

    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Ice Station Zebra vs. Czech Pile:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5-64atIQMI

  4. #3444

    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by YIGIT View Post

    Always painful to me to see newer pilots of the deck getting griselbrand onto the table with no mana floating and not immediately cracking LED for BBB (attack first if shallow grave) before drawing. LED is very powerful on the combo turn if used correctly. Start doing this if you’re playing ISZ and not doing it already (and watch your fizzle rate decrease dramatically).

    Haven’t yet watched video beyond the first draw 7; had to come back to post this haha.

  5. #3445
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Been Playing ANT for a while, has tin fins moved from blue and now is a jund or mardu color? or is there still an esper list?

  6. #3446

    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Kind of think this new M20 card veil of summer might be worth sb slots in tin fins lists that can support it. Playing this in response to a ponder on their turn and shallow graving at end of turn seems kind of cool. Countering a thoughtseize and cantripping seems similarly cool. Autumns veil was almost a fringe option but this card actually seems good.

  7. #3447

    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by MScott View Post
    Been Playing ANT for a while, has tin fins moved from blue and now is a jund or mardu color? or is there still an esper list?
    Esper tin fins is still perfectly playable. I tend to think the LED versions, specifically Ice Station Zebra and Burning Fins are a little better, but Brainstorm is a helluva drug. Just go back a few pages; I’m sure there are some Esper lists.

  8. #3448
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    3x Griselbrand
    1x Children of Korilis
    1x Emrakul, Aeons Torn
    1x Tendrils of Agony
    4x Lotus Petal
    1x Chrome Mox
    4x Dark Ritual
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Careful Study
    2x Cabal Therapy
    4x Goryo’s Vengeance
    4x Entomb
    4x Thoughtseize
    1x Reanimate
    1x Unburial Rites
    4x Exhume
    4x Daze
    2x Underground Sea
    1x Scrubland
    4x Polluted Delta
    4x Bloodstained Mire
    1x Swamp
    1x Island


    This is an altered list from a friend of mine. Any thoughts?

  9. #3449
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by MScott View Post
    Any thoughts?
    I think that is a list of Legacy legal cards.

    What do you think?

    Is there a reason you chose those cards over the standard build?

    How has your testing gone?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    You don't get to play the most powerful cards in the format and then bitch when someone finally says no. You also don't get to bitch that it's not fun when someone finally tells you no instead of voyeuristicly watching you masturbate with Cantrips.

  10. #3450

    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Accidentally wrote a reply without quoting--Edited and posted below.

  11. #3451

    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by MScott View Post
    3x Griselbrand
    1x Children of Korilis
    1x Emrakul, Aeons Torn
    1x Tendrils of Agony
    4x Lotus Petal
    1x Chrome Mox
    4x Dark Ritual
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Careful Study
    2x Cabal Therapy
    4x Goryo’s Vengeance
    4x Entomb
    4x Thoughtseize
    1x Reanimate
    1x Unburial Rites
    4x Exhume
    4x Daze
    2x Underground Sea
    1x Scrubland
    4x Polluted Delta
    4x Bloodstained Mire
    1x Swamp
    1x Island


    This is an altered list from a friend of mine. Any thoughts?
    Stuff I feel very strongly about:

    Tendrils of Agony does not belong, and should be replaced by 1xCollective Brutailty. Once you have the Children + Griselbrand interaction (the only time Tendrils is reliably good), you will never need a ToA, since you can keep looping through your deck using Emrakul, making more mana every time and eventually hardcasting Emmy for the win. The Collective Brutality is there to still win through a card like Ensnaring Bridge. You use the same infinite deck loop to cast that one CB over and over until your opponent is dead. The key difference is that ToA is very close to a dead draw when you don't have a Griselbrand in play. Collective Brutaily is actually a real magic card.

    Shallow Grave is better than both Exhume and Goryo's. Exhume doesn't give haste, can't be cast at instant speed to blow out a Surgical and can't bring back a hasty Emrakul. Goryo's targets and cannot return Children. In this build with no LED, Goryo's is probably the best complement to the auto-4 Shallow Grave.

    Stuff I feel less strongly about, but do think will improve the deck:

    1 Unburial Rites: A card I never leave home without these days, but all my builds play Lion's Eye Diamond. Without it I expect this card to be way too clunky. You can try it but expect it to vastly underperform. The whole idea is something like turn 1 Dark Ritual, LED, Entomb Unburial Rites...win. In your deck you're going to need a way to first bin Griselbrand, then a bunch of mana and an Entomb for the Rites. It's just not going to happen often, and you'll be mostly sad when you draw this card.

    4xCareful Study: Back when Esper lists were the norm, 4 Ponder and 0 CS was the Gold Standard. I started playing CS, and was very happy with it in general, but it becomes a liability post board when the card disadvantage matters more and you don't often want to recklessly throw GB into the yard turn 1 because of surgical. I like a 2 Ponder 2 CS split better. If you do play 4 (and probably even if you play just 1-2) I'd def suggest playing the full 4 Griselbrand as well.

    4xDaze: Daze is a card I've tried, and when it works it's fantastic. When it doesn't it's really bad. I don't think Daze is bad, but I think it is in a slot that I'd much prefer to be Unmask. That card is pure gas, and is much more reliable forcing through the combo than Daze. I think it would be really cool to play just one Daze. That way the times you do draw it, the opponent will play around it the rest of the match like you have four, when in reality you'll almost never actually have it. That's good value.

    This is what I would suggest given your list as a starting point:

    4 Griselbrand
    1 Emrakul
    1 Children
    4 Lotus Petal
    1 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Careful Study
    2 Ponder
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Unmask
    1 Cabal Therapy
    1 Collective Brutality
    1 Daze
    4 Entomb
    4 Shallow Grave
    4 Goryo's Vengeance
    1 Reanimate
    3 Underground Sea
    1 Scrubland
    1 Swamp
    1 Island
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Bloodstained Mire

  12. #3452
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by Jblinder View Post
    Stuff I feel very strongly about:

    Tendrils of Agony does not belong, and should be replaced by 1xCollective Brutailty. Once you have the Children + Griselbrand interaction (the only time Tendrils is reliably good), you will never need a ToA, since you can keep looping through your deck using Emrakul, making more mana every time and eventually hardcasting Emmy for the win. The Collective Brutality is there to still win through a card like Ensnaring Bridge. You use the same infinite deck loop to cast that one CB over and over until your opponent is dead. The key difference is that ToA is very close to a dead draw when you don't have a Griselbrand in play. Collective Brutaily is actually a real magic card.

    Shallow Grave is better than both Exhume and Goryo's. Exhume doesn't give haste, can't be cast at instant speed to blow out a Surgical and can't bring back a hasty Emrakul. Goryo's targets and cannot return Children. In this build with no LED, Goryo's is probably the best complement to the auto-4 Shallow Grave.

    Stuff I feel less strongly about, but do think will improve the deck:

    1 Unburial Rites: A card I never leave home without these days, but all my builds play Lion's Eye Diamond. Without it I expect this card to be way too clunky. You can try it but expect it to vastly underperform. The whole idea is something like turn 1 Dark Ritual, LED, Entomb Unburial Rites...win. In your deck you're going to need a way to first bin Griselbrand, then a bunch of mana and an Entomb for the Rites. It's just not going to happen often, and you'll be mostly sad when you draw this card.

    4xCareful Study: Back when Esper lists were the norm, 4 Ponder and 0 CS was the Gold Standard. I started playing CS, and was very happy with it in general, but it becomes a liability post board when the card disadvantage matters more and you don't often want to recklessly throw GB into the yard turn 1 because of surgical. I like a 2 Ponder 2 CS split better. If you do play 4 (and probably even if you play just 1-2) I'd def suggest playing the full 4 Griselbrand as well.

    4xDaze: Daze is a card I've tried, and when it works it's fantastic. When it doesn't it's really bad. I don't think Daze is bad, but I think it is in a slot that I'd much prefer to be Unmask. That card is pure gas, and is much more reliable forcing through the combo than Daze. I think it would be really cool to play just one Daze. That way the times you do draw it, the opponent will play around it the rest of the match like you have four, when in reality you'll almost never actually have it. That's good value.

    This is what I would suggest given your list as a starting point:

    4 Griselbrand
    1 Emrakul
    1 Children
    4 Lotus Petal
    1 Chrome Mox
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Careful Study
    2 Ponder
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Unmask
    1 Cabal Therapy
    1 Collective Brutality
    1 Daze
    4 Entomb
    4 Shallow Grave
    4 Goryo's Vengeance
    1 Reanimate
    3 Underground Sea
    1 Scrubland
    1 Swamp
    1 Island
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    Yea I toyed around with the deck when top/counterbalance miracles was the entire meta, so my views may be odd. Do you have a burning wish list you like? and is grixis ever a thing?

  13. #3453
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Please put in some amount of effort. There are scores of pages of discussion about specific cards, deck lists, side boarding strategy, and more. Eight of your nine posts are requests for info or input with no thoughts of your own.


    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...36#post1070136
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...77#post1070177
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...59#post1070259
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...46#post1071246
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...91#post1071491
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...47#post1071847
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...55#post1071855
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...51#post1071951

    Scroll back. Find a Burning Wish list. What do you think of that list? What changes do you think should be made? Why do you think these things?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    You don't get to play the most powerful cards in the format and then bitch when someone finally says no. You also don't get to bitch that it's not fun when someone finally tells you no instead of voyeuristicly watching you masturbate with Cantrips.

  14. #3454
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by thecrav View Post
    Please put in some amount of effort. There are scores of pages of discussion about specific cards, deck lists, side boarding strategy, and more. Eight of your nine posts are requests for info or input with no thoughts of your own.
    Im sorry i thought this was a site where people who know less about these decks can ask questions because they are interested in them, rather then be forced to add knowledge without any way to gain it

  15. #3455
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by MScott View Post
    Im sorry i thought this was a site where people who know less about these decks can ask questions because they are interested in them
    You have misread me. As someone who has read your entire forum history, this does not shock me.

    Google "How to ask good questions." A good question requires effort. You might, for example, provide a deck list, and list the reasons for any non-standard choices, giving other commenters a starting point for their responses. Here is an example of someone doing exactly that, only one page ago. Or you might link an old decklist, then link MTGGoldfish's metagame analysis and ask whether a particular card should be swapped for one that more adequately answers that analysis.

    Quote Originally Posted by MScott View Post
    rather then be forced to add knowledge without any way to gain it
    This thread is currently one hundred seventy-three pages long. If you cannot find a way to find some amount of information about the deck, there is nothing that we can do to help you.

    All that said, if I had a tournament coming up (and I do) and I wanted to play Tin Fins (and I do) and I hadn't played it in a while (and I haven't), I would play the following.

    4 Griselbrand
    1 Children of Korlis
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    2 Collective Brutality
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Entomb
    4 Shallow Grave
    3 Goryo's Vengeance
    2 Reanimate
    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Cabal Therapy
    1 Chrome Mox
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Marsh Flats
    2 Flooded Strand
    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    1 Tundra
    1 Scrubland
    2 Underground Sea
    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
    1 Lim-Dul's Vault

    4 Monastery Mentor
    4 Dark Confidant
    1 Cavern of Souls
    1 Chain of Vapor
    2 Massacre
    2 Echoing Truth
    1 Serenity

    This is quite close to the traditional build. It chooses Collective Brutality over Tendrils of Agony, which takes longer but is better overall. The sideboard is transformative, which is useful to me because I haven't played in a while and it's easier to play something that probably isn't hit by their hate then it is to play against their hate when you don't know what their hate is. The remainder of the sideboard is fairly usual for a combo deck in Esper colors - Massacre to wipe Death and Taxes pus a few ways to get rid of opposing graveyard hate should the transformation not be the best option.

    If you have any specific questions, I'd be happy to address them.

    eta:

    Quote Originally Posted by MScott
    So you are picking a fight with a 16 year old. Hope you feel good about that. I have been going to FNM at my LGS since my brother took me when I was 8 and until now I have never had a bad experience playing Magic or interacting with people in the community. I do not have experience with this deck, and was just wondering how in the current meta the deck stood and if anyone had suggestions for how to start. YOu dont have to be a fucking raging cunt when someone just wants to know where to start.
    Last edited by thecrav; 06-20-2019 at 12:31 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    You don't get to play the most powerful cards in the format and then bitch when someone finally says no. You also don't get to bitch that it's not fun when someone finally tells you no instead of voyeuristicly watching you masturbate with Cantrips.

  16. #3456
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    People still use the Source? Well, I'll be dipped.

    The cool thing about decks that floop Griselbrand into play is that, you can play a list that's a couple years old and it'll do pretty well unless you're playing a meta that's nothing but chalice decks and main deck gy hate.

    Heck, most of the Esper lists are pretty much the same, with maybe a few sb slots different (are you playing creatures in the sb or reactive stuff) and a few main deck choices (flex slots being more discard, LDV, preordain, Chrome Mox, etc).

    As far as meta considerations, maindeck Narset is rough, but if you're running 7-9 discard spells, you can reliably hit a Narset or just end the game before one hits the field. Otherwise new Teferi makes it hard to reanimate Emrakul, but once again, easy to play around when you can either end the game before t3 or just swing in with Griselbrand, then go infinite with CoBru in your second main.

    But for anyone reading this and curious about the deck, the primer is still good, and there's literal years of solid discussion here to answer most questions. Also, the discord is the place to be: https://discord.gg/mq9pQfz Keep in mind, we do still like people adding their thoughts to the discussion, because if you share a list and ask "what do you think?" you're not going to get much discussion because there's nothing stimulating about that question. If you share a list and ask "I'm thinking about playing this list, but I'm uncertain about slots X, y, & Z", that's a great question. Almost every question has been asked, and lots of cards have been tried, so it's worth the time to do some reading.
    Tinfins & Bizarro Stormy & Belcher & DDFT
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    Quote Originally Posted by .dk View Post
    Acclimation has solved the deck. Thread CLOSED.

  17. #3457
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    THE GANG'S ALL HERE!

    In other news, TinFins is officially a dinosaur deck now:
    I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel

    "Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."

  18. #3458
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by Acclimation View Post
    maindeck Narset is rough
    Just kill them before they have enough mana to cast Narset, duh.

    Once I was drunk talking about how great Tin Fins was and after the fourth time someone said "how do you beat X?" I realized that my answer to that question would always be to just kill them before it matters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    You don't get to play the most powerful cards in the format and then bitch when someone finally says no. You also don't get to bitch that it's not fun when someone finally tells you no instead of voyeuristicly watching you masturbate with Cantrips.

  19. #3459
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by thecrav View Post
    Once I was drunk talking about how great Tin Fins was and after the fourth time someone said "how do you beat X?" I realized that my answer to that question would always be to just kill them before it matters.
    People get really upset at me when I just tell them my plan to beat X is to just kill them before X is relevant or draw my sideboard cards to deal with X. I have no idea what these people are expecting for a response. I'm not insta-scooping to one card in a vacuum scenario, y'all, I'm playing a fast deck with 8-10 cantrips with general sb answers, theoretically I can beat multiple pieces of hate.
    Tinfins & Bizarro Stormy & Belcher & DDFT
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    Quote Originally Posted by .dk View Post
    Acclimation has solved the deck. Thread CLOSED.

  20. #3460
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by thecrav View Post
    4 Griselbrand
    1 Children of Korlis
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    2 Collective Brutality
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Entomb
    4 Shallow Grave
    3 Goryo's Vengeance
    2 Reanimate
    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Cabal Therapy
    1 Chrome Mox
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Marsh Flats
    2 Flooded Strand
    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    1 Tundra
    1 Scrubland
    2 Underground Sea
    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
    1 Lim-Dul's Vault

    4 Monastery Mentor
    4 Dark Confidant
    1 Cavern of Souls
    1 Chain of Vapor
    2 Massacre
    2 Echoing Truth
    1 Serenity
    Just came here to say that this list sucks. It's like... at least 1 maybe 2 cards different than what I would play in the maindeck. Geez, get with the times. Like, what year is it, 2015? (I keed! <3 u Sam!)

    I do think this deck warrants testing Teferi, Time Raveler out of the sideboard though. We're in esper and it's a city of solitude that also can deal with Chalice. What's not to love? Outside of 3 CMC that is.

    Also, I'm on board for Dino-train. That card seems great in the SB to me - replaces Phyrexian Devourer that @RichardCheese and I tried 6 years ago. And also it actually got him to post in the thread - anything that does that is net positive in my eyes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    His graveyard was a fucking encyclopedia of countermagic.

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