[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[Quasim0ff]

Looks like you're missing about 6 cards from your list there. I'll assume something like 4 Griselbrands and some number of Emrakul?

4 gris, 1 emrakul, 1 children of korlis I'd assume

[scottpou]

4 gris, 1 emrakul, 1 children of korlis I'd assume

Yes you are correct. I edited the post with edit marks. I only have 2 gris in my UB normal build, but going mono/basics needed the other 2 to target the pilot's hand for discard sometimes. It still feels weird not having cantrips and LDV. I wouldn't recommend it, but it could be a cheaper option for someone getting into the deck. However, the sideboard has been more interesting to me. Having Lili and Negator with the lands combo has been more impressive than anticipated. I was looking at old Pox/Control builds and Epochrasite, Oona's Prowler, Nihilith peaked my interest.

I couldn't find the answer in the primer under Sideboards and Sideboarding nor Unsuccessful Ideas. Was there ever an attempt to go the Control route instead of aggro (doomsday / mentor) or combo (S&T / AdNaus)

[.dk]

No, I don't believe anyone that has posted in this thread ever did, mainly because of the manabase and the construction of the maindeck. It's not very conducive to grinding as we have a fragile manabase and lots of card disadvantage.

[Whitefaces]

Yeah, I can't imagine trying to board into a slower/controlling build would ever work. SnT could be a reasonable avenue if you played more than 2 Griseldaddy and Emmy, but that comes with a lot of changes to the MD.

I played Tin Fins for the first time in a while at my LGS a couple of weeks back. Pretty poor 2-2, one win being the bye

R1 vs Jund. G1 I TS him, and take a DRS seeing Lili, Bob, Goyf and lands. I have Entomb and 3x grave/vengeance but kept a one lander (fetching Swamp). I Entombed on his next EOT then proceeded to not draw a mana source for the next 5 turns and died to Bob and Goyf. G2 I boarded in Mentors and Tops but gave him a quick serving of onions. G3 I probed seeing Decays and Bolts (he hadn't seen Mentor, so, wtf???). He laid a T1 cage, despite using what felt like a million ponders and BSs with shuffles I couldn't find one of two decays and mentor + a friend got mowed down by decays.

R2 vs Bye. Crushed.

R3 vs Elves. G1 got hoofed quickly. G2 gave him some spaghetti. G3 was looking grim. 1 life vs Ooze, 2x Heritage Druid, 2x arbor and a nettle sentinel. Last turn of the game, draw Brainstorm, that's a good card. Draw into gas that lets me Rit > Rit> Needle (naming ooze) > Entomb > Petal > Tendrils, taking him to 4 and me out of lethal setting up to draw a Shallow Grave or Vengance. Flipped the card over next turn, OOF.

R4 vs Storm. Can't remember the exact details, but I fucked this up. Won G1, G2 I started going off, down to 1 life but with grisel and enough mana to discard emrakul from hand and add the spaghetti to the meat balls. I therapy him fearing a Flusterstorm, nothing. Go back to my hand...only discard left is TS. I'm an idiot. Griselbrand attacking and drawing 7 gets me nowhere and he kills me next turn. G3 he plays Karakas on T2, but my hand was slow and cantrips didn't get me anywhere. Kills me T3.

So, could have been 3-1...I don't think the rest of the players at my LGS are eating enough, so will continue feeding them.

[Koby]

Bob + Mentor + 1 Cavern seems like the real deal. I think playing only 3 Dark Confidant is a big mistake, when playing this sideboard.

[Whitefaces]

Bob + Mentor + 1 Cavern seems like the real deal. I think playing only 3 Dark Confidant is a big mistake, when playing this sideboard.

If I can borrow a Cavern or two off a friend I'll try this out next Tuesday.

[.dk]

Bob + Mentor + 1 Cavern seems like the real deal. I think playing only 3 Dark Confidant is a big mistake, when playing this sideboard.

You tested with Bob vs. SDT at all? I want someone to disprove my bias towards Top. :)

[Koby]

You tested with Bob vs. SDT at all? I want someone to disprove my bias towards Top. :)

I recently added 1 SDT in place of 1 LDV, to support both Dark Confidant and Mentors. Only had 1 game (out of <10) that it came up.

It's hard to test SB slots when you don't draw them in SB games. *sigh*
I was able to beat Miracles 2-0 with the man-plan. Cavern of Souls is HUGE in this matchup. I'm thinking we might want a 2nd Cavern too.

I do see SDT being a useful cantrip in this deck that LDV can also replace. I've been happier with LDV so far due to its ability to just dig through a whole mess of trash cards. Even in SB games with the man-plan, I've sometimes dug 20 cards deep to find Mentor to maintain pressure, a feat that SDT can't really accomplish readily.

[Richard Cheese]

I recently added 1 SDT in place of 1 LDV, to support both Dark Confidant and Mentors. Only had 1 game (out of <10) that it came up.

It's hard to test SB slots when you don't draw them in SB games. *sigh*
I was able to beat Miracles 2-0 with the man-plan. Cavern of Souls is HUGE in this matchup. I'm thinking we might want a 2nd Cavern too.

I do see SDT being a useful cantrip in this deck that LDV can also replace. I've been happier with LDV so far due to its ability to just dig through a whole mess of trash cards. Even in SB games with the man-plan, I've sometimes dug 20 cards deep to find Mentor to maintain pressure, a feat that SDT can't really accomplish readily.

How rude would it be to have one Cavern main for hardcasting Griselbrand?

[Koby]

How rude would it be to have one Cavern main for hardcasting Griselbrand?

I imagine this more-often-than-not becomes an issue of casting spells in the Maindeck, as the frequency of hardcasting Griselbrand is fairly low. It might have more merit in decks playing 3 or 4 Griselbrands, but even then that would be fairly infrequent.

[Richard Cheese]

I imagine this more-often-than-not becomes an issue of casting spells in the Maindeck, as the frequency of hardcasting Griselbrand is fairly low. It might have more merit in decks playing 3 or 4 Griselbrands, but even then that would be fairly infrequent.

Screw that, I'm playing Demon Tribal Aggro Combo. Gotta find something to do with 15 Korean Shadowborn Apostles.

[ThomasDowd]

How rude would it be to have one Cavern main for hardcasting Griselbrand?

name eldrazi, for maximum rudeness.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

name eldrazi, for maximum rudeness.

Maximum irrelevance, you mean. Emrakul is already uncounterable.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[.dk]

goddamnit you guys are making me want to re-buy my bobs to play this shit.

fine. i'll do it. as it will be the only deck i can play while my LED's are off getting signed anyway.

or maybe Standard Rare Stompy...

[ThomasDowd]

Maximum irrelevance, you mean. Emrakul is already uncounterable.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

I can't hear you over the sound of spaghetti coming out of this cavern.

[movingtonewao]

naming eldrazi with cavern is precisely a jerk move because emrakul is already uncounterable.

[ThomasDowd]

naming eldrazi with cavern is precisely a jerk move because emrakul is already uncounterable.

onions is all i live

[BeardTron]

For those running a Mentor SB, what does your SB look like? And what do you find yourself boarding out in general when you bring them in?

[Darkgobs]

Hi guys!
This weekend, I tried to burn some onions in my homeland: Switzerland. The tournament - Demonsota took place in Saint-Maurice, in the swiss alps. It was the «final act» of the season (3 tournaments + one grand final; every player could earn a bye for the grand final for each place in the top8 of the 3 first «acts»), and I had a bye because I managed to end up 7th with R/G Land in the 2nd act. But as I said, this time I wanted to give Tin Fins a try again (previous try was a desaster). I choose to try the transformational man-plan sideboard, with Sensei’s Diving Top to find the Mentors. Here’s the list:

Maindeck (60)

2 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Children of Korlis

3 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Shallow Grave
1 Reanimate
4 Entomb
1 Tendrils of Agony

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize

3 Ponder
1 Sensei’s Diving Top
4 Brainstorm
2 Lim-Dûl’s Vault
4 Gitaxian Probe

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Toundra
3 Underground Sea

Sideboard (15)

4 Monastery Mentor
2 Sensei’s Diving Top
2 Serenity
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Massacre
2 Pithing Needle
1 Toundra

The maindeck is a classic one, I just tried a SDT ine the 60 instead of a Ponder to have 1 SDT less in the SB (this idea came from someone here, I don’t remember who).


So, here’s the report:

We were 72 players (which is really nice, given that the tournament was held in a small village in the swiss alps), so we played seven swiss (of course!) rounds, and top 8.

1st round: Bye

We are like 14 or something to have a bye (some had two), and we enjoy eating some nice sandwiches and cakes while waiting for the first round to end.

1-0

2nd round: Moon & Taxes, 2-1

I take a look at the pairings and...I am not very happy: I am matched with my buddy (that sucks anyway) and we trained the match-up a bit togheter. I even lend him the deck he’s playing with. It can be a very hard match-up, and I know he will mulligan until he finds a Thalia or a Canonist in game 1. He also knows about my transformational sideboard, so I am not that confident.

Game 1: He win the toss, and mull to 5. I keep a 7 winning hand. He leads with plain and passes. I combo off turn on, he swords my Griselbrand, but in the 14 cards I find enough to reanimate another Griselbrand, draw 7 again, reanimate a Spaghetti and swinging for 21.

Game 2: Since I am on the draw, I decide to go for the Mentor plan and remove all the cards of the combo. I kept a 6 hand with some cantrips and a SDT, a Massacre and 2 lands, hoping to find a Mentor or a LDV quick enough. Unfortunaetly, he led with Canonist, Revoker, and when my Mentor finaly comes into play, it’s too late, and he kills me with a flying Wingmare.

Game 3: I am on the play and decide to side go for full combo again. We both keep our hands, and I kill him turn 2.

2-0

3rd round: Merfolk, 2-0

I was quite lucky this round, even if I lost the dice

Game 1: We both mull to 6. He lead with Island, Cursecatcher, go. Meh. I have the kill T1, but must wait one turn to play against the denial. Fortunately, my first draw is a Lotus Petal. Damn, this feels good. I combo off, but cannot find an Entomb. So I attack, draw 7 again, and got what I need to kill him with Tendrills of Agony, even with his Cursecatcher.

Game 2: I decide to keep the combo plan, because I don’t think I can contest him with the Mentor plan, especially with him having the islandwalk advantage. He starts, Island, go. I probe him and see two Lords, Muttavault, 1 Island and a Daze. Well, not an horrible hand, but that’s not enough. I kill him T1 with a printed Mox to play around his Daze. He’s not very happy.

3-0

4rd round: Burn, 0-2

I know my opponnent, and also know he’s on Burn. I will have to be faster than him.

Game 1: I loose the toss, and he starts with Rift Bolt. I kept a strange hand but with T2 kill, but he then plays an Eidolon of the Great Revel. Aouch. At this point I have to make a decision: do I try to combo-off and hope to find the Emrakul kill in the first seven cards? That’s very risky. I rather choose to land, pass, and let him attack with Eidolon, which I block with a fresh entombed Griselbrand. Problem is, he plays another Eidolon in the 2nd main phase (which he probably should have play in the first main phase, but he couldn’t really know). I choose to draw 7 with Grisel befor he gets exiled. I am at 11 hp, he’s got Eidolon and two Mountains. I’ve got Thoughseize + Shallow Graves + 3rd lands + Griselbrand + Emrakul in hand. Ok. The better out I see is reanimating Emrakul and swing with annihilator, hoping I can finish him befor he find some lands again and finishes me (maybe this wasn’t the good decision. Please feel free to propose another play if you think I did wrong!). I would have been to 5, so I even don’t die to Fireblast (which he had in hand, as he told me after the game). But at this moment, I fucked up: I take my turn and happily play Thoughseize...befor playing my third land. What an idiot. I don’t have the mana to reanimate Emrakul befor the shuffle. I realized this just as I have to choose the card I discard... then we both understand the situation, I both look at each other and he smiles, as I have to get Griselbrand in my yard with a poker face. I then swing for 7, and desperately draw seven, knowing I will die to Eidolon anyway. Damn.

Game 2: I don’t transform, and choose to find some fast kill. I find a T3 kill in my first seven, but without discard or Chain of Vapor. I kept the hand, and that was probably a mistake: I die to a Goblin Guide into double Eidolon again. Sad. =(

3-1

5th round: Esper Counterbalance Control, 2-0

Game 1: We both keep decent hand, but I have to find one missing piece of combo befor going off. We both have slow starts. After some Brainstorms / Cabal Therapy fights, and a twenty-cards Lim-Dûl’s Vault and a Cabal on his 2nd FoW (the first one countered one of my Entombs) I have a good set-up and a lot of mana, but he meanwhile found SDT and Counterbalance. If I remember correctly, he then plays Mentor with one mana open for activating top. Thing is, I understand he doesn’t know the list and probably think I am on some classic Reanimator list. So I try to bluff and bait the missplay, which I succeed to do: Since he only have one mana left because he played the Mentor, at my main phase I try to bait with a Dark Ritual, in response he pays one for SDT (he wanted to see which was his 3rd top card to see if he could find a one CMC). Yes! In response I try to play an Entomb, and he flips the Top. Then I cast another Dark Ritual, another Entomb and a Goryo’s Vengance...and he doesn’t have a 2 CMC on the top of his library. Oh god, thanks. Then, befor letting his Top resolve, I pay seven life (going down to 5 hp, Lim-Dûl, Probe and Fetches hurted!)...and draw the Emrakul. Damn it: I will not be able to discard him because all the discard spells are rituals, and by the time I can cast them, the SDT will be on the top of his library. So I have no other choice but to use the last Dark Ritual I have in my hand to cast Entomb for Children of Korlis and Shallow Graves them, sacrifice them, draw seven again, to cast another Shallow Graves with my last land and a Lotus Petal, and draw fourteen cards, finnally finding my Tenrills, but not the last Dark Ritual. Now his Top resolves, but I play 3 Petal and a Mox, which I play, and cast ToA ftw, not even needing the Griselbrand swing to finish him. God.
(it was a very confusing game, and some things might have been a bit differents, but the «spirit» of our game 1 should be intact^^)

Game 2: I try to surprise him with the Monastery plan. He starts, T1 nothing, I Probe him, and see some active FoW and RiP. I passe, he plays RiP, I then draw a discard spell (I think), got that FoW down, and resolve a Mentor one or two turn befor he did, which was just enough to bring me victory, especially because I needled his SDT. Nice and close games.

4-1

6th round: Jund, 1-2

If I win, I can ID for top8. I know he’s on Jund, because he always plays this deck.

Game 1: We both keep our seven, he plays a land and passes. I have T3 kill, but then he plays Hymn to Tourach, and get my Goryo’s and a Cantrip. But I still have Lim-Dûl and could be ok. But he then plays a third land and an Ooze, with green open. Sigh.

Game 2: I start and decide to stay on the combo plan since I am starting, and hope for some good aggressive mulligan. Well, that worked*: I mull to four, missing only one piece of the combo. I play a fetch, and go. He play DRS and passes. Then I natrurally draw the missing piece, and start the combo. I almost fizzle, and need to attack him with Griselbrand to draw again, then I reanimate Children two times, drawing all my Library but 1 Cards, to finally get him with a hudge Tendrill. You should have seen his face.^^

Game 3: For whatever reason, I forget to transform, which I should have done, since I am sure he sided all his Decay and Punishing out. And well, that cost me the game: I have T1 Kill, but he let with thoughseize into DRS, Cage, DRS. That’s too much for my onions and I concede as he puts me to 7.

4-2

7th round: 12 Post, 2-0

This one was easy and quite frustrating for my poor opponent, who knew Tin Fins and just hoped for the fizzle.

Game 1: T1 kill.

Game 2: T2 kill. But I almost fizzled: I reanimate Grizzelbrand, draw 14, and couldn’t find any Emrakul / Discard nor Entomb, even after I drew seven more after the Griselbrand’s swing. So I puted him to 13, and shaped a hand to kill him with ToA next turn: Probe, Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Petal, Cabal, random 1-CMC, Tendrill. That one almost ended up badly!

5-2

Final record: 10th / 72 players , 5-0-2, (bye + 9-0-5).
Almost top 8... bah, I’ll be back, with even more onions power! =)


About the list:
1) I couldn’t really test the Mentor-plan often that day (I only used that strategy in two games, could have been three) which was a bit sad, but against Esper Control, it was great and gave me the game. SDT is really nice, but I am wondering if Bob x3/x4 wouldn’t be better. I guess I’ll have to test more.
2) Also, that day, Tendrill gave me three games I couldn’t have won without it, so I am definetly not going to take it out.

Thanks for reading! Please don’t hesitate to tell me if you see some mistakes (my english is not very good, so I will gladly edit any error) or if you have any remarks / questions.
Keep thoses onions burnin', guys!

[.dk]

Your game 1 against Counterbalance was so awesome! I love that this deck goes at instant speed for interactions like that.

I was trying 1 top maindeck instead of ponder - I haven't yet run into situations (100 goldfished games and probably 30 or so live games) where it made a difference one way or another. I think that's a fine swap, myself.

With this change though, I think you can run Tops AND Bob's in the board for the transformation though:

4 Mentor
4 Bob
1 Top
1 Cavern of Souls

And whatever 5 pieces of reactive hate that you're interested in. That gives you 2 Tops still (which as Koby pointed out, helps both Bob as well as Mentor) and more threats to drop.