[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[Koby]

My currently sleeved list:

4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
3 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Reanimate

4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Chrome Mox

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Lim-dul's Vault
1 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul
1 Children of Korlis
1 Tendrils of Agony

3 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats

SB:
4 Monastery Mentory
4 Dark Confidant
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Serenity
1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction

Against RIP decks I take out Goryo's vs Shallow Grave because you cannot cast Goryo's without a target (RIPerinos), but you can Shallow Grave for storm with Tendrils. I keep Reanimate in because about 4% of the time, you can get a turn 1 reanimation with only 2 mana.

[.dk]

Interesting - not a lot of D&T in your meta? Or do you think that Massacre isn't needed with the board plan?

Also - just curious as to your reasoning for swapping 1 LDV for Top rather than a Ponder. My thoughts on swapping Ponders for Tops was that we still have singletons in the board that we want to find and LDV was the best card at finding singletons.

[Koby]

SB is always in flux, and Massacre / Dread of Night are part of the set, just not recently. There's too much MUD / Enchantress and hardly any D&T (maybe 1 player, who's now on Enchantress). Needle, Surgical, Serenity, Dread of Night, and Massacre all fill out the last 4 slots in the board.

[.dk]

Was guessing that was the case - but didn't hurt to check to see if I was missing something. :)

[Voiceofthedead]

I recently sold a huge amount of my legacy pool and only got 2 USeas left.

Do you think it is reasonable to build the manabase for Tin Fins with only 2 Usea + Tundra + maybe Volcanic for the R splash?
Or would you stronly suggest to run 3 Usea?

[Koby]

I recently sold a huge amount of my legacy pool and only got 2 USeas left.

Do you think it is reasonable to build the manabase for Tin Fins with only 2 Usea + Tundra + maybe Volcanic for the R splash?
Or would you stronly suggest to run 3 Usea?

Shouldn't be an issue, you can even run Watery Grave. It might impact about 20% of games with Watery Grave, but otherwise you could run basic Island as well.

[Kathal]

I recently sold a huge amount of my legacy pool and only got 2 USeas left.

Do you think it is reasonable to build the manabase for Tin Fins with only 2 Usea + Tundra + maybe Volcanic for the R splash?
Or would you stronly suggest to run 3 Usea?

I played a rather long time with only 2 Usea. You notice it from time to time but overall you don't lose that much.

Greetings,
Kathal

[Richard Cheese]

I made something for you guys:

[phazonmutant]

I played close to Koby's 75 last night at the CK weekly and went 4-0. This sideboard plan is sweet, deck is sweet, magic is great.

From his list
MD: +1 Island, -1 Chrome Mox
SB: -2 Surgical, -2 Bob, -1 Cavern, +2 Flusterstorm, +1 Needle, +1 Serenity, +1 Top

I didn't really want to cut Chrome Mox, but I want to have 2 basics to be able to get to 3 mana postboard. Also I like the Island anyway. From my testing before, Chrome Mox was on balance helpful, but most of the time it doesn't matter because you either go off or can win next turn. Sideboard is because I think Flusterstorm is better anti-combo than Surgical and is great in discard matchups, but that's close. I did want to be able to have a reasonable anti-hate plan against D&T, Chalice decks, etc where Mentor / Bob isn't great, so I thought the second Serenity and Needle would be better than extra Bobs.

ANT 2-1 - Cabal Therapy flashbacks with Children is hot. Flusterstorm was the nut blowout to his YOLO turn 1.
Grixis Control 2-1 (video part 1 part 2) - Mentor showed its strength here. We had an insane leveling sequence in game 3. I suspected he had Surgical because of the long tank before casting Therapy, and had to Brainstorm for both the possibility that he had it and that he didn't. I think made a mistake - should have kept Shallow Grave over a Mentor. Lim-Dul's Vault sucked, I'm glad he wasted a Therapy on it.
Esper? 2-0 - I killed him turn 2 and then turn 1 through double Force (he declined to Force the Therapy). Oh yeah this deck runs hot.
Grixis Control 2-1 - Mentor is again great.

10/10 would play again.

[.dk]

Did you just jam an Island in there, or modify the fetches too? I'm tending to agree with you on Chrome Mox, particularly after some of our goldfish data from a few months ago. I might replace it with the 4th Underground Sea again so I don't screw up the fetches.

I've been running 2 Ponder, 2 SDT, and 2 LDV main lately. Although I'm feeling the need for more Ponders, so maybe that will go to 3/1/2. I've found that 2x LDV has helped me find sideboard pieces (serenity, massacre) that I don't have enough room to run a bunch of. I haven't settled on a 15 in particular, but at the moment is:

4 Mentor
4 Bob
1 Cavern
2 Needle
2 CoV
1 Serenity
1 Massacre

Still struggling with how to fit everything I want in the main and sideboard - rather meta dependent. Locally, I should probably be cutting the 2nd Needle for another Serenity (we seem to have a bunch of Tezz, MUD, and Miracles lately). I tend to forgo combo hate as I think we've got a pretty good matchup there already.

That said, having less cards in your transformation does let you run more Shallow Graves after boarding in Mentors too - something I've been thinking a lot about. Was thinking about just picking some 60 cards with Mentor and Shallow Grave and testing that for a while and see how that plays out - definitely some good interactions with those cards.

Glad to hear you guys are testing and seeing similar results with Mentor. It's pretty bonkers!

[cab0747]

Hello all!

After spending some time Blood mooning and finally Grindstone-ing people out of games, I have had an itch to do something a bit faster and more degenerate. I believe it was .dk who absolutely embarrassed me at GPNJ with an adorable Shelldock Isle/Doomsday/Emrakul kill (I think it was him...The conversation may be back many pages). Ever since then I have considered playing this deck.

A few days ago I saw a Reddit post with a list and while looking through it I though "... Wow! I have almost all of these cards (on MODO and in paper). Why I have I not tried this yet?" So, over the next few weeks I will be looking to pick up the Lim-Duls and the last 2-3 Shallow Graves to finish putting this together.

After going over this thread, it seems that the Doomsday package in the sideboard is for more experienced players. So, I will probably not be using it right away. I just wanted to make sure the 60 I am starting with is acceptable.

4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
3 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Reanimate
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Chrome Mox
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Tendrils of Agony

2 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Children of Korlis


3 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats

It seems pretty standard, but if there are any major issues, please let me know.

Now to the important questions:

• Fish-titty Ponder or moon Ponder?
• Alpha swamp or Unhinged swamp?
• MM Dark Ritual or Tempest Dark Ritual

[.dk]

haha, yep! that would have been me! I remember that match and your dejected look when I cast Doomsday. ;)

I'm glad you've seen the ways of our Lord and Savior Griselbrand...

Anyway... your main deck seems good to me! That's essentially the 60 that I was going to run next - and possibly cut Chrome Mox for another land as phazonmutant mentioned (from some of our gold fishing data from a couple months ago).

And I actually think that Doomsday is inferior to the Mentor plan that a few of us have been testing lately. That card is pretty impressive. Doomsday is of course very powerful, but Mentor gets hit by less hate in common with the main deck than does Doomsday. So if it were me, I'd start with some combination of Mentors in the sideboard, card draw, and some kind of answers.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Doomsday seems to be all but abandoned for the faster, less intricate line of Mentor, do things, win. I never played it, but I did play DDFT, and I must say that Mentor will be the easier thing to play 8+ rounds with. As for the "important things":

Textless or M10 Ponders.

Either Swamp, they both have their merits.

Neither Dark Rit unless you want foil and don't care if it's ugly. Otherwise, A/B or FBB, or my personal favorite, Japanese Saga.

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[cab0747]

.dk - I can't imagine I looked too dejected! I was unfamiliar with the deck at the time and I still think that was one of the coolest ways I have ever lost a game/match.

Bee - I only have Revised/Unlimited with that art. I will probably stick with MM and maybe go to Beta when I have an extra $60 laying around.

Thanks for the advice!

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Meh, sarnath'ed.

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[dte]

Bee - I only have Revised/Unlimited with that art. I will probably stick with MM and maybe go to Beta when I have an extra $60 laying around.

Revised/Unlimited are best for lands: beeing the only white bordered cards in your deck make them easier to find while fetching. It's much more comfortable.

For the dark ritual, I always loved the Ice Age and first editions arts.

[Kathal]

For Dark Rit, Mirage, not even close. It fits perfectly to the Shallow Grave and it just looks great.

Otherwise, don't really care ;)

Greetings,
Kathal

PS: Run the Mentor SB plan, it is better (and easier to pilot) than the DDFT board.

[Quasim0ff]

Revised/Unlimited are best for lands: beeing the only white bordered cards in your deck make them easier to find while fetching. It's much more comfortable.

For the dark ritual, I always loved the Ice Age and first editions arts.

Lets be real: The people arguing about WB lands being better are people who don't own bb duals.

[Gikkman]

Lets be real: The people arguing about WB lands being better are people who don't own bb duals.

What you say is true, but please let me keep on living in denial together with my WB duals

[.dk]

.dk - I can't imagine I looked too dejected! I was unfamiliar with the deck at the time and I still think that was one of the coolest ways I have ever lost a game/match.

Bee - I only have Revised/Unlimited with that art. I will probably stick with MM and maybe go to Beta when I have an extra $60 laying around.

Thanks for the advice!

lol i'll take your word for it! that's what my memory says happened to so i'll stick with it. ;) although, that may be munging some other matches against RW Painter together too.

Oh yeah, and Moon Ponder all the way. And beta lands, rituals, etc. My preference anyway.