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Thread: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

  1. #2981
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    100% what Richard Cheese said.

    Also I was asked to come up with a name to differentiate this list from the previous build of TinFins. I came up with TI Fins (titanium fins) because titanium is the shinier and better version of tin. Is that just silly?
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  2. #2982

    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by phazonmutant View Post
    100% what Richard Cheese said.

    titanium is the shinier and better version of tin. Is that just silly?
    As a chemist, this makes no sense. I prefer the "harder" rationale. Giggidy


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  3. #2983

    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    So, we've discussed a lot but I figured I would take the list out (especially since I haven't been to my LGS since October) and try to win some games off the backs of some children.

    Long story short, I scrubbed out with a 1-3 finishing record in the 16 person pod.

    My list was similar to @phazonmutant except -4 brainstorm, -4 Careful study, -1 elesh norn,-2 reanimate, +4 faithless looting, +2 Top, +1 chrome mox, +4 cabal therapy.

    For the SB I had a heavy mentor plan with:

    4 Monastery Mentor
    4 Disenchant
    3 Deathmark
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Stronghold Gambit


    Match 1 was against miracles on the draw:
    -With a T1 chancellor, they fizzle a ponder, which hints at counter magic, but then again, they are only going to grow stronger as the game progresses and so I run a T1 griselbrand into force and quickly find my opponent kept a T2/T3 top/ counterbalance to lock me out.

    +2 Needle, +4 Mentor, +2 Disenchant, +2 gambit, -3 Griselbrand, -3 shallow grave, -2 unmask, - 1 chrome mox, -1 reanimate.

    -On the play I chancellor into needle naming top. Discard force from their hand and go into a T2 mentor to which they blind flip into terminus, and quickly get clique online with containment preist (was not expecting the priest).

    Match 2 RUG lands:
    -T1 chancellor -> griselbrand->Emrakul (yay)
    +4 mentor, +2 needle, +1 disenchant, -2 GB, -2 exhume, -2 therapy. I should have brought in gambit here, I think I was overzealous on trying mentor.
    T1 Therapy opens up the lanes for a T2 mentor to which they set up thorns and even get to the bottom 25 of their deck but never get a pfire online, and find 4 stages but no crops or dark depths. Mentor takes it with a pithing needle on stage to seal it up (he showed me a post board sideboard of all 4 decays *kanye shrug*).

    Match 3 BUG delver:
    -T1 Chancellor on the draw still dies to dazing a ritual and then wastelanding my badlands. I'm stuck on no mana with entomb shallow grave in hand as they set up Dr. Shaman and delver for the beats.
    +3 Deathmark, +2 needle, -2 gb, -1 chrome mox, -2 unmask
    G2 On play, opt to discard from their hand instead of binning griselbrand and see force's, and shamans. It doesn't take too long after that. We played about 6 games total since we had the time and faced a T1 DRS and daze every game. Sometimes we get the nuts and sometimes we have an allergic reaction.

    Match 4 D&t:
    I don't remember game 1 exactly but it involved, port, wasteland, and a fast thalia to make faithless looting too expensive of a card.

    +2 disenchant, +3 deathmark, +2 needle, -3 gb, -2 therapy, -1 top (this was a clean mentor plan that I missed).

    I mull to 6 on the play as does my opp. I don't have chancellor but I T1 reanimate griselbrand going to 12, activate going to 5 and do not find a ritual to entomb/exhume children. But I have several unmasks, strip the swords, and prelate and then needle the karakas that I see in hand that we was smirking at (he didn't expect needle). With only lands and 1 SFM he topdecks swords, this can only happen when I'm a pilot. My T2 is playing a top to reload, I don't have enough still to go again but I will next turn having fetched only basics to avoid wasteland. He proceeds to topdeck RiP, and I can't find a disenchant before a germ token kills me.

    I could have mulliganed more aggressively, like BR typically does, but I still have a decent amount of T1 either into counter magic or resolving. I did fizzle twice however which never feels great. Top was decent but definitely slower than I hoped to get going.

    Mentor out of the side was unexpected by everyone and ran away in some cases. And a would have had the miracles player not blind flipped a turn 2 terminus.

    Today wasn't my night but I definitely think the list might have potential.

  4. #2984
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by phazonmutant View Post
    100% what Richard Cheese said.

    Also I was asked to come up with a name to differentiate this list from the previous build of TinFins. I came up with TI Fins (titanium fins) because titanium is the shinier and better version of tin. Is that just silly?
    Current iteration is Tin Fins 3: Return of the Onion Burst. Since this is the first "major" iteration since that design... how about Tin Fins 4: Spark's Revenge? :)

    I've played some games with this - including last Monday at my LGS. I got owned - although I think most matches were just variance. Hard to beat the Chalice @ 1 -> Tangle Wire -> Trinisphere -> Chalice @ 2 starts. Overall, the list feels strong, but I agree it's very disruption light. Chancellor is very swingy - great sometimes and just balls others. I think there is something there though - particularly in some specific metas. Feels like it would be stronger vs. Miracles and Death and Taxes. Just very... different vs. Delver variants.

    Think I'm going to play around with the Unmask + Therapy variants that Kai and Logan were trying out before.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    His graveyard was a fucking encyclopedia of countermagic.

  5. #2985

    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    If you're into names:

    Tin Snips.
    If you're wondering how I produce blue mana, I copy my opponent's Island with Thespian's Stage

    My Youtube and Twitch usernames are DNSolver.

    I am the Legacy metagame:

    -2016 Eternal Weekend Europe won by BR Reanimator (I wrote the primer)
    -2016 Eternal Weekend North America won by Turbo Dark Depths (I write about and develop the winning version specifically)
    -Refiner of Hogaak Depths.

  6. #2986
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    If it's truly the next evolution, I say we go with

    TinFins 4: Rise of Shrabster

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMvQ...youtu.be&t=564

    I think we need to keep everything Sealab and preferably Grizzlebees related. I think we have enough technical people in here to understand the importance of good naming conventions.
    I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel

    "Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."

  7. #2987
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    If it's truly the next evolution, I say we go with

    TinFins 4: Rise of Shrabster

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMvQ...youtu.be&t=564

    I think we need to keep everything Sealab and preferably Grizzlebees related. I think we have enough technical people in here to understand the importance of good naming conventions.
    Non-Sealab and Grizzelbees deck names need to get out.
    Tinfins & Bizarro Stormy & Belcher & DDFT
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    Acclimation has solved the deck. Thread CLOSED.

  8. #2988
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by Acclimation View Post
    Non-Sealab and Grizzelbees deck names need to get out.
    yeah! go make your own bizarro thread! i love you! bizzaro!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    His graveyard was a fucking encyclopedia of countermagic.

  9. #2989
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Ok, ok. Rise of the Shrabster it is.

    I goldfished a ton of games this past week (25 or so) and the list feels strong. Definitely liking the Children of Korlis. The mulligan rate is pretty high, but fortunately it mulligans well. Feels like if the hand doesn't have an in, mana, and an out, or one of the above and a Brainstorm + Fetch, then it's a ship. Excited to try it tonight.
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  10. #2990
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by .dk View Post
    yeah! Go make your own bizarro thread! I love you! Bizzaro!
    Hey who's got a peanut for Turtleface!?
    I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel

    "Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."

  11. #2991
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Played the list last night. 1-0 against real decks, 2-1 against rogue decks. 60% of the time it worked every time.

    R1 - UWR Stoneblade thing?
    No clue what he was doing. Game 1 I kept a hand of Brainstorm, Lotus Petal, Reanimate, Marsh Flats, Underground Sea, Tundra, Dark Ritual hoping to get a turn 1, but my brainstorm drew another Lotus Petal and 2 more Dark Rituals. Woof. I put back 2 Rituals, fetched Sea (because I was happy if he wasted) to play around Stifle (just in case). Drew another Brainstorm which hit a fetch but still no ins. I had seen Stoneforge and Wasteland so far, so didn't fetch on my turn, but he played Island and passed, then blew me out with a Stifle. What is happening. A couple turns later i played enough lands and petals to cast Chancellor, which he Counterspelled. What?
    I brought in a couple Serenity for a Dark Rit and the Children.
    Game 2 he mulled, kept the scry on top. I had Sea, Unmask, Reanimate, Shallow Grave, Entomb, Griselbrand, Brainstorm. Tough choice what to do. I ended up Unmasking him pitching Griselbrand, and saw: Force, Brainstorm, Strand, Bolt (postboard?!), Nahiri, Emrakul. Interesting. I took Brainstorm because his hand looked like hot garbage and I should have time. Then I had the tough choice - what would he keep on top with that hand? My worst case scenario was Wasteland, so I decided to play Brainstorm to try to hit another B source, since I only had one land. If he didn't have Wasteland, I could Entomb in upkeep and get a fresh draw for a black source. Well, my Brainstorm hit Tundra, Chancellor, and another Reanimate, and he had a Waste on top. That sucks. Time passed. He missed his fourth land drop and eventually I hit two Lotus Petals, so decided the safest play is to try for an Entomb + Shallow Grave in his end step because he might tap out for Nahiri. Well, he cast Brainstorm main phase, I responded with Entomb and Shallow Grave, both of which resolved. To play around Stifle, I decided to draw 7. No black source, so that hand was not winning next turn. Drew another 7. He double bolted for lethal. What even happened this match?
    0-1

    R2 - BUG Midrange
    Last time I saw him he was on Miracles. We both mulled and I figured my best shot was to go for an unprotected turn 1. Unmask myself pitching unmask, take Griselbrand, Reanimate off Lotus Petal and Dark Rit. He scooped to the Unmask before I revealed any more cards.
    -2 Dark Rit, -1 Lotus Petal, -1 Careful Study, -1 Children of Korlis, -1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, -2 Shallow Grave, -1 Unmask; +2 Mentor, +2 Show and Tell, +1 Tundra, +2 Serenity, +2 Thoughtseize
    Game 2, he went underground sea into Deathrite. Huh. I had to hope he didn't have the Forest, so I left up Fetch and Entomb. Well, he had a Forest, but tapped it to play Hierarch. I went for Reanimate, he Forced, then Wasted me off black and ate the Griselbrand. Tundra bites again. I drew a Careful Study and binned a couple of Chancellors, while for a few turns he beat down with Noble Hierarch, no cards in hand, and Deathrite up. I played Mentor off Scrubland, Dark Ritual, and Tundra, with a pile of fat creatures in my hand. He topdecked Jace, "nice". Jace bounced Mentor and a Chancellor I got into play off of Exhume, and eventually won.
    (from maindeck) -1 Children of Korlis, -1 Unmask, +2 Thoughtseize. Just trying to race.
    Game 3 I had a nice Chancellor, 2 land, entomb, reanimate, exhume hand. Chancellor countered his Ponder, and he didn't have force for Reanimate. Yay.
    1-1

    R3 - MUD beatdown
    This was a brew - no chalices main. I reanimated a Griselbrand and he scooped to Children game 1. Game 2 Chancellor kept him off Chalice on 1, then I put it into play and it killed him.
    -1 Shallow Grave, -1 Dark Ritual, -1 Careful Study; +2 Serenity, +1 Tundra
    2-1

    R4 - Brain in the Jar brew
    This deck is real bad. Game 1 he died very easily because he had nothing. Game 2 had a pretty sweet situation - He had a turn 1 Crypt into Thing in the Ice, while I had an Exhume, Shallow Grave, Dark Rit, Unmask, Entomb, Griselbrand, Careful Study, and a couple lands in play. I looked deep into his soul, decided to Careful Study binning Griselbrand and a Reanimate and passed. He foolishly played Brain in a Jar and passed. I drew a second Dark Rit (money), played Land, Unmasked him pitching Dark Rit. He revealed two Ponders and a land. Dark Rit, Exhume, he cracked Crypt, I played Shallow Grave. Griselbrand comes into play, resolve Crypt. I played Entomb for Chancellor in response to Exhume, and killed him from there.
    3-1

    So the upshot is that the build feels decent, and having 8 reanimation spells that don't target is incredibly powerful. You can do dirty things like Careful Study two creatures or respond to interaction with Shallow Grave. The sideboard feels bad though. I don't think Show and Tell is holding its weight as a 3-of, and the Tundra really screwed me a couple of times. I'm not quite sure what the bad matchups are yet, or what you can do to address them. For example, Delver I think you just have to go fast because Mentor is bad and their mana disruption is powerful. Here's a possible revised board:
    2 Show and Tell (on the chopping block)
    2 Monastery Mentor
    2 Serenity
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Scrubland
    1 Iona
    1 Elesh Norn
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
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  12. #2992

    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Good Morning my fellow Korlis Brethren?... Tin Finians? Since we're on names for a second what do we call the collective of us who have seen the light? By that I mean, what do you call us besides awesome.

    Anyways, another legacy night at my LGS and BR is still not doing so well. I feel it was a lot better before the summer when grave hate was not as consistent and not everyone was so familiar with reanimator. But here we are. The list I sleeved up was

    //Lands
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Badlands
    1 Godless Shrine
    4 Swamp
    1 Mountain

    //Mana
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Lotus Petal

    //Creatures
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    4 Griselbrand
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    1 Children of Korlis

    //Reanimation
    4 Entomb
    4 Shallow Grave
    4 Exhume
    2 Reanimate

    //Discard
    4 Unmask
    4 Cabal Therapy

    //Draw
    4 Faithless Looting
    3 Gitaxian Probe

    //Sideboard
    1 Lost Legacy
    2 Pithing Needle
    4 Disenchant
    4 Monastery Mentor
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    2 Deathmark
    1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite


    The deck felt nice by itself just goldfishing through the motions. It is easy to keep an opening hand with a t1 discard on the opponent and a t2 reanimate. Or simply t1 Griselbrand with chancellor.

    However, it is never as easy when playing against someone who can simply have 4 force of wills in hand and 2 other blue cards, or 3 swords to plowshares.

    I went 2-2 overall but definitely think I beat myself a lot of the time.

    R1: GW Maverick
    On the Draw
    G1 I forgot to write down, but involved a T1 DRS and a T2 Thalia with wasteland and swords.
    -2 Griselbrand, -1 Cabal Therapy, -1 Unmask, -2 Exhume, +4 Mentor, +2 Pithing Needle (I didn't know what to board here).
    G2 Had the turn 1 unmask them, see 2 swords to plow shares and a DRS, I take a swords. T2 Reanimate griselbrand, draw 7, sac to cabal therapy and get the second StP. Shallow grave and swing to draw another 7. Fizzle on the 14 and end at 2 life after some weird probing which is conveniently how much DRS does after my opp. untaps.

    We had a lot of time and played 5 games after this. I win 4 of the 5 with the 5th one getting cut off by the second round but I was at 17 with GB and they were at 3.

    R2: Pox
    On the Draw
    G1 I do the whole exhume griselbrand, sac to cabal therapy, shallow grave griselbrand and get a concession from my opponent.
    I forgot what I boarded, probably similar to before not realizing that they had ensaring bridge and pithing needle.
    G2 My opponent hits all of the discard, wasteland, pox cards they could hope for and beat me down with some man-lands.
    G3 I board into my original deck with +1 mentor -1 probe. I go petal->looting->bin Griselbrand pass. I have entomb, shallow grave, exhume, ritual, and the 1 basic mountain in hand.
    Their turn 1 is swamp needle. I shallow grave emrakul off of a topdeck petal hoping they kept a hand low on lands. They did not. And while I get rid of needle and put them on 5 on T2, I lose to attrition.

    R3: Bye

    R4: Manaless Dredge
    G1 Neither of us can prize out but we want to play with the decks some more, he was learning his deck so wanted the practice, so we shuffle up and go. I T1 reanimate Griselbrand and althrough I whiffed on my draws I hit a lot of discard spells to keep my opponent from discarding a dredger. 21 pts of damage the hard way.

    I didn't sideboard as this was more for fun and I kind of just wanted to see what the deck could do. Otherwise, 4 mentor and elesh norn for 4 exhume and a Griselbrand probably.
    G2 We both keep a hand with chancellor in it and so I send a children into it with the T2 ritual >entomb->shallow grave in hand. They kept a hand with 2 faerie macabres. Which means unless I had cabal therapy right there and then, I was boned. And so I was boned. It took a while for zombies to come on line but they got there.

    G3 wasn't played as he had to go but board plan if I wanted to would definitely be the elesh norn and mentor plan.

    -----

    I think a chrome mox would be nice as a 5th petal. I've probably made my landdrop by the time I'm going off, so the 1 chrome mox allows me out of some sticky situations for when I draw a bunch of gas but not a petal to get going.

    Might cut a probe for it. The probes were a lot smoother than top. Great with therapy, helps give that 8th card griselbrand always seems to want, just unfortunate that there is no easy way to cast it in my deck. Life is a resource, sure but 1life per card is way more efficient than 2 life per card.

    I love the mentors in the SB, they are so good, but I didn't like lost legacy as much as I thought, same for disenchant. Any thoughts for those spots? As well as any other thoughts on how to spruce up RB? Besides buying Underground Seas I mean.

  13. #2993

    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobra_D View Post
    I think a chrome mox would be nice as a 5th petal. I've probably made my landdrop by the time I'm going off, so the 1 chrome mox allows me out of some sticky situations for when I draw a bunch of gas but not a petal to get going.
    In Br animator shell, I preferred running 1x Simian Spirit Guide over 1x Crome Mox. The main reason was not actually producing R color mana, which was uselss most of the time; the main reason was playing through Daze and Thalia. Also, the card disadvantage of Chrome Mox is real when you have mulliganed into 4-6 and end up with a Chrome Mox in hand instead of it being a Petal or Guide.

    I recommend giving Simian/Elvish Spirit Guide a go in the Chrome Mox slot. It's worse after comboing off than the Mox because you can't spirit guide into Dark Ritual, but it's so much better at enabling going off that I liked it a lot.

  14. #2994
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobra_D View Post
    As well as any other thoughts on how to spruce up RB? Besides buying Underground Seas I mean.
    I don't want to sidetrack this thread too much because U is better than R, but it seems Burning Wish seems like it deserves consideration. Even if only a 1 or 2 of, it gives you an out vs Ensnaring Bridge and would certainly be a welcome/flexible draw with maybe just 1 Reanimate and a Collective Brutality added to the SB (not a full wish board). Also, I would 2nd the recommendation for 1x Simian Spirit Guide over Chrome Mox. Also, Gamble is better in this deck than others with the chance of binning a rez target.

  15. #2995
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by dameus View Post
    I don't want to sidetrack this thread too much because U is better than R, but it seems Burning Wish seems like it deserves consideration. Even if only a 1 or 2 of, it gives you an out vs Ensnaring Bridge and would certainly be a welcome/flexible draw with maybe just 1 Reanimate and a Collective Brutality added to the SB (not a full wish board). Also, I would 2nd the recommendation for 1x Simian Spirit Guide over Chrome Mox. Also, Gamble is better in this deck than others with the chance of binning a rez target.
    Playing a Brutality main also gives you an out to Bridge maindeck. I'm pretty dubious of spending 1R being worth some extra selection.
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  16. #2996
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by phazonmutant View Post
    I'm pretty dubious of spending 1R being worth some extra selection.
    Unlessssssss you want to be playing 4 LEDs anyway. :)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    His graveyard was a fucking encyclopedia of countermagic.

  17. #2997
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    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Looks like I'm getting suckered into a Team Constructed event in the next couple of weekends, and I'm 99% certain I'm on this and won't last minute swap to Belcher.

    I'm going to continue putting the Unmask version through its paces tonight at FNM, and see about getting some Chancellors to play around with the other version.

    For SB options in a BR shell, these are the cards I always have set to the side to play with:

    Swords to Plowshares
    Serenity
    Reanimate
    Massacre
    Dread of Night
    Collective Brutality
    Surgical Extraction
    Tendrils
    Thoughtseize
    Unmask

    And then for red specific cards:
    Pyroclasm
    Shattering spree
    Gamble
    Through the Breach

    And then if you decide to take the plunge into the underground sea, you open up:
    Chain of Vapor
    LDV
    Ponder
    Show and Tell
    Hurkyl's
    Echoing Truth
    Brainstorm

    Personally, I'm not too big on the BR versions, because I prefer having Ponder and Brainstorm available MD, as it lets me keep hands with half the combo and have a better shot at finding the other half, as well as makes our mulligans less painful. Sure, you do gain consistency by having more combo pieces, but sometimes you get stuck drawing the wrong half of your deck and having cantrips helps prevent that.

    As far as SSG over Mox, I'm less worried about playing through Daze+Thalia but more worried about continuing to combo, and I would much prefer B or U over a random R. Sometimes Mox isn't the best in a mulligan situation, or as an IMS to go off, but mid combo it's great, and it sticks around if you have to reload for the next turn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by .dk View Post
    Acclimation has solved the deck. Thread CLOSED.

  18. #2998

    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by dameus View Post
    I don't want to sidetrack this thread too much because U is better than R, but it seems Burning Wish seems like it deserves consideration.
    For anyone planning to run a B.Wishboard, 1x Meltdown (g1 vs. Phyrexian Revoker, g2 vs. Grafdigger's Cage, Pithing Needle, Tormod's Crypt, Nihil Spellbomb, Ensnaring Bridge), 1x Lost Legacy, 1x Rolling Earthquake and 1x Toxic Deluge are definitely worth considering.

    For anyone planning to run crap cantrip/filtering/tutoring effects in Br shell, I would recommend Manamorphose, Gitaxian Probe, Overmaster or Insolent Neonate instead of Gamble. The card disadvantage and randomness from Gamble has been a relevant downside in my experience. And no matter what red cards you consider, none of them comes even close to Brainstorm + fetchland for filtering.

  19. #2999

    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Quote Originally Posted by .dk View Post
    Unlessssssss you want to be playing 4 LEDs anyway. :)
    Fwiw I have been testing extensively with LED lately and I am fairly certain at this point that the answer is, yes, I want to be playing 4 LEDs.

    The thing is the Burning wishes were the worst part of the deck.

    Yes, you can play a cute wish board, and yes, you can cast burning wish, sac LED, discard griselbrand and cast the exhume you fetch. But it generally ranges from adequate to poor, except when I would literally be going to fetch the tendrils for the kill.I lost the emrakul plan because it doesn't play nice with LED. Anyway the general problem with wish is that it's just slow, and doesn't find the entomb effect unless you want the glacially slow buried alive.

    So I found that I wasn't liking the burning wish version. But LED...is...insane.

    First, the card that makes the deck so much more bonkers, and I haven't even seen it in the LED lists unless I'm missing something, is unburial rites. The first one is basically 5 copies with entomb and is absolutely mandatory. Like one of the best cards in the deck type of mandatory. The first time I had a hand like LED, LED, chrome mox(which is cuttable since you rarely fizzle with led builds), griselbrand, land, entomb I thought "guess I keep cause it has entomb but I need to get lucky." Then I realized this hand wins on the spot.

    I'm now on various builds of u/b led fins. LED Zeppfins, if you will. Emrakul is back even though he is a nonbo with LED, the loop kill is so much cleaner and leaner than burning wish/tendrils imo.

    Play with LED and at least 1 unburial rites and never look back. Oh, play exhume over goryos/reanimate. I run 4 shallow, 3-4 exhume, 1-4 unburial (depending on how allin my build is) and 0 reanimate/goryo. The lack of haste actually rarely matters, but not targeting often does in LED builds.

    I am working on a deck currently that will probably be too much for most of you to stomach even if it's good, which it probably isn't. ..I call it "Suicide Fins" and it uses spoils of the vault. I'm currently 8-3 in leagues on modo with 16, yes 16 turn 1 goldfishes in 26 games. I did lose 5 of those to interaction. I'll ship a list soon.

  20. #3000

    Re: [Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

    Suicide fins

    4 LED
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Dark Ritual
    2 Chrome Mox
    4 Griselbee
    4 Entomb
    4 Shallow Grave
    4 Exhume
    4 Unburial Rites
    4 Unmask
    4 Spoils of the Vault
    2 Children of Korlis
    2 Pull From Eternity
    1 Spaghetti Monster
    2 Gemstone Luckbox Caverns
    2 Scrubland
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Swamp

    SB
    4 Chancellor of the Annex
    2 Serenity
    2 Duress
    1 Silence
    2 Massacre
    2 Gemstone Caverns
    2 Surgical Extraction


    The idea here is to push the envelope as far as possible. Traditional Tin Fins probably turn 1s somewhere in the neighborhood of 20%? I'm not really sure; I haven't ever just sat down and goldfished. But whatever the percentage is, the primary vessel is dark ritual(4) + entomb(4) + reanimation (7-8). Though it's not a given I'll always assume 1 land/petal to avoid repetition. You also get ritual/discard (6-8)/griselbrand(2-4)/reanimate effect.

    Just look at how many more combos the above deck adds. Now LED + unburial + Griselbrand offers a 3 card combo with no overlap to the ritual entomb reanimate plan (which remains intact). LED + entomb + griselbrand OR unburial works with an extra petal or ritual. As does shallow/exhume + LED + griselbrand.

    Now spoils can find some and actually add some that otherwise wouldn't work if drawn naturally. If you don't just kill yourself that is! For instance LED + griselbrand + spoils works without an extra mana source beyond the first. Spoils, sac LED and name exhume or shallow grave. I suspect exhume might actually be better here because if you go to 4 life or whatever you might be better off with a permenant dude. It's close.

    Of course there are just tons of ways to make griselbrand T1, some of which are more convoluted like ritual, LED, LED, spoils. Actually, how convulted is that really? Cast ritual spoils sac the diamonds, name griselbrand. Cast griselbrand. I've done this once but not on turn 1.

    A note on pull from eternity and double children. Pull is a pet card of mine, but it is necessary here. Sometimes you will exile emrakul with spoils and you will need to pull it (or children) back to fully combo off. There are cute combos as well, though. The gemstone caverns allow you to exile a griselbrand on your opponents turn on the draw and pull it from eternity. As a two-off on each it won't happen often but it does add to the t1 %, as does cheating the land on turn 0 even without cute pull tricks. Unmask and chrome mox also proactively exile griselbrand (or unburial rites!) for you to pull. Pull isn't reliable, but it's necessary and has the upside of sometimes but rarely being an entomb.

    The two children are a concession to the fact that you're running spoils of the vault in a combo deck where your life total matters. You will sometimes even cast a children pre-spoils and have a reset button (again if you don't just kill yourself). It's also imperative to be more likely to find one fast when going off.

    sideboading. On the play I get rid of the 2 or sometimes just 1 caverns. You can function with 11 lands and 2 chrome mox. The first caverns is more ok than you'd think too. Usually some spoils come out. Against any deck with FOW or any deck where sticking chancellor is great (ANT, belcher, etc) I bring in those. On the draw I only bring in chancellor if I'm happy to be exhuming him. Maybe vs heavy discard decks. On the draw I cut two fetches for the full Monty luckbox caverns package. And I add discard and silence vs the fow decks. Serenity/extraction/massacre self explanatory except I'd note that I don't bring in extraction vs ant. I just get them dead or stick chancellor asap. Plus lol two children bruh.
    Massacre might not be needed. If things go as planned they are dead pre Thalia. It's nice when things don't go as scripted ofc.

    This deck is a blast. I'm fairly confident that brainstorming is just better (but I'm still fairly confident we should be brainstorming and playing black lotus lite) and certainly feels less risky, but spoils is a very powerful card (especially with LED) and the risk of killing yourself or fizzling might just be worth it when it comes to the W/L column. A loss is a loss. Why not laugh with your opponent when you 37 yourself on turn 1 looking for that LED?

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