[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[TTX]

That's very cool! Wess, I dig it. I can really appreciate the Chancellor. How often do you reanimate her? I think 4 Thoughtseizes may be too many, I'd rather run
2 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy



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[DNSolver]

I haven't been playing this deck as long as Wess, but I have been playing long enough to have some thoughts on BR TinFins. My list:

4 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Children of Korlis
3 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur

4 Entomb
4 Faithless Looting
4 Thoughtseize
4 Unmask

4 Reanimate
4 Shallow Grave
4 Goryo's Vengeance

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
2 Badlands
1 Bayou

Sideboard:
1 Ashen Rider
4 Burning Wish
1 Meltdown
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Stronghold Gambit
1 Pyroclasm
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Buried Alive
1 Massacre
1 Wretched Banquet
1 Exhume
1 Reverent Silence

I tried a version with Chancellor of the Annex. I found that while the deck was consistent at getting a turn 1 creature, too often it was being Chancellor of the Annex. I have found that Jin-Gitaxias is powerful enough on turn 1 (even if it gets Swords'd / Karakas'd) that it is worth running. It draws us 7, hits for 5. That means that just Emrakul is lethal.

The differences between mine and Wess':

4 Unmask - this is disgusting. Play it if you are running mostly black cards. Free discard on opponent or free binning a creature.
3 Jin-Gitaxias - see above
no maindeck Tendrils - I've never needed it G1 because the G1 plan has been powerful enough that I've been able to win with Griz plus Emrakul attacking or with hardcast Emrakul post combat.
2 Chrome Mox over extra lands - I've been happy with these, they dramatically increase the chance of being able to win with 14 cards by increasing the number of starting mana sources when drawing with Griselbrand. I haven't had too much trouble with the low land count.

Sideboard - I came up with this plan after losing too many games to my anti-hate cards not matching up properly. I would have Needle when they had Containment Priest or RIP, I would have Decay when they had Leyline, etc. I decided that I wanted flexibility when I sideboarded instead of making it a guessing game. Plus, I am a fan of Pomegrant's stream and I loved the Burning Wish sideboard options that let you sometimes just turn 1 Empty for 14.

The sideboard plan:

ALL matchups: -1 Reanimate, -1 Thoughtseize, -1 Unmask, -1 Chrome Mox for +4 Burning Wish
Specific for Lands, could come in against Ensnaring Bridge: +1 Ashen Rider
Against Trinisphere decks: -1 Dark Ritual instead of -1 Chrome Mox

The Ashen Rider is a flex slot that I made after getting a draw against Lands, when they had Dark Depths/Stage combo on loop plus Karakas/Maze. This could probably also be a Pithing Needle or an Archetype of Endurance - it's just to shut down Karakas against decks that can reliably get it (with 4 Crop Rotation).

All of the Wish targets have been Wished for, they're all useful. The only one that I have really innovated here is Wretched Banquet, which is to kill Deathrite Shaman if you absolutly have to. It has also killed an opposing Tidespout Tyrant. After board, you have Reanimate, Thoughtseize, and Unmask in the sideboard to Wish for so that Wish can literally be any card you want.

[quadich]

hey guys,

so i have been testing with intuition alot now: The card feels like it's exactly what the deck wants most of the time. It REALLY makes playing around Deathrite Game 1 alot easier.
To me that alone is the selling point for Intuition over Lim Duls and Senseis. Being a mana slower than Lim Duls can certainly hurt, but intuition will never cost life, can be cast on the combo turn
and wil always find what we need, also did i mention that it helps playing around deathrite shaman^^? Postboard it also help alot although i found that in the more grindy match ups it can become pretty awkward, as
it essentially removes threats from our deck which can come back to bit us. For that reason i want to try out Emrakul as a card i leave in the deck postboard, just to shuffle these cards back in and to reactivate intuition,
though i feel that thats not really what i want to be doing most of the time. Then again being able to find mentor/SFM/Sowrds reliably when we need to is a huge plus.

[Wess]

That's very cool! Wess, I dig it. I can really appreciate the Chancellor. How often do you reanimate her? I think 4 Thoughtseizes may be too many, I'd rather run
2 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am reanimating Chancellor a fair amount of time, obviously, Griselbrand is plan A, but the Chancellor is surprisingly powerful, a turn 1 reanimation is usually GG against more than 1/2 the format, ie. Delver decks, they have no way of dealing with it, ANT/TES, obviously, Death and Taxes, etc

As for the discard, there is no Gitaxian Probe in BR lists, so, cabal therapy isn't good. Also, due to the diversity of hate, ie. Surigical Extraction, Cage, RIP, Faerie Macabre, Containment Priest, FOW, probe is horrible blind.



@DNSolver: Your list also looks really interesting, I can definitely see the argument for Unmask especially if you're choosing Gitaxis over Chancellor. With Chancellor, its too much card disadvantage, but, as a package with Gitaxis it makes sense, as with either Gris or Gitaxis you're re-filling your hand. Same logic applies to chrome mox vs lands....the extra lands I run make the deck much resilient and less mulligans and of course less card disadvantage. Your list is even more "all-in" than mine.

As for Tendrils, its 1 card in the main, which allows you to win without passing the turn, which will win you a non arbitrary amount of games, so I like it in the main still. I have cut it before as well though, but find that I keep putting it back for that reason.

My list is by no means perfectly and finally tuned, but, I think BR is defiantly the way to go.

[Ricca84]

Hey guys.
I'm starting playing this deck after several years playing ANT, because would like to play something different, but with big comboing potential.
Here my deck list that is very standard.

2 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Children of Korlis
1 Tendrils of Agony

4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
3 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Reanimate

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize

1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Island
1 Swamp

// Sideboard
4 Monastery Mentor
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Serenity
1 Flusterstorm

I start coping some decklist I saw about this deck. So I'm not here to giustify why 2 griselbrand MD or why SDT MD ecc. I change some bullet a litte bit in order to feel better with my own playstile.

I've a good feeling with the Chrome mox maindeck, and not really convinced about the Island. I play Tendrils MD. I agree that it could be very clunky in first hand, but give you the theoretical possibility to draw 21 and find the finisher that would be fine when you have to be fast.

As in this threat the main point is about sideboarding, because generally G1 is not a big problem vs more or less every deck. The problems come from opponents Sideboards.
This sideboard is very classical. Would like to understand how you sideboarding vs:
- Grixis Delver
- Eldrazi

@Grixis Delver. Here I got some trouble with the dudes plan. They keep in the bolts and generally not play too much graveyard hate. Most of the time soft GY hate like surgical extraction, because they already have Shaman. They play a lot of tax counter that hurts so much the main plan.
How do you plan the G2/G3 here? What is the plan A vs this deck?
- Plowing DR and try to comboing out?
- Stoneforging Batterskull hoping they don't bolt your enabler?

@Eldrazi
Here is crucial that they don't hit chalices or multiple sphere. Sometimes a single Emrakul attack will be enought. From sideboard enter some mana lock and GY hate pieces.
What is the plan Here? Not really sure that dudes plan should be good here.
Again how do you plan the G2/G3 games? There are difference between on the play and on the draw strategies?

[VeniVidiVici]

Hi folks, I've heard a lot of good things about the Mentor SB plan. For those of you who run it, have you found it effective against players who know about it and SB accordingly? I can imagine Mentor stealing games against Miracles or w/e but it seems a lot harder if they keep in their removal.

[from Cairo]

Hi folks, I've heard a lot of good things about the Mentor SB plan. For those of you who run it, have you found it effective against players who know about it and SB accordingly? I can imagine Mentor stealing games against Miracles or w/e but it seems a lot harder if they keep in their removal.

I've found it pretty effective even in rooms that know I have it. The builds with bob/sfm you can pick how deep you want to transform. Shuffling in 15 sb slots the opp can't be sure how you're 60 will look g2 and g3.

[phazonmutant]

An interesting list 5-0'd a Legacy league.

CAGGII
// Creatures (4)
1 Children of Korlis
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Griselbrand

// Sorceries (14)
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
1 Reanimate
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Thoughtseize

// Instants (23)
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Daze
4 Entomb
3 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Shallow Grave

// Artifacts (6)
1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
1 Sensei's Divining Top

// Lands (14)
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
2 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs

// 61 cards
// Sideboard (15)
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Dark Confidant
2 Flusterstorm
2 Meddling Mage
4 Monastery Mentor
2 Swords to Plowshares

Many of these decklist decisions - like playing 4 Daze and 2 Swamps, playing only 1 Top in the 75 and 4 Mentor, 61 cards, and only 1 white source for 8 white spells post board - don't make any sense to me. But I like seeing the Mentor plan go 5-0, and the Dazes are interesting.

[KIP_NZ]

All you guys are looking at this wrong, the goal is to make the deck look pretty rather than win

My creatures are getting prettier

[alaska]

An interesting list 5-0'd a Legacy league.

CAGGII
// Creatures (4)
1 Children of Korlis
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Griselbrand

// Sorceries (14)
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
1 Reanimate
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Thoughtseize

// Instants (23)
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Daze
4 Entomb
3 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Shallow Grave

// Artifacts (6)
1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
1 Sensei's Divining Top

// Lands (14)
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
2 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs

// 61 cards
// Sideboard (15)
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Dark Confidant
2 Flusterstorm
2 Meddling Mage
4 Monastery Mentor
2 Swords to Plowshares

Many of these decklist decisions - like playing 4 Daze and 2 Swamps, playing only 1 Top in the 75 and 4 Mentor, 61 cards, and only 1 white source for 8 white spells post board - don't make any sense to me. But I like seeing the Mentor plan go 5-0, and the Dazes are interesting.

I've experimented with 2-3 daze in the past. It's incredibly swingy here, and can be really strong. Feels good to have extra backup for the T1 land ritual entomb shallow grave

That said, it's absolutely putrid to draw late game. I eventually moved away from it.


It did feel particularly strong vs miracles though, and I recall leaving them in on the draw to tag a counterbalance and being rewarded for that choice.

[alastair]

My creatures are getting prettier

James Griffin old border ?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Yeah. It's an obvious alter. I like it, but some judges may dislike that you had to cover up the letters with white.

[KIP_NZ]

James Griffin old border ?

Sure is.

[.Ix]

What do you guys think of this build? I've goldfished the stock blue version but I don't think I like it very much. This BR build seems very confident that he will go off T1/T2 and kill immediately. I've also goldfished it and it seems a lot more consistent at putting an early Griselbrand into play and winning on the spot. I'm not comfortable with the sideboard, though. I suppose the Mentor sideboard could also be okay with this build with some Scrublands in the main.


http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12807&d=274320&f=LE

13 LANDS
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs

16 CREATURES
4 Chancellor of the Annex
1 Children of Korlis
4 Griselbrand
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Sire of Insanity
1 Tidespout Tyrant

23 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Faithless Looting
2 Firestorm
4 Reanimate
1 Sickening Dreams

8 OTHER SPELLS
4 Animate Dead
4 Lotus Petal

SIDEBOARD
1 Ashen Rider
4 Blood Moon
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Grave Titan
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 Pyroblast
4 Sneak Attack

[Darkenslight]

Firestorm needs X targets, so that's a no-go. I'd also absolutely play at least 1 Big Emmy, as you really lose out on being able to make instant-speed chump blockers, too. What you're playing there is closer to straight-up Reanimator.

[.Ix]

Firestorm targets creatures and/or players, so there will always be at least two targets: you and your opponent. The discard effect is uncounterable, which is a really good bonus. I do agree this is similar to traditional Reanimator in that the creatures stick around after Reanimation, but it is also just like TinFins in the sense that it can kill on the same turn that a Griselbrand comes in, with the huge benefit of being able to just pass the turn if life is low.

I don't understand the part about Emrakul. Is Goryo's Vengeance on Emrakul as a blocker a real thing? I haven't played either deck in a real game, so I don't really know what else happens aside from the obvious stuff.

[Acclimation]

Did I click on the traditional Reanimator thread by accident?

I don't see how that deck wins the turn you reanimate something, because odds are, you are at a lower life total when you go to cast Sickening Dreams for lethal and end up killing yourself. Firestorm you need targets equal to your X value, so if you only have 2 targets (you and opponent) you can only x=2.


Also, if you haven't played a real game with either of the 2 configurations we discuss here (stock or Wish), then I don't get the point of trying to reinvent the wheel, especially into a version that's just a worse Reanimator.

[.Ix]

What? This isn't a brew I came up with. I just posted the deck from mtgtop8, guys, jeez.

You win by drawing a ton of cards with Griselbrand, Reanimating Children over and over until you have a ton of life, and then Sickening Dreams for lethal. Firestorm is for killing Deathrite and Ooze, presumably.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Link to the list?

[.Ix]

It's 5 posts above yours, Secretly.A.Bee. It's the URL right above the pasted decklist.