[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[alaska]

Bob / Mentor is a good call. I just have a craving to make tombstalker !!

You could take a page from the Grixis book and play a Gurmag Angler or two.

[Richard Cheese]

You could take a page from the Grixis book and play a Gurmag Angler or two.

Never had much past luck with Tombstalker, but there was a lot more Rest in Peace around when I was testing it. With all the DTT running around though, I wouldn't be too surprised if we started seeing that card in more sideboards again.

[bigbobbobber]

I just started testing Tin Fins on Cockatrice, and here are how the first 7 games with it have gone so far.

1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal

4 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
1 Island
1 Swamp

1 Children of Korlis
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Griselbrand

4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
3 Goryo’s Vengeance
4 Shallow Grave
1 Lim-Dûl’s Vault

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Reanimate
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Thoughtseize

Sideboard
4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
4 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Street Wraith
4 Doomsday
1 Idea’s Unbound
(If anyone can tell me how to do card links, that would be great)

Miracles – Game one, turn one combo kill. Game two SB into Doomsday.Turn four Tendrils via DD resolution, fighting through one Force of Will and Spell Pierce. I don’t remember what my hand or DD pile was, but it got there.

Elves – Game one durdle for 3 turns straight, only Thoughtseizing a Glimpse of Nature. Turn four attack with Griselbrand and Emrakul. Game two he plays DRS and passes, and then I kill him on my first turn.

Blue Painter – He counters everything and then tries to mill me, Emmy gets graveyard reshuffled into deck, combo out next turn. No game two, he rage quits. Nerd.

UB Tezzerator – Turn one City of Traitors into Chalice of the Void stymies me for a long time. Finally I Shallow Grave Griselbrand, he blocks with Baleful Strix and I’m unable to combo off. Eventually Ensnaring Bridge gets tutored up by Tezzeret the Seeker and I’m done from there. No game 2 or 3, he had to leave.

Turn one Savannah, GSZ to find Dryad Arbor, I’m smelling Elves. Turn one I land Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual, Entomb Griselbrand, and Reanimate him, passing the turn. He concedes. Game two he plays a land and passes. I sided into Doomsday, having Probed him and seeing that he is actually on 4c Loam. I mulligan to 5, then Probe him, seeing that he has a turn two Chalice for one, so I cast Dark Ritual x2 and cast Doomsday. My pile is (top to bottom) LED, Streetwraith, Laboratory Maniac, and 2 random cards. He lands Dark Confidant, but has no removal for the Lab Man and my life total is safe enough to take a few hits from Dark Confidant, so he concedes.

Turn one he plays Torpor Orb. I Entomb Griselbrand, but after mulliganing to 5 don’t find a way to resurrect our fallen Lord on my next turn. He then casts Phyrexian Dreadnought and Hunted Horror. I draw Shallow Grave and go nuts. No sideboard for game two. He plays Bayou and passes. My hand is only missing a ritual, and guess what Probe draws me? I kill him via Tendrils.

Turn one Thoughtseize, turn two Hymn to Tourach, turn three Hymn to Tourach. Turn four Bloodbraid Elf into Dark Confidant. Turn five Tarmogoyf, I concede. Game two I don’t sideboard at all and I Thoughtseize him turn one, taking Grafdigger’s Cage. HeThoughtseize’s me and takes Goryo’s Vengeance. Next turn I kill him via Children of Korlis looping into infinite storm. Game three he plays Bayou into DRS, and then on my turn I kill him.

I realize that Cockatrice might not be the best place to find quality matches, but so far I am very impressed with this deck. Probably going to build it in paper ASAP.

[Gazoline]

Have you tired using XMage instead of cockatrice? i like it more n more =)

[Richard Cheese]

Have you tired using XMage instead of cockatrice? i like it more n more =)

To run XMage or event the xmage Launcher on these systems it needs a Java Runtime Environment

[Gazoline]

Whats wrong with java and xmage? :P

[alastair]

3-1 at WNM with TinFins and a SB man plan, enjoying the scry rule.

4 Bob
4 Mentor
3 SFM
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Chain of Vapour
1 Echoing Truth

The men went 2-2 in games. Equal win / loss to what I average on Doomsday, but I'll give men another go.

Rnd 1, Hypergenises. Stick with TinFins and just be quicker.

RnD 2 I lost G1 to Red-n-Taxes with an early Thalia. The men got there game G2 after outbursts of unfair tactics; but G3 Thalia and Cannonist were enough when I needed 3cmc with W for Mentor.... difficult.

Rnd 3 against BUG winning G1, SB into men and lose to mana / 3cmc. G3 I was on TinFins with 3 Bob. Bob was amazing and the risk of flipping a monster is not to much worse than a tinker target.

Rnd 4 G2, a win for the men against Stax / Robots; he mulled pretty hard and Thoughtseize bought time, and a single mentor was enough.

Resolving one Mentor gives the win in 2-3 turns. Bob was an all-star when he lived, but you know that already. I didn't resolve SFM once, but Jitte did work.

I need to look for a 2-3 cmc B threat as I'm not sold on SFM or the bounce; but neither am I on Bitterblossom.

[Darkgobs]

Hi guys, I just saw that this list ended up 32th at SCG Indianapolis.

Creatures (4)

1 Children of Korlis
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Griselbrand

Lands (14)

1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
3 Underground Sea

Spells (42)

1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
3 Goryo's Vengeance
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Shallow Grave
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Ponder
1 Reanimate
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Thoughtseize

Sideboard (15)
2 Defense Grid
2 Pithing Needle
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Disfigure
3 Massacre
1 Bayou

Classic list, with 2 disfigures, a 2rd massacre and 2 defense gird. I am actually wondering about this last one: aren't we resillient enough vs. countermagic? It seems to me that it also stop us to cast EoT brainstorm, entomb, or even lim-dûl. Is it really worth? (knowing that it doesn't do much against the countertop combo...)

[Richard Cheese]

We're pretty resilient to counters game 1, but they can be a pain when paired with grave hate post board. Defense Grid seems decent if you're expecting Surgical/Flusterstorm.

[Koby]

So... good thing I didn't devote too much time to test out DTT in this deck. Now it's a moot point.

Basically, nothing changed aside from better options in the SB. I think Monastary Mentor might be legit as an alt-plan for the SB. Certainly better than Phyrexian Crusader lol.

I think the ADecay plan might warrant another look. I just hate boarding into so many cards vs Miracles.

[TTX]

That was my list at 32nd place last weekend. I'll have a report for you guys this weekend. For the most part the reactive sideboard did not help except versus D&T and Maverick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[.dk]

So... good thing I didn't devote too much time to test out DTT in this deck. Now it's a moot point.

Basically, nothing changed aside from better options in the SB. I think Monastary Mentor might be legit as an alt-plan for the SB. Certainly better than Phyrexian Crusader lol.

I think the ADecay plan might warrant another look. I just hate boarding into so many cards vs Miracles.

Indeed - a couple of hours burned on DTT is fine with me. :)

Boarding against Miracles: what all are you boarding in for that case? 3 Abrupt Decay and Lands? Are you bringing in Silence as well? Needles for SDT?

I'm going to a GPT this weekend to play Legacy for the first time in ages, and thinking of this board if I end up playing Tin Fins (with Tundra, Scrubland as white sources maindeck):

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Chain of Vapor
4 Silence
3 Dread of Night
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Pithing Needle? (singleton needle seems pretty terrible...)

[phazonmutant]

Indeed - a couple of hours burned on DTT is fine with me. :)

Boarding against Miracles: what all are you boarding in for that case? 3 Abrupt Decay and Lands? Are you bringing in Silence as well? Needles for SDT?

I'm going to a GPT this weekend to play Legacy for the first time in ages, and thinking of this board if I end up playing Tin Fins (with Tundra, Scrubland as white sources maindeck):

3 Abrupt Decay
2 Chain of Vapor
4 Silence
3 Dread of Night
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Pithing Needle? (singleton needle seems pretty terrible...)

Pretty much every Storm deck has been off Silence for a while and I've been cutting it in TinFins the last couple times I've played it. It seems like a wasted slot - there are better ways to disrupt counterspells (Xantid Swarm), and discard, Surgical, and Flusterstorm are better to fight other combo decks. I think last time my manabase was
4 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats
3 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Tundra
1 Swamp

And I'm imagining a sideboard more like:
2 Xantid Swarm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Dread of Night
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Tropical Island
2 Surgical Extraction

It's reasonable to cut the Tundra maindeck for the Tropical, but it might just be better to have an Island maindeck and still have a 15th land sideboard. The sideboard has a bunch of 2-ofs because I don't really know what's the best and what could be cut. Maybe it's just a mistake to not have Serenity?

[.dk]

Pretty much every Storm deck has been off Silence for a while and I've been cutting it in TinFins the last couple times I've played it. It seems like a wasted slot - there are better ways to disrupt counterspells (Xantid Swarm), and discard, Surgical, and Flusterstorm are better to fight other combo decks. I think last time my manabase was
4 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats
3 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Tundra
1 Swamp

And I'm imagining a sideboard more like:
2 Xantid Swarm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Dread of Night
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Tropical Island
2 Surgical Extraction

It's reasonable to cut the Tundra maindeck for the Tropical, but it might just be better to have an Island maindeck and still have a 15th land sideboard. The sideboard has a bunch of 2-ofs because I don't really know what's the best and what could be cut. Maybe it's just a mistake to not have Serenity?

Yes, they have - mine are for my local meta specifically. I don't like them against most counterspell type decks - but boy are they stellar against ANT and TES. Of which there are many people locally that play those. You think Flusterstorm is better against those? They are similar in that context, but slightly different. That's a good point though - if Silences turn into 3 Flusterstorms, then the Tropical can move maindeck, freeing up 2 sideboard slots for another Needle and a Surgical or something.

I think the maindeck is already just fine against most decks with counterspells - and against Miracles I think you're more worried about Counterbalance, SDT, and RIP anyway.

[phazonmutant]

Yes, they have - mine are for my local meta specifically. I don't like them against most counterspell type decks - but boy are they stellar against ANT and TES. Of which there are many people locally that play those. You think Flusterstorm is better against those? They are similar in that context, but slightly different. That's a good point though - if Silences turn into 3 Flusterstorms, then the Tropical can move maindeck, freeing up 2 sideboard slots for another Needle and a Surgical or something.

I think the maindeck is already just fine against most decks with counterspells - and against Miracles I think you're more worried about Counterbalance, SDT, and RIP anyway.

I've been crushing the Storm mirror with a package of 2 Flusterstorm, 2 Surgical Extraction in ANT. It's very hard to win through those plus the typical 6 discard spells. So in that sense, they're as good or better than Silence (Surgical can win on its own). The big win is that they swing the Show and Tell and Reanimator matchups from unfavorable to slightly favorable because they can be used to actively disrupt what they're doing.

[.dk]

Sure, fair enough. I'll give that a try - I'm a bit of a noob with a reactionary board these days anyway. I do like that not having silence makes the mana a little bit easier too. But a real good point about Reanimator and Show and Tell.


/edit

Also - Greg: If you're running 4 Decay, I don't think you need Serenity.

[warfordium]

i plan to fire this up this weekend as well—despite Top 4'ing our last GPT with Koby's Moon Stompy list i'm not sure thats where i wanna be post-banning. not sure i agree with Greg on the Swarms, especially as a 2-of.

edit: gotta propose an alternative—Flusterstorm is it!

[alaska]

Can someone walk me through the thought process of choosing Dread of Night over Massacre? Massacre hits any hatebear you could worry about, whereas Dread of Night is noticeably worse against X/2s.

Is it specifically for Gaddock Teeg? Can't we play around Teeg already by just going infinite or attacking with Gris and Emmy at the same time? We don't have the same issue as ANT or TES in that regard, needing to play tendrils or empty.

I guess you could have a Massacre get flusterstormed...that's just never happened to me, and I'm not sure in which matchup that would be a problem.

Dread of Night is better against mentor tokens, I'll give it that. Also better at slowing down DnT I guess.

Help me out here, wondering if I'm missing something...

[.dk]

Massacre is an excellent Burning Wish target. If I were running Burning Wish, I wouldn't leave home with out it.

Lets look at what they both do:

Massacre
Pros:
1. Potentially free (or very cheap if Thalia is in play) board wipe
2. Kills revoker, canonist, stoneforge mystic (and tidehollow sculler if that's ever a thing)

Cons:
1. They can actually just not play Plains. Karakas, colorless lands, eiganjo castle, flagstones, etc. are all just fine at making white mana without having a plains in play.
2. They can bounce Thalia in response, and Vial it back in in response to your next play.
3. Difficult to cast proactively sometimes, as they can just hold more lockpieces in hand to deploy after Massacre

Dread of Night
Pros:
1. Can be played proactively to stop them from taxing your cantrips
2. Thalia, Vryn Wingmare, Flickerwisp cannot ever hit the board with Dread of Night in play
3. No "tricks" to play around it with Vial and Karakas, colorless lands

Cons:
1. Can't kill Stoneforge, Revoker, or Cannonist
2. Never free

There's probably more, but this is off the top of my head.

So, the way I see it, many Death and Taxes lists are switching to more Vryn Wingmare and less Phyrexian Revoker. This, coupled with good utility vs. Mentor (again, keeping tokens permanently off the board vs. a 1 shot) I think makes Dread of Night better at the moment. We do have some other solutions to Canonist in the sideboard if you want to go that far (CoV is pretty damn good for that EOT) if that ends up being a problem.

That was my thought process anyway.

[alaska]

Well, sheepish, but I completely spaced on the "Karaks Thalia, vial into play" line - probably because it's never actually happened to me. But yes, Dread of Night is way better there.

Thanks for the breakdown.

Edit: as for point #1, if DnT chooses not to play any plains to get around Massacre, I'm okay with that tradeoff. They won't always have vial, and vial is relatively slow - t3 before they can vial anything relevant in, and that's best case scenario for DnT