[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I wouldn't play TA until I had at least 3 TNN in hand. I don't really fizzle any more, after a little math I have come to realize that if you have to attack with grizzly, you have essentially become a storm player. I at that point only have to hit (generally) about 4-5 storm to win.

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EDIT: Did some testing last night, Stax and Dragon Stompy are bad matchups. lol. I did win twice...Suppression Field should be a thing. It's frickin' stupid.

[ShivanGoat]

Even the best can be beaten:

[Richard Cheese]

Anyone else less than happy with LDV? Lately, I don't need it or it's just Mox-Fodder. Maybe I'm just not facing the decks where it's necessary, but it feels...weak. I dunno. I'm using Tendrils more than I first was, every time I attack with just Grizzly, I will win with Tendrils. I dunno if I'm actually going to, but I think I want a second Children of Korlis. Thoughts?

-ABC

It's come in handy a couple times for me, if I've got 2/3rds of the combo or postboard when I just need to find one of my answer cards for hate. Being instant is probably the best part, as it doesn't set you back a turn. Once I get my hands on some commander, I may try Strategic Planning in it's place, but my guess is that instant + digging super deep is going to trump cantrip + discard outlet.

[Tachikoma]

I have been thinking heavily about Stifle. It has application in the long game, allowing to stop tons of activations (Stifling RiP's CIP effect is decent), stopping the sacrifice of your reanimate target at end of turn if for some reason you can't complete the combo, stop their fetch if it's appropriate (you can know if it's appropriate by scoping their hand), stop a waste. I'm sure there is more. Discuss?

Anyone else less than happy with LDV? Lately, I don't need it or it's just Mox-Fodder. Maybe I'm just not facing the decks where it's necessary, but it feels...weak

Hi Bee,

I've been through those exact 2 questions after starting playing Tin fins (you can check my posts page 57 or so)

I've tried Stifle and it was useful and even powerful ... sometimes. With so few movable parts, the deck tends to beg for cards that are useful at least "most of the times".
Stifling Goryo/Shallow is 99% of the time unnecessary to win when you go off.
The question is exactly what Logan asked

As for Stifle, what do you cut for it?

You need to add 2 or 3 for it to be relevant.
I personally couldn't find a satisfying (and working) answer to it, so I gave up.

LDV is another beast.
I started with one and as expected it was just useless as a one of.
Following people strong recommendation I upped to 2 and felt exactly as you did ... yes but just "not that powerful", auto-side-out etc...
I figured out that the problem was not the power of the card which is obvious, but the fact that 2 is still too random to be a card you really rely on.
So I upped to 3 and I really felt the difference : now it's a card I can rely on drawing, and I verified the statistics by practice :)
I now tend to treat it as any combo piece, and found opening hands with Entomb+LDV or LDV+Goryo to be winning hands too, although being 1 or 2 turns away from usual combo start.
But the major improvement I saw is the second breath it can provide after being countered/discarded to hell, and the precious sideboard optimization it allows (now I never side them out except against fast combo matchups of course)

[Tachikoma]

About that Show and Tell list (damn you, you posted it just before the Bazar of Moxen main event, so I thought about I could incorporate Show and Tell in my list during the night instead of sleeping :)

I'm nervous about adding back more creatures

I might have turned into a LDV fanatic, but what about adding a LDV rather than adding back the Griselbrands ?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I think after all this testing I'm gonna drop my 4th Silence to the board and instead run one of my 3 S. Extractions in the main. More information, essentially a 5th Probe with an added benefit instead of a card draw. We will see.

-ABC

[Koby]

I might have turned into a LDV fanatic, but what about adding a LDV rather than adding back the Griselbrands ?

I find the suggestion to go to 3 LDV as more promising than the 3rd Griselbrand. I'll have to adjust my list for testing in the coming weeks and see what sticks. How do you suggest to SB in matches where LDV is typically cut? (I've shortcut to taking it out in matches where I don't need to find Serenity or Massacre)

I think after all this testing I'm gonna drop my 4th Silence to the board and instead run one of my 3 S. Extractions in the main. More information, essentially a 5th Probe with an added benefit instead of a card draw. We will see.

-ABC

I find this strategy to be lacking. While it does provide information, it's now becomes even more "do nothing" against decks where you really just need more disruption to counters. I would suggest Duress or the 3rd Thoughtseize in that slot.

[entreri_fans]

Hello, everyone! I am a new tin-fins player.

would someone plz enlighten me about purpose of hardcasting Emrakul?

I understand I could gain infinite mana, life, and storm count after I succeed in looping my library.

after that, if I hardcast Emrakul, then there seems to be a problem.

I will get an extra turn thx to his time-walk ability, but at that turn my library is already empty, so I will deck myself before getting a chance to attack?

maybe I could flashback therapy to kill Emrakul to shuffle something in my library, so I am not dead in my new turn. but if I could kill my opponent in the previous turn(because of the infinite resources now), why should we need an extra turn?

thx!

[Acclimation]

You set it up to have more cards in your library so you don't deck yourself.

When you take that second turn, you've likely already swung with Griselbrand, so you just need 1 swing with Emrakul to win.

That being said, if I'm looping my deck for infinite mana, I'll just kill them with Tendrils instead, but sometimes the situation requires the hard cast Emrakul to win.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Then would you run only 3x Silence total or what would you drop from the board to keep the 3rd Extraction, Koby?

-ABC

[Acclimation]

What does your sideboard look like?

I feel that 4 Silence is almost necessary in the 75, because when it's good, it's amazing (or the deadest card ever, which is why most of mine chill in the sideboard).

Surgical you can easily get away with 2, same with Chain, Massacre, Serenity, and Needle.

With 2 of each that I listed and 4 Silence, you have 14 cards, which could be a third of either Surgical, Chain, or Needle, or just be an empty slot for 61/14 shenanigans.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

At the moment without taking the silence out of the main deck it looks as follows:

3 S. Extraction
3 Pithing Needle
3 Chain of Vapor
3 Silence
3 Serenity

It's hugely generic feeling but so far it feels good overall. This is an attempt to make my main Deck better for my really fair meta.

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Edit: I forget if SCM has been tried. It gives options to discarded or countered entombs and other combo pieces along with a better ability to flashback therapy along with its target. I think it has good synergy and application here. Thoughts?

[Acclimation]

You could probably cut a Serenity. 2 has felt fine for me, and with LDV & our cantrips, finding one should be no problem.

That being said, I don't know how often you run into decks that require Serenity, so 3 could be very necessary.


In general, you could get away with cutting 1 of any sideboard slot besides Silence, due to how Chain overlaps with most of our hate, barring Surgical and Silence, and Surgical is less needed than Silence.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Needle has been least useful for me. What do you use it against? DRS and...? Can't come up with much else. May drop that to 2. Other option is Extraction. I edited above as well.

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[Acclimation]

Needle has been least useful for me. What do you use it against? DRS and...? Can't come up with much else. May drop that to 2. Other option is Extraction. I edited above as well.

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Needle hits DRS, Liliana, JTMS, Karakas, Sneak Attack, Isochron Scepter (some times you run into Scepter decks if you have a bad day and enter the "jungle"), Mangara, Scavenging Ooze, Nihil Spellbomb, Relic, Sensei's Divining Top, Tormod's Crypt, Maze of Ith, Knight of the Reliquary, Thespian's Stage, Wasteland, Rishadan Port, Aether Vial, and many more.

Out of all of those, the only one I haven't had to name are Scepter (never in the Jungle!) and Thespian's Stage (don't play against enough lands). The rest of these are potential threats that can wreck our day pretty easily, but for the low cost of 1 mana, we can turn them off and do the monster mash.


As for Snapcaster Mage, while I've always liked the idea of having it as a utility spell, I feel as though the mana requirements are too much. It's making our spells cost 3 cmc at a minimum, which can be difficult for our deck. It can also mess up our Shallow Graves (well timed removal, for example).

I feel as though the mana requirements are the biggest strike against SCM. It's an interesting suggestion that can give us a lot of options, but it requires a cut to be made, and what do we cut out of an already tight list?



Out of curiosity, what decks are you running into, what comprises this "fair" meta of yours? I want to better understand the situation to make better suggestions.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I play against stax, esperblade, elves, dredge, SnT, and JunkBlade. Stax, blade variants, elves mainly, though.

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[Acclimation]

I play against stax, esperblade, elves, dredge, SnT, and JunkBlade. Stax, blade variants, elves mainly, though.

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I retract my suggestion of cutting a Serenity.

If you feel that your Dredge match-up is as good with 2 Extractions instead of 3, then I think you can get away with that cut.

Needle seems like it can hit a lot of things in that meta, between equipment, to spell lands, to various hate bears and hate trinkets. Chain I could see getting a cut, since it does overlap with a lot of your counterhate.


So, i'd probably cut a Chain first, with a Needle a close second, and Surgical a somewhat distant third. I still hold that any non Silence sideboard slot is more than fine at 2 per card, with increasing one or two spells to having 3 copies as per meta requirements.

[entreri_fans]

You set it up to have more cards in your library so you don't deck yourself.

When you take that second turn, you've likely already swung with Griselbrand, so you just need 1 swing with Emrakul to win.

That being said, if I'm looping my deck for infinite mana, I'll just kill them with Tendrils instead, but sometimes the situation requires the hard cast Emrakul to win.

oh, thx for your reply, Creen! I see how it works.

I also see your post in salvation about sideboard guide, it's very helpful. thx very much!

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Ended up dropping a Chain of Vapor (down to 2) to get my sideboard set up. I am currently testing 2 Snapcaster Mage. I like it so far. It's wierd, haven't quite got a handle on how to play him exactly, at least in this deck, but he hasn't screwed me yet. I understand the small amount of anti-synergy with Shallow Grave, but as long as you keep it in mind, it doesn't seem to be a problem. I dropped a Ponder and...hum. I don't remember what else I dropped...Crap. Anyway, just a heads up. Just one thing, it helps tear their hand apart since you have a creature to sac to flash back the therapy with. Gives you more protected kills.

-ABC

[kingsey]

That was tough to watch on scg Dallas. The guys deck totally let him down.... I was pumped for a top 8!