You know that you dont ahve to discard for the first choice only for the second and third.Originally Posted by Kobra_D
True, and it could be better in the UB/Esper version that looks to solidify itself comfortably before going off, but I only see this being exceptionally good g1 as g2 & g3 hopefully my sideboard has the situational specific responses to my opponent.
And I am not still 100% sure on the matter, but I picked up a set to try when it first came out and I have yet to find a game where I wanted it over any other card I could have had in my 75.
The -2/-2 I have yet to use effectively. If Thalia hit I am in way more trouble, than CB can get me out of. Hitting deathrite would be good but I haven't had that situation arise yet.
Duress is always good but I usually want a thoughtseize, or cabal therapy after the first turn.
Drain 2 is actually super good here. If you go over before fetching you have the opportunity for an extra activation, which, even though it is hard to whif on 14 (21) cards it is impossible (read improbable) to flop on 21 (28).
Top 8'd a CK/ MBH LPS 1k. 60 something people? 6 rounds. I haven't played magic in a few months. short version below. I may go into more detail later in the week when I find the time to write it all out
R1: Drew with CB due to a tight loop that took a while to cast emrakul in game 1 and then a grindy game two.
R2: Won the mirror in 3 games.
R3: Beat aluren with turn 2s in 3 games
R4: Beat an eldrazi brew in 3 games. almost lost but opponent missed a point of damage.
R5: Beat elves via turn 1'ing in 2 games
R6: Played against grixis delver and lost in 3 games
QF: Lost to mono red painter in 3 games. I likely should have mulligan'd to more aggressive hands in games 2 and 3.
I played kind of sloppy at times but still got there. If I was less sloppy I likely would have won round 1. I played round 6 since being on the play is insane. props to my mirror opponent for buying me a beer.
Decklist and more details on demand.
Ok, I just lost two hour of writing because of a fucking bug. F*** it !
Basically, I wanted to write a report for the Eternal Weekend tournament in Paris and ask you guys some questions.
So I won't write it all over again, but to sum it up:
I went 5-4 against various matchs-up.
Classic UBw list, 15 lands (Island MD), no LDV, 2 Sensei's, 2 Reanimate and 1 Tendrill MD.
Sideboard was 4 Mentor and 3 SFM, 1 Jitte 1 Batterskull, 3 StP, 2 Serenity and 1 Flusterstorm in the sideboard. Felt like it really is the way to go. Note that when I transformed, I sometimes kept part of the combo in, while only taking Mentor or the SFM-package in (plus some StP/Flusterstorm/Serenity).
(I would like to make space for 1 Collective Brutality and / or a 2nd Flusterstorm (it was really great!) in my sideboard. Any suggestions?)
If you have any questions about this tournament, please feel free to ask and i'll do my best to respond to you. But right now I neither have the motivation nor the time to write it all again, sorry guys.
My question:
- I would like to test 1 Collective Brutality maindeck too, but I don't know what to remove. Maybe the 2nd Reanimate? But it feels a bit anti-synergic. Like others, I feel (but feeling unfortunately isn't testing) that C. Brutality maindeck appeals more Griselbrands - 3 maybe 4 - as well as the 2 Reanmiate. But then we'd probably have to remove ToA from the main (which I love very much). And still, one slot would still be missing. Maybe this strategy is only viable in a non-transformational sideboarding plan. Let me know what you think about this!
Sorry if this message seems a bit quick-written, but the lost of my inital post (which was rather long), demotivated me quite a bit. =(
I know the feeling. I now write most posts in Word then copy paste in because the forum reply window has done this to me too.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Deck list:
MAIN
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Griselbrand
1 Children of Korlis
4 Entomb
3 Goryo's Vengeance
2 Reanimate
4 Shallow Grave
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Gitaxian Probe
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Island
2 Marsh Flats
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
SB:
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Dark Confidant
2 Flusterstorm
4 Monastery Mentor
2 Serenity
3 Swords to Plowshares
I am unsure on the serenity and the flusterstorm. I think I really want 4 swords. That card is seriously mvp material. The serenity and flusterstorm slots were the SB cards I felt weakest about. More detailed round report later maybe.
@darkgobs
For 1 Collective Brutality maindeck, I would just try replacing a Thoughtseize with it. And since there is only 1, I don't see a pressing need to increase the number of Grisebrands in the deck. If you get to discard him to it, it's a bonus. It's not the main plan anyway. If you want to run 2-3, I think you should consider running at least 3 Griselbrands in that case. However, I dislike not being able to win off of Dark Ritual alone with Collective Brutality. The fact that it is slower protection and doesn't support our T1 gameplan much leads me to believe that 2 is the most you would ever want - likely 1 maindeck, and possibly 1 in the board. Seems that it is more of a hedge against Deathrite Shaman decks than something like Death and Taxes - Thalia, Port, and Wasteland are already going to ruin your mana - having a more expensive protection piece doesn't help much against them in my mind. But again, this is all theoretical as I haven't sleeved this deck up in quite a while.
@ThomasDowd
Nice work on T8! Extra protection with Thoughtseizes were worth it in that meta vs. cantripping of Probe? Flusterstorm has never performed very well for me in the sideboard of this deck... but I know phazonmutant has had very different experiences than that. Maybe if you're running the full 8 discard spells Flusterstorm isn't as necessary? Depends on your sideboarding strategy with that card, I suppose. Serenity, however, has been an all star for me. But, maybe I see more Chalices around than you do. 4th swords makes a lot of sense. Could just say fuck it to flusterstorm and run the 4th bob and swords. :)
Find me on Twitter: @beanaman
I dislike probe in general. I pay 2 life to get to the next card in my deck and be disappointed when I see resistance I may or may not be able to beat via the stack (often unlikely). I'd rather spend the mana and 2 life, get the thing I can't beat and then kill them that turn (4 mana) or beat them the next turn. Pushing to 4 mana on turn 1 isn't that hard. The deck is redundant enough in general. I think the raw percentages gained on being a ~56 card deck are lower than clearing the path.
I just think serenity comes in when you can board in the man plan as well and be just as well off, versus chalice + leyline. Flusterstorm makes sense against delver in some ways so don't want to be without it. That may be a matchup where the man plan is better anyway, but I am just punting. The 4th bob and swords may be the right answer.
I do understand this. However, I often was able to combo turn 1 without disruption. In some of those cases (aka playing against blue decks), I was always very happy to see if they had a counterspell or not (usually FoW or Daze) instead of going blind and just hope they don't have any counter. And in my experience, 4 mana + the combo + disruption on the first turn is a quite rare thing! (and also, Cabal is really stronger with Probe, and is a really good turn 1 ). But it is true that the 2 life cost can be problematic against aggressives decks.
And what about the games when you keep a part of the combo in as well as some mentors? But maybe in a version with bob (instead of SFM), you always choose to transform fully or you don't transform at all? Because SFM + Serenity is a bit stupid. However, I was happy with Mentor + Serenity, especially when I was playing the version with 3 Bobs.
Speaking of which: in which match-ups are you happier to have a Bob than a SFM, beside combo, against which I usually don't feel that transforming is a good choice (except partially against maybe infect, if you play SFM + Jitte AND keep a part of the combo). I feel like against Delver.decks, I would rather have SFM than a Bob: Bob alone won't win you the game against a Delver.deck. Batterskull or Jitte, however, can do that (if I cannot find Mentor soon enough in the game).
@ .dk:
Thank you for your answer, it makes a lot of sense. Maybe Collective Brutality in one-off is better with LDV. Problem is that I don't like LDV with the Mentor sideboard. But maybe i'll try to swap my Sensei's for 1 or 2 LDV again.
One of the things I like the most about SFM is the ability to leave part of your reanimation plan in. That's next to impossible to do with Bob's. Although, I suppose people used to run Tombstalker with Bob like 5 years ago, so I guess you could run the gambit. :) I've personally had more success with Bob than SFM in the board, but I'm not sure it's better. It's certainly more aggressive.
I'm not sure that you need LDV to support Collective Brutality - I mean, you're generally only running 1 or 2 thoughtseize anyway. Having 1 maindeck is just a hedge, and you could board 1 or 2 more in for the right matchup, if they seem good. I mean again, I don't have any playtesting data (although I got my Lotus Petals back after a couple months last night, so maybe soon!), so who knows? I just don't like sacrificing speed much, particularly game 1. It's the best thing the deck has going for it in game 1, IMO.
Find me on Twitter: @beanaman
Nice results, Darkgobs and ThomasDowd! Good to see the Mentor plan + Swords do well!
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
Went 3-1 at my locals tonight to make a couple of bucks. I do not play the typical list, but a RB budget version.
Rnd1: Bye, not exciting but a win is a win I guess.
Rnd2: Enchantress. Win in 2 games with T1 tendrils and T5 Iona beats. Dodged rest in peace out of the sideboard g2 but lost T1 Griselbrands to surgical. T2 I got Iona out and 7/7 flying, your opponent can't play white spells, is sometimes enough. I wasn't sure if I should name green but I figured their removal was white based and hoped they couldn't do anything silly in 3 turns otherwise.
Rnd3: ANT. Lost 0-2. I thought I should be favored in this match up but mulliganed both games to 5 cards meh hands. I might have wanted to go to 4, but going to 4 hurts the core of my being. Pretty straightforward of rounds. Both of our disruptions were hand control, and both of our sideboard cards were grave hate.
Rnd4: Grixis Pyromancer. 2-0. I should not win this MU but sometimes you get lucky. Op didn't no what I was playing and kept a strong hand without force. T1 Griselbrand, punishes those hands, attacked for 22 with Emrakul. G2 my opening hand had 3 exhumes, 1 entomb and a pithing needle which is better than 2 force of wills and a deathrite shaman. Took 2 turns to fight through all the disruption but finally, got griselbrand in play and was able to tendrils a win.
I got lucky tonight, no doubt about it, although I was unlucky against ANT. I have a couple of questions for the more experienced players.
1) What color would you name against enchantress?
2) How do you usually sideboard against ANT? I don't have a whole lot to answer with but I do have 2 surgical's, a stronghold gambit, and Iona. Do you keep anything else for this match up? I guess flusterstorm is the blue answer.
3) Normally, I lose to pyromancer, unless I am a little luckier that day over my opponent. Elesh Norn is my first answer. Pithing needles for DRS is my other. Is there a lot of other tech for this particular match up? I see it being played more and more and I could use the help.
Have fun spreading the good word of our lord Griselbrand.
Quiet morning at the house and I’m bored so we’re writing about last night’s Legacy FNM!
Have a ton of my TES stuff out getting signed and jammed Dredge a couple weeks ago at FNM so decided to remind people of our lord and savior. Ran out the list that phazonmutant had posted some pages back (link for those who don't want to search); changing it up from when I usually play this and just enjoy Doomsdaying people.
Only thing I'm not sure I'm sold on (and this is likely the stubborn storm player in me) is not going -1 Reanimate +1 ToA. Considered the switch before the event but just ran it as is with one of the Reanimates being a reprint copy to see if it came up. There weren't any games that I actually lost due to not having ToA but found myself having to kill over a few turns due to crappy draw 7s and/or lack of Tendrils. Meh.
R1 – Miracles: Not stoked about this one. Opponent knows I always play some degenerate combo and I know he's on miracles [RIP and sometimes energy field main] or sometimes a BUGstill deck.
G1: OTD Kept a slightly slower opener that could Thoughtseize, follow-up with therapy if needed to keep him off balance, which seemed fine knowing what he usually plays. A bit of back and forth but I end up Emrakuling him a handful of turns in.
G2: Go over to the man plan [-1 Gris, -1 CoK, -1 EMrakul, -3 Goryo, -1 Shallow, -1 Entomb, -2 Therapy, -2 DRit, +3 SFM, +1 Jitte, +1 BSkull, +4 Mentor, +1 Fluster, +2 Serenity] which turns out great when I probe his opener is a slew of gy hate and I can open T1 SFM. Unfortunately, I can’t drop him fast enough and he stabilizes a BSkull hit from dead; grinding his way back (draws lined up perfect against a resolved Mentor that could have closed if I got to smack him once) and I end up conceding to a JtMS about to ultimate. At one point, Serenity gets RiP and a white Leyline while he’s empty handed (he does have a top in play) but I can’t grab a reanimation piece in time to capitalize on the opening.
G3: We’ve only 8min or so left in the round so I go back reanimation; which could be wrong. I figure I’m not likely to close the game in the window on the man plan unless it’s a great mentor draw against poop soup but this line is also sort of expected. I keep in Serenity and Flusterstorm (believe I dropped out tops and a Ponder). My opener is going to be a little slow unless I draw either an Entomb or fatty to strip from my own hand. His hand is just slightly better with Canonist hitting play and I’m unable to find Serenity plus back-up to go off in time but he can’t close it either.
Matches: 0-0-1 Games: 1-1-1
R2 – Dredge: I full well know my opponent is playing dredge and he knows what I was playing. Apparently he didn’t even get to dredge his prior match; elves opponent opened on DRS, he looted and then opponent had Quirion Ranger for all the DRS activations.
G1: OTP with a hand that just brings Grizz out T2 assuming no nutty turn one dredging and therapies [Petal, Entomb, Shallow, Goryo, BS, Ponder, Marsh Flats]. I play the land and petal, he studies some dredgers to the yard, EoT entomb and then a quick 22-spot and we’re on to the next game.
G2: Not much boarding but decide to bring in a few cards that won’t horribly slow me down but slightly more relevant. [-2 SDT, -1 Ponder, -1 Therapy, +3 StP, +1 Flusterstorm]. Taking a mull gives us 2x Entomb, TS, Marsh Flats, Tundra, Shallow scrying another land to the bottom. Opponent studies putting an Ichorid and bridge in the yard (looking good). I draw a probe (another land…thanks deck) seeing some Nature’s Claims and Narcos (ouch) play flats and pass back. He Therapies naming Goryo…and passes commenting on how embarrassing his Claims are looking against my hand. Rinse and repeat of last game’s ending. We joke (maybe me more than he) about how he didn’t get to dredge in either of his first two rounds and discuss merits of different dredge boards and boarding plans.
Matches: 1-0-1 Games: 3-1-1
R3 – Elves: this is our elves player who Deathrited last round’s opponent out of the game. Not sure if he’s aware what I’m playing but let’s plan on it just not mattering
G1: OTD, didn’t write my opener down but life totals suggest I probed, fetched once or twice and then TS’d myself to spaghetti his board. I recall him having exactly 8 permanents and he was able to bounce a DRS and a Bayou before plopping the rest in the yard. My leftovers were a BS, ponder and DRit which perfectly draw me into a DRit, Entomb, Goryo Mr. Axe-Hands for the game. Better lucky than good.
G2: Chatting with our dredge buddy before gave me a little scouting on what this gent has in the board. Two supposed black leylines are the big whammy and I assume a spattering of other pieces like ScOoze, Needles, etc. will join. Seems like a good time to do a little transforming! [-2 Ponder, -1 Therapy, -1 Shallow, -2 Goryo, -1 Entomb, -1 Reanimate, -1 Gris, -1 DRit, +2 StP, +3 Mentor, +2 SFM, +1 Serenity, +1 Flusterstorm, +1 Jitte]. Opener of the game – him: Bayou, DRS. Me: Land, Petal, SFM for Jitte. Him: “well then…”. I do have a few reanimation combo pieces and my opponent is on a single land. Probe shows he’s sitting on a little clunker (visionary, Hoof, Symbiotes) so the fear of Jitte is able to get some work in there. At one point his board is Visionary, Ranger, Symbiote, DRS and his tapped Bayou. I do a quick check to make sure I didn’t miss something and Goryo in an Emrakul to wipe his board again. From there SFM with a Jitte makes quick work of his attempts to rebuild.
Matches: 2-0-1 Games: 5-1-1
R4 – JunkBlade: this guy is usually on either a NicFit build or junk list of some type. With the pairings there’s no fear of either of us shifting out of first and second place so we decide to just split as he needs to leave somewhat soon and I’m not going to fuss over a difference of 5 bucks in winnings (splitting vs. first) and some packs of standard garbo.
We decided to play a game real quick while waiting for payouts and this is the one time where not having ToA bit me in the ass. I didn’t think to take notes since this wasn’t a match for anything but I think I remember the gist of things. I was otp with a quick T2 Grizz against his opening of Bayou into DRS. I can draw 7 a few times but they’re totally shit; no second entomb to assemble the dynamic duo or ability to loop draws with Children. This is being results-oriented but the reprint-Reanimate in the draws would have been a kill as a tendrils.
Rundown of the meta for the night (no specific order):
JunkBlade
TinFins
BR Reanimator
Elves
Dredge
Miracles
Turbo Lands
Infect
UWR Control
Grixis Painter
UR Delver
2x Grixis Delver
Overall, have to say I love the work that’s been put into making this man plan board a thing (props to those that have put in the work, I tend to be really quiet…totally silent around here). Plays well with the main build already (what I always liked about Doomsday) and even though it didn’t pan out against the Miracles player; I felt like I had so much more rebound sitting in the deck where I could have sniped the win. It was a total beating against Elves as I’m convinced I basically Jedi mind-tricked him into diluting his deck game two with a bunch of barely impactful cards. Even had I not spaghetti’d him I felt confident that game was locked up the minute I was getting Jitte from the deck (not like I’m fearing him having a Decay for it; MAYBE a RecSage if he’s lucky).
This was very funny, and even more with the 'd !
Thanks for your report. I actually played the (almost, see bellow) exact same list as you just did. But I forgot to give credits to phazonmutant. Shame on me, cuz I really liked it.
Also, even if I am not a storm / degenerated combo player (occasionally making a 20/20 fly turn 3-4 doesn't count for "degenerated", right ? ... ahhh, legacy truly is amazing!), I also regretted the absence of ToA maindeck. But I also wanted to have 2 Reanimate in the 60, so I ran both spells (can't remember what I took away). I ended up beeing happier having ToA maindeck than the 2nd Reanimate. But this small 9-rounds input needs more testing for sure.
In some matches, I sometimes keep ToA in the 60 when I semi-transform, because I wanted to caught people off-guard. Do you guys think it is worth it, or just stupidly greedy (it is a bit greedy for sure, but it maid me won a game in a tounrament last year with a similar list, against Miracle)?
This was very funny, and even more with the 'd !
.... also regretted the absence of ToA maindeck. But I also wanted to have 2 Reanimate in the 60, so I ran both spells (can't remember what I took away). I ended up beeing happier having ToA maindeck than the 2nd Reanimate. But this small 9-rounds input needs more testing for sure.
In some matches, I sometimes keep ToA in the 60 when I semi-transform, because I wanted to caught people off-guard. Do you guys think it is worth it, or just stupidly greedy ...?
Glad you enjoyed the report; morning coffee and short tourney reports!
Yes, would definitely need to test more but my first thought when I was considering just jamming the ToA in alongside the 2 Reanimate was to maybe drop a Ponder. It felt (with a whole 2min thinking about it) the card I'd miss the least and that would have the least impact to the board plan (e.g. It will take a lot to get me away from Probe+Therapy as a combo player not to mention those two cards (and the 2x SDT) are great with Mentors.).
Not having tested it yet, of course, but I feel it would be reasonable to keep the ToA in after transforming. Merely because in "theory" (AKA the few scenarios I'm thinking in my head) it can pretty easily close out the last few life points to support a Mentor or SFM beatdown and since we tend to leave in a Grislebrand with a partial transform it's keeping another finisher there as well. It's not at the level of a Vintage Mentor Tendrils but I imagine could slip by somewhat easily as an opponent is likely shifting focus to containing our creature strategy letting a few storm triggers get 'em.
Ran 4-0 at FNM tonight playing a more standard reactive sideboard. I've been testing the SFM+Mentor side, and I like it quite a bit, but decided to flip back to reactive tonight just to keep the meta honest (only 8-10 people playing at any given time).
Sideboard:
2 Serenity
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle
2 Dread of Night
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Swords to Plowshares
I'm also running Tendrils, 2 Collected Brutality, 2 LDV, 0 Chrome Mox, 15 lands with 2 basics.
I'm liking 2 CoBru so far, being able to snag a DRS or Thalia game 1 has been doing great work for me so far.
Tonight I played against:
2-1 Sneak and Show w/ mb Blood Moon (-4 Probe -1 Ponder, +2 Serenity +2 Needle +1 Surgical)
2-1 Nic Fit (-4 Probe +2 Chain +2 Needle)
2-0 Infect (-4 Probe -1 Ponder, +3 Swords +2 Chain)
2-0 Aluren (-4 Probe -1 Ponder -3 Swords -2 Chain)
SB is a bit removal heavy, but Swords was heavily relevant vs Infect, and would have been great vs Aluren if it weren't for me having perfect draw 7s.
For now, I think I'll keep the CoBru in the main, but I think at a large tournament I would probably drop it for Thoughtseize. Reactive board is still great, and is definitely my recommendation for those starting out with the deck. That being said, I would probably register Mentor+SFM for a large tournament.
Tinfins & Bizarro Stormy & Belcher & DDFT
@acclimation6 on twitter
Back to back t1 kills at SCG STL 2013:
https://youtu.be/kk3crCPsNLg
GG for your 4-0!
Now, i was wondering if you were always taking 4 probes out to take your sideboard cards in, or if this is only against certain match-ups, like those four you just played against? Don't you want - especially against combos - be able to see their hand to go for probe + cabal? Because if you don't really care, why even keep the probe maindeck, and not replace them with other cards, like 2 thoughtseize or anything else, like brutality or something?
In my opinion, Probe is a game 1 card, and usually my flex slot when I'm sideboarding.
I've been playing the deck so long that I have pretty good instincts when it comes to Therapy, so I'm usually just less dependent on Probe.
For some decks, life total is important to preserve, so I shave some number of Probe and LDV to keep healthy (and thoughtseize when I'm running it mainboard).
I like keeping Probe maindeck, because it's fantastic game 1 to gain info. Once I know what my opponent is up to, it's usually better to side them out for more specific cards.
I wrote a post about playing with a reactive sb over 2 years ago (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post778798), and Probe comes out against most decks, except for ANT/TES and other fast combo decks where speed is paramount. Against control decks, aggro decks, and slower combo decks, Probe isn't going to be as good as the cards you can bring in.
Probe is also good in either one of the two transformational sideboards that we advocate, Mentor/SFM & Doomsday. It's too flexible of a card to cut in the main 60, but it's easily the first to go in games 2 and 3.
Tinfins & Bizarro Stormy & Belcher & DDFT
@acclimation6 on twitter
Back to back t1 kills at SCG STL 2013:
https://youtu.be/kk3crCPsNLg
@ Acclimation:
That makes a lot of sense, thank you. I just hope my instinct won't be too bad when I'll cabal them! =D
@Darkgobs
Practice makes perfect. Any time you Probe someone, mentally name something as if you were casting a blind Therapy instead. Eventually, you'll be able to make good guesses about what they could have.
My friends and I also made a drinking game around Therapy as well, you pick a deck, draw 7, have everyone take turns naming a card. If they miss, they take a shot, if they hit, dealer takes a shot for each card hit.
Tinfins & Bizarro Stormy & Belcher & DDFT
@acclimation6 on twitter
Back to back t1 kills at SCG STL 2013:
https://youtu.be/kk3crCPsNLg
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote