[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[.dk]

Double post... but couldn't help to say thanks for the shoutout after watching the deck tech!

[Richard Cheese]

Just watched, realized I got a shout out too. Gonna have to get a Tundra now so I can start playing Children.

Edit: My only complaint is that you forgot to flip the table and yell "TinFins, BITCH!" at the end...or the beginning, just whenever.

[phazonmutant]

Of course, you guys had the deck idea to begin with!

I wrote a tournament report - http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...a-with-TinFins

[.dk]

Love the decklist - have you tested with only 1 reanimate to cut down to 60? Or cutting the 4th Griselbrand and only running 3? Since the sideboard is (still) not right, there's probably room for the 4th Griselbrand there if you're boarding into Show and Tell.

And I do agree with you that SnT is awful sometimes - but it's a pretty huge trump to Chalice. More thoughts later, likely.

[thefringthing]

Somebody bursted his onion on me in the MTGO Legacy DE last night. Was no match for an army of Goblin tokens and a Karakas, though.

[phazonmutant]

Love the decklist - have you tested with only 1 reanimate to cut down to 60? Or cutting the 4th Griselbrand and only running 3? Since the sideboard is (still) not right, there's probably room for the 4th Griselbrand there if you're boarding into Show and Tell.

And I do agree with you that SnT is awful sometimes - but it's a pretty huge trump to Chalice. More thoughts later, likely.

All those things make sense. I think I'd prefer to sideboard a Griselbrand of the options. Reanimate was pretty impressive all day. It's never exactly what you want to see, but sometimes you just get to turn 1 them when you couldn't before.

Somebody bursted his onion on me in the MTGO Legacy DE last night. Was no match for an army of Goblin tokens and a Karakas, though.

Well, I'm glad people are picking it up. There've been a couple of people with very different lists, do you know if it was my list or the ones with Daze and Lilianas in the board?

[Koby]

Damn you guys. I went and bought Entombs today.

[.dk]

Damn you guys. I went and bought Entombs today.

Welcome to the fold. :)

[walker]

@ phazon- you think about cutting a fetch for a second swamp? I hate getting wasted out. Maybe worth considering since you are trying to show and tell after sb. Obviously my list is pretty different but I only have black fetches with 2 swamps and 1 island, which works well for me. I put this deck down for a while because I wasn't getting good results with my LED version and I don't feel confident with only 4 entombs to bin Gman. But thats niether here nor there, good job at atlanta!

@ koby- if you are building this deck hit me up I have some experience here, btw this is ethan.

[phazonmutant]

@ phazon- you think about cutting a fetch for a second swamp? I hate getting wasted out. Maybe worth considering since you are trying to show and tell after sb. Obviously my list is pretty different but I only have black fetches with 2 swamps and 1 island, which works well for me. I put this deck down for a while because I wasn't getting good results with my LED version and I don't feel confident with only 4 entombs to bin Gman. But thats niether here nor there, good job at atlanta!

@ koby- if you are building this deck hit me up I have some experience here, btw this is ethan.

Thanks!

Usually combo decks like Reanimator and Storm want the max number of fetches to make Brainstorm and Ponder better, but I could see going down to 8 fetches. I definitely think it would be the fourth Underground Sea or the first Tundra/Scrubland if I were to add a land though. Even in ANT I don't like having 2 basic Swamps - that's what Dark Rit is for!
I like maxing on U fetches because I'm either fetching a basic Island and cantripping, or I'm fetching Underground Sea and killing them. The basic Swamp helps out in those discard into entomb draws, but I think those draws are rarer and it's miserable to be drawing off the top and only have a B source so you can't cast cantrips.
I wasn't relevantly Wasteland in the tournament except by Lands. Even the feature match against BUG, he had 0 pressure, so the Wasteland just didn't matter, I just needed to draw any B source.

Intuition is pretty key as the 5th Entomb. It's a lot better than it looks.

[.dk]

Just watched the SCG coverage (went up in the archives this morning). Fun set of games - Shardless BUG is definitely one of the matchups you want to see with this deck.

And thanks for showboating Game 2 when you didn't have to (you could have entombed for Emrakul instead of Children, right?) to show off the raw power of the deck! Awesome!

[Holden1669]

This deck is incredibly awesome. I love it. I was trying to come up with something kinda like Griselbrand Reanimator but I didn't really like how that was playing when I saw the deck tech with @phazonmuant. Didn't know this thread existed, so glad I found it.

In the last couple of days I have been destroying people in the tournament practice room. I get turn 1 or 2 wins more often than not. The caveat is that I have played against just one deck that has Force of Will in it so far. So that's a pretty big asterisk. There have been a lot of combo mirrors against Storm or Belcher. When I get the chance I'll step up to two-man queues and daily events and see how things go.

Just now I was playing against TES. Game 1 I lost the die roll and he went turn 1 Brainstorm, Gitaxian Probe, pass. Then I played Fetch for Sea, Ritual, Ritual, Cabal Therapy (he had Silence, Dark Ritual, Burning Wish. Decently scary depending on what he left on top) Entomb, Shallow Grave, draw my deck. He conceded. Game 2 he went Ponder, Probe, pass. I played Sea, Petal, Entomb, Reanimate with a Children in hand. Drew 7 cards including a Mox Diamond. Then drew my deck. He conceded. Amazing.

I started with @phazonmuant's list and cut a Griselbrand, Chrome Mox, and Intuition (because I don't have any online) for a Sensei's Divining Top and Mox Diamond (since casting Children is so key). My sideboard is pretty terrible:

4 Show and Tell
3 Force of Will
2 Echoing Truth
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Coffin Purge
3 Pithing Needle

Cutting a Griselbrand makes the Show and Tell plan seem pretty bad and there probably aren't enough blue cards for Force. It's a work in progress.

I would love to get Gitaxian Probes in the deck but I'm not sure what I would cut for them. I have read a lot of talk about Daze in the thread but so far in my limited time playing the deck the discard feels really good and I have pointed it at myself quite a few times. One of the issues I had with my previous attempts at building Storm Reanimator is Careful Study was usually terrible but I never cut all of them for some reason. And I felt that I needed maindeck Force for disruption but the 7 discard spells here help replace both. I'm rambling because I'm excited so I'll stop now.

Great deck. Thanks for building it. I haven't had this much fun playing Magic in a long time.

[phazonmutant]

This deck is incredibly awesome. I love it. I was trying to come up with something kinda like Griselbrand Reanimator but I didn't really like how that was playing when I saw the deck tech with @phazonmuant. Didn't know this thread existed, so glad I found it.
...
Great deck. Thanks for building it. I haven't had this much fun playing Magic in a long time.

Glad you're having fun with it! Yeah, the sideboard is pretty haphazard. I really don't like Forces though, after playing with them for a couple small tournaments. They're just not consistently live when you need them to be, similar to Daze. Intuition is really good, but you could just move Lim-Dul's Vault to the main if you need to find ins.


Also, we got an article mention! http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...-beating-jund/

[thra1l]

Yea, I'm pretty sure this is like the Legacy equivalent of crack cocaine. Lol. I have pretty much everything for the deck except for the Entombs which I traded for Tuesday, and ordered the rest of the little pieces I didn't have. I've been playing it quite a bit on Cockatrice and it's insane. I've had so many people just disconnect after I draw ~21 cards turn one.
Looking forward to testing more, especially the sideboard. I'll post any good ideas I have (though I doubt they'd be better than the veterans of this deck ).

[.dk]

I started with @phazonmuant's list and cut a Griselbrand, Chrome Mox, and Intuition (because I don't have any online) for a Sensei's Divining Top and Mox Diamond (since casting Children is so key). My sideboard is pretty terrible:

4 Show and Tell
3 Force of Will
2 Echoing Truth
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Coffin Purge
3 Pithing Needle

Cutting a Griselbrand makes the Show and Tell plan seem pretty bad and there probably aren't enough blue cards for Force. It's a work in progress.

I would love to get Gitaxian Probes in the deck but I'm not sure what I would cut for them. I have read a lot of talk about Daze in the thread but so far in my limited time playing the deck the discard feels really good and I have pointed it at myself quite a few times. One of the issues I had with my previous attempts at building Storm Reanimator is Careful Study was usually terrible but I never cut all of them for some reason. And I felt that I needed maindeck Force for disruption but the 7 discard spells here help replace both. I'm rambling because I'm excited so I'll stop now.

Great deck. Thanks for building it. I haven't had this much fun playing Magic in a long time.

I was originally thinking the same thing for casting Children with Mox Diamond as you did for GP Denver - but at this point I don't think it is necessary. Reanimating Children is just fine via Reanimate or Shallow Grave - the more I've been testing in that configuration the more I like it. Props to phazonmuant for the addition of reanimate!

Although, having 1 Mox Diamond and 1 Chrome Mox may still be ok. I don't think you should cut all of the Chome Moxes though - sometimes you need another IMS to do... well anything. Even post drawing 7 or 14. And I would highly recommend finding a copy of Intuition somewhere - it acts as an insane Entomb at times, and can tutor for other stuff too.

Also, agreed that running 3 Griselbrand is pretty bad for SnT. I'm running the 4th in the board. Currently, if I were to play an event with this deck, it would look like this:

4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
3 Goryo's Vengeance
3 Griselbrand
2 Children of Korlis
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Tundra
1 Intuition
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize
2 Reanimate

Sideboard:

1 Chain of Vapor
2 Echoing Truth
3 Pithing Needle
4 Show and Tell
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Griselbrand
2 Surgical Extraction


I hate every sideboard I come up with for this deck. I've had the best success with pure transformational sideboard in the past (GP Atlanta), but I honestly can't figure out one that I actually like. It's possible that small transformations and some anti-hate like phazonmuant ran (and mine above) is fine - but it feels so... mediocre, I guess. I always feel SO defensive when playing this deck Game 2 and 3.

I still haven't tested the E-tutor/RIP/Helm board yet - that may have some legs to it. Or Painter possibly, although that seems weak to other Emrakul decks.

[Dela]

Possible Maindeck:
4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
3 Goryo's Vengeance
2 Griselbrand
2 Children of Korlis
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
3 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Tundra
1 Intuition
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize
2 Reanimate

Sideboard:

3 Planar Void
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Helm of obedience
2 Transmute Artifact
2 Enlightened Tutor


Possible Transformation:

4 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Planar Void
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Children of Korlis
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
3 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Intuition
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize
1 Reanimate
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Transmute Artifact
Sideboard:

3 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Shallow Grave
4 Helm of Obedience
2 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Reanimate


I might try this config tonight at my local legacy tourney

[alphastryk]

3 Planar Void

This card does not do what you want it to do - it is a trigger, not a replacement effect, and does not combo with Helm.

[Koby]

Planar Void will not work favorably with Helm of Obedience, since Planar Void is triggered ability. Rest in Peace would work however.

I was watching phazonmaut's recorded game and one of the commentators suggested that a Doomsday SB plan with Shelldock or other kill method would be useful against the expected GY hate. That doesn't sound altogether bad, but requires a delicate Main/SB swap plan since each slot will need to be calibrated.

I'm curious (for I have not checkde back a few pages in a while) as to whether Burning Wish has been considered as a quasi-tutor and a potential Doomsday compliment in this case.

[Dela]

Planar Void will not work favorably with Helm of Obedience, since Planar Void is triggered ability. Rest in Peace would work however.

I was watching phazonmaut's recorded game and one of the commentators suggested that a Doomsday SB plan with Shelldock or other kill method would be useful against the expected GY hate. That doesn't sound altogether bad, but requires a delicate Main/SB swap plan since each slot will need to be calibrated.

I'm curious (for I have not checkde back a few pages in a while) as to whether Burning Wish has been considered as a quasi-tutor and a potential Doomsday compliment in this case.

Ahh thanks. Perhaps I will try Rest in Peace or scrap the idea all together.

[phazonmutant]

Planar Void will not work favorably with Helm of Obedience, since Planar Void is triggered ability. Rest in Peace would work however.

I was watching phazonmaut's recorded game and one of the commentators suggested that a Doomsday SB plan with Shelldock or other kill method would be useful against the expected GY hate. That doesn't sound altogether bad, but requires a delicate Main/SB swap plan since each slot will need to be calibrated.

I'm curious (for I have not checkde back a few pages in a while) as to whether Burning Wish has been considered as a quasi-tutor and a potential Doomsday compliment in this case.

A while ago we were talking about Burning Wish as a tutor for Tendrils and some bullets like Show and Tell, Massacre, etc, but that was before the Children of Korlis tech. Burning Wish took a lot of room, didn't consistently win because there's so few rituals in the deck, and hurt the manabase.

I'm not opposed to Doomsday, but I'm skeptical that it actually dodges the stuff we're concerned about. To run a reasonable DDFT transform, we want at least 15 lands, 4 Tops, 4 Probe, 4 Doomsday, 1 Ideas Unbound, and 4 LEDs somewhere in the 75. On top of that, you have to have bounce or removal for things like Canonist and Counterbalance. That's probably not workable.

I think a more realistic transform is 4 DD and 1 Shelldock Isle, but there's the question of does it solve the actual problem cards? It gets around storm hate like Chalice (and to some extent 3-ball), but Wasteland and Stifle were slight problems before and it doesn't solve some creature hate like Karakas. It's definitely workable, but it seems so all-in. Cloud of Faeries might help to go off the turn you Doomsday, but again not excited. If someone can figure out a build that includes Gitaxian Probe, that would help in the transform. The nice thing about it is that it's a very compact 1-card combo, so you could still have some reanimation in the deck.

I'll try it out on cockatrice some over the next couple days and report back.