[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[.dk]

Ok, I haven't actually tested this yet, but here is my starting point. Might get some time to at least goldfish for a bit here pretty soon.


4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Children of Korlis
1 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
2 Flooded Strand
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Goryo's Vengeance
2 Griselbrand
1 Island
4 Lotus Petal
3 Marsh Flats
4 Mystical Tutor
2 Pact of Negation
4 Polluted Delta
1 Reanimate
1 Scrubland
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Shallow Grave
1 Show and Tell
1 Stifle
1 Swamp
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Underground Sea

Sideboard:
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Doomsday
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ideas Unbound
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Massacre
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Shelldock Isle

[Moomba]

Mystical Tutor is super banned

[Richard Cheese]

Build me a theoretical build with Mystical Tutor, and tell me your results, .dk. I'm very interested :P

-Matt

[Moomba]

Fair enough, that's what I get for only seeing the new page

[.dk]

Oh whoops, Shelldock should be Lab Maniac in the board. I forgot I cut Emrakul from the maindeck with Mystical since you really don't ever need to loop. Or possibly an Emrakul in the board instead of the 3rd LED in case you feel like you want to board it in on the Tin Fins plan to go infinite or hardcast Emrakul. But finding Tendrils or Children after drawing with Griselbrand is trivial with this list. You should have 3-4 Entombs left, as well as 4 Mystical Tutors.

[alaska]

3-0-1'd (ID on the last round) a local weekly running 4x Serum Powder, 2x Pull from Eternity, also had 4x Gemstone Caverns in the board.

I didn't draw enough of the spice to get a good feel for it, so I will test some more. I will say, gemstone caverns into turn zero entomb on their upkeep is pretty satisfying, playing around daze, spell pierce, flusterstorm.

I played against maverick/hate stuff 2-1, miracles 2-1, and mono blue omnitell 2-0.

I have to say, a concern is revealing what you're on game 1 with serum powder.

[Richard Cheese]

3-0-1'd (ID on the last round) a local weekly running 4x Serum Powder, 2x Pull from Eternity, also had 4x Gemstone Caverns in the board.

I didn't draw enough of the spice to get a good feel for it, so I will test some more. I will say, gemstone caverns into turn zero entomb on their upkeep is pretty satisfying, playing around daze, spell pierce, flusterstorm.

I played against maverick/hate stuff 2-1, miracles 2-1, and mono blue omnitell 2-0.

I have to say, a concern is revealing what you're on game 1 with serum powder.

Ok I'm gonna have to goldfish this version now. Rules question on Serum Powder: if you win the die roll and choose to use Powder, I'm assuming that your opponent gets to see your exiled cards before making their mulligan decision?

[QQQ]

Ok I'm gonna have to goldfish this version now. Rules question on Serum Powder: if you win the die roll and choose to use Powder, I'm assuming that your opponent gets to see your exiled cards before making their mulligan decision?

Serum Powder is not a mulligan. It only can be used when you could mull. So you resolve the Powder and draw seven. They get to see the exiled cards. Then you choose whether to repeat this step or not. If not, you choose whether to mull or not. They then decide on their first mull. The process repeats. If you Powder again, you have to decide afterwards whether to actually mulligan or not before the oppenent decides.

[alaska]

Ok I'm gonna have to goldfish this version now. Rules question on Serum Powder: if you win the die roll and choose to use Powder, I'm assuming that your opponent gets to see your exiled cards before making their mulligan decision?

Honestly still a little unclear on Powder, I need to research more on the timing. But as was just mentioned, not sure it's in our favor.

One thing to bear in mind is, with the "traditional" list, it's damn near impossible to brick while going off.

With this serum powder, pull, caverns business, it's still unlikely, but it is possible. Drawing a 7 that looks like...2 land, goryos, 2 serum powder, thoughtseize, pull from eternity is an unfortunate possibility.

It felt a lot more stable after I added a second Children of Korlis. A simple Reanimate in place of the second one would SEEM better, but I'm not so sure it is. I found myself in several situations where the only thing to do was Lotus Petal into hardcast children. Being able to imprint Pull from Eternity onto Chrome Mox is another option.

Also, struggling with the proper number of griselbrands. Right now I'm on 3.

[Koby]

Try playing with 4 Griselbrand, and play about 20 matches. You'll know by then if you see it too much between Entomb, opening hands, and Serum Powder.

As far as Serum Powder is concerned, you perform the action as you would mulligan. So if you're going first, you would Serum Powder in place of a mulligan, and your opponent would see the cards before making any of their choices.

[Richard Cheese]

Try playing with 4 Griselbrand, and play about 20 matches. You'll know by then if you see it too much between Entomb, opening hands, and Serum Powder.

As far as Serum Powder is concerned, you perform the action as you would mulligan. So if you're going first, you would Serum Powder in place of a mulligan, and your opponent would see the cards before making any of their choices.

And like QQQ said, if you hit multiple powders...they all happen before your opponent decides whether to mulligan, correct?

[Koby]

Yes, all your "mulligan from 7 to 6" Powder decisions happen in the same "phase".

[Madman]

Tournament report 24/5/15

Hello to you all,

Please forgive the length of this, I've been longing to wax lyrical about my favourite deck... any feedback will be welcome.

I've played this deck on and off since practically the start of the thread, to not great success admittedly, but usually a winning record, some small local tournaments when the opportunity has been there, a few GPs and Bazaar of Moxen. Recently the transformational 'board ideas into Doomsday got me brewing again. I've usually played reactive boards with Serenity, Silence, Massacre, Needle, Chain of Vapor, Surgical etc. and never had much luck. Turn 1 Deathrite is the worst offender for me as they can leave it open for the game and they always seem to land the second one the turn before you can beat the 1st. You've somehow accumulated the resources to beat 2 active ones... Force of Will. I'm rubbish with Legacy Doomsday. I beat myself. I just can't work it out under pressure. You need to be calm and considered, know exactly what you're doing having practiced a lot and not mind when an opponent calls a judge while you're spending a few minutes working things out, carefully explain to the judge that you're winning this turn if they'd stop interrupting your train of thought for 2 damn seconds! Vintage, so much easier... Gush, Ancestral, Lotus, Will... lots of options.

I wanted to try something new, at least to me - The Man Plan. Tried and dismissed before, I know.

3 ideas:

1. Ignore all hate (Karakas, Needle, Revoker, Deathrite, Rest in Peace, numerous cheap artifacts, Surgical, Leyline). I wanted to try and ignore the lot, leaving them with a number of blanks and me with a plan - and slightly fewer blanks.

2. Play 4 Force in the board. I've been wanting to do this for ages - find a deck that not only can support the blue count but also is strong due to its obliterating speed. Tin Fins certainly/almost/maybe fits the bill. The count is 20 so it's close.

3. Shuffle all 15 in before game 2, and all 15 before game 3 if it’s gone to that. I'm a fan of doing this anyway.

So, the tournament was the Legacy portion of UK Eternal Championships at Worcester (80ish players). I had a reasonably stock list from a year or so ago:

Maindeck - 61:
1 Children of Korlis
3 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
1 Reanimate
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Entomb
1 Lim-Duls Vault
3 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Shallow Grave
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
4 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
1 Island
1 Swamp

Sideboard - 15:
4 Force of Will
1 Flusterstorm
2 Dig Through Time
4 Monastery Mentor
3 Young Pyromancer
1 Badlands

[IMG][/IMG]

I'm sure more than a few of you are thinking "What the Phantom Menace is that 'board?!?"

Dig might seem a little out of place in a 'board looking to dodge graveyard hate but I'd figured it wouldn't come in if I suspected Leyline. I could play it with Rest in Peace on the stack, strip RIP with discard if I needed to or just pitch it to Force if RIP has already resolved. Against anything else, they'd wait to pull the trigger playing right into my plan. I tried a few different ways to use this 'board in my limited 2 week testing including a full 15 transform. (SPOILER ALERT!) The plan I went with didn't work!!! Not at all! However, it's a testament to the strength of the deck that I turned up with a pretty dead 'board and still did reasonably well. I faced 2 decks out of 7 that I actually wanted to transform for. I liked the Forces and the small guys did actually win an otherwise tricky boardstate that Griselbrand and Emrakul would't have... once. Didn't face BUG, Miracles, anything that I'd previously thought it might work against.

I didn't take any notes beyond discard information as I was concentrating on trying not to misplay - unsuccessfully, and trying to stay sharp after the previous days Vintage so almost all of this is by memory, sorry if I got something wrong.

Round 1: James - Dredge (1-2)

Lose the roll. He leads with Faithless Looting binning Grave Troll. I've kept my 7, an unprotected turn 1 because it's the reason to play the deck, and burst some onions on my turn. It involves Children into Tendrils post combat revealing a fully black border deck to him with everything foiled that can be. I'm very much enjoying myself and he grins looking quite impressed, took it well, nice guy. I think, this is an excellent day shaping up well which obviously leads to the worst punt of the day!

Game 2.
First issue with the board comes up immediately. I got thumped by Dredge the previous day in Vintage. I've got nothing planned beyond be faster. After all, who plays Dredge in Legacy! I board in a Flusterstorm for a Probe and leave it at that. I have a 6 I can keep with cantrips, LDV and Entomb. He gets some early pressure with an Ichorid and a few Bridge Zombies and I'm facing lethal on my 3rd turn if I don't finish him as there's a large amount of cards in his graveyard and he can flash back Looting during his turn and I can't see any way that he won't Flame-Kin me for 40 or so even if I Flusterstorm it. I still had the LDV in hand having Pondered into a Reanimate for his Griselbrand! (Yeah, that felt good!) It felt so good that I hit him for 7 and drew 7 without thinking with LDV still in hand. I glance at the one guy who's watching and roll my eyes, briefly wondering if he's on Tin Fins too as we're only 15-20 minutes into the round. He asked after the round was over why I didn't cast LDV 1st - I had the mana to do so. I could only respond with, "because I'm an idiot". When I did cast it, now on 6 life, the first 5 I looked at would have won me the game with Tendrils if I still had the life to draw them all. I said to myself "Great, Kid! Don't get cocky!!"

Game 3.
I'm paid in full when i have to mull to 4 looking for mana and he kills me on his turn 3 thanks to Cephalid Coliseum. I'm pretty sure he also had turn 0 Leyline of the Void which really left me with nothing to do. (I Flusterstormed his turn 2 Breakthrough, it still didn't help and I feel like a chump for not playing at least 1 Chain of Vapor in the 'board and want to hurl a foil Flusterstorm across the room).

0-1

Round 2: Rhys - ANT (2-1)

Lose the roll. He plays Probe, seeing the combo. Probe from me proves that he can't stop me, I burst onions and try and keep it simple as the 1st 7 reveals that I can just put Emrakul into play and swing with both as he too smiles. These guys, they take it well!

Game 2.
I think, why did I bother with a board at all as I put in the lone Flusterstorm. We both keep cantrip/discard hands and I think I'm favourite after 5 or 6 turns each. When I go for it he stops me in my tracks with a Brainstorm into Chain of Vapor in response to the 1st draw 7, if I go again and miss, Ritual Tendrils will kill me so I let it resolve with nearly all my mana tapped in play and no fast mana in hand knowing I'm going to have an excellent next turn - which I don't get. His storm count is way more than my life total thanks to Past in Flames. Tendrils me for a Billion! Should have gone for it. (I was reminded again that I should have run Chain of Vapor in the board, though obviously not for this matchup, TES - maybe, they run Xantid Swarm.)

Game 3.
Was a bit of an anticlimax after a quite interactive 2nd game as I got a turn 1 Probe, Entomb during his end step and Goryo's on my turn 2. Griselbrand provided decent cards this time.

1-1

Round 3: Matt - Affinity (2-1)

Lose the roll again. He empties his hand turn 1 complete with Cranial Plating. I look at my 1 land hand of Thoughtseize, Therapy, Griselbrand, a 2 mana reanimate spell and a cantrip. All I can do is grin and say "That seems really weak!" I mean it sarcastically but he must think I'm the biggest douche in history when I rip Ritual off the top and get my 3rd game 1, turn 1 victory in a row. I'm far too excited to explain or apologize so I'll take the opportunity now, sorry Matt, I completely lucksacked it.

Game 2.
Finally an excuse to use some board tech as I'm expecting quite a lot of hate from him - Canonist, Thoughtseize, Relic etc, so I board the counters shaving numbers - not blue ones (1 Griselbrand, 1 Goryo's, 1 Thoughtseize, 1 Chrome Mox and I think 1 Ritual). I keep a risky 6 that has a counter, a cantrip and some discard. The counter does its job stopping the turn 1 hate but I draw mana and nothing else and not with Griselbrand just agonizingly slowly off the top for 3 straight turns while he kills me. The second big flaw in the board rears its head but I don't notice until it's too late. Ethersworn Canonist! I'd remembered the card but somehow not noticed how much it makes my man plan look like a right "Mr. Confused", while still putting a dent in plan A. It's actually easier to play around when I'm in Tin Fins mode. It's one of the reasons I play 3 Griselbrand. When you run the reactive board you probably don't even notice the card. Cute, you say as you LDV for Massacre/Toxic Deluge during his end step. I board out the counters and wonder if at some point I should turn up to a tournament with just a main deck.

Game 3.
4th turn 1. I'm the first to admit that I'm not the best at this game, but honestly this deck sometimes makes you feel like you're the god of magic and I can't thank Richard Cheese, Phazonmutant, Koby etc all enough for making and tuning this. And the guy who thought of Children - you sir are a genius. I'm not going to trawl through the thread again to find it, I'm sure someone will remind me. I'm in the middle of putting Emrakul into play when I see Lee at the next table grinning broadly saying "honestly, who plays Emrakul?" I've got a snappy comeback ready and its quite wiped from my mind when I glance at his board state and see Emrakul, Ulamog, Karakas and a huge array of Cloudposts and for once feel just a tinge of jealousy. When it gets going, it too is a very cool deck!

2-1

Round 4: Steven - Death and Taxes (2-1)

Lose the roll. I'm sensing a theme. He'd played Unpowered Elfball in the previous days Vintage Championship and I see no reason to assume that he shouldn't be on the Legacy version. He leads with Plains - pass the turn, so I'm already planning a complete transform as D&T runs so many main deck cards that give you fits let alone after 'board. I make the 2nd major missplay of the day and get away with it. Attacking for the win (eventually) with 3 separate Griselbrands over a series of turns that all either brick or can't draw and get exiled EOT. My life total was a yo-yo and was on 5 many times this game, though I do get to strip all his Swords to Plowshares during the process clearing the way. Why I didn't go for Emrakul the 2nd time is still a mystery.

Game 2.
Complete transform, taking out all the main deck guys, instant reanimation, Tendrils and a couple of Rituals. Leave in Entomb as it can grab Therapy, or a Mentor if you have the Reanimate. At first it works, Force the Vial (caused a raised eyebrow, might have been wrong, might have been that it was the Judge promo), 2 quick Pyromancers and some triggers, then the wheels come off. 1 gets sent farming. I start to get my lands ported during upkeep, Canonist and Containment Priest make it difficult for me to finish him off, Crusader followed by Stoneforge for SOFI means my newly found Mentor has to chump block without getting a trigger... Sigh. It's at this point it finally registers that Canonist is pretty bad for me when I'm looking to chain spells. There's 2 shiny Chain of Vapor and an extra LDV sitting in my hotel room...

Game 3.
Board it all out and do what I should have tried to do in game 2 and get my 5th turn 1 victory of the day and certainly my favourite win as Griselbrand drew 14, then had to swing drawing another 7 leaving me on 4. I'd used 2 Petals to start it off and had 3 Rituals and Tendrils to finish the job but no way to cast them. I was sorting out a 7 to kill him with the following turn when I glanced at him and he was giving me a disbelieving look so I looked again at the bunch of cards I'd put aside to discard though I don't think I'd announced it, saw there was a single Probe that I'd missed the first glance through, thought I might as well cast it even though I knew his hand already, told him what what was going on, explaining he was probably dead the following turn anyway, went to 2 and ripped Petal off the top. Lucky doesn't even begin to describe it. He smiled and took it well, another very cool guy. (This might have actually been turn 2, but I can't remember so go with it)

3-1

Round 5: Mark - DeathBlade (2-0)

Lose the roll!!!! He leads with turn 1 Deathrite - finally, my nemesis. He's cast it off a Scrubland and when I Thoughtseize him I find out why seeing Wasteland, Stoneforge and 2 Swords to Plowshares. I take a Swords. He lands Batterskull and it connects twice to take him well above 20 but he doesn't find any green source. I have a lot of fast mana and am able to Thoughtseize the 2nd Swords, use a mini Tendrils before Grisebrand in order to draw 7, find Children, finish with Emrakul.

Game 2.
Turn 1 Deathrite again - Nuts! I've boarded the counters but didn't see them in my opening hand. Marks shattered having ferried other people to the event, so its a bit understandable when he makes an error game 2 and it costs him. Sorry dude. He landed an early Stoneforge tapping Deathrite and Tropical on turn 2 which though probably the right play, I didn't understand at first. In all my testing an active Deathrite with green mana up while not unbeatable is still hard to beat, a 2nd is practically game over. "Just wait me out dude", I'm inwardly shouting (however, it's pretty clear that he's tired enough that settling in for a grind isn't an option for him). I don't have the combo but I can make him pay for it. I cast Thoughtseize figuring he must have counters to make that play. He didn't - Swords to Plowshares. Nearly as good. I took the Swords and for good measure Therapy took Batterskull as well leaving him with a Baleful Strix. Light dawns - no black source - and it's critical. With it he can probably ride Deathrite for the game. Without it he needs to force the issue. He only drew 1 more land, a Tundra, and couldn't do much for the next couple of turns while I assembled the combo thanks to my counters. He tried to dig for some extra pressure and more answers by making the Strix tapping Deathrite and Tropical again leaving up Tundra. I thought the only reason he'd do that was if he had another Swords so I Probed, Therapied and hit, started to go off with Griselbrand and he scooped when he saw that Emrakul was on the cards too, clearly annoyed at his mistake. He was very gracious in defeat considering how mana screwed he'd been in both games. Bad luck Mark, tiredness is the cause of a lot of match losses, I've been there. In fact in the very near future... or recent past as it is now.

4-1

Round 6: Lee - 12 Post (1-2)

You guessed it, lose the roll. It's the win and in. Winner can ID the last round. I know exactly what he's on and when he says he remembers seeing me but can't remember exactly what I'm on, I feel good about my keep that has turn 1 discard, turn 2 reanimation (discard targets him, I can Entomb during his end step off Petal or save it till my turn). That is until he leads with Tropical, Crop Rotates it into Karakas and plays Pithing Needle naming Griselbrand!!! Guess it came back to him. That's a particular combo he had in all 3 games so I was already feeling good about the man plan. I need a Ritual or Petal off the top so I can go for Emrakul but don't get it. He untaps Karakas and leaves it open for the game. He has Show and Tells but I leave them alone and he never plays them - rightly so as I'd then have 2 guys in play having drawn Griselbrand and have a sniff of a chance. He played tight and when Prime Time off Cavern of Souls mana got Eye of Ugin, I could see the writing on the wall and could never assemble enough resources to make him tap Karakas during his turn and still be able to do anything relevant during my turn. I scooped to save some time.

Game 2.
Board in everything, take out all the big dudes. This time it really works. Turn 1 Pyromancer! Probe you! Needle - sure, names Griselbrand - cool, Karakas - don't mind if you do. (If I'd left it to Griselbrand this would have been a swift 0-2 unless I had the nuts and with so many turn 1's already under my belt I'm glad I didn't push my luck). I make a bunch of tokens with cantrips and discard, Force anything relevant. Unfortunately I have to reveal I'm running Mentor too just so he doesn't get 1 more turn.

Game 3.
Board 15 cards, take out 15, make sure he sees it. Keep the man plan, it worked before. He has Show and Tells this game but never gets to cast them as I strip them from his hand during the mid game as there's nothing else to take. I keep a hand with cantrip, discard and Force. He has the early Needle again so I turn 1 cantrip, can't remember if it's a Ponder, or a Brainstorm during his 2nd end step. I Probe on turn 2 (1st mistake - should have Thoughtseized) and he Crop Rotates in response leaving him with 1 land in play, I should have let him because he'd probably have gone for Karakas but instead (2nd mistake coming) I Forced pitching the only Dig I saw all day to try and keep him off Cavern (I think Force is fine if I'd pitched Probe). I see a hand with a Sensei's Divining Top which I Thoughtseize away and no mana - Score! I also Therapy his Expedition Map - Bonus! It might have been ok but it took me too long to find a Mentor, by the time I did he'd managed to find another Top and used it to make sure Prime Time wasn't stripped from his hand - I didn't know it was there, I just figured what else can he be doing other than saving it till he has mana. He's been playing off the top since I stripped his hand long ago. I then made another error that this time cost me the game. I've 4 lands when I cast Mentor, immediately made Chrome Mox, no Imprint leaving a single Therapy in hand which I figured I'd cast next turn for more triggers. I drew a Force which I couldn't cast, realized he probably had the mana to cast the Titan the following turn, remembered I'd been trying to keep him off Cavern for a reason and compounded the error by sandbagging the Therapy. I think that I have to bluff Force with only 2 cards in hand - I'm tired. (Judge foil FoW's look awful when they rot in your hand.) A turn later he goes for it anyway and casts Prime Time without Cavern in play - awkward. I have 1 free turn left, not for the 1st time this game I wish I hadn't been so hasty pitching Dig to Force in the early turns, now I really need the other 1 and could probably still have won if I'd got it. Instead I get a 2nd Therapy and used them with flashback naming Black Lotus on his empty hand to try to force him to block with the Titan but he wasn't buying any of it (he grabbed his pen and quickly drew a Lotus on his hand said it was empty and palmed it into his graveyard - nice touch, I like this guy!). He took the damage and found all the lands he needed, 1st Glacial Chasm and Glimmerpost - gaining 7 at that point. Eye of Ugin the following turn having sacked the Chasm. I'd drawn my 5th land. Cute deck, thanks for that. Also spotted another Therapy I could have used in the yard. Great! How many missplays can I make in a single game when I really needed to be tight. We'd drawn a bit of a crowd by now and it's far too late to beat myself up by telling
him how I should have played had I just spotted it in time - so I let him play it out. He declared infinite Emrakuls with Karakas and went for Ulamog to kill my Mentor with 50 odd mana available. I realize that if there's a 2nd Karakas and a 2nd of either eldrazi he has infinite both with Prime Time in play. I Force his Ulamog to give him a full library so he can demonstrate it if he has it, he goes to combat without using Eye and doesn't bother with Prime Time triggers so I assume he doesn't. Infinite Emrakuls is probably good enough. I went to my concede step. Sadness on the stack.... Sadness resolves! I remember my previous opponents and how well they all took it, smile, shake his hand and genuinely wish him luck hopefully not betraying how disappointed I was with my own play. If you dish it out with a deck like Tin Fins, you've got to be prepared to take it too and his deck is certainly a cool one to lose to! I know, I played the Therapys terribly. I Forced terribly. This game was definitely winnable. My turn to let tiredness rule my play. Not to take anything away from Lee who played tight with no errors that I saw and deserved the win on the day.

4-2

Round 7: Andrew - Dredge (2-1)

Lose the roll, shouldn't really have been surprised. We both know we're out no matter what but decide to play it out and have some fun - I certainly intended to and got my wish. He gets in some early beats with Ichorid but I'm able to do the Tendrils first again to enable the extra draw 7 that drew me into an Emrakul attack.

Game 2.
Single Flusterstorm again - Jeez, I think. My 'board is rubbish! There's times when it's more trouble than it's worth, this whole 15 in, 15 out thing. I pray he doesn't have Leyline - he doesn't... yet. I wait until he actually puts down some pressure before I go for it, sculpting the hand. He Surgically Extracts Griselbrand and I realize my sculpting skills need a little work.

Game 3.
I don't bother shuffling 15 in, there's really no point at this stage. I just silently thank the Tin Fins gods he isn't running Leyline (I'd spotted a Faerie Macabre in game 2. Leylines on top of that and Surgical would have been crazy), otherwise I'd have been very tempted to transform considering how round 1 went. As it was, a transform would probably have worked out just fine anyway as he mulls to 4 or maybe even 3 obviously looking for graveyard hate. I wait for a Probe or discard to let me know the coast is clear, it's a Probe and it's definitely not clear. I see 1 Surgical and 2 Faerie Macabre. I'm Michelangelo! By the time I go for it, I've Thoughtseized the Surgical and have 2 Rituals and 3 reanimation spells. That'll do it! Onions were burst for the final time in spectacular fashion. (I drew so well off 14 I wish I'd had a Quicken as I could have cast Tendrils with annihilator on the stack!)

5-2

A 15 point ends up making it, but my breakers are terrible - 12th.

I'd have liked to play a second LDV but I do like the discard yourself option hence 3 Griselbrand. Next time Chain of Vapor is definitely making the cut. I never tried Daze though I know others have to some success - probably should have and will do soon. I did like having the Force option, the extra LDV might just sway it for me to try again in a reactive board. Swapping the Digs for Chains, leaving out Flusterstorm would keep the blue count at 20. Boarding 6 is a lot though, but it won't stop me from testing this further. If I do run counters again it'd have to be one or the other. Force AND Daze is just normal Reanimator and I don't want to go there. It defeats the point of the deck. The Flusterstorm was bad enough! Just for the fun of it I'm also thinking of testing a Snapcaster if I'm going to try anything like a man plan again - unlikely! Please do let me know if you liked any of it, hated all of it etc. Many thanks. Can't wait for Lille!!!

Props/Slops:

Props to Manaleak UK for putting on the whole weekend. Very few people put in an enormous amount of work both before and during to make it happen and did an excellent job! Good space to play with plenty of elbow room - no playmats overlapping here, a free bottle of water for all players - awesome! Hope it becomes a regular event.

Props to everyone I played - (they're all getting slops too btw!) - not a single judge call from me or them for the entire day which I'm pretty sure is a first for me. I think one guy pulled over the card to check the text on Children. I definitely needed to reread Glacial Chasm - with some dismay... and that was it.

Props to Lee who made 9th in Vintage on breakers (unlucky) and Legacy top 8 (and for going infinite with Emrakul... a lot!).

Props also to Martin who travelled with us (and quite a long way before that - from Sweden) for good results narrowly missing out on top 8 in both Vintage and Legacy. Good to see you dude, unlucky.

Extra special props to Ben and Rod for lending the FBB Duals that enabled a full black border deck. They really tied the room together! And nobody peed on them.

Slops to me for drinking too much but I was having a good weekend and enjoying time with your friends plays a huge part in what makes this game fun.

Slops also to me for not speaking to the other Tin Fins players, there definitely were at least 2 others, I know I heard at one point "Goryo's targets Griselbrand" from a couple of tables down. Sorry guys and gals, there's no excuse for that - I'm going to give one anyway - despite how it might read, most of my matches went close to time and I spent the little spare time I had stocking up on fluids, taking pain killers, checking how my friends had done, munching Jaffa cakes (thanks Ben) and getting fresh air (and then polluting it with cigarette smoke). Note to self - must make more effort!

Slops again to me for porting 13 out of 15 cards in the 'board straight out of my Vintage deck from the previous day and expecting it to work (+1 Pyromancer, +1 Badlands). I didn't get what I deserved, which was to do a lot worse than I did. Turns out Lotus, Ancestral, 4 Gush and 4 Misstep kind of pulls it all together - Who knew!

Slops to everyone I played for never giving me the chance to mutter "The Force is strong with this one" by Forcing my Force. A fact I'm secretly pretty thankful for - I'd decided not to play my altered Vader Rituals (thanks Sandreline) for the 1st time since I'd got them in favor of foil ones, just so there wouldn't be any issues and the quote just doesn't have the same allure without them.

Slops to SCG for having an eternal weekend on the same days as ours - also at Worcester - what are the odds!!! (Obviously a different Worcester which didn't make finding directions for the event online tricky at all - much!). For all of you in the US - Yes, there's a Worcester across the pond too... where do you think you got yours from!

Slops - and I can't stress this enough - to everyone who calls it a mainboard. It's a main "DECK" and a side "BOARD"!!! A mainboard is, as far as I can tell... the full 75 (or in my case 76). Sort it out people!

There were times I felt I played like a champ, times I definitely played like a chump, and all the time your "wonderful deck" dragged me through it kicking and screaming. See?... It's a wonderful DECK, not a wonderful BOARD... and I think we can all agree I'm right on this one.

It's been fun writing this so I hope you enjoyed reading. The deck was an absolute blast to play! The 'board was... Interesting? - well that'd be a stretch. Different? - almost certainly. Crazy? - definitely. Bad? - well... yeah. All of the above? - I'll let you be the judges of that. (Insert your keyword of choice - way ahead of you... be nice, people!).

[dte]

Hello,

Thanks for this really detailed report and congrats!

On the man-plan in the side deck () subject, if I counted properly you won 10 games out of 15 with the Tin-Fins plan (plus a flusterstorm sometimes), while losing 3 games out of 4 with the mans.
Do you think it is because of the manplan by itself, and did you think about other creatures which can do the work well? Delver, Death Shadow, pack rat come to mind. Both eschew the thalia / cannonist hate that you can expect from your opponents, and are not from splash colours. Maybe if someone has better ideas?

A second think I'm unsure about your SB is the 7 men // 5 counters structure. Usually decks do not want FoW against non-combo deck, and we want to stay combo against other combo decks. So it seems a bit contradictory to me to run a manplan + FoW SB.

[alastair]

Slops also to me for not speaking to the other Tin Fins players, there definitely were at least 2 others, I know I heard at one point "Goryo's targets Griselbrand" from a couple of tables down. .

I could only find one, and they were on the reactive plan with the usual U/B/W suspects. There was one straight reanimate build. I am sad and disappointed that I let the side down plumbing for Team America.

(next thing we know you'll be on Facebook Mark !!).

[Madman]

Thanks dte: (Side Deck! - Love it)

The Man Plan:
I'd considered Delver, Tasigur and Pack Rat - Death's Shadow, not so much, the chances of you having that in the 1st couple of turns is really small. I didn't add either of the first 2 because I didn't feel I could really protect them properly, you really want to be able to ride 1 for the game and 4 force isn't enough for that. Most RUG decks for example have 8-10 counters.

Really all I did was to remove the instant speed reanimation spells and the existing guys and see what was left, which is essentially some acceleration, some cantrips and some discard - all 1 mana or less. This led me to think that spell chains were an option. Mentor and Pyromancer seemed the best fit. Pack Rat I dismissed due to its card disadvantage. Compared to Mentor (seeing as it's 3 mana for an activation), would you rather discard a probe and get a guy, or use it, see their hand, draw another cantrip/discard AND get a guy, (btw. Prowess triggers)

I was really just trying to illustrate 2 points:

1. The Man Plan didn't work, or at least not at all like I wanted it to. If you think it warrants further testing, I'd obviously be interested. (Any other guys you think I should have tried?) Overall I think Yes, it's because of the Man Plan itself. I didn't know anybody who'd tried it like this and I wanted to give it a go at least once.

2. The main deck is astonishingly strong. I know a lot of luck was involved, but there was a catalog of errors and I managed a decent result. As you observed my record in TinFins mode was streets ahead of anything in the board.

Re: Force
I think I'd just got fed up with turn 1 hate I couldn't interact with when on the draw, which then caused me to slow down in order to find answers, giving them time to overrun me. I'd run into this situation a lot over the last year or so with TinFins until something cracked. Force is the go to Legacy "NO" card and I definitely wanted to say that to every Deathrite, every 1 mana artifact I ran into. I think this was actually my first decision about the board. The man plan idea evolved from that as I'd have a way to protect them too under transform conditions. limited protection, but still having some way to interact on the stack seemed crucial unless you run True Name or Geist (and they need equipment to be really good). I'd figured Force would work against everything except Abrupt Decay and I'd be really unlucky if they left them in. Flusterstorm I didn't like. I boarded it because I felt I should do something rather than nothing and in nearly every case it would have been better as a 2nd LDV or a Chain of Vapor. Not saying it was right by a long shot, it wasn't, it didn't work either - Deathrite still landed turn 1, I just got lucky. Needle landed turn 1 as well with nothing I could do about it. Very annoying! Though I'd like to test it further (counters in general that is, Daze is next up), my intent was that the entire report be an illustration of what not to do with the board. And if I made you smile along the way - mission accomplished.


Alastair
Sorry, thought there were 2, I stand corrected.
(I wouldn't go that far - 1 step at a time)

[.dk]

Nice report - your board is hilarious! As far as man plans go... I actually really like Monastery Mentor. That's a neat idea with all of the rituals and artifact mana that we run. I guess I don't understand why you didn't just jam a board of 12-15 creatures though to overload on threats. Seems like just jamming them through countermagic might be better than trying to protect something with Force. Richard Cheese and I have been discussing a man plan board for a very long time now... dudes we've talked about:

Delver
Serendib Efreet
Phyrexian Obliterator
Tombstalker

And newer ones obviously in the form of Tasigur and/or Gurmag Angler.

I don't think either of us ever actually tried any of these though, so props to you for giving the man plan a shot!

[Madman]

Many thanks .dk, not just for your feedback.

It'd been a really long time since I'd read the OP, but it's there right in front of me.
Children - thanks to Dela and yourself. It's the glue that enables all the ridiculous plays - BRILLIANT, and Thanks!

I'm glad you liked Mentor. I still think it's the best option for a man plan. The first 'board I tried was a 14 with Forces, Mentors, Show and Tells and 2 Ancient Tomb to power them out (obviously still keeping in the big guys at that point). Containment Priest made the S&T part of the idea look pretty bad which is when Pyromancer got added.

Some more explanation of why I ran the board I did with respect to the 12-15 creature options...

I have also tried this 12 creature option:

4 Delver
4 Pyromancer
4 Mentor
2 Dig
1 Badlands

I didn't like it and thought 4 Force was much better than Delver. Not only can you not protect your Delver for the game the way RUG can, I found it too many creatures, especially as they all want you to have spells. With Mentor/Pyromancer I'd thought there was a fine line between drawing too many creatures in a row getting no triggers and not finding 1 to start things off quickly enough. Delver reveals Pyromancer or a Petal instead of flipping for example, Ponder reveals a Delver, a Pyromancer and a land when you've a Mentor in play and want to be chaining spells. Maybe I was getting an unlucky run, but that sort of thing happened too often for me to stick with it. I've also tried Preordain with Mentor/Pyromancer instead of Force to try and increase the chances of a spell chain and didn't like that option either. With no real way to stop their plan - whatever it might be, it felt like just a really bad Delver deck. I ran Force primarily to stop them, either stopping their turn 1 hate if I'm only siding counters, or stopping their main plan buying me time to win in the full 15 transform. Protecting my guys with a "free" trigger just being a bonus if it was available. I was trying to be in a position where I didn't care if they dealt with a Mentor. I'd hopefully have other prowess guys left over to finish the job.

Although I never tested it with lots of "single" creatures (ones that don't make any additional creatures), I think that with 12-15 guys, Mentor/Pyromancer aren't as good and probably shouldn't make the cut. There really are so many issues you run into with "single" guys though, quite apart from the obvious 2...

1. They don't leave anything behind if they're dealt with.

2. You've no way to protect them. On the stack that is, you could always discard their removal.

(I know I'm probably covering old ground here, but for what it's worth - my thoughts on the others that have been mentioned)
Delver in a 12-15 creature 'board, I don't think flips as reliably as you want him to.
Serendib Efreet is Delver 5-8, but coming out too slow with not a big enough clock to be worth the extra mana.
(Isn't True Name just better than Efreet, they couldn't StP that. Still too slow though.)
I didn't like Obliterator as it seemed you had to have Ritual to cast it at all. If you don't have Ritual it rots in hand. It also has the same problem as Tasigur, Angler or Tombstalker - if it's exiled with StP, it could easily leave you with more uncastable copies in hand and no board presence.
The more cheap creatures you run, the harder it is to cast delve creatures as you're not stocking up the yard quick enough.
The more "3 mana or more" guys you run, the more likelihood of having too many in hand unable to cast.
The delve mechanic also looks pretty bad if you face turn 0 LotV or an early RIP, or any graveyard hate really... it's coming in - we're reanimating Griselbrand!
Goyf? Deathrite? Could be options (I've run reactive 'boards before with Decay and Bayou, they're pretty good), but I think you'd just be a really bad BUG deck.

Sorry if I'm sounding really disparaging, I'm not meaning to be a killjoy. I did consider quite a lot of options and these were the reasons why they never even made the testing sessions... well, Delver did but not to any success. I'm just skeptical that any of the "single" creatures could actually be good enough to make the cut with nothing to protect them, even when jamming lots of them. However, I didn't have a lot of time available so maybe I'm missing something.

[Richard Cheese]

Awesome report, and a really interesting take on the 'man plan'. The main issue I had with it was that it left some of the opposing hate weirdly relevant. If they leave in removal or get you with discard, Surgical on 4 of your 12 threats is pretty brutal. Then there's grave hate messing with any delve guys, Karakas on Tasigur, and random stuff like Ensnaring Bridge. Also other people generally have blockers, so everything needs to be evasive.

It's been a while since I messed with it though, and the meta definitely seems a little bit softer to it now. I really like the 'dude generators' although I'm not crazy about splashing another color just for Pyromancer. Maybe Mentor with Delver and True-Name? Seems too mana-intensive. There's also Lingering Souls and/or Bitterblossom, and randos like Master of the Feast.

[Madman]

Thanks Richard Cheese,

I completely agree about running into hate that was not intended for my board but interacts with it favorably for them anyway. (I found out the hard way with Ethersworn Canonist).

I'd not considered the other token makers like Souls or Bitterblossom. My gut reaction is, they wouldn't make enough impact quick enough (Souls also runs into hate, you might only get 2 1/1s). Mentor can win quite easily in 2 to 3 turns, if you can create a Monk or 2 the turn you make him with Probe or Petal - 1 to 2 turns.

About splashing R for Pyromancer:
Having splashed G for Abrupt Decay before (every fetch finds Bayou), it didn't seem a problem with every fetch able to find Badlands. I never ran into any issues finding red mana when I needed it thanks to Petal as well. That said, he definitely is a poor mans Mentor in this sort of build and can't finish the game anywhere near as quickly. The difference between having prowess triggers and not is huge especially if the Pyromancer dies. I'm currently looking into other red cards to make the splash worthwhile and some more reactive options that'd give me a good reason to cut red entirely.

Master of the Feast!!! Now that's... asking for trouble... exactly my sort of card! Testing begins immediately!

In general, Richard Cheese, .dk, dte, very many thanks for not just dismissing the idea out of hand and for giving me more ideas to work with. I'd thought it hadn't worked and was set to shelve it completely. Now though, you're making me want to do something really "silly" for Lille!