[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[ZeDan]

Just for us people on small devices who don't really like to scroll back thru multiple post to look for lists and hope they find the one or ones you are talking about, could you post your currently-discussed main/side please?

Hi Zooligan,

No problem. Here is the mainboard I'm using (courtesy of dk):

4 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Children of Korlis
1 Collective Brutality
4 Dark Ritual
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Entomb
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Griselbrand
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
4 Lotus Petal
3 Ponder
1 Reanimate
4 Shallow Grave
3 Unmask

And here is the sideboard I'm using (courtesy of Acclimation):

4 Mentor
1 Collective Brutality
1 Pithing Needle
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Massacre
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Serenity
1 Cavern of Souls

[Zooligan]

Thanks ZeDan!

[gRR!!]

Hey there folks,

I've been browsing through this awesome thread and I'm considering to burst some onions myself. I have to recognize that I haven't read the 159 pages (yet), so I'm sorry if this has been previously answered: In the match-ups where you switch to the man plan post-board, do you always make the switch before game 2, or is better to try to win G2 via combo and then, if we fail, bring in the Mentors, catch the opponent off-guard and win with monks game 3? And what if we lost game one? Do we switch (to Mentors) G2 and then switch back again G3? No one plays Tin Fins here in my meta, so I think Mentors will be totally unexpected. Let me know, thanks!

[Karhumies]

Hey there folks,

I've been browsing through this awesome thread and I'm considering to burst some onions myself. I have to recognize that I haven't read the 159 pages (yet), so I'm sorry if this has been previously answered: In the match-ups where you switch to the man plan post-board, do you always make the switch before game 2, or is better to try to win G2 via combo and then, if we fail, bring in the Mentors, catch the opponent off-guard and win with monks game 3? And what if we lost game one? Do we switch (to Mentors) G2 and then switch back again G3? No one plays Tin Fins here in my meta, so I think Mentors will be totally unexpected. Let me know, thanks!

The general idea is that whenever you expect them to have spot removal (e.g. Swords) left in their sideboard and grave hate added into their deck, you should be on the man plan. Sideboarding for game 3 can go into a "mind games" mode.

[Kobra_D]

The general idea is that whenever you expect them to have spot removal (e.g. Swords) left in their sideboard and grave hate added into their deck, you should be on the man plan. Sideboarding for game 3 can go into a "mind games" mode.

Especially that last part. I usually don't do this for time constraints but when I have a mentors in the board I will shuffle my sideboard in between games and then pick out 15.

I know some people do this no matter what but I find it especially relevant with transformation style sideboards.

You will find your own preference as you come across match ups but my sb usually goes along the lines of:
G2 OTP- I will bring in 4 mentors if I expect leylines, or don't expect leylines but don't have anything else good in the match up. I will probably try to squeeze in 2 mentors otherwise as a plan b. If I expect my opp. has stone cold nothing, then I am resubmitting my original 60.

G2 OTD- Unless I have a lot of good other side board cards or I expect my opponent has nothing I will bring in 4 mentors.

G3 OTP- If my opp. saw mentor G2 I will board them out. If my opp. did not see mentor and I lost from trying to reanimate I will keep 4. Otherwise, I will probably keep 1 s that I can try to combo as fast as posible.

G3 OTD- If my opp. saw mentor G2 I will likely go down to 2 (unless it's a leyline deck where I stay at 4). If my opp. didn't see mentor, I'm keeping 4.

[gRR!!]

I get it, thank you for the answers! Ill try your approach and see what happens.

I have another doubt (again, I haven't tested the deck yet, so sorry if my questions are alrerady answered and/or silly): How do we survive if we have our Griselbrands Surgical'd (assuming we are not on the man plan)? It seems way more devastating than in other Reanimator builds. Is the pack of Probes+Therapies+Unmasks+1 CoBru+instant reanimation (if we have mana) enough to protect us?

I have to say I've goldfished the deck a dozen times and it seems absurdly fun (infinite life+infinite card draws+infinite spells on turn 1? Please!). Thanks to all the contributors to this thread!

[Acclimation]

Sometimes you get your boys extracted, and sometimes they get cocky and fetch below 15 life and you can sneak an Emrakul and/or a CoBru to steal a game. Heck, Children beats have gotten me there a few times as well.

[Kobra_D]

Sometimes Grisebrand gets surgical'd and you can do stone cold nothing about it. This is already a fast combo deck, you can represent lethal every turn. So, especially in post board games, slow down. if you can just wait a little and try to play around something like SE it could help. Or just waiting to set up reanimate with shallow grave could be enough.

I sometimes keep a grave titan in the side and will entomb that first post board. You spend too a lot of resources on it so I think sculpting a hand is better, but it can bate out a surgical or a counter spell.

Now opening this up to the community at large, can we play surgical extraction? It's good in other match ups plus is anti hate versus opp.'s hates. Probably not right, but seems spicy.

[Richard Cheese]

Sometimes Grisebrand gets surgical'd and you can do stone cold nothing about it. This is already a fast combo deck, you can represent lethal every turn. So, especially in post board games, slow down. if you can just wait a little and try to play around something like SE it could help. Or just waiting to set up reanimate with shallow grave could be enough.

I sometimes keep a grave titan in the side and will entomb that first post board. You spend too a lot of resources on it so I think sculpting a hand is better, but it can bate out a surgical or a counter spell.

Now opening this up to the community at large, can we play surgical extraction? It's good in other match ups plus is anti hate versus opp.'s hates. Probably not right, but seems spicy.

It was a pretty standard sideboard pick for a long time. I think Koby gets credit for starting that trend. I personally didn't have much success with it but I never ran into many other gy-based strategies and also I are not smart.

[Acclimation]

I've been playing 2-3 Surgical Extraction in my sb since 2013, so idk where you've been because it's literally in the primer.

[Kobra_D]

It was a pretty standard sideboard pick for a long time. I think Koby gets credit for starting that trend. I personally didn't have much success with it but I never ran into many other gy-based strategies and also I are not smart.

Good to know. Praise be to Koby.

Mr. Cheese, can you update the primer in the Playing Around Hate section to include this? I suppose it is obvious enough for good players, but bad players (like me) need help.

I've been playing 2-3 Surgical Extraction in my sb since 2013, so idk where you've been because it's literally in the primer.

Sure, it being a good sideboard card is noted, but not the interaction of whiffing their surgical with yours. I'll just be looking to board it in more matches now.

[Zooligan]

Wouldn't something like Faerie Macabre be a better fit for this deck over Surgical? You have to have both in-hand, FM costs you less (the life can be significant in certain situations), and you can yoink an extra card from their yard if you are trying to blank them on a target in yours.

[Whitefaces]

Faerie can be a nonbo with Shallow Grave.

[Kobra_D]

Faerie can be a nonbo with Shallow Grave.

Furthermore, the generally stronger grave hate is surgical extraction (granted it's not strictly better). So if you're running surgical as your grave hate for other people it has the added case of being able to protect you from losing all of your griselbrands. You still fizzle it seems but at least it is no longer the worst case scenario.

Anyways, I always assumed surgical hit all cards similar to how cabal therapy hits "all" in a non- may fashion. I'm glad to now be aware of this extra line of play available, thanks everyone. This almost motivates me to read my cards to see and see what they do... Almost.

[.dk]

Furthermore, the generally stronger grave hate is surgical extraction (granted it's not strictly better). So if you're running surgical as your grave hate for other people it has the added case of being able to protect you from losing all of your griselbrands. You still fizzle it seems but at least it is no longer the worst case scenario.

Anyways, I always assumed surgical hit all cards similar to how cabal therapy hits "all" in a non- may fashion. I'm glad to now be aware of this extra line of play available, thanks everyone. This almost motivates me to read my cards to see and see what they do... Almost.

Faerie Macabre can do the same thing there, and grab something out of their yard at the same time. The bigger thing is exactly what Whitefaces said: Shallow Grave. Sucks to suck.

[Zooligan]

Good point. It would suck indeed to be forced to place Faerie on top of your discarded G-daddy with Shallow Grave in-hand.

[Kobra_D]

Hello Fellow Tin Finians.

Eternal Extravaganza is firing off today in Philly and I jammed the afternoon legacy side event. A little while back Karhummies suggested ground seal, skeptical I brought it with me as a *eh, why not* card.

In the current meta, ground seal is nuts. No one brings enchantment hate, and most grave hate has been faerie macabre, surgical extraction, and DRS. Sure, Czech pile is going to bring in edict effects, but ground seal shuts off so much. For a larger event I am sure it's right (currently).

Went 3-1, beating RUG delver, Czech Pile, ANT, and losing to UR Delver. UR delver had a lot to due with variance, T1 G1 and then mull to 5 game 2, mull to 6 g3. I also misread opps. hate. I assumed it was surgical/faerie, so I brought in ground seal and got blown out by grafdiggers cage. G3 I bring in abrupt decays to jam into a brainstorm into faerie macabre *shrug*.

Over all the deck feels solid, and ground seal is the ultimate in tech-y goodness. As a tangent, a few pages back people were also talking about silence. Abeyance is more costly but dodges macabre, drs and all the goodness so it could be thought of as a replacement in in white splashes.

Have fun attacking for 22 everyone.

[ElDorte]

hey Friends
Comming back to my old and true Love from playing Storm and Doomsday. Gonna sleeve up this badboy for our weekly and the Tournament on Sunday. What do you think?

//Creatures
2 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Children of Korlis

//Instants
4 Entomb
4 Dark Ritual
4 Brainstorm
4 Shallow Grave
3 Goryo's Vengeance

//Sorceries
3 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Cabal Therapy
3 Unmask
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
2 Reanimate

//Artifacts
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox

//Lands
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats

//Sideboard
SB: 4 Monastery Mentor
SB: 2 Defense Grid
SB: 3 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Serenity
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Perilous Voyage

[Kobra_D]

hey Friends
Comming back to my old and true Love from playing Storm and Doomsday. Gonna sleeve up this badboy for our weekly and the Tournament on Sunday. What do you think?

//Creatures
2 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Children of Korlis

//Instants
4 Entomb
4 Dark Ritual
4 Brainstorm
4 Shallow Grave
3 Goryo's Vengeance

//Sorceries
3 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Cabal Therapy
3 Unmask
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
2 Reanimate

//Artifacts
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox

//Lands
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats

//Sideboard
SB: 4 Monastery Mentor
SB: 2 Defense Grid
SB: 3 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Serenity
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Perilous Voyage

I'm not arguing against ponder but careful study might be a consideration. Just as an extra way to bin a griselbrand. You do have plenty of discard so it doesn't seem like it would be too much of an issue, but I never liked relying on just entomb.

Since you have the mentor plan b, is cabal therapy better than thoughtseize? It's a little worse g1-t1 in the dark, but does become significantly stronger afterwards. Especially with 4 probes, the 2 life loss isn't completely free on thoughtseize.

Other than that I'm very interested in Perilous Voyage. Is that just to pick up mentor if things go bad?

[ElDorte]

yeah did not really give much thought on the Discards. Maybe go for 3 Therapy 3 Unmask and cut the Thoughtseize.

The Voyage other than the Chain of Vapor can bounce Chalice on 1. And i just take it in as a Answer to everything if needed.