[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[.dk]

Yo, if y'all wanna play bad decks that want to do cool things, check this pile I've been tinkering with out:

2 Magus of the Mind
3 Griselbrand
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Death Wish
4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
3 Corpse Dance
3 Collective Brutality
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
3 Thoughtseize
1 Past in Flames
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp

SB
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Ground Seal
1 Buried Alive
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Corpse Dance
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Collective Brutality
1 Pithing Needle

Who needs to have a good deck when you can just chain Mind's Desires and also cast Deathwish?

DRS, make your opponents confused and also mana ramp and get random value (suck it, opposing Surgicals!)

Entomb for Past in Flames, so rad.

Deathwish, life loss hurts, sure, but when you can grab your entire SB, it makes it harder to get janked out in those game 1s.

Ground Seal and your own DRS a nonbo? Just swap them out!

I started in BUG for Ground Seal and Decay, and I took a cue from the Czech pile decks and added DRS as a form of mana ramp, as we need an extra blue to activate Magus, and sometimes an extra mana to cast Corpse Dance. I haven't ran into the issue of opponents removing DRS in response to Reanimation, but it is something to be aware of. I did bump into one instance of having out DRS and a Ground Seal, but given my opponent was running Surgical that game, it seemed worth the risk.

The list could be Grixis over BUG, since that new Ground Seal effect is colorless, and BW is better than Death Wish. Mana base you can just swap the Verdants and non USea duals to their Red counterparts, drop DRS, DW for BW and some amount of Ponder, then make the sideboard more of a standard 7 Wish targets, 8 non wish targets.

I kind of want Children in the deck, but going off with Magus doesn't require a high life total, and as long as you are above 1 life, you can still cast Death Wish, so I haven't bothered with trying to slot it in.

Is the list better than the stock list I usually champion? No, but it's certainly a blast to play for FNM or side events, and it's pretty sweet once it starts going off.

Pro tip: if you can't activate Magus for more than 6, reanimate Griselbrand first.

Alternative list I ran in a Legacy side at GP Santa Clara yesterday with a couple minor changes based on the event:

2 Badlands
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Brainstorm
3 Burning Wish
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Children of Korlis
2 Collective Brutality
2 Corpse Dance
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Griselbrand
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Magus of the Mind
4 Shallow Grave
2 Thoughtseize
1 Past in Flames
Sideboard:

2 Abrupt Decay
1 Buried Alive
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Exhume
1 Grapeshot
2 Ground Seal
1 Massacre
1 Meltdown
1 Show and Tell
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Tropical Island

Deck was hilarious and a blast to play. Would definitely run again - this build wasn't quite right. Something was slightly off, but not sure what as of yet. Maybe needs more Lim Dul's Vault or something.

[Karhumies]

Alternative list I ran in a Legacy side at GP Santa Clara yesterday with a couple minor changes based on the event:.

What are your thoughts about Magus of the mind? seems like post Griselbrand win more to me. Has it ever been good for you as the first animation target? Seems like a lottery machine without storm.

[.dk]

What are your thoughts about Magus of the mind? seems like post Griselbrand win more to me. Has it ever been good for you as the first animation target? Seems like a lottery machine without storm.

Magus is bonkers. But, like Acclimation said, you don't want it if you're going to Mind's Desire for <6. Your density of mana, cantrips, and tutors generally will get you there afterwards.

Some advantages in my eyes:

1. You don't need to go to nearly as low of a life total to combo off with Magus like you would with Children of Korlis loops
2. You don't have to run Emrakul - you can actually cast Magus fairly easily post board, and have a decent shot at mind's desiring the next turn. Not graveyard dependent
3. Playing a wish board gives you access to Burning Wish -> Empty, allowing you to play through a fair amount of hate that would normally be targeted at your graveyard
4. You're playing LED. That makes your Griselbrand activations soooo much better. Been looking for a reason to justify it's inclusion for years. The mana it generates (sac between Griselbrand activations) as well as being a discard outlet in response to your instant speed reanimation makes you a lot less reliant on Entomb, which has historically been the choke point of Tin Fins
5. Magus isn't legendary - this is a plus in that you don't care about Karakas, but a minus in that you don't get to run Goryo's Vengeance. Maybe this is neutral? Maybe it's negative overall? I dunno.

I have no idea if Magus of the Mind is better than traditional Tin Fins. I do know that it has different strengths and weaknesses, which merits testing and tuning unto itself. It may be a better build in specific metas. Something like Pomegrant's old Burning Wish build - sometimes it was better than Esper Tin Fins, sometimes not. Who knows about this? Likely these lists are trash but... look at my and Richard Cheese's original lists from GP Atlanta in 2012. They were trash too - so who knows?

[DNSolver]

What's the typical play pattern with Magus that you guys are planning on? I don't see how it's better than getting Children going.

The way I see it, if you turn 1 with dark rit -> entomb Grisel -> Shallow Grave, draw 14, attack, draw 7, petal, you are at 4 storm. Now if you dark rit -> entomb magus -> shallow grave you still need a blue mana (say, petal) and that gets you to storm 8. Now Magus essentially "draws" you a set of 9 cards you can cast for free. Wouldn't you rather have gotten Children of Korlis, (!)not needing the extra colored mana(!), and drawn 21 more, then kill by assembling Emrakul loop? With 4 Petal 2 Chrome Mox I'm having a hard time missing on Children of Korlis on 21 cards, but you could miss on 2 of those effects.

One of your points was the low life total "required" for Children of Korlis. Well, you are still going to need to go that low to draw cards with Grisel to play the Magus in the first place, right?

Not "needing" to run Emrakul isn't really what I would consider it. If my opponent goes turn 1 Chalice on zero into turn 2 threat, or something that is going to seriously inhibit the combo kill with Griselbrand, such as Revoker when I don't have a removal spell, I actively go for Emrakul because it wipes that permanent, deals them 15 so Grisel is instantly winning later, all while setting them back some land drops and hatepieces. Essentially, we both start the game with fewer cards in hand, but I get to start with some lands in play and ideally able to rebuild a bit faster. Another example is Leovold - one of two possible lines against that (without a removal in hand) is just making Emrakul and taking out their DRS, Leovold, and some lands. The other is making Griselbrand to block the Leovold, which could have issues against Diabolic Edict or an untapped DRS once they untap.

Shouldn't you guys be on Exhume over Corpse Dance if you don't have Emrakul?

[Acclimation]

Need haste for Magus, that's why no Exhume.

Don't think, we're jamming a deck that plays both Bargain and Mind's Desire, it's sweet AF.

Heck, we're jamming onion bursts over playing ANT, TES, or standard Reanimator. We're not here because this deck is the best combo deck, we're here because it's a flashier combo that's still very competitive.

Is the Magus list better than any of these options? Probably not, but man is it fun to jam.

[.dk]

What's the typical play pattern with Magus that you guys are planning on? I don't see how it's better than getting Children going.

The way I see it, if you turn 1 with dark rit -> entomb Grisel -> Shallow Grave, draw 14, attack, draw 7, petal, you are at 4 storm. Now if you dark rit -> entomb magus -> shallow grave you still need a blue mana (say, petal) and that gets you to storm 8. Now Magus essentially "draws" you a set of 9 cards you can cast for free. Wouldn't you rather have gotten Children of Korlis, (!)not needing the extra colored mana(!), and drawn 21 more, then kill by assembling Emrakul loop? With 4 Petal 2 Chrome Mox I'm having a hard time missing on Children of Korlis on 21 cards, but you could miss on 2 of those effects.

One of your points was the low life total "required" for Children of Korlis. Well, you are still going to need to go that low to draw cards with Grisel to play the Magus in the first place, right?

Not "needing" to run Emrakul isn't really what I would consider it. If my opponent goes turn 1 Chalice on zero into turn 2 threat, or something that is going to seriously inhibit the combo kill with Griselbrand, such as Revoker when I don't have a removal spell, I actively go for Emrakul because it wipes that permanent, deals them 15 so Grisel is instantly winning later, all while setting them back some land drops and hatepieces. Essentially, we both start the game with fewer cards in hand, but I get to start with some lands in play and ideally able to rebuild a bit faster. Another example is Leovold - one of two possible lines against that (without a removal in hand) is just making Emrakul and taking out their DRS, Leovold, and some lands. The other is making Griselbrand to block the Leovold, which could have issues against Diabolic Edict or an untapped DRS once they untap.

Shouldn't you guys be on Exhume over Corpse Dance if you don't have Emrakul?

Like I said, I'm not convinced this version is any better than regular Tin Fins. It's just... different. And again, it may just be more similar to Esper Tin Fins vs. Burning Wish Tin Fins from a while back. You do get to play LED and Wishes, which open up Empty the Warrens lines and actual answers against decks that traditionally give us trouble.

Also, give the amount of mana rocks, it's very possible you go for Magus first rather than Griselbrand as your storm count is generally higher.

/edit: also what Acclimation said - you want Corpse Dance for haste, since Vengeance doesn't get Magus

[Kobra_D]

I always bring this up when it comes to magus but a consideration is dragon's breath. I saw the card in an oath's deck many moons past and it always seemed cute.

[.dk]

I always bring this up when it comes to magus but a consideration is dragon's breath. I saw the card in an oath's deck many moons past and it always seemed cute.

Ah, that's an interesting one. I had considered reckless charge as you can wish for it and flash it back. This is a cool idea!

[Karhumies]

2. You don't have to run Emrakul - you can actually cast Magus fairly easily post board, and have a decent shot at mind's desiring the next turn. Not graveyard dependent

This is the biggest difference in my eyes: you don't need to run a Monastery Mentor package in the SB because hardcasting Magus in g2 is actually a solid plan B, and we can already do that with MD slots. After all, our opponents are not at all likely to leave creature removal in to capitalize on Magus lack of haste. So we are not even diluting the main plan too much when we sideboard!

The saved space gives us extra SB slots to run Ground Seal (or the new cmc1 artifact going forward). Which has great synergy with Shallow Grave + Corpse Dance animations.


LED + Wish, Emrakul you can run these regardless of Magus IMO. With or without. Of course easier to find wishboard space without Mentor package though.

Children you are running even in the Magus build so you can go for a Children + Grisel "loop" into a ridiculous Magus activation, pass the turn and win. Not too different from Emrakul actually.

[namewithoutname]

Hello guys,

I'm tinkering with TinFins at the moment and try to come up with a reactive SB.

Is

2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Massacre
3 Silence
3 Chain of Vapor
2 Serenity

still 'state of the art' or do you like other reactive Boards better in the straight UWB Version? MD I'm running the 3 Unmask / 4 Therapy split.

Best wishes

[Acclimation]

Hello guys,

I'm tinkering with TinFins at the moment and try to come up with a reactive SB.

Is

2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Massacre
3 Silence
3 Chain of Vapor
2 Serenity

still 'state of the art' or do you like other reactive Boards better in the straight UWB Version? MD I'm running the 3 Unmask / 4 Therapy split.

Best wishes

I don't run Silence any more, as it's not as useful as it was. I personally like Swords to Plowshares, as the targeted removal has been useful vs DRS decks.

[KaiSchafroth]

I don't run Silence any more, as it's not as useful as it was. I personally like Swords to Plowshares, as the targeted removal has been useful vs DRS decks.

I'd second this
I think (not that I'm necessarily saying this is "right") the last reactive board I ran, compared to yours, was StPs for Silence and I think a Flusterstorm for the 3rd CoV

[Acclimation]

I'd second this
I think (not that I'm necessarily saying this is "right") the last reactive board I ran, compared to yours, was StPs for Silence and I think a Flusterstorm for the 3rd CoV

Also a good choice.

FWIW, my default sideboard at the moment is something like this:

4 Mentor
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Surgical
1 Needle
2 Serenity
2 Massacre
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Plains

Usually when I board in Mentor, I take out the Goryos, Children, Emrakul, a couple Griselbrand, and a few Shallow Grave, leaving in some number of Entomb, Shallow Grave, Griselbrand, since you can occasionally get windows to sneak it in there. You also get the benefit of going Entomb for Therapy, and Grave reanimating Mentor to make a bunch of tokens is occasionally relevant. (I think my boarding whenever I want Mentor looks like: + 4 Mentor, +2 Serenity, +2 Surgical, +2 Swords +1 Plains, -3 Goryo -1 Children -1 Emrakul -2 Griselbrand -2 Shallow -1 Entomb -1 Reanimate/Sea/Delta (depending on if I want more lands or not))

Plains is in the SB because there are enough Blood Moon decks around me that I want to be able to get down Serenity and Mentor without relying on Petal, as these Moon decks also like to play Chalice.

I dropped down to one Chain because it feels bad getting your Mentor bounced by a copy of Chain, and the decks that I bring it in for I usually would rather see Mentor or Serenity. Still a good catch-all that I want at least one, but for a full reactive SB, I wouldn't play less than 2.

Serenity is one of those cards that I never leave home without 2, it's always amazing, and rarely do I get locked out on Chalice at 2.

You can always swap the numbers on Surgical and Needle, but I prefer having the free spell with Mentor, and I run into enough GY decks that I like having the option.

Massacre you can always drop if you never run into D&T, but given that it's always a popular deck, I never feel safe leaving it at home. Generally I don't bring in Mentor, as getting into a ground battle with Maverick and D&T is a bad time.

Usually I shave Probe and Ponder when bringing in non-Mentor stuff.

[leegoo]

It's been a long time since I posted, but I had to comment. Saw .dk's list with Magus and had to load it up on Mtgo. +1Magus +1 Dragon Breath, -1 Gris -1 random cut (brutality I think I cut just because I don't have a full set)
Best non-vintage magic I've played in years. Dbreath lets you chain Magi off of each other, which lets you showboat for the lulz... which is the best kind of Magic.

Great work guys. Love it.

[Acclimation]

It's been a long time since I posted, but I had to comment. Saw .dk's list with Magus and had to load it up on Mtgo. +1Magus +1 Dragon Breath, -1 Gris -1 random cut (brutality I think I cut just because I don't have a full set)
Best non-vintage magic I've played in years. Dbreath lets you chain Magi off of each other, which lets you showboat for the lulz... which is the best kind of Magic.

Great work guys. Love it.

.dk and I have been bouncing Magus ideas off each other for the past month, the deck is just too much fun to play, especially if you're a showboatin' SOB.

[.dk]

It's been a long time since I posted, but I had to comment. Saw .dk's list with Magus and had to load it up on Mtgo. +1Magus +1 Dragon Breath, -1 Gris -1 random cut (brutality I think I cut just because I don't have a full set)
Best non-vintage magic I've played in years. Dbreath lets you chain Magi off of each other, which lets you showboat for the lulz... which is the best kind of Magic.

Great work guys. Love it.

daww thanks! We've got some more hotness coming too, I think... so stay tuned! We're definitely degenerates here

And I think those changes you made are good - although I did like having more Griselbrand than Magus, as sometimes Magus is balls when you're reanimating it. Griselbrand is almost always good. :)

[Acclimation]

New hotness:

1 Bayou
4 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
4 Brainstorm
3 Cabal Ritual
2 Collective Brutality
2 Corpse Dance
4 Dark Ritual
2 Mastermind's Acquisition
4 Entomb
4 Griselbrand
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Magus of the Mind
1 Past in Flames
3 Ponder
4 Shallow Grave
3 Thoughtseize

Sideboard:
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Bayou
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Silent Gravestone
1 Massacre
2 Pithing Needle
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Collective Brutality


Ended up going to FNM tonight and played the above list (only the bayous and badlands were their shockland counterparts because I am a poor), and 3-0d versus UR Delver, Burn, and UW stoneblade.

Highlights:
Rd 1 vs UR Delver: 2-0, game one flipped magus for 14 and had enough mana to wish for Emrakul and cast Emrakul, but opponent scooped when I grabbed the Emrakul
Rd 2 vs Burn: store has a stream, so I flipped magus for 14 on camera in g3
Rd 3 vs stoneblade: on stream again, game 1 I bricked on reanimation so I chained rituals into entomb into past in flames, flashed back cantrips to find reanimation for magus x=13. game 3 I beat double flusterstorm+surgical on griselbrand on t3.

Deck is siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick.

[scottpou]

I already purchased 4 Mastermind's Acquisition to replace burning wish. Have also been trying both BW and MA with LED's. There's so many options open now... Still working on 3 different versions. March is coming up quick! STG Worcester

[.dk]

I already purchased 4 Mastermind's Acquisition to replace burning wish. Have also been trying both BW and MA with LED's. There's so many options open now... Still working on 3 different versions. March is coming up quick! STG Worcester

Yeah, you end up making so much mana from LED's and Cabal Rituals that casting Acquisition is not that hard. And... it doesn't exile itself like Burning Wish, so it's very very good with Past in Flames. Super happy Acclimation got to try it out at a real event - mine haven't shown up in the mail yet, so i was forced to play traditional Tin Fins at FNM last night. Went a casual 4-1 after not having played the deck in a couple years. Felt good. Mentor still gets unsuspecting fools... :)

Also, for reference, my current sideboard for Bizarro Stormy (Magus Fins) is:

2 Abrupt Decay
1 Bayou
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Ground Seal
1 Massacre
2 Pithing Needle
1 Show and Tell
1 Silent Gravestone
1 Tendrils of Agony

Ground Seals might want to all be Silent Gravestone - not sure yet as I haven't played live games with it. My thoughts were Cabal Ritual into Mastermind's Acquisition fetches and casts Gravestone, whereas Ground Seal is probably a little better as a card to be boarded in, since it cantrips.

I have no idea wtf Acclimation is doing with an Emrakul in the sideboard. :P

Some main deck differences as well from Acclimation's - I cut Ponders for 4 Gitaxian Probes and have Therapy in place of Thoughtseize. Again, not sure which (if either) are better/correct though. I might just like Gitaxian Probe. That said... my Ponders are signed, and Gitaxian Probes are impossible to get signed so maybe I'll make the switch to his config. :)

[Acclimation]

I like Silent Gravestone a lot. The 1 mana is helpful, and we can easily drop it off a ritual and continue jamming our combo, whereas Ground Seal requires us to wait a turn. Sure, drawing a card is nice, but I think 1 cmc and colorless is much easier and quicker to get down.

I have no idea wtf Acclimation is doing with an Emrakul in the sideboard. :P

It's all about sending a message, and maybe because I didn't have a Show and Tell and needed a 15th SB card. Heck, it lets us win through Leyline if you don't want to wish for bounce to get rid of it, and maybe some other weird corner cases. Other cards I considered: Grapeshot, Children, Aetherflux Reservoir, another Ground Seal, Corpse Dance, Therapy, Probe, Surgical. Really, it could be anything that's useful, and I just chose something flashy, and has weird corner cases. Heck, I could even board it in and play closer to the standard build if I really wanted to.

Some main deck differences as well from Acclimation's - I cut Ponders for 4 Gitaxian Probes and have Therapy in place of Thoughtseize. Again, not sure which (if either) are better/correct though. I might just like Gitaxian Probe. That said... my Ponders are signed, and Gitaxian Probes are impossible to get signed so maybe I'll make the switch to his config. :)

My thought process is that Ponder gives me a better chance to find the missing piece, and I had a couple games where I was spinning my wheels, and in one game I had to tutor PiF to cantrip, and ponder found me the reanimation spell, whereas Probe would have just been sad times. I also feel good about my soul reads, so I'm not too worried about the lack of info, and Thoughtseize does a good enough job. I do prefer Therapy, but it does lose value if I don't have Probe.