Tinfins & Bizarro Stormy & Belcher & DDFT
@acclimation6 on twitter
Back to back t1 kills at SCG STL 2013:
https://youtu.be/kk3crCPsNLg
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
Is the decklist itself hard to read? I have it in list form at the top of section 1, then paragraph form only for the potential changes to the deck.
I like Ice Station Zebra. I’ll change it now that the Tin Fins forum and the great Richard Cheese has annointed the name.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
I still love Doomsday, but I've been playing this list for more than a week with a lot of success. Lab Man main really makes some lines easier. It's similar to how Ice Station Zebra (ISZ) will Living Wish for the Maniac. A key thing to remember (as previously stated by others) is to stop after each griselbrand activation and consider cracking LEDS.
// Creature (6)
4 Griselbrand
1 Children of Korlis
1 Laboratory Maniac
// Instant (12)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
// Sorcery (20)
3 Exhume
1 Unburial Rites
3 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Collective Brutality
2 Unmask
4 Faithless Looting
4 Burning Wish
// Artifact (8)
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
// Land (14)
3 Badlands
2 Swamp
1 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
// Sideboard
SB: 3 Silent Gravestone
SB: 1 Exhume
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 2 Empty the Warrens (I want more than 1, but 3 takes up too many spots)
SB: 1 By Force
SB: 1 Reverent Silence
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Stronghold Gambit
SB: 4 Meta Dependent
... I stayed up way too late again tonight with beverages and cockatrice...
Sideboard with Silent Gravestone has usually been, -1 Unburial Rites and then if playing against Combo -2 Collective Brutality, if fair/creatures -2 Unmask, and if counters -2 LED as a very rough guide.
Last edited by scottpou; 06-06-2018 at 03:31 PM.
I have thought about this several times, including in this week's games. However, I have rarely needed a land to cast either of these. The first LED gets BBB (Entomb + Shallow/Exhume for Children). Or you can activate GBees, sac another LED for WWW if needed or just a Petal for W to cast Children out of hand. I have been wastelanded twice in more than one match, and I really like having the 3 badlands over the 2 for that reason. I also believe strongly in the 2 basics over 1. I have just setup MTGO and am building up my tix so continue accumulating TinFins. I hope to be posting vids and results soon.
Tinfins & Bizarro Stormy & Belcher & DDFT
@acclimation6 on twitter
Back to back t1 kills at SCG STL 2013:
https://youtu.be/kk3crCPsNLg
Going to a shop tomorrow night that I heard plays some legacy on Tuesdays. I've never been there for Legacy, but I figure its worth checking out. I'm probably going to go with the reactive board. I'm back up to 4 Silent Gravestones after more testing.
4 Griselbrand
1 Children of Korlis
1 Laboratory Maniac
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
3 Exhume
1 Unburial Rites
3 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Collective Brutality
2 Unmask
4 Faithless Looting
4 Burning Wish
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
3 Badlands
2 Swamp
1 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
// Sideboard
4 Silent Gravestone
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Empty the Warrens
1 Exhume
1 By Force
1 Reverent Silence
1 Massacre
1 Stronghold Gambit
1 Innocent Blood
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Dreadbore
You know what. Screw it! This is my first time at this shop. I'm going to play Doom. What better way to introduce myself to a new player group? You only get one chance for a first impression. Also, it's been that kind of day at work where I just want to maximize fun and not win percentage. I will be taking notes to post later.
Changes are:
//MAIN (3)
-2 Collective Brutality / +2 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Badlands / +1 Gemstone Mine
//SIDE (7)
-4 Silent Gravestone / +4 Doomsday
-1 Innocent Blood / +1 Act on Impulse
-1 Dreadbore / +1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
-1 Toxic Deluge / +1 Shelldock Isle
If anyone is from the shop and I wrote something wrong or misspell anyone's name please let me know! This was a friendly, non-sanctioned, proxy allowed tournament for store credit as prize with an entry fee of $5. Tonight's recap of Burning Doom Fins:
Round 1 vs DD&T (Dillon):
He called the deck DD&T. Turns out he's trimmed D&T and added hexmages, dark depths, and thespian's stage. It was a very interesting brew, and I would like to see the full decklist sometime.
Game 1: I lose the roll and he goes basic Plains pass. I go badlands, faithless, pitch land and grisel, lotus petal, ritual, shallow grave. I then start storm counting by activating griselbrand. I forgot to use my 1 mana to entomb to grab a children, atttack, THEN start storming. I realize this, children to gain some life, THEN forget to attack, but announced second main because we were chit chatting. I want to be stickler to myself so I remember even though he kindly offers to allow the attack, but I deny. So I unmask myself to pitch a gris and exhume it. All legendary rule to go into affect and pass the turn. I win a turn later, but I started tonight off with a royal F*&$ up. (WIN)
Game 2: I have a decent DD hand with some protection so I keep. He goes, cavern naming humans, pithing needle griselbrand. I go land and pass. He goes land, rest in peace, pass. My second turn I decide I'm going to do DD and make a pass the turn pile because I figure that's most of his hate and the reason he kept the hand. He has to read Doomsday as he's never seen someone actually play it. I went with a Shelldock, Emmy, Gemstone, Labman, Probe pile because I figure 2 outs are better than 1. He play Rish Port and Mother of Ruins before passing is back to me. Oh great I'm thinking. I land the Shelldock and he has to read it. I pass it back to him, and he taps out and plays Gideon of the Trials, goes 0 and makes an emblem. I have NEVER seen this emblem played before and am worried. I get to my turn, play gemstone, cast Emmy. Take my second turn, cast Labman and attack with Emmy. He only has 6 permanents so they all go. I didn't realize the emblem needed the gideon to stay in play to be affective, but I win anyway. Afterword we were talking, and he had containment priest, but chose the RiP over it. I don't think it mattered, but it could have. (WIN)
(1-0) (2-0)
Round 2 vs Bu Reanimator (Oliver):
Game 1: I win the dice roll! I go turn 1, faithless, ditch grisel, petal, ritual, shallow grave, led sac after 1st activation, entomb children, go for the labman kill, and he scoops. (WIN)
Game 2: I figure he's on some sort of U deck. He acknowledges every action with "sure" and is actually paying attention to triggers and stack. So I have money on flusterstorms. I side out -2 Grisel, -2 LED, -1 Unburial Rites, -1 Exhume and bring in the 6 DD package. I have a good first turn doomsday hand with an entomb backup so I keep. He goes polluted, pass. I go fetch, badlands, lotus petal (for daze), dark ritual with land, doomsday. He fluster storms the DD. He plays another land and pass. Next turn I draw a Shallow so I play a land and petal and try to jam it. He surgicals the griselbrand after the entomb. He passes his turn with a land drop. Then I Unmask him on my turn taking his only creature, griselbrand, because he had Show and Tell and I had BWin hand. He gets to his turn and does Show and tell. I show the Children in, and he shows Iona in naming black. I take two hits from Iona, sac Children after the 2nd hit, and then on my turn go, petal, petal, LED, Burning Wish. He brainstorms and is able to find a Force of Will to counter it before I Empty to race him. GG (LOSS)
Game 3: I mull to 6 and see a possible turn 1 with a backup plan, good enough! Turn 1 I thoughtseize him, see a daze, brain storm, and entomb. I take away entomb. Second turn, I go into Dark Ritual, Entomb, Shallowv with an extra Nana available. He FoWs the Shallow after brainstorming. After landing my third land drop, I go for DD straight up and get countered again by fluster. He then reanimates a Griselbrand on his turn after using careful study and beats me down with no activations. I go for a life-gain Tendrils or an aggro Empty the Warrens two turns later with petal, led, dark ritual, and burning wish only to get countered again. Oliver drew a lot of hate and did blindly (he informed me after), but it was still a well fought match that definitely flicked a switch in my competitive MtG mind. I really enjoyed this match and can't wait for a rematch! (LOSS)
(1-1, 3-2)
Round 3 vs Elves (John):
Game 1: I lose the roll, and he mentions that he knows what I'm on. He's relatively new to legacy, but he is trying to make this HIS legacy deck. I don't have a great hand (2x griselbrand), but I had therapy, umask, and etomb. I'll take it good enough (WRONG). He goes forest, wirewood symbiote, so I know he's on elves. I go fetch, swamp, therapy naming elvish visionary, and I HIT! I also see a hand of lands and 2x natural order as well. I pass back, he plays another forest and DRS, awesome. We pass back and forth for at least 3 turns if not more, and I decide to trigger both my fetches on his end step because I'm holding 3x griselbrand and 1x entomb. I also have a Dark Ritual in hand and 4 lands in play. I couldn't find a land or anything useful in 3 more turns to cast a grisel the easy nor hard way. He finally Natural Orders into a crater hoof when I was at 11 for 12 damage. It is probably minor, but I should have never cracked the fetches. He didn't have the mana via DRS without me cracking. (LOSS)
Game 2: Even though I'm on the play, he knows what I'm on and is looking at a lot of sideboard cards. I decide to shuffle in the DD Package and have some fun. I have not a great hand, but John is super nice and we were talking about Elves a lot during side boarding. In my play group, we have a collaborative Elves deck, and I am the Elves player. So, I understand his deck a lot, and he was surprised. I admitted to him that I don't care about winning tonight, I just want to have fun. So with that, I pick up my cards and say F-it, looks good! I keep and go turn 1, land, Dark Ritual, Doomsday. I make another Shelldock, Emmy, Gemstone, Labman, Probe, pass the turn pile. He looks through my deck very meticulous and is perplexed when he sees 4 LEDS still in the now exiled deck. He plays a land and passes. I then play shelldock with emmy and pass. He then plays sorcerous spyglass and names Shelldock. I take my turn, cast faithless to pick up the remaining lab man and probe, ditch 2 cards. play gemstone, tap all 3 lands for mana, cast labman, and -2 life for probe, and onto game #3. (WIN)
Game 3: He looks at his hand and says, guess I have to keep it. I look down and it's bad. I mulligan to 6 and see land, petal, led, Burning wish. I remind him that I'm here to have a good time and fun because my work week has sucked so far, and I keep. He goes turn one bayou, nettle. I go land, petal, led, BW, crack LED, cast DD. We're here to go for it tonight! I start making a double pass the turn Act on Impulse pile, but I get scared off and take out the Emmy & Lab man pile instead. (SPOILER ALERT: I should of AoI). I make my pile and eventually lose to an army hit off glimpse and he blind draws the Craterhoof he needed in order to win and beat me by a turn. I would have won if I had AoI piled instead of Emmy & LabManiac. However, I was here to have fun and John is a really good guy, and I wanted to have some interaction and redundancy against his board. (LOSS)
p.s. John If you're reading this, I wasn't joking and my play group has elves built no proxies. So if you want to borrow it next week, let me know and I'll bring it! (PM ME!)
(1-2, 4-4)
Props: The shop (X9 Games), players, and conversations. A blind therapy hitting felt great! Still very glad to have 1, but I really want those 3 thoughtseize to compliment it.
Slops: My rusty ass play and uneasy nerves. I need to mulligan more aggressively for the T1/2. I have to keep reminding myself that you can still win first turn with only 4 cards in hand.
Thoughts: I went 1-2 and made a LOT of mistakes. I haven't played in person since the SCG Worcester Open where I went with friends and was much more relaxed (Beer helps too). I didn't start to calm down until the 3rd game of the 3rd round. However, everyone at the shop was awesome and a genuine human. Once everyone knew what deck I was playing, they all opened up and were very friendly. Turns out my 2nd round opponent, Oliver, used to be a TinFins player and is now on his BU Reanimator. I find it humorous because I did the exact opposite. Playing DD for fun was definitely the correct move tonight! Got a lot of questions and compliments on the build. I had an out against every type of hate I saw, and boy did I see a lot. I think the Silent Gravestone build is better right now, but DD was super enjoyable for a friendly. Honestly, I wouldn't change the main at all for the DD transform. I really, really wanted an Innocent Blood in the sideboard though. So, I will probably swap out an Empty for it. In my opinion, I let the deck down and not the other way around. I misplayed a lot, but I the deck gave me options in every situation. They might not have been the ideal out, but I did have options. I had so much fun tonight, and I am definitely going back next week with Silent! I already warned everyone. As long as I don't end up like Marco at this shop, I'll be happy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8bDtZTIdcM
Last edited by scottpou; 06-20-2018 at 08:21 AM.
I think this was one of my biggest gripes with the Shelldock piles, is that they take so long to get going that you risk losing if they have a clock. I had a Doomsday player make a t1 Shelldock pile against me a few weeks ago (when I was on Bizarro) and I was able to use my 2 extra turns before he could swing with Emrakul to draw the redundant reanimation to beat his t1 Tormod's Crypt. I think against decks that have a fast clock, doing this pile is probably a bad choice.
Otherwise, good report. It's always a bit nerve wracking taking a complex deck to a new store, so props to you for enjoying yourself even if you made mistakes.
Tinfins & Bizarro Stormy & Belcher & DDFT
@acclimation6 on twitter
Back to back t1 kills at SCG STL 2013:
https://youtu.be/kk3crCPsNLg
5th in a local 8-man last sunday with Ice Station Zebra.
R1 Grixis Delver 0-2
G1 Kept a t2 marit lage hand and he went probe, wasteland (on urborg) and then a quick gurmag angler.
G2 got 2 silent gravestone ts, hexmage, unmask. TSed a DRS because I wasn't really thinking and kind of wanted to hide the fact that I wasn't afraid of them, but I gave him enough time to drop the angler so that's all on me.
R2 Maverickish (i think lingering souls instead of thalia) 2-0
G1 he drops a DD on 2, I drop one on 2 and hexmage it, gg
G2 I get to combo off sweetly on t2. I looped Children and he asked if I had it. I narrated the line and he picked up.
R3 UB Reanimator 1-2
G1 T1, he concedes to a safety TS in the middle of my combo
G2 I keep a hand with all acceleration and a living wish. I'm pondering whether to HC grisby but then just draw into shallow grave. I play a land but not my petals or ritual, then cry internally when he dazes my living wish. Been too long since I've played against UB.
G3 I kept a slower hand and he got grisby a turn ahead of me, then had a daze for my exhume and a force for my shallow grave.
Sad to not cash but happy the new player (r3 opp) did cash; hopefully he'll come back in the future.
First.
Not like Shaman was our absolute biggest enemy, but how does our Griselfather fair without his StankProbe?
We benefit from Probe in a major way, and unlike BR Reanimator, we rely on a full opening grip of 7 without reducing it through free information gatherers like Unmask.
To keep the legacy (har) of speedy openers, I feel Cabal Therapy gets stronger, even without Probe. Is Unmask going to become the necessary include?
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Whack lists currently playing:
Rector Nic Fit
Bizarro Stormy
Rest In Pieces
I’m unsure, part of the reason I’ve been on TinFins is the believe of many that DRS was an effective answer to graveyard strategies. Without several counters, or two active DRS’s, or a fast clock as Delver etc, or plentiful and good SB GY hate, DRS was very weak. I’ve always been on 5-7 GY cards in T1 and fear we might be seeing 3-5 good GY cards in Legacy for a while.
Probe… slows us down but I’m overjoyed to see that card go; even if it is the final nail in DD’s coffin. Easy mode at no cost, terrible design. I’ll be turning to Careful Study initially, and might look again at Chrome Mox to help the speed.
I think these changes will be good overall (but neither was necessary).
I never really liked probes. I did well with this list years ago. You try to push on discard.
If I still owned cards i'd probably play something similar to these
https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13929&d=282428&f=LE
https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12857&d=274669&f=LE
or dredge
i realize the technology in these is years old so ignore them if you want. i just never liked probe tbh. also no top obviously, and maybe no mentor since no top == bad time. but i haven't touched this deck in years/ don't play anymore
Probe's a crutch, I'd start by adding some more discard spells and maybe another cantrip and see how it shakes out. For a more traditional list, this is what I would play tomorrow if I were to hand the deck to someone:
1x Island
4x Marsh Flats
4x Polluted Delta
1x Scrubland
1x Swamp
1x Tundra
3x Underground Sea
1x Children of Korlis
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3x Griselbrand
4x Brainstorm
4x Dark Ritual
4x Entomb
3x Goryo's Vengeance
1x Lim-Dul's Vault
4x Shallow Grave
1x Cabal Therapy
1x Collective Brutality
4x Ponder
2x Reanimate
4x Thoughtseize
3x Unmask
1x Chrome Mox
4x Lotus Petal
Sideboard
2x Chain of Vapor
2x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Massacre
2x Pithing Needle
2x Serenity
2x Surgical Extraction
3x Swords to Plowshares
Tinfins & Bizarro Stormy & Belcher & DDFT
@acclimation6 on twitter
Back to back t1 kills at SCG STL 2013:
https://youtu.be/kk3crCPsNLg
Could easily go up to 8 discard spells: 4 Unmask, 4 Thoughtseize, and supplement the loss of Probe with 1-2 Lim-Dul's Vault.
Maybe this:
4 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul
1 Children of Korlis
4 Shallow Grave
3 Goryo's Vengeance
2 Reanimate
4 Entomb
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Lim Dul's Vault
4 Thoughtseize
4 Unmask
1 Collective Brutality
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