Creatures (4)
1 Children of Korlis
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Griselbrand
Lands (14)
1 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
Spells (43)
1 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
3 Goryo's Vengeance
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Shallow Grave
1 Silence
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
1 Reanimate
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Thoughtseize
Sideboard
2 Pithing Needle
2 Serenity
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Echoing Truth
2 Pull from Eternity
3 Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
I copied Koby's BOM list for the main deck. I did almost no testing for the event, so I decided to stick with the 61 card list. I wanted Probes and Lands more often then not, and I ended up mulliganing once all day- in the top 8 matches.
I didn't splash green since I felt as though the manabase was stretched pretty far, I remember having awkward moments at Milwaukee where I needed either a G or a W or a U, but had one of the other colors instead. Reverent Silence was clutch that day though, but I played against 0 Miracles then and ended up not wanting a G splash at STL.
I ran 2 Pull From Eternity over Massacre since I expected a low number of White hate bear decks. As seen in one of my rounds, I ran into one of these decks, but ended up not needing Massacre. I brought in the Pulls multiple times, but never ended up casting them, even seeing it once or twice. Unsure of how useful it is in practice, but I like it in theory.
The 2 Echoing Truth needed to be Chain of Vapor, but I couldn't find any extras.
The Silences were the champs of my sideboard, I brought them in in nearly every match.
I never used Surgical Extraction in STL, but used it a LOT in Milwaukee. I saw 2 Dredge decks (one being a friend) and heard that somebody else was playing Tinfins. Other than that, GY strategies seemed to be missing, I chalk that up to the hype EsperDeathblade (esper crapblade) was receiving.
I ran into the same situation with Pithing Needle that I did with Surgical- used it a lot in one event, but never cast it during this event. I do like turning off Deathrite Shamans and Sneak Attacks though, so I would stick with running at least 2.
I liked having the Serenity slots, and probably should have brought them in during my top 8 match, but otherwise saw no Chalice and Miracle decks at all (outside of another friend who brought Miracles), and I was walking around the tables since most of my matches were done in under 20 min.
As for mainboard stuff, despite falling in love with Lim-Dul's Vault in Milwaukee, I used it once at STL. It ended up being Chrome Mox fodder more often than not. I think this card is great in games where you are behind, but I was winning within the first 3 turns in the majority of my games, so I felt like the slot wasn't utilized to its maximum potential.
One of the bigger things I noticed was how I was digging for either Rituals or Lotus Petals during my combo turns, I wouldn't mind testing a single Mox Diamond or a second Chrome Mox to help get more free mana.
As for Tendrils, I won a few games off of the back of it (those awkward games where I can't find mana or an entomb to bin Emrakul before the attack step and need to swing with Griselbrand to gain life to draw more), especially a few g1s, but Emrakul+Griselbrand attacks is where I found most of my kills. I think Tendrils should stay in the main board.
14 lands felt correct. I mulliganed once in the whole event, and never had an issue finding at least 2 lands early on. There were a few games in which I drew all of the lands instead of any gas, but considering how lucky I was all day with t1 kills, I'll take a few sad games.
I also felt that 1 Children of Korlis was correct. It's only good when we are comboing off, and the few times I drew it over any other spell were sad times. Loved seeing it mid combo though.
If I were to play the deck in an event right now, I would stick with the same mainboard, and probably have this as my starting point for my side:
3 Silence
2 Pithing Needle
3 Chain of Vapor
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Serenity
2 Flex Slots
Not sure what I'd run for those last slots, Massacre is probably the best choice since Thalia decks are a pain if we don't win the game in those first 2 turns. I wish I could have cast Pull just to see if it was worth it, but I feel as though it's a card that is only good when we are behind or blunder into hate.
Good analysis. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!Originally Posted by Acclimation
Only having 5 IMSs has always been a little low (we started with 8!), but I've felt it was justified by making comboing more consistent. My justification has been that I've almost never lost once I've drawn 7 with Griselbrand, so it's ok to be 10% instead of 5% to brick on IMSs (arbitrary number warning).
I know it's a weird thing to keep track of if you're not explicitly trying to, but do you remember if you could have gone infinite after attacking? If there wasn't that angle of course I would never cut Tendrils, but since I feel pretty safe in saying that 95% of the time we're going off (undisrupted) it's possible to go infinite, I feel like Tendrils is not a necessary combo piece.
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Unsure on the infinite. I stopped every time I had the kill, so I never pushed the matter. The only time I "show off" is when I'm messing around with friends or just at my card shop. The games I won with Tendrils were the games that I couldn't win via my attack step, usually due to not having the pieces necessary to get Emrakul out on my first main phase. I felt that most of these were due to never finding an IMS more often than not finding an Entomb or Reanimation spell.
Fair enough, I'm usually short on the IMS as well. The 6th IMS definitely isn't terrible, but doesn't generally seem worth it to me.
So I guess it's "showing off" if Tendrils is still in your deck, but I play without a Tendrils in the deck more than half the time postboard. Generally hardcasting Emrakul is a pretty good way to get another attack step...
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
Has a sideboard like this ever been suggested?
3x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Force of Will
1x Griselbrand
3x Misdirection
4x Show and Tell
We've played all sorts of sideboards. At SCG Atlanta I played 4 S&T and the 4th Griselbrand in the board and it was pretty awful. Extra Emrakuls are just bad unless you also add Sneak Attack, but then your entire board is devoted to a transformation that doesn't actually fix the problems.
Counterspells are just bad in the deck regardless. There aren't enough U cards we can afford pitching, and we need to be proactive, not reactive.
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
Yeah we've done pretty similar things in the past, but it's clunky at best, and most of the hate that comes in against you is still live. Most importantly, Karakas becomes insane and Surgical/Extirpate hitting Show and Tell can still ruin your day. If you were going to go that route, I think I'd almost go with something harder to deal with like Inkwell Leviathan, but in the current meta, half the time you're just going to be staring down another Emrakul or Omniscience or something across the table and lose before you ever get an attack.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
Gonna be playing some Tin Fins this weekend, my list is very similar to the one just posted except I run pact of negation instead of LDV. I still believe pact can have a spot in the deck being a completely free counter since we usually win the turn we go off anyways. I'll make sure to keep track of my games and give a review.
Dude, it's been tried at least 2 times before by multiple players and it's still bad. Silence and discard are better.
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
Silence is where it's at. It can't be Misdirected, you don't lose the game if you happen to fizzle, and if it resolves, you can combo without worrying about your opponent doing anything else.
Silence also has the benefit of of disrupting your opponent's turn, if you need to stall them, a Silence on their upkeep or during their combo will stop them harder than Pact will.
If you need to run more disruption/protection, Silence is what you want to add, not any flavor of Counterspell.
Even then, LDV is a great card, even if I didn't cast it often, since it digs deep and can find you exactly what you need.
I can't agree enough. Silence stops almost all flavors of stack based hate (faerie macabre is the only one I can think of that it doesn't stop), and it stops all of them if it resolves. Silence is totally the bees knees in this deck
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That's what Abeyance is for. :p
We've toyed with it before, but thatmakes a whole world of difference.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
Correct - if Abeyance didn't cantrip and costWe've toyed with it before, but that
Find me on Twitter: @beanaman
Grats on the top 8 Acclimation, the next morning Joey Pasco was saying there was a feature match with Tin Fin's & all the opponent did the whole match was cast preordain between 2 games, was lmao. I have to watch that feature match now that I am home & have time. I went up against Reanimator once myself, but it was traditional. Apparently there was a few Tin Fins decks in the room according to the different people I talked to.
Primary legacy deck High Tide primer
Thanks! I'm pretty sure my buddy and I actually talked to you during the middle of the day about High Tide decks and about how many were being represented at the event.
On topic, Abeyance is real neat, but that
Yea, that's a big deal. While the cantrip is nice, it's the effect that's the more important part. On the other hand... Abeyance was printed in Korean... nevermind. :POn topic, Abeyance is real neat, but that
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It also shuts off Maze and Karakas, and SDT. One thing to note though is that it only stops instants/sorceries, so it's not as much of a time walk, and won't stop Venser or Clique. I may test it again just for the hell of it, but I'm pretty sure it's always going to end up being not quite as good.Correct - if Abeyance didn't cantrip and cost
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
Someone posted asking about when to go for the Griselbrand + Emrakul kill or go for the Storm kill. Saw this corner case in the MTGS DnT thread and figured it could be insightful:
Game 1 was the craziest game of Magic I've ever played. He drew 28 cards off of Griselbrand, gained 20-some life off the Children of Korlis combo, attacked and hit me for 15 (and annhilator) with Emrakul...and I still somehow won. Karakas was huge. I actually was at 15 life when Emrakul hit me, but I had 2 counters on Jitte. Karakas was my only permanent left. I eventually got 2 more lands and played a Flickerwisp which carried me home.
Generally you go for storm if you can't get there through attacks (see example above) or just don't find the pieces and need 7 more cards.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
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